10 ms·

Global EV Charging Points with Open Charge Map

145 points by marklit 2y ago

nicoboo 2y ago
Really precise blog post with useful case, as usual with the author. Love his writing, findings and technical details.
- xur17 2y ago
  My only feedback was that he should really really consider linking the text `Open Charge Map` to the website.
negative_zero 2y ago
Why would I use this over PlugShare?
- krzyk 2y ago
  Or instead of OSM.
  - marklit 2y ago
    OSM doesn't have the same metadata as this project.
- teractiveodular 2y ago
  Because Plugshare is closed source, locked down and a bizarre cesspool of uncurated garbage with zealously curated but misleading or straight up wrong information. For example, in Australia, the largest supercharger networks are Tesla and Evie. For reasons I won't even pretend to understand, Plugshare refuses to allow either name in their labels, so if a town has both, they're called "Town (1)" and "Town (2)" at random. Not only does this make searching a pain, but people just select whichever pin happens to be on top and then submit their charging reports for the wrong charger. Gar! Typical example: "Oliver's Gundagai (1)" https://www.plugshare.com/location/205861 https://www.plugshare.com/location/205861 (Chargefox) "Oliver's Gundagai (2)" https://www.plugshare.com/location/76887 https://www.plugshare.com/location/76887 (Tesla)
  - promoterr 2y ago
    [dead]
  - bojan 2y ago
    Weird, this problem doesn't exist in Europe. I found Plugshare to be more reliable and informative than ABRP, especially in the areas where charger stations aren't that common.
- mft_ 2y ago
  IME, Plugshare is of variable value. Good in Germany; terrible in Mallorca, for example.
  - promoterr 2y ago
    [dead]
- jwr 2y ago
  PlugShare doesn't list all stations, for one.
  - martini333 2y ago
    Neither does this; obviously.
  - kccqzy 2y ago
    And it's easy to add a new station to PlugShare. I've done that before.
- oezi 2y ago
  Why would I use PlugShare over other apps on which I can also charge?
- JaggedJax 2y ago
  Being truly open is a huge plus for OCM. Checking a few locations in both I found that PlugShare had locations properly listed as under maintenance while OCM listed them as open, so at least near me the Plugshare data seems more accurate. I also really appreciate the images and comments people have posted in Plugshare to help find out of the way stations or stations that might not be reliable. If OSM took off it would get there, but none of the stations I checked had any comments or images. I'm not a big fan of the OCM station formatting. There's a bunch of useless information above the fold and a bunch of useful information below the fold. OCM doesn't appear to have any pricing information while PlugShare at least tells me if the station has a charge and if the parking itself has a charge. I hope that open services like this can get station data from more direct sources for more accurate information, but the data isn't quite there yet for me to want to use it when I'm actively looking for a station.
- _ea1k 2y ago
  Plugshare is owned by evgo. It'd be nice to have a fully independent entity owning the data and sharing it freely.
- tas50 2y ago
  This was my immediate question. Looking at this data in my city it reports a bunch of chargers that are either 100% gone or have been broken for a year. PlugShare reports those all correctly. I'd have a pretty bad time trying to charge around here (metro population of 2.5 million) if I relied on this dataset.
- luuurker 2y ago
  In London (UK), OCM seems to have more chargers and more accurate data than PlugShare. Zap Map is probably the best option though, but even them are missing some slow chargers.
oefrha 2y ago
Actual site is here: https://openchargemap.org/site https://openchargemap.org/site Site is quite janky on my M1 iPad Pro 12.9’’, and honestly, using a 3D globe view for this feels like form over function.
- beeboobaa3 2y ago
  seems they just used mapbox defaults. if your device can't run mapbox something is wrong with your device, it's a common and well supported library.
  - oefrha 2y ago
    Example 3D globe maps on Mapbox website run very smoothly, so it’s not that.
    - nine_k 2y ago
      Take a perfectly smooth animation, add a fast-looking synchronous function call in the animation loop, get some jank. A modern GPU, even integrated into a CPU as usual on laptops, is ridiculously fast for the task of showing a globe, something like 100k triangles at worst. But you need to feed it on time.
- mft_ 2y ago
  Maybe also browser dependent? Constantly janky on Firefox/Windows/8840HS laptop; janky on Chrome while loading new locations but then mostly very smooth.
- mikael-gramont 2y ago
  FYI I'm on a 2015 MBP and Firefox is doing ok here, so I suspect this is a perf problem with Safari.
- arethuza 2y ago
  The service seems to believe there are multiple charging sites in the middle of the North Sea - which seems slightly unlikely...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Aachen 2y ago
I'm surprised the various charging maps aren't simply using OpenStreetMap. It has a large basis of charging points and anyone is free to use the data or contribute, so integrating is pretty easy. Instead, we now need to use various third-party alternatives and the market is quite fragmented. I noticed a family member with an EV needs to check two or three different systems and they'll all show different results of what chargers are near Of course, live (charging) status will need to be fetched from the operator, but that can be a URL field just like we have website and menu URL tags for restaurants
- carstenhag 2y ago
  OpenStreetMap gives you static data. But when charging, you almost always need dynamic data (current station availability, availability forecast, charging prices...) even in the most basic use cases. And to get dynamic data you can't just fetch it from one operator. My employer's charging network (Digital Charging Solutions) has about 1450 technical charge point operators (those are the brands you see on the stations). Even just looking at the commercial charge point operators (those are less) you'd have to connect to hundreds. Ok, there are also roaming platforms that interconnect everything. But they exist to connect, so they are never going to give you this valuable data for free. And you'd still have to implement about a dozen API connections to get reliable status data for only Europe... Edit: AMA about charging stuff :) I don't handle the data connections etc but I know a bit
  - donalhunt 2y ago
    Do you foresee consolidation occuring for access to the data? Having to install 10s of apps / consult multiple sources for charging prices (not all chargers present a price) is painful.
    - carstenhag 2y ago
      I do see consolidation happening, but it doesn't have to do with data. Right now there are many EMP (eMobility Provider) in Europe, trying to get a piece of the cake. Scale of economics will make the big ones have an edge over the small ones, eventually only a few big ones will likely survive. Two examples: - If an EMP connects directly to a CPO (Charge Point Operator) they can avoid roaming platform fees, but it requires individual integration. This is only worth for very large CPO like Ionity. - An EMP has to sanitize and improve the raw chargepoint data they get from providers. Thousands of times CPOs have set their chargepoints to LatLng 0,0; have messed up lng and lat; have put their stations to Somalia's beach.
jmdots 2y ago
Someone needs to build convenience stores attached to charging stations. The money is in the store / lounge.
- ilikecakeandpie 2y ago
  They're starting to, I've seen quite a few
- 1970-01-01 2y ago
  And tell us exactly where these are, their hours of operation, what they sell, and the best way to get there from here. A dedicated EV mapping team should have been something cooking at Google a decade ago. For some reason, they just aren't interested (or are now too stupid to realize) this massive, ripe business opportunity.
  - jmdots 2y ago
    Well, for one, charging duration isn’t the same as filling a gas tank, so the store needs to be more coffee shop / lounge than convenience store, although those items must be available, too. It really should have an upscale vibe because electric cars are purchased more by higher income families. Spaces for telecommuting should be involved. Think of it as a truck stop but for luxury electric cars. No showers, but cubicles are there. Can I get ycombinator approved for this idea? :) /half sarcasm
- bojan 2y ago
  In Hungary, Czechia and Slovakia they put major chargers next to large malls, so you have all the convenience of a mall while the car is changing.
  - jmdots 2y ago
    Yes, that makes sense, of course, but the point is that there is a business opportunity in the vast wide open world of the US for electric charging to not just be a sidecar to established businesses but rather a destination unto itself. Consider how much money McDonalds has made from people needing a restroom over the years.
beAbU 2y ago
Here in Ireland, I noticed that most of the "main" network public chargers are on Google Maps now, and for some of them they even show the list of connector options, number of points, and whether they are currently in use or not. They don't have costs, but I can't imagine it being that long before that information is also included. ESB, which is the largest (and cheapest) network is the most information complete. Combine this with Google Maps' existing rate + review features, ability to upload pictures and all that, I can see how this will very quickly make other 3rd party services like plugshare or similar superfluous. On a recent 800km road trip I just used Google Maps to find charging points along my route that was already planned on there. I tried using other services like ABRP or EVNavigation and found all of them pretty lacking. Ireland is probably not representative of the rest of the world. It's very small, so with my Kona EV and it's 450km range, I can basically go anywhere with minimal stops for charging. Most of the bigger towns have at least one 50kw charger, and they are rolling out 100/200kw chargers at these locations now as well. There just is no need to have a detailed route planned out with battery SOC estimates and consumption and all that, and with charge points on Google Maps I feel we are very close to ICE convenience. I just drive, and when I'm a little low on charge I search on GMaps for a charger location, drive there, plug in, empty my bladder, get a snack, and then continue on my trip again. The vast majority of my charging takes place at home though, so the above only applies when I am travelling further than 200km from home. Home charging provides access to more than 60% of the country I feel.
- fiftyfifty 2y ago
  This pretty much reflects what we get in the US as well. Obviously with the size of the US we have a ways to go before we get to ICE level of coverage but it has gotten much better the last 2-3 years. The only thing Google maps lacks over say the Tesla app is being able to see how many chargers are available at a station. I’ve changed my trip a little bit a few times when it’s clear one station is a lot busier than another one that might be 20 miles down the road.
  - dheera 2y ago
    I once arrived at a Tesla supercharger that was full and there were Teslas lining up, but there were 4 CCS high speed DC chargers right next to them and not a single one was taken. Thankfully I had the adapter and just used one of them. Those connectors are a fucking bear to plug in though, and you usually have to try 3 times to get the charger-vehicle-payment dance to work.
DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
China is missing from this map, even though it has the most charging infrastructure of any country. Here's the best map I could find in a few minutes for China (warning - very resource-intensive website): https://chargermap.nio.com/pe/h5/static/chargermap#/ https://chargermap.nio.com/pe/h5/static/chargermap#/. Surprisingly, the above map is just charging infrastructure from one company. There is a lot of infrastructure from Tesla and other companies as well.
- dataviz1000 2y ago
  I’m visiting Chiang Mai Thailand and China is flooding the roads with cheap EVs, BYD, Hozon. There is charging infrastructure everywhere. I don’t know how the United States is going to compete.
  - mikestew 2y ago
    So far it would seem that the U. S. is tackling that competition with tariffs. OTOH, I’m not sure what it would take to get a (for example) BYD to pass crash testing, and if it would still be price-competitive.
    - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
      BYD cars already get top crash ratings in European tests. For example: https://youtu.be/7ThTci70350?si=8-gTWRr1_jTdZam0 https://youtu.be/7ThTci70350?si=8-gTWRr1_jTdZam0.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > BYD cars already get top crash ratings in European tests I see it coming up in the top 10 for 2023, but not 2024 [1]. Just not released yet? [1] https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/electric-vehicles/#?selectedMake=0&selectedMakeName=Select%20a%20make&selectedModel=0&selectedStar=&includeFullSafetyPackage=true&includeStandardSafetyPackage=true&selectedModelName=All&selectedProtocols=51097,49446&selectedClasses=1202,1199,1201,1196,1205,1203,1198,1179,40250,1197,1204,1180,34736,44997&allClasses=true&allProtocols=false&allDriverAssistanceTechnologies=false&selectedDriverAssistanceTechnologies=&thirdRowFitment=false https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/electric-vehicle...
bilsbie 2y ago
GOOD Point by my wife. Why wouldn’t every business want to put in some chargers to attract affluent customers with 30+ minutes to kill.
- zelos 2y ago
  Is the demand there? Affluent customers probably have chargers at home, so unless it's a 200+ mile round trip to visit the business, probably don't have much need to charge.
  - parineum 2y ago
    It's chicken and egg at this point. Having an EV requires charging at home. People that can't charge at home don't buy an EV. People that would charge in a parking lot don't have an EV. Public charging has really stagnated in the last 5 years.
    - bilsbie 2y ago
      Even just for travelers though. If you’re within 30 minutes of a highway exit and there area isn’t well covered by other chargers it seems like it would be a good investment. If it were me I’d even try to sell them washer fluid and other road supplies.
    - sn 2y ago
      Me and my partner exclusively charge at work.
    - ac29 2y ago
      I think being able to charge at home is almost a requirement but definitely not necessary in some places. I charge at home maybe twice a month, and there are dozens of chargers within a few minute walk of where I live. Many retail areas have chargers too, so its easy to get a few kwh of charge on a short trip to get groceries or something. I think there are also a significant number of EV owners who almost exclusively use public DC fast charging. If there are enough fast chargers around, you can treat an EV similarly to an ICE car - drive it til its mostly empty then fill it up.
bilsbie 2y ago
I found a free charger that was super slow. But nothing else was really in range. Luckily it was by a beach. But I literally had to hang out on this beach for five hours. Weird experience. Forced leisure?
thelastgallon 2y ago
In the long run, we won't need any maps to find chargers. If you park, you can charge, not DC fast charging, but 240V charging. Cars are parked 22 - 23 hours/day, no need to build expensive DC Fast charging. I wish there was a federal rule requiring all parking to have 240V. Every building spends millions of dollars on adding handicapped parking and making the building accessible -- these features are rarely ever used, but EV parking spots will be used every day and forever.
- seattle_spring 2y ago
  Are trips longer than 300 miles outlawed in your vision of the future? Barely anyone needs DC charging for their day-to-day usage, it's largely for supporting longer trips.
seanmcdirmid 2y ago
I’m still kind of bummed that I can’t do a trip to eastern Oregon without renting a car. Even John Day is still iffy, I hope we can get more charging off the beaten track soon.
- cyberax 2y ago
  You can. I've done these trips multiple times. There is a charger in Burns that makes it possible.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    Yes, but there is no room for error (broken charging stations are a thing, and if they only have one....). There is one charger in John Day and one charger in Burns. IF Tesla Superchargers were open to my EV already, it would be a completely different story. I'm better off just going into BC instead, the Canadians are much better at this than we are.
bilsbie 2y ago
This is going to sound weird but I just did my first Tesla road trip and the charging stops were sort of low key highlights of the trip! Picnic at one while we change. Nice stroll in a park coming back. Went to a restaurant I’d never go to another time.
- wmanley 2y ago
  I also completed my first big road trip with the Tesla during the summer holidays. This was around France. With a long trip my preference was to slow charge overnight so as to start the day at >90%, and sometimes we'd also have a single supercharge during the day. The supercharger experience is great - you plug in and it works. When you're done you unplug and continue your journey. The slow charge experience was less good. In France there are a lot of charging points in car parks, but to actually start charging it involves a load of faf. 1. Slow chargers typically involve using an app or website, so you need to find that, figure out how to tell it which charger you're at, enter your payment details. Hopefully you've got internet access in the underground car park that you've selected. 2. Each provider has a different app or website - they're typically difficult to use and buggy, but each in its own unique way. 3. Slow chargers don't don't come with their own cables, so you need to get your one out of the boot, and put it away again. 4. Stopping charging typically involves navigating the website/app again, hopefully you haven't closed the tab, otherwise it's going to be a pain getting back there. 5. There's no indication on how much it's going to cost until after you've gone through all the trouble. Even then it can be unclear - for example do I need to pay for parking while I'm charging or not? 6. It often costs as much or more than the supercharger - although all the prices I saw were cheaper than the UK. 7. There are typically idle fees, so you might find yourself having to disconnect your car and move it in the middle of the night (assuming you put it on charge in the evening)[^1], or you might find yourself having to rush back to the car in the middle of your sightseeing. I want to slow charge when I'm parked, because I'm away from the car anyway. My dream slow-charging experience is: 1. Broad availability in any given car park, let me just plug in if I happen to be stopped 2. Streamlined payment process, preferably automatic and through the touchscreen of the car, rather than involving a phone or website. Don't make me enter payment card details - I want something like the apple pay experience, but "Tesla pay". 3. No idling fees so I can change my mind and have a dessert if I fancy without worrying about getting back I don't care about speed if I'm not waiting. 7kW is more than enough. [^1]: My trick here is to adjust the charging current in the Tesla app, such that it will take longer to charge. This way I'm never idling, even though I'm taking up a space for the same time anyway.
elchief 2y ago
nice job needs an easy Type I/Type II ... filter. easier than a kw slider
martini333 2y ago
The site lags on $1.000+ hardware. </thread>
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Worth mentioning that the US's Bipartisan Infrastructure Law is helping to fund chargers: > This funding opportunity is made possible by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law’s signature EV charging investments: the $2.5 billion Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (CFI) Discretionary Grant Program and funds from the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program that are set aside for strategic grants to states and local governments to deploy EV chargers. https://driveelectric.gov/news/new-cfi-funding-released https://driveelectric.gov/news/new-cfi-funding-released And as a part of this, federal standards were established for qualifying chargers. There's a bunch here to insure physical and electrical compatibility. But one of the excellent requirements is real-time API availability information, on how many chargers there are, what their charge rates are (per charger), and what chargers are presently open. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03500/national-electric-vehicle-infrastructure-standards-and-requirements https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03... This should be a great help to EV owners/renters in the US!
browningstreet 2y ago
I've been driving a Tesla around California these last couple of weeks, and using PlugShare to find "free" chargers (there are plenty of municipal chargers that don't charge, or don't charge for the first 2 hours, etc). That works pretty well, though it's not entirely up to date yet. Shell ReCharge spots aren't listed consistently. But what surprised me the most is that the Tesla map doesn't do a good job of alerting you to clustered Superchargers. For instance, in Quartsize, I've usually stopped at the only Supercharger I know about -- the one behind Carl's Jr. But across the highway there are new Superchargers, and behind Terrible's, there's a new one too. It's almost a year old at this point, and Terrible's has restrooms, and in 110F heat, the walk from the original Supercharger over to the Terrible's location is definitely something you'd want to avoid. Tesla could do a better job of letting you know that when it's routed you to a Supercharger, there are actually alternatives/ options in the immediate vicinity. It pretty stubbornly just points you to whichever one it chose.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
abdullahkhalids 2y ago
Does anyone know if these charging stations have normal sockets so one can charge their electric bike on them?
- fnordpiglet 2y ago
  In my experience in the PNW US the answer is no. They only have DC charging attachments.
- kccqzy 2y ago
  No. How do you enable payment for such normal sockets? Even if you figure out a way to do that, the amount of payment for electric bikes is so tiny that just to cover credit card processing fees would require electric bike users to pay for exorbitantly expensive electricity.
  - abdullahkhalids 2y ago
    So bike batteries are typically not more than 750 Wh. If you are trying to go on some long cross-country trip for fun, then maybe you pack three of them (2kWh of electricity). That gives you ~100 km of pedal assist. That's still a dollar/day including CC fees. Seems reasonable.
    - kccqzy 2y ago
      0.75kWh per charge even at Electrify America prices ($0.64/kWh) is not enough for a single transaction. Maybe they will force you to preload the account and then deduct from your balance. But the fact is a normal outlet consumes so little electricity that it's not economically worthwhile to meter any reasonable duration of using that single outlet.
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      Charging the bike batteries would block use of the charger for cars for too long. Some of the very oldest chargers in Europe are just normal power sockets, but I don't know what happens if you connect a small appliance.
luuurker 2y ago
For Android users wanting to use Open Charge Map, I recommend using the EVMap app instead of the official one. It doesn't let you see or post comments, but you can see pictures if available. Much smoother and also tries to show the charger status: - https://ev-map.app/ https://ev-map.app/ - https://github.com/ev-map/EVMap https://github.com/ev-map/EVMap I only use OCM when I want to add a picture or read/add a comment.
- thangalin 2y ago
  Can it filter by charging level?
  - luuurker 2y ago
    You can filter by speed, connector type, operator, number of connectors, and ignore chargers that are marked as having issues.
PeterStuer 2y ago
My neighbour's charge point is officially a public charger. It is located on his driveway, behind a closed fence. The reason it is 'public' is because there were government kickbacks for installing public charge points with no requirements to have ypur 'public' chargepoint be usable by the public. This is not a one time exception. You can drive through city streets with your GPS showing multiple nearby public access chargers. With none in sight (they are iside people's garages or on their property behind closed fences).
- wnc3141 2y ago
  Is that not fraud?
  - ac29 2y ago
    That is textbook fraud. Courts consider intent, you cant just rules lawyer them with an argument that "it didnt technically say my public charger had to be accessible to the public".
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
      Depends on the lawyer, judge, and possibly jury. We've definitely seen cases where intent of a law was clear, but the ruling was made according to the letter of the law. It's basically why Legalese exists. They have to try to cover every possible corner case and explicitly spell things out as much as possible to avoid loopholes that can be created by creative interpretations of the letter.
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  I'd report it to ChargePoint as not public (in the app, there is an option), and if you're feeling spicy, report it to whatever regulatory body handed out subsidies under the conditions you mentioned.
bgnn 2y ago
In the Netherlands we have the touring club (ANWB) app which shows all the chargers, their current status, all the parking places and petrol stations including the actual prices. Oh it also shows real time traffic and provides roadside help. All in one functional fast app for free. Amazing really what nonprofits can do.
tuatoru 2y ago
EVs will go mainstream when, and only when, this sort of thing is not needed, because you can charge your EV whenever and wherever you are, and in a few minutes, like gas stations. To replace an incumbent product, a new competitor has to be at least two of: cheaper to buy, more convenient, and cheaper to use in the long run. EVs are running at 0.5 for 3, at best.
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
  > cheaper to buy Yeah, that probably won't happen for a long time. > more convenient If you can charge at home, then for daily driving, they're more convenient than ICE. Road trips aren't bad if you have access to Tesla Superchargers. If you're CCS only, then it's another story. > cheaper to use in the long run If you can charge using residential rates in an area that doesn't have absurd energy pricing, then in the long run, an EV IS cheaper. The cost to replace a battery is a popular talking point, but it's just not relevant on any EV that isn't a first generation Leaf. It typically takes over 100,000 miles to see even 10% degradation. EVs are cheaper to maintain. No oil changes, your brake pads last forever, no transmission fluids...your only maintenance is tires, cabin air filter, and wiper blades/fluid. > EVs are running at 0.5 for 3, at best. If you charge at home, I'd say they're 1.75 out of 3, with 0.25 taken out just for road trips.
- pornel 2y ago
  This is already the reality in most of EU and the UK. There are 300kW charging stations all over the place, and a decent EV can recharge in 20 minutes. I actually prefer this over refuelling, because filling up takes 5+ minutes of my time, while recharging is unattended, so I can plug in in seconds, and go get a coffee/break in the meantime. Chargers also tend to be next to nicer places, near food courts and other retail, which is handy, and doesn't need to be a separate stop on road trips.

145 points by marklit 2y ago

nicoboo 2y ago

Really precise blog post with useful case, as usual with the author. Love his writing, findings and technical details.

xur17 2y ago
My only feedback was that he should really really consider linking the text `Open Charge Map` to the website.

negative_zero 2y ago

Why would I use this over PlugShare?

krzyk 2y ago
Or instead of OSM.
- marklit 2y ago
  OSM doesn't have the same metadata as this project.
teractiveodular 2y ago
Because Plugshare is closed source, locked down and a bizarre cesspool of uncurated garbage with zealously curated but misleading or straight up wrong information. For example, in Australia, the largest supercharger networks are Tesla and Evie. For reasons I won't even pretend to understand, Plugshare refuses to allow either name in their labels, so if a town has both, they're called "Town (1)" and "Town (2)" at random. Not only does this make searching a pain, but people just select whichever pin happens to be on top and then submit their charging reports for the wrong charger. Gar! Typical example: "Oliver's Gundagai (1)" https://www.plugshare.com/location/205861 https://www.plugshare.com/location/205861 (Chargefox) "Oliver's Gundagai (2)" https://www.plugshare.com/location/76887 https://www.plugshare.com/location/76887 (Tesla)
- promoterr 2y ago
  [dead]
- bojan 2y ago
  Weird, this problem doesn't exist in Europe. I found Plugshare to be more reliable and informative than ABRP, especially in the areas where charger stations aren't that common.
mft_ 2y ago
IME, Plugshare is of variable value. Good in Germany; terrible in Mallorca, for example.
- promoterr 2y ago
  [dead]
jwr 2y ago
PlugShare doesn't list all stations, for one.
- martini333 2y ago
  Neither does this; obviously.
- kccqzy 2y ago
  And it's easy to add a new station to PlugShare. I've done that before.
oezi 2y ago
Why would I use PlugShare over other apps on which I can also charge?
JaggedJax 2y ago
Being truly open is a huge plus for OCM. Checking a few locations in both I found that PlugShare had locations properly listed as under maintenance while OCM listed them as open, so at least near me the Plugshare data seems more accurate. I also really appreciate the images and comments people have posted in Plugshare to help find out of the way stations or stations that might not be reliable. If OSM took off it would get there, but none of the stations I checked had any comments or images. I'm not a big fan of the OCM station formatting. There's a bunch of useless information above the fold and a bunch of useful information below the fold. OCM doesn't appear to have any pricing information while PlugShare at least tells me if the station has a charge and if the parking itself has a charge. I hope that open services like this can get station data from more direct sources for more accurate information, but the data isn't quite there yet for me to want to use it when I'm actively looking for a station.
_ea1k 2y ago
Plugshare is owned by evgo. It'd be nice to have a fully independent entity owning the data and sharing it freely.
tas50 2y ago
This was my immediate question. Looking at this data in my city it reports a bunch of chargers that are either 100% gone or have been broken for a year. PlugShare reports those all correctly. I'd have a pretty bad time trying to charge around here (metro population of 2.5 million) if I relied on this dataset.
luuurker 2y ago
In London (UK), OCM seems to have more chargers and more accurate data than PlugShare. Zap Map is probably the best option though, but even them are missing some slow chargers.

oefrha 2y ago

Actual site is here: https://openchargemap.org/site https://openchargemap.org/site Site is quite janky on my M1 iPad Pro 12.9’’, and honestly, using a 3D globe view for this feels like form over function.

beeboobaa3 2y ago
seems they just used mapbox defaults. if your device can't run mapbox something is wrong with your device, it's a common and well supported library.
- oefrha 2y ago
  Example 3D globe maps on Mapbox website run very smoothly, so it’s not that.
  - nine_k 2y ago
    Take a perfectly smooth animation, add a fast-looking synchronous function call in the animation loop, get some jank. A modern GPU, even integrated into a CPU as usual on laptops, is ridiculously fast for the task of showing a globe, something like 100k triangles at worst. But you need to feed it on time.
mft_ 2y ago
Maybe also browser dependent? Constantly janky on Firefox/Windows/8840HS laptop; janky on Chrome while loading new locations but then mostly very smooth.
mikael-gramont 2y ago
FYI I'm on a 2015 MBP and Firefox is doing ok here, so I suspect this is a perf problem with Safari.
arethuza 2y ago
The service seems to believe there are multiple charging sites in the middle of the North Sea - which seems slightly unlikely...

deleted 2y ago

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Aachen 2y ago

I'm surprised the various charging maps aren't simply using OpenStreetMap. It has a large basis of charging points and anyone is free to use the data or contribute, so integrating is pretty easy. Instead, we now need to use various third-party alternatives and the market is quite fragmented. I noticed a family member with an EV needs to check two or three different systems and they'll all show different results of what chargers are near Of course, live (charging) status will need to be fetched from the operator, but that can be a URL field just like we have website and menu URL tags for restaurants

carstenhag 2y ago
OpenStreetMap gives you static data. But when charging, you almost always need dynamic data (current station availability, availability forecast, charging prices...) even in the most basic use cases. And to get dynamic data you can't just fetch it from one operator. My employer's charging network (Digital Charging Solutions) has about 1450 technical charge point operators (those are the brands you see on the stations). Even just looking at the commercial charge point operators (those are less) you'd have to connect to hundreds. Ok, there are also roaming platforms that interconnect everything. But they exist to connect, so they are never going to give you this valuable data for free. And you'd still have to implement about a dozen API connections to get reliable status data for only Europe... Edit: AMA about charging stuff :) I don't handle the data connections etc but I know a bit
- donalhunt 2y ago
  Do you foresee consolidation occuring for access to the data? Having to install 10s of apps / consult multiple sources for charging prices (not all chargers present a price) is painful.
  - carstenhag 2y ago
    I do see consolidation happening, but it doesn't have to do with data. Right now there are many EMP (eMobility Provider) in Europe, trying to get a piece of the cake. Scale of economics will make the big ones have an edge over the small ones, eventually only a few big ones will likely survive. Two examples: - If an EMP connects directly to a CPO (Charge Point Operator) they can avoid roaming platform fees, but it requires individual integration. This is only worth for very large CPO like Ionity. - An EMP has to sanitize and improve the raw chargepoint data they get from providers. Thousands of times CPOs have set their chargepoints to LatLng 0,0; have messed up lng and lat; have put their stations to Somalia's beach.

jmdots 2y ago

Someone needs to build convenience stores attached to charging stations. The money is in the store / lounge.

ilikecakeandpie 2y ago
They're starting to, I've seen quite a few
1970-01-01 2y ago
And tell us exactly where these are, their hours of operation, what they sell, and the best way to get there from here. A dedicated EV mapping team should have been something cooking at Google a decade ago. For some reason, they just aren't interested (or are now too stupid to realize) this massive, ripe business opportunity.
- jmdots 2y ago
  Well, for one, charging duration isn’t the same as filling a gas tank, so the store needs to be more coffee shop / lounge than convenience store, although those items must be available, too. It really should have an upscale vibe because electric cars are purchased more by higher income families. Spaces for telecommuting should be involved. Think of it as a truck stop but for luxury electric cars. No showers, but cubicles are there. Can I get ycombinator approved for this idea? :) /half sarcasm
bojan 2y ago
In Hungary, Czechia and Slovakia they put major chargers next to large malls, so you have all the convenience of a mall while the car is changing.
- jmdots 2y ago
  Yes, that makes sense, of course, but the point is that there is a business opportunity in the vast wide open world of the US for electric charging to not just be a sidecar to established businesses but rather a destination unto itself. Consider how much money McDonalds has made from people needing a restroom over the years.

beAbU 2y ago

Here in Ireland, I noticed that most of the "main" network public chargers are on Google Maps now, and for some of them they even show the list of connector options, number of points, and whether they are currently in use or not. They don't have costs, but I can't imagine it being that long before that information is also included. ESB, which is the largest (and cheapest) network is the most information complete. Combine this with Google Maps' existing rate + review features, ability to upload pictures and all that, I can see how this will very quickly make other 3rd party services like plugshare or similar superfluous. On a recent 800km road trip I just used Google Maps to find charging points along my route that was already planned on there. I tried using other services like ABRP or EVNavigation and found all of them pretty lacking. Ireland is probably not representative of the rest of the world. It's very small, so with my Kona EV and it's 450km range, I can basically go anywhere with minimal stops for charging. Most of the bigger towns have at least one 50kw charger, and they are rolling out 100/200kw chargers at these locations now as well. There just is no need to have a detailed route planned out with battery SOC estimates and consumption and all that, and with charge points on Google Maps I feel we are very close to ICE convenience. I just drive, and when I'm a little low on charge I search on GMaps for a charger location, drive there, plug in, empty my bladder, get a snack, and then continue on my trip again. The vast majority of my charging takes place at home though, so the above only applies when I am travelling further than 200km from home. Home charging provides access to more than 60% of the country I feel.

fiftyfifty 2y ago
This pretty much reflects what we get in the US as well. Obviously with the size of the US we have a ways to go before we get to ICE level of coverage but it has gotten much better the last 2-3 years. The only thing Google maps lacks over say the Tesla app is being able to see how many chargers are available at a station. I’ve changed my trip a little bit a few times when it’s clear one station is a lot busier than another one that might be 20 miles down the road.
- dheera 2y ago
  I once arrived at a Tesla supercharger that was full and there were Teslas lining up, but there were 4 CCS high speed DC chargers right next to them and not a single one was taken. Thankfully I had the adapter and just used one of them. Those connectors are a fucking bear to plug in though, and you usually have to try 3 times to get the charger-vehicle-payment dance to work.

DiogenesKynikos 2y ago

China is missing from this map, even though it has the most charging infrastructure of any country. Here's the best map I could find in a few minutes for China (warning - very resource-intensive website): https://chargermap.nio.com/pe/h5/static/chargermap#/ https://chargermap.nio.com/pe/h5/static/chargermap#/. Surprisingly, the above map is just charging infrastructure from one company. There is a lot of infrastructure from Tesla and other companies as well.

dataviz1000 2y ago
I’m visiting Chiang Mai Thailand and China is flooding the roads with cheap EVs, BYD, Hozon. There is charging infrastructure everywhere. I don’t know how the United States is going to compete.
- mikestew 2y ago
  So far it would seem that the U. S. is tackling that competition with tariffs. OTOH, I’m not sure what it would take to get a (for example) BYD to pass crash testing, and if it would still be price-competitive.
  - DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
    BYD cars already get top crash ratings in European tests. For example: https://youtu.be/7ThTci70350?si=8-gTWRr1_jTdZam0 https://youtu.be/7ThTci70350?si=8-gTWRr1_jTdZam0.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > BYD cars already get top crash ratings in European tests I see it coming up in the top 10 for 2023, but not 2024 [1]. Just not released yet? [1] https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/electric-vehicles/#?selectedMake=0&selectedMakeName=Select%20a%20make&selectedModel=0&selectedStar=&includeFullSafetyPackage=true&includeStandardSafetyPackage=true&selectedModelName=All&selectedProtocols=51097,49446&selectedClasses=1202,1199,1201,1196,1205,1203,1198,1179,40250,1197,1204,1180,34736,44997&allClasses=true&allProtocols=false&allDriverAssistanceTechnologies=false&selectedDriverAssistanceTechnologies=&thirdRowFitment=false https://www.euroncap.com/en/ratings-rewards/electric-vehicle...

bilsbie 2y ago

GOOD Point by my wife. Why wouldn’t every business want to put in some chargers to attract affluent customers with 30+ minutes to kill.

zelos 2y ago
Is the demand there? Affluent customers probably have chargers at home, so unless it's a 200+ mile round trip to visit the business, probably don't have much need to charge.
- parineum 2y ago
  It's chicken and egg at this point. Having an EV requires charging at home. People that can't charge at home don't buy an EV. People that would charge in a parking lot don't have an EV. Public charging has really stagnated in the last 5 years.
  - bilsbie 2y ago
    Even just for travelers though. If you’re within 30 minutes of a highway exit and there area isn’t well covered by other chargers it seems like it would be a good investment. If it were me I’d even try to sell them washer fluid and other road supplies.
  - sn 2y ago
    Me and my partner exclusively charge at work.
  - ac29 2y ago
    I think being able to charge at home is almost a requirement but definitely not necessary in some places. I charge at home maybe twice a month, and there are dozens of chargers within a few minute walk of where I live. Many retail areas have chargers too, so its easy to get a few kwh of charge on a short trip to get groceries or something. I think there are also a significant number of EV owners who almost exclusively use public DC fast charging. If there are enough fast chargers around, you can treat an EV similarly to an ICE car - drive it til its mostly empty then fill it up.

bilsbie 2y ago

I found a free charger that was super slow. But nothing else was really in range. Luckily it was by a beach. But I literally had to hang out on this beach for five hours. Weird experience. Forced leisure?

thelastgallon 2y ago

In the long run, we won't need any maps to find chargers. If you park, you can charge, not DC fast charging, but 240V charging. Cars are parked 22 - 23 hours/day, no need to build expensive DC Fast charging. I wish there was a federal rule requiring all parking to have 240V. Every building spends millions of dollars on adding handicapped parking and making the building accessible -- these features are rarely ever used, but EV parking spots will be used every day and forever.

seattle_spring 2y ago
Are trips longer than 300 miles outlawed in your vision of the future? Barely anyone needs DC charging for their day-to-day usage, it's largely for supporting longer trips.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago

I’m still kind of bummed that I can’t do a trip to eastern Oregon without renting a car. Even John Day is still iffy, I hope we can get more charging off the beaten track soon.

cyberax 2y ago
You can. I've done these trips multiple times. There is a charger in Burns that makes it possible.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  Yes, but there is no room for error (broken charging stations are a thing, and if they only have one....). There is one charger in John Day and one charger in Burns. IF Tesla Superchargers were open to my EV already, it would be a completely different story. I'm better off just going into BC instead, the Canadians are much better at this than we are.

bilsbie 2y ago

This is going to sound weird but I just did my first Tesla road trip and the charging stops were sort of low key highlights of the trip! Picnic at one while we change. Nice stroll in a park coming back. Went to a restaurant I’d never go to another time.

wmanley 2y ago
I also completed my first big road trip with the Tesla during the summer holidays. This was around France. With a long trip my preference was to slow charge overnight so as to start the day at >90%, and sometimes we'd also have a single supercharge during the day. The supercharger experience is great - you plug in and it works. When you're done you unplug and continue your journey. The slow charge experience was less good. In France there are a lot of charging points in car parks, but to actually start charging it involves a load of faf. 1. Slow chargers typically involve using an app or website, so you need to find that, figure out how to tell it which charger you're at, enter your payment details. Hopefully you've got internet access in the underground car park that you've selected. 2. Each provider has a different app or website - they're typically difficult to use and buggy, but each in its own unique way. 3. Slow chargers don't don't come with their own cables, so you need to get your one out of the boot, and put it away again. 4. Stopping charging typically involves navigating the website/app again, hopefully you haven't closed the tab, otherwise it's going to be a pain getting back there. 5. There's no indication on how much it's going to cost until after you've gone through all the trouble. Even then it can be unclear - for example do I need to pay for parking while I'm charging or not? 6. It often costs as much or more than the supercharger - although all the prices I saw were cheaper than the UK. 7. There are typically idle fees, so you might find yourself having to disconnect your car and move it in the middle of the night (assuming you put it on charge in the evening)[^1], or you might find yourself having to rush back to the car in the middle of your sightseeing. I want to slow charge when I'm parked, because I'm away from the car anyway. My dream slow-charging experience is: 1. Broad availability in any given car park, let me just plug in if I happen to be stopped 2. Streamlined payment process, preferably automatic and through the touchscreen of the car, rather than involving a phone or website. Don't make me enter payment card details - I want something like the apple pay experience, but "Tesla pay". 3. No idling fees so I can change my mind and have a dessert if I fancy without worrying about getting back I don't care about speed if I'm not waiting. 7kW is more than enough. [^1]: My trick here is to adjust the charging current in the Tesla app, such that it will take longer to charge. This way I'm never idling, even though I'm taking up a space for the same time anyway.

elchief 2y ago

nice job needs an easy Type I/Type II ... filter. easier than a kw slider

martini333 2y ago

The site lags on $1.000+ hardware. </thread>

jauntywundrkind 2y ago

Worth mentioning that the US's Bipartisan Infrastructure Law is helping to fund chargers: > This funding opportunity is made possible by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law’s signature EV charging investments: the $2.5 billion Charging and Fueling Infrastructure (CFI) Discretionary Grant Program and funds from the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) Formula Program that are set aside for strategic grants to states and local governments to deploy EV chargers. https://driveelectric.gov/news/new-cfi-funding-released https://driveelectric.gov/news/new-cfi-funding-released And as a part of this, federal standards were established for qualifying chargers. There's a bunch here to insure physical and electrical compatibility. But one of the excellent requirements is real-time API availability information, on how many chargers there are, what their charge rates are (per charger), and what chargers are presently open. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03500/national-electric-vehicle-infrastructure-standards-and-requirements https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2023/02/28/2023-03... This should be a great help to EV owners/renters in the US!

browningstreet 2y ago

I've been driving a Tesla around California these last couple of weeks, and using PlugShare to find "free" chargers (there are plenty of municipal chargers that don't charge, or don't charge for the first 2 hours, etc). That works pretty well, though it's not entirely up to date yet. Shell ReCharge spots aren't listed consistently. But what surprised me the most is that the Tesla map doesn't do a good job of alerting you to clustered Superchargers. For instance, in Quartsize, I've usually stopped at the only Supercharger I know about -- the one behind Carl's Jr. But across the highway there are new Superchargers, and behind Terrible's, there's a new one too. It's almost a year old at this point, and Terrible's has restrooms, and in 110F heat, the walk from the original Supercharger over to the Terrible's location is definitely something you'd want to avoid. Tesla could do a better job of letting you know that when it's routed you to a Supercharger, there are actually alternatives/ options in the immediate vicinity. It pretty stubbornly just points you to whichever one it chose.

deleted 2y ago
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abdullahkhalids 2y ago

Does anyone know if these charging stations have normal sockets so one can charge their electric bike on them?

fnordpiglet 2y ago
In my experience in the PNW US the answer is no. They only have DC charging attachments.
kccqzy 2y ago
No. How do you enable payment for such normal sockets? Even if you figure out a way to do that, the amount of payment for electric bikes is so tiny that just to cover credit card processing fees would require electric bike users to pay for exorbitantly expensive electricity.
- abdullahkhalids 2y ago
  So bike batteries are typically not more than 750 Wh. If you are trying to go on some long cross-country trip for fun, then maybe you pack three of them (2kWh of electricity). That gives you ~100 km of pedal assist. That's still a dollar/day including CC fees. Seems reasonable.
  - kccqzy 2y ago
    0.75kWh per charge even at Electrify America prices ($0.64/kWh) is not enough for a single transaction. Maybe they will force you to preload the account and then deduct from your balance. But the fact is a normal outlet consumes so little electricity that it's not economically worthwhile to meter any reasonable duration of using that single outlet.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    Charging the bike batteries would block use of the charger for cars for too long. Some of the very oldest chargers in Europe are just normal power sockets, but I don't know what happens if you connect a small appliance.

luuurker 2y ago

For Android users wanting to use Open Charge Map, I recommend using the EVMap app instead of the official one. It doesn't let you see or post comments, but you can see pictures if available. Much smoother and also tries to show the charger status: - https://ev-map.app/ https://ev-map.app/ - https://github.com/ev-map/EVMap https://github.com/ev-map/EVMap I only use OCM when I want to add a picture or read/add a comment.

thangalin 2y ago
Can it filter by charging level?
- luuurker 2y ago
  You can filter by speed, connector type, operator, number of connectors, and ignore chargers that are marked as having issues.

PeterStuer 2y ago

My neighbour's charge point is officially a public charger. It is located on his driveway, behind a closed fence. The reason it is 'public' is because there were government kickbacks for installing public charge points with no requirements to have ypur 'public' chargepoint be usable by the public. This is not a one time exception. You can drive through city streets with your GPS showing multiple nearby public access chargers. With none in sight (they are iside people's garages or on their property behind closed fences).

wnc3141 2y ago
Is that not fraud?
- ac29 2y ago
  That is textbook fraud. Courts consider intent, you cant just rules lawyer them with an argument that "it didnt technically say my public charger had to be accessible to the public".
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
    Depends on the lawyer, judge, and possibly jury. We've definitely seen cases where intent of a law was clear, but the ruling was made according to the letter of the law. It's basically why Legalese exists. They have to try to cover every possible corner case and explicitly spell things out as much as possible to avoid loopholes that can be created by creative interpretations of the letter.
toomuchtodo 2y ago
I'd report it to ChargePoint as not public (in the app, there is an option), and if you're feeling spicy, report it to whatever regulatory body handed out subsidies under the conditions you mentioned.

bgnn 2y ago

In the Netherlands we have the touring club (ANWB) app which shows all the chargers, their current status, all the parking places and petrol stations including the actual prices. Oh it also shows real time traffic and provides roadside help. All in one functional fast app for free. Amazing really what nonprofits can do.

tuatoru 2y ago

EVs will go mainstream when, and only when, this sort of thing is not needed, because you can charge your EV whenever and wherever you are, and in a few minutes, like gas stations. To replace an incumbent product, a new competitor has to be at least two of: cheaper to buy, more convenient, and cheaper to use in the long run. EVs are running at 0.5 for 3, at best.

Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
> cheaper to buy Yeah, that probably won't happen for a long time. > more convenient If you can charge at home, then for daily driving, they're more convenient than ICE. Road trips aren't bad if you have access to Tesla Superchargers. If you're CCS only, then it's another story. > cheaper to use in the long run If you can charge using residential rates in an area that doesn't have absurd energy pricing, then in the long run, an EV IS cheaper. The cost to replace a battery is a popular talking point, but it's just not relevant on any EV that isn't a first generation Leaf. It typically takes over 100,000 miles to see even 10% degradation. EVs are cheaper to maintain. No oil changes, your brake pads last forever, no transmission fluids...your only maintenance is tires, cabin air filter, and wiper blades/fluid. > EVs are running at 0.5 for 3, at best. If you charge at home, I'd say they're 1.75 out of 3, with 0.25 taken out just for road trips.
pornel 2y ago
This is already the reality in most of EU and the UK. There are 300kW charging stations all over the place, and a decent EV can recharge in 20 minutes. I actually prefer this over refuelling, because filling up takes 5+ minutes of my time, while recharging is unattended, so I can plug in in seconds, and go get a coffee/break in the meantime. Chargers also tend to be next to nicer places, near food courts and other retail, which is handy, and doesn't need to be a separate stop on road trips.