21 ms·

Independent directors of 23andMe resign from board

633 points by LarsDu88 2y ago

LarsDu88 2y ago
Literally just one day after 23andMe presented positive phase 2 clinical results for two anti-cancer drugs: https://therapeutics.23andme.com/news-and-research/ https://therapeutics.23andme.com/news-and-research/ The board of directors of 23andMe just resigned in protest. The CEO, Anne Wojcicki (who's sister Susan died of lung cancer last month, and was the former CEO of YouTube) had tried to low ball take the company private at only $0.40 a share -- a more than 96% drop from its deSPAC price. For reference, right now the market cap of 23andMe is $172 million, its closest competitor Ancestry.com was bought out by the Blackstone group for $4.7 billion, and cumulative sales of KeyTruda - an anti-cancer drug in the same family as the one being developed by 23andMe had cumulative sales of $25 billion by 2023. Feels like the main thing holding this company back is the CEO and lack of corporate governance (due to majority shareholder control resting in the hands of one person)
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Does the corporate structure support a hostile takeover? This would enable purging management and re-staffing with competent leadership.
  - LarsDu88 2y ago
    Virtually impossible as Anne Wojcicki holds 20% of the outstanding shares and 49% of the voting power of total outstanding shares. That's essentially dictator-level power over the company. I believe the next largest shareholder is Richard Branson. Source: https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-details/23andme-announces-ceos-intention-pursue-potential-take-private https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-det... Despite the promising drug development news, the CEO signaled last month that she was willing to let public investors get hosed, with a low ball take-private offer of $0.40/share. I believe this pissed both public investors and the board members off. I'm not sure if the positive phase 2 results were icing on the cake. Quite honestly this company is a ripe target for acquisition by a biopharma company like GSK or Roche.
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      Regrettable. I suppose the alternative path is to let them go bankrupt and to get bought out of bankruptcy. That should wipe out all equity holders. If you’re a potential bidder, get your financing or cash lined up.
      - javierluraschi 2y ago
        She (the CEO) has a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the company and its shareholders. Intentionally driving a company into bankruptcy for personal gain is a massive breach of that duty and opens her up to all kinds of legal trouble. So I would think that's a very bad idea.
        toomuchtodo 2y ago
        They're going bankrupt because they're almost out of cash [1]. The CEO is holding public investors hostage with the low ball take private offer LarsDu88 mentioned. The stock, NASDAQ: ME, currently trades at 29 cents/share [2] and will be delisted shortly [3]. Their failure to secure their customer DNA data with MFA cost them a $30M fine they must pay [4]. My comment you replied to was attempting to communicate that, because the CEO holds most of the control over the company, it is preferable to let it slip into bankruptcy (where equity and their control will be wiped out) vs continuing allowing them the control they have, which is not leading to a favorable outcome for the enterprise. This is potentially superior to recapitalizing the existing enterprise and continuing to allow the CEO to light capital on fire. [1] https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-details/23andme-reports-third-quarter-fiscal-2024-financial-results https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-det... (draw your attention to quarterly burn rate and cash on hand) [2] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ME/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ME/ [3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-10/struggling-23andme-granted-extension-to-revive-stock-price https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-10/strugglin... |https://archive.today/yTo01 https://archive.today/yTo01 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41536494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41536494
        2y ago
- LeanderK 2y ago
  what am I missing? Isn't this good news (the positive phase 2 results)?
  - firejake308 2y ago
    Yes, but the CEO was trying to take those profits for herself by biding to take the company private, which the Board of Directors refused to put up with
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - maxerickson 2y ago
    The board is making it clear that they don't think the CEO/largest shareholder is making good on their duty (as CEO) to the other shareholders. "Good luck ......" or so.
  - ilamont 2y ago
    Phase 2 is not a slam dunk. Much more work remains, and under the guidance of a CEO who has zero drug development experience and a track record of management incompetence: - lying about growth - pushing out the cofounder - never making a profit - hack that went undiscovered for months About the only area she's had success is raising money and that's in large part thanks to being a member of the Silicon Valley elite.
    - dekhn 2y ago
      you left out "ignored a letter from the FDA telling them to shut down"
    - gosub100 2y ago
      Could the hack have been part of the plan all along to depress the share price to make for a cheap buy-out?
    - LarsDu88 2y ago
      Mathematically, the chance of a drug going from phase 2 to phase 3 is roughly 30% This can be modeled with a binomial distribution as 1-probability of both failing. That comes out to 1-(.7^2) which is 51% of at least one drug reaching phase 3. There is literally a coin flip chance the company will reach the stage where there is another coin flip it will be worth billions (I believe ~50% of phase 3 drugs go to market), but thanks to the messaging of the CEO, right now it seems like there is a near 0% chance investors (which include former company employees) would benefit from this.
- justinclift 2y ago
  > Literally just one day after 23andMe presented positive phase 2 clinical results for two anti-cancer drugs ... That's not entirely correct. It was two days after. ;) • https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-details/23andme-therapeutics-announces-phase-2-results-two-additional https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-det... There's also this, on the same day: • https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-details/23andme-therapeutics-announces-positive-vivo-results-23me-01473 https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-det...
  - LarsDu88 2y ago
    I stand corrected. Well maybe the board took a day to get together and draft the letter. One of the board members Neal Mohan has to stand before a judge in Google's current anti-trust trial. No doubt he has no time for this stuff.
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  Why is she even the CEO? Was she placed there by Google once they bought 23andme?
  - sanswork 2y ago
    She founded it
  - akkartik 2y ago
    She's one of the original cofounders. Google never acquired it, only invested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23andMe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23andMe
  - vlovich123 2y ago
    When did that happen? A founder was married to Sergei Brin for 8 years but that’s it.
  - hackernewds 2y ago
    They haven't bought 23andme. but there is overlap, Anne was the former CEO of YouTube and wife of Sergey Brin
    - bluedevil2k 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - bee_rider 2y ago
        Which part is incorrect?
        bluedevil2k 2y ago
        Anne was never CEO of YouTube
    - LarsDu88 2y ago
      Anne's sister Susan, who died a month ago of lung cancer was CEO of YouTube. Susan was the person who advocated Google acquire YouTube in the first place. Google was founded in the garage of Anne and Susan's childhood home. Anne was married to Sergei until he had an affair. One of the board members of 23andMe is Neal Mohan who is the current CEO of YouTube.
- brookst 2y ago
  To complete the data, the company is trading at $0.34/share, so while $0.40 is a bit lower than the typical 20% premium (~$0.41), I'm not sure it counts as "lowball". It's a typical premium over market cap. Is there any reason to think the company is worth $4.7B or whatever ($9.30/share)? If so the stock is a steal at its current price and we should all buy lots. But can the market be THAT wrong?
  - austhrow743 2y ago
    My take on their comment was that it should be worth many billions if it was being run effectively but that it's not. That doesn't mean the market is wrong, it means the market thinks it will continue to be run ineffectively.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      if that is the case, isnt paying stockholders 20% over value a pretty good deal, and not a ripoff? It seems like there are contradictory facts being claimed: that the price to go private is a lowball, and that the current price is accurate.
      - austhrow743 2y ago
        If the one offering 20% over listed price is the one causing the listed price to be far more than 20% below what the company could be worth if they were running it properly, most people would consider that to be a ripoff.
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        That seems like conspiracy thinking. The stockholders own part of the company with current management, not some hypothetical alternative. If they sell, they are selling a stake in the real company as it exists, not the alternate reality one. Think of a more relatable example. . A rental house with crazy tenants sells for less than a vacant one. If you buy or own a stake in a business that is controlled by poor managers, you are lucky to sell for a 20% premium.
- hackernewds 2y ago
  why are these companies worth so much, if not for sneakily monetizing and selling their user's most personal data?
  - llm_nerd 2y ago
    The plan was always that DNA could be use for medical research, which is enormously valuable. And given that 23andme currently has a market cap 1/20th DJT (Trump Media & Technology Group Corp) -- a firm that makes less revenue than a variety store yet has huge losses -- I wouldn't really say it's "worth so much".
    - elictronic 2y ago
      I wouldn’t compare any stock to DJT. MAGA voters value signaling, institutional investors playing games, foreign governments laundering money to the campaign, primary shareholder prepping for exit. The companies actual revenue has zero impact and never will. Treat DJT like a NFT and it makes a ton of sense.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > wouldn’t compare any stock to DJT. MAGA voters value signaling, institutional investors playing games, foreign governments laundering money to the campaign, primary shareholder prepping for exit You’re right for the wrong reasons. (EDIT: I'm wrong for no reason.) Dow Jones is obsolete [1]. Its value is in its brand, i.e. other people look at it. The other factors you mention are noise. Relevant to a trader or market maker with infintessimal time horizons. But irrelevant to an investor thinking even in months. The American markets are simply too deep. The totality of dollars at work by MAGA voters, game-playing hedge funds and money launderers--through the stock market--is negligible. (Lots of political tea-leave reading funds have been attempted. Zero prevail.) [1] https://retirementresearcher.com/why-the-dow-doesnt-work/ https://retirementresearcher.com/why-the-dow-doesnt-work/
        quickthrowman 2y ago
- nextos 2y ago
  Was the plan all the time to go B2B (drug development) and they just used B2C (selling SNP kits) to hoard samples? Even considering all FDA limitations, I cannot understand how bad their genetic risk scores are. They have talent, they have lots of customers and data. This is a position other companies, like deCODE, would have killed to be in.
  - LarsDu88 2y ago
    If the board is resigning, and the company is selling DNA kits, running a telemedicine operation, selling pharmceuticals online AND developing cancer drugs at a 180 million dollar market cap... It's quite possible there was no plan at all...
    - AlbertCory 2y ago
      I saw Ann when she gave a talk at Google (that was when she was still married to Sergey). They had spit cups we could use if we wanted our DNA sequenced. I didn't. Their business plan was straight out of South Park: 1. Collect lots of DNA 2. ?????? 3. Profit!!
      - marcinzm 2y ago
        Isn't that the case for almost every single VC backed startup?
        hennell 2y ago
        s/dna/data and you're pretty much any tech business.
    - burningChrome 2y ago
      >>> selling pharmceuticals online That would explain them selling 5 million users DNA information to GSK. Earlier this summer, the often-scrutinized at-home genetic testing company 23andMe sold genetic data from five million customers to the pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline (GSK). This surprised a lot of their customers who had forgotten that they consented to this when they signed up for the service. https://cglife.com/blog/23andme-sold-your-genetic-data-to-gsk-personalized-medicine-ethics/ https://cglife.com/blog/23andme-sold-your-genetic-data-to-gs...
- zzleeper 2y ago
  So sad that Blackstone bought ancestry.. newspapers.com is a really nice tool for researchers (and most things that get touched by PE end up enshittified)
  - AlbertCory 2y ago
    I suppose I should know this: who owns newspapers.com? What's the connection?
    - LarsDu88 2y ago
      Ancestry owns newspapers.com A lot of Ancestry.com and AncestryDNA was founded to support the Mormon belief that the LDS church can posthumously baptize ancestors of living individuals into the church under the belief that many deceased individuals were not alive to hear the gospel of Joseph Smith. Thus the massive data collection effort for historical information like newpaper articles from this century and the last.
      - myth_drannon 2y ago
        I think they stopped doing it. Jewish organizations were absolutely livid once they found out they were baptizing Holocaust victims.
        mulderc 2y ago
        It is a pretty important aspect of Latter Day Saint theology. They still do it but officially you can only baptize your own family members with the permission of surviving family members. These guidelines are not always followed. Additionally they have said they removed people from their rosters that were improperly baptized but the members I have talked with are skeptical and found it a bit laughable that the church removing a name from a database would somehow undo a sacred ritual.
        voganmother42 2y ago
- bruceb 2y ago
  Closest competitor does a lot of heavy lifting in this situation. Ancestry is the overwhelming leader in the find long lost relative space/your "roots" space. Look at https://www.ancestry.com/ https://www.ancestry.com/ and https://www.23andme.com/ https://www.23andme.com/ 23andme has basically given up on this part of the business. Their pitch is health. But that pitch is murky with no good hook to keep you hooked for a monthly subscription. So after they get the initial $99 from the customer, most of the value customer is going to get is already served up in the first report. Maybe their big database will turn into making cancer drugs but maybe it wont.
  - yellowapple 2y ago
    > 23andme has basically given up on this part of the business. The routine emails I get about them allegedly finding new DNA relatives suggest otherwise. The DNA relatives feature is also still pretty prominent in their UI (at least on desktop browsers; haven't looked at the app yet). That said, it certainly doesn't offer much beyond "these are your relatives; send 'em some messages or something lol". Ancestry probably has a lot more features on that front, which is unsurprising since that's the sort of thing Ancestry was doing long before they even offered DNA sequencing kits like 23andMe does. I don't know if I'd characterize that as 23andMe "giving up", though; more that it's good enough for a product that never intended to enter the genealogy software market in the first place.
    - codedokode 2y ago
      I wonder, do the "relatives" know and agree that their information is sent to other person?
      - sitharus 2y ago
        …yes that’s how it works? You opt in and choose what you share. They’re quite explicit about it.
        nnutter 2y ago
- TheRealPomax 2y ago
  "closest competitor" really doesn't mean anything here. That's like calling a failing burger joint in a random US city a "competitor of McDonalds". No they're not.
- phonon 2y ago
  So why doesn't Ancestry/Blackstone buy out 23andMe? Antitrust? Shareholder control issues?
  - ac29 2y ago
    They are deeply unprofitable and always have been. Looking at FY24, they spent $4 for every $1 in revenue.
- darby_nine 2y ago
  > Feels like the main thing holding this company back is the CEO Use has also dropped, no? There's serious questions about long term revenue generation. Ancestry.com doesn't require selling your genetic code to collaborate on geneology.
- edm0nd 2y ago
  Anne Wojcicki is also the exwife of billionaire Google founder Sergey Brin. I have always felt as if 23andMe was just her pet lil project and it doesn't matter if its ever profitable or not.
- zombiwoof 2y ago
  Luck and being in the right place at the right time can’t make a CEO. Anne is a terrible CEO
jonstewart 2y ago
They also just settled a class-action lawsuit stemming from their data breach: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/23andme-to-pay-30-million-in-genetics-data-breach-settlement/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/23andme-to-pa...
- hackernewds 2y ago
  "data breach"
  - justin_oaks 2y ago
    To those wondering why the quotes are given, I assume it's because no 23andMe system was compromised. The data was retrieved via credential stuffing, which is trying username/email and password combinations from other data breaches. It can be argued that 23andMe should have had stricter login requirements (e.g. require MFA, require longer passwords) and by failing to do so they were responsible for the leaked data. Or you can argue that the users didn't protect their own data since they didn't use long, secure passwords that were unique per website.
- LarsDu88 2y ago
  The settlement is way lower than what it could have been. The settlement should be seen as positive news for the company's future, not negative.
- typeofhuman 2y ago
  I think data-breaches could carry the death penalty for companies. I just got a notification from some health services company that my and my toddlers data was accessed. Including medical history, diagnoses, payment details, SSN, birthday. Why was this not encrypted? Given the world today, this is negligent. The government should be able to disolve the company and give the money to the victims. If there was a willful disregard for "common security and privacy standards", criminal charges against the executive team. You want my personal life data? It comes with steep personal risk.
  - 2y ago
SoftTalker 2y ago
Zero chance I ever give my DNA to one of these companies.
- mhsdef 2y ago
  Did your relative? I'm not a geneticist so I could be totally off the mark; but, to my understanding, the painful part is that is a big disclosure right there
  - dylan604 2y ago
    yeah, it's like the shadow profiles on social media sites. just because you didn't do it, doesn't mean that someone else doesn't
  - HideousKojima 2y ago
    My oldest brother did so I'm already screwed
    - starfezzy 2y ago
      Can even one single person here articulate their specific fears of using 23andme, or is it all FUD?
      - zetsurin 2y ago
        Maybe too far fetched? Company sells/loses data, insurance companies use data to deny coverage, or deem claims as pre-existing.
        peanutz454 2y ago
        Can an insurance company deny claim based on your DNA? They deny claims for pre-existing condition that you hid from the, which would be the wrong thing to do on your part. They cannot deny claim based on pre existing disposition. Practically everyone is predisposed for getting cancer by merely being human, you might even have cancerous cells in your body right now, that you body will destroy in a couple of minutes.
breck 2y ago
For the record, 23andme is one of the few companies where the CEO never once responded to one of my emails (2017, 2019, 2022, 2024). You can make a lot of money just by betting on companies where the CEO (or the CEO's office) takes listening to customers'(who are rooting for them!) emails seriously, and shorting those that do not.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- LarsDu88 2y ago
  You cold e-mail CEOs and get a >70% hitrate? I gotta try this more often.
  - breck 2y ago
    I do put try to make them a mix of feedback + entertainment. Example To: jeff@amazon.com subject: The Day the Music Died I was looking forward to playing my Yamaha Digital Piano that I ordered from Amazon today when I got home from work at "the country club". Instead I'm stuck tapping this UPS "Delivery Attempted" notice and the melodies just aren't coming through. ? In the last 6 months I ordered 37 packages from Amazon. I needed to be home for zero. Why didn't Amazon send me an email, phone call, text, message through Echo, notification through one of my four Amazon iPhone apps, or airdrop from a drone alerting me that I needed to be there for this package? I also have an Amazon Echo at home so Alexa should have an idea of my schedule and know that the odds of a successful delivery at 4:42pm on a weekday are 1%. Now I'm listening to Alexa play sad songs instead of belting out great new tunes on my Yamaha. Also, why didn't the UPS driver call or text me when he or she was at my building to ask if it was okay to leave the package? This would have saved them a minimum of 1 trip and I wouldn't have to bet the delivery of my $700 package to a half a cent sticky note stuck to my door being pelted by the Seattle rain. OK love ya bye -Breck
    - potsandpans 2y ago
      If this is representative of the quality of your emails, I would read every one that you published.
mensetmanusman 2y ago
“Nearly every baby born in the U.S. has blood drawn in the immediate hours after their birth, allowing the baby to be tested for a panel of potentially life-threatening inherited disorders. This is a vital public health program, enabling early treatment of newborns with genetic disorders; for them, it can be the difference between a healthy life and an early death. But recent news suggests that police are seeking access to these newborn blood samples in criminal investigations. Such use of this trove of genetic material — to hunt for evidence that could implicate a child’s relative in a crime — endangers public trust in this vital health program and threatens all Americans’ right to genetic privacy.” All of our new babies had heel stick blood drawn, won’t the government be the eventual competitor of 23 and me (since Americans don’t care too much about privacy). https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/police-are-using-newborn-genetic-screening https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/police-are-usin...
- LarsDu88 2y ago
  Not necessarily. Just because the government is collecting everyone's DNA doesn't mean they're gonna create a slick web app for showing you your ancestry results. That's like asking why the DMV isn't competing with Google for revenue...
- CSMastermind 2y ago
  My most radical political opinion is that we need a right to privacy enshrined in a constitutional amendment. And it needs to be robust enough to prevent the government from subpoenaing data collected by private companies.
  - typeofhuman 2y ago
    The 4th Amendment should already do that.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - tikhonj 2y ago
hackernewds 2y ago
Why is this published on their Investor page, against the reigning CEO?
- intunderflow 2y ago
  It's mandatory that they have to disclose this
- LarsDu88 2y ago
  SEC regulations
gorgoiler 2y ago
[flagged]
- WheatMillington 2y ago
  I read the wording quite differently. I read a clearly exasperated board resigning in protest due to the intractable relationship with, the poor decision making of, the CEO. If an independent board is unable to effectively govern because of the actions of the CEO, resigning is the correct course of action, and investors have a right to know why.
wslh 2y ago
What is a good alternative to 23andMe that retain confidentiality, and is it enough to use/play with Python packages for genetics
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- dangero 2y ago
  Dante Labs
  - gruez 2y ago
    I skimmed their website and it doesn't seem like they're promising any sort of confidentiality. Maybe there's something buried in their privacy policy, but you'd think that privacy would be a pretty big selling point?
- neuroelectron 2y ago
  Home lab
  - teitoklien 2y ago
    DIY tips please on how to do it What do I need, centrifuges ?, Electrophoresis gel ?, X-RAY machines, Or hand held dna scanning devices like these : https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/01/pocket-sized-dna-reader-used-to-scan-entire-human-genome-sequence/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/01/pocket-sized-dna-rea... ?
    - fragmede 2y ago
      https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/12/24/sequencing-your-dna-with-a-usb-dongle-and-open-source-code/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/12/24/sequencing-your-dna-wi... ~$800 USB dongle (above article was published in 2021 and the price has gone down) plus consumables.
      - 2y ago
typeofhuman 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
marcell 2y ago
I used to work at 23andMe, AMA
- j_bum 2y ago
  What was your role?
  - marcell 2y ago
    Software engineer
    - j_bum 2y ago
      Were you working in the bioinformatics pipeline?
      - marcell 2y ago
        Kind of, dev ops and big data
- itake 2y ago
  did the employees come out ok equity-wise from the spac merger?
  - marcell 2y ago
    I did not, but that’s because I joined late and had a high strike price. I also turned down a second market offer to sell at around $15/share. Oops. Many people sold during internal private liquidity events, and they did well. If you joined early you did well.
  - LarsDu88 2y ago
    Only the ones who cashed out on the private market before the company went public
  - exttam40591 2y ago
dvh 2y ago
There is absolutely no reason for these companies to collect your PII whatsoever. You should go to nearest pharmacy and buy sterile swab, swab yourself and write long random number on it and send it. Once a month company publishes one giant zip with all the monthly result where you find your file by that random number you wrote.
- ben_w 2y ago
  > write long random number on it Human brains when generating 'random' numbers: https://xkcd.com/221/ https://xkcd.com/221/ > Once a month company publishes one giant zip with all the monthly result where you find your file by that random number you wrote. Given how much of our appearance is due to genetics, that's basically all the harm with none of the convenience.
  - zahlman 2y ago
    >Human brains when generating 'random' numbers Fortunately, contemporary humans have access to computers, which can generate random numbers for them free of charge. >Given how much of our appearance is due to genetics, that's basically all the harm I can't fathom your concept of "harm"; and neither, I think, would any prospective customer of this service.
    - ben_w 2y ago
      > I can't fathom your concept of "harm"; and neither, I think, would any prospective customer of this service. I'm fairly relaxed about my medical history, but it's really obvious to me that I'm weird in being relaxed. Despite my relaxed attitude, it's still fairly obvious that this lists every genetic condition*, which in turn obviously going to be relevant to any health insurance provider that isn't banned from using it. Monetary damages are one of the easiest ones to quantify, from what I hear. * even those that have not yet had the relevant genes discovered, because statistical methods need a larger population
    - gklitz 2y ago
      What? “I’m worried my genetic sequence will be leaked and abused” turns into “why not just have the company leak the genetic sequences of everyone every month” and you can’t see the harm? At this point we practically have a single search engine that’ll take you genetic sequence aa input and return your face, you entire family tree, your current job and address and what you do in your free time.
matrix87 2y ago
Something I just remembered about this company: after a data breach, they tried retroactively changing ToS to shield from lawsuits Frankly I find this lack of accountability utterly repulsive. Anything this leadership touches is poison to me > Through a mechanism called acceptance by silence or inaction, 23andMe stipulated that customers must explicitly tell the company they disagree with the new terms within 30 days of being notified of the changes or they will be locked into the terms automatically. > After the attack, hackers published around 1 million data points about users with Ashkenazi Jewish heritage and information about more than 300,000 users with Chinese heritage. https://www.axios.com/2023/12/07/23andme-terms-of-service-update-data-breach https://www.axios.com/2023/12/07/23andme-terms-of-service-up...
yard2010 2y ago
Bullshit translation: We quit. You didn't give us a real offer, so we're out. We still believe in the company, but you have too much control, so we're leaving to avoid a fight. We did our best, but it's time to go.
- xbar 2y ago
  I suspect it goes further. "You are a liar and we cannot further risk our reputations on your dishonesty."
cromulent 2y ago
Some background from Freakonomics a few months ago: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-23andme-going-under-update/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-23andme-going-under-...
luxpir 2y ago
A little trivia: since the recent 23andMe breach, the desci project genomesdao has launched a new service that allows 23andMe data exports to be imported into their platform. They then attract pharmaceuticals to make specific requests and share the profit from the requests. They'll explain it better on the site! They've been around since at least 2018, have won recognised innovation awards and is run by scientists, so not your typical crypto project. Disclaimer: 23andMe customer and genomesdao holder.
aanet 2y ago
This would make for a great case study in corporate governance. I hope someone is writing a book on _Corporate Governance in Silicon Valley_, and include stories from, say, 23andMe, OpenAI, WeWork, Uber, and tons more. I'd pay $$ to read 'em all in one place. /sarc
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

633 points by LarsDu88 2y ago

Literally just one day after 23andMe presented positive phase 2 clinical results for two anti-cancer drugs: https://therapeutics.23andme.com/news-and-research/ https://therapeutics.23andme.com/news-and-research/ The board of directors of 23andMe just resigned in protest. The CEO, Anne Wojcicki (who's sister Susan died of lung cancer last month, and was the former CEO of YouTube) had tried to low ball take the company private at only $0.40 a share -- a more than 96% drop from its deSPAC price. For reference, right now the market cap of 23andMe is $172 million, its closest competitor Ancestry.com was bought out by the Blackstone group for $4.7 billion, and cumulative sales of KeyTruda - an anti-cancer drug in the same family as the one being developed by 23andMe had cumulative sales of $25 billion by 2023. Feels like the main thing holding this company back is the CEO and lack of corporate governance (due to majority shareholder control resting in the hands of one person)

toomuchtodo 2y ago
Does the corporate structure support a hostile takeover? This would enable purging management and re-staffing with competent leadership.
- LarsDu88 2y ago
  Virtually impossible as Anne Wojcicki holds 20% of the outstanding shares and 49% of the voting power of total outstanding shares. That's essentially dictator-level power over the company. I believe the next largest shareholder is Richard Branson. Source: https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-details/23andme-announces-ceos-intention-pursue-potential-take-private https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-det... Despite the promising drug development news, the CEO signaled last month that she was willing to let public investors get hosed, with a low ball take-private offer of $0.40/share. I believe this pissed both public investors and the board members off. I'm not sure if the positive phase 2 results were icing on the cake. Quite honestly this company is a ripe target for acquisition by a biopharma company like GSK or Roche.
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Regrettable. I suppose the alternative path is to let them go bankrupt and to get bought out of bankruptcy. That should wipe out all equity holders. If you’re a potential bidder, get your financing or cash lined up.
    - javierluraschi 2y ago
      She (the CEO) has a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the company and its shareholders. Intentionally driving a company into bankruptcy for personal gain is a massive breach of that duty and opens her up to all kinds of legal trouble. So I would think that's a very bad idea.
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        They're going bankrupt because they're almost out of cash [1]. The CEO is holding public investors hostage with the low ball take private offer LarsDu88 mentioned. The stock, NASDAQ: ME, currently trades at 29 cents/share [2] and will be delisted shortly [3]. Their failure to secure their customer DNA data with MFA cost them a $30M fine they must pay [4]. My comment you replied to was attempting to communicate that, because the CEO holds most of the control over the company, it is preferable to let it slip into bankruptcy (where equity and their control will be wiped out) vs continuing allowing them the control they have, which is not leading to a favorable outcome for the enterprise. This is potentially superior to recapitalizing the existing enterprise and continuing to allow the CEO to light capital on fire. [1] https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-details/23andme-reports-third-quarter-fiscal-2024-financial-results https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-det... (draw your attention to quarterly burn rate and cash on hand) [2] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ME/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ME/ [3] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-10/struggling-23andme-granted-extension-to-revive-stock-price https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-10/strugglin... |https://archive.today/yTo01 https://archive.today/yTo01 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41536494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41536494
        2y ago
LeanderK 2y ago
what am I missing? Isn't this good news (the positive phase 2 results)?
- firejake308 2y ago
  Yes, but the CEO was trying to take those profits for herself by biding to take the company private, which the Board of Directors refused to put up with
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- maxerickson 2y ago
  The board is making it clear that they don't think the CEO/largest shareholder is making good on their duty (as CEO) to the other shareholders. "Good luck ......" or so.
- ilamont 2y ago
  Phase 2 is not a slam dunk. Much more work remains, and under the guidance of a CEO who has zero drug development experience and a track record of management incompetence: - lying about growth - pushing out the cofounder - never making a profit - hack that went undiscovered for months About the only area she's had success is raising money and that's in large part thanks to being a member of the Silicon Valley elite.
  - dekhn 2y ago
    you left out "ignored a letter from the FDA telling them to shut down"
  - gosub100 2y ago
    Could the hack have been part of the plan all along to depress the share price to make for a cheap buy-out?
  - LarsDu88 2y ago
    Mathematically, the chance of a drug going from phase 2 to phase 3 is roughly 30% This can be modeled with a binomial distribution as 1-probability of both failing. That comes out to 1-(.7^2) which is 51% of at least one drug reaching phase 3. There is literally a coin flip chance the company will reach the stage where there is another coin flip it will be worth billions (I believe ~50% of phase 3 drugs go to market), but thanks to the messaging of the CEO, right now it seems like there is a near 0% chance investors (which include former company employees) would benefit from this.
justinclift 2y ago
> Literally just one day after 23andMe presented positive phase 2 clinical results for two anti-cancer drugs ... That's not entirely correct. It was two days after. ;) • https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-details/23andme-therapeutics-announces-phase-2-results-two-additional https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-det... There's also this, on the same day: • https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-details/23andme-therapeutics-announces-positive-vivo-results-23me-01473 https://investors.23andme.com/news-releases/news-release-det...
- LarsDu88 2y ago
  I stand corrected. Well maybe the board took a day to get together and draft the letter. One of the board members Neal Mohan has to stand before a judge in Google's current anti-trust trial. No doubt he has no time for this stuff.
dyauspitr 2y ago
Why is she even the CEO? Was she placed there by Google once they bought 23andme?
- sanswork 2y ago
  She founded it
- akkartik 2y ago
  She's one of the original cofounders. Google never acquired it, only invested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23andMe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23andMe
- vlovich123 2y ago
  When did that happen? A founder was married to Sergei Brin for 8 years but that’s it.
- hackernewds 2y ago
  They haven't bought 23andme. but there is overlap, Anne was the former CEO of YouTube and wife of Sergey Brin
  - bluedevil2k 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      Which part is incorrect?
      - bluedevil2k 2y ago
        Anne was never CEO of YouTube
  - LarsDu88 2y ago
    Anne's sister Susan, who died a month ago of lung cancer was CEO of YouTube. Susan was the person who advocated Google acquire YouTube in the first place. Google was founded in the garage of Anne and Susan's childhood home. Anne was married to Sergei until he had an affair. One of the board members of 23andMe is Neal Mohan who is the current CEO of YouTube.
brookst 2y ago
To complete the data, the company is trading at $0.34/share, so while $0.40 is a bit lower than the typical 20% premium (~$0.41), I'm not sure it counts as "lowball". It's a typical premium over market cap. Is there any reason to think the company is worth $4.7B or whatever ($9.30/share)? If so the stock is a steal at its current price and we should all buy lots. But can the market be THAT wrong?
- austhrow743 2y ago
  My take on their comment was that it should be worth many billions if it was being run effectively but that it's not. That doesn't mean the market is wrong, it means the market thinks it will continue to be run ineffectively.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    if that is the case, isnt paying stockholders 20% over value a pretty good deal, and not a ripoff? It seems like there are contradictory facts being claimed: that the price to go private is a lowball, and that the current price is accurate.
    - austhrow743 2y ago
      If the one offering 20% over listed price is the one causing the listed price to be far more than 20% below what the company could be worth if they were running it properly, most people would consider that to be a ripoff.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        That seems like conspiracy thinking. The stockholders own part of the company with current management, not some hypothetical alternative. If they sell, they are selling a stake in the real company as it exists, not the alternate reality one. Think of a more relatable example. . A rental house with crazy tenants sells for less than a vacant one. If you buy or own a stake in a business that is controlled by poor managers, you are lucky to sell for a 20% premium.
hackernewds 2y ago
why are these companies worth so much, if not for sneakily monetizing and selling their user's most personal data?
- llm_nerd 2y ago
  The plan was always that DNA could be use for medical research, which is enormously valuable. And given that 23andme currently has a market cap 1/20th DJT (Trump Media & Technology Group Corp) -- a firm that makes less revenue than a variety store yet has huge losses -- I wouldn't really say it's "worth so much".
  - elictronic 2y ago
    I wouldn’t compare any stock to DJT. MAGA voters value signaling, institutional investors playing games, foreign governments laundering money to the campaign, primary shareholder prepping for exit. The companies actual revenue has zero impact and never will. Treat DJT like a NFT and it makes a ton of sense.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > wouldn’t compare any stock to DJT. MAGA voters value signaling, institutional investors playing games, foreign governments laundering money to the campaign, primary shareholder prepping for exit You’re right for the wrong reasons. (EDIT: I'm wrong for no reason.) Dow Jones is obsolete [1]. Its value is in its brand, i.e. other people look at it. The other factors you mention are noise. Relevant to a trader or market maker with infintessimal time horizons. But irrelevant to an investor thinking even in months. The American markets are simply too deep. The totality of dollars at work by MAGA voters, game-playing hedge funds and money launderers--through the stock market--is negligible. (Lots of political tea-leave reading funds have been attempted. Zero prevail.) [1] https://retirementresearcher.com/why-the-dow-doesnt-work/ https://retirementresearcher.com/why-the-dow-doesnt-work/
      - quickthrowman 2y ago
nextos 2y ago
Was the plan all the time to go B2B (drug development) and they just used B2C (selling SNP kits) to hoard samples? Even considering all FDA limitations, I cannot understand how bad their genetic risk scores are. They have talent, they have lots of customers and data. This is a position other companies, like deCODE, would have killed to be in.
- LarsDu88 2y ago
  If the board is resigning, and the company is selling DNA kits, running a telemedicine operation, selling pharmceuticals online AND developing cancer drugs at a 180 million dollar market cap... It's quite possible there was no plan at all...
  - AlbertCory 2y ago
    I saw Ann when she gave a talk at Google (that was when she was still married to Sergey). They had spit cups we could use if we wanted our DNA sequenced. I didn't. Their business plan was straight out of South Park: 1. Collect lots of DNA 2. ?????? 3. Profit!!
    - marcinzm 2y ago
      Isn't that the case for almost every single VC backed startup?
      - hennell 2y ago
        s/dna/data and you're pretty much any tech business.
  - burningChrome 2y ago
    >>> selling pharmceuticals online That would explain them selling 5 million users DNA information to GSK. Earlier this summer, the often-scrutinized at-home genetic testing company 23andMe sold genetic data from five million customers to the pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline (GSK). This surprised a lot of their customers who had forgotten that they consented to this when they signed up for the service. https://cglife.com/blog/23andme-sold-your-genetic-data-to-gsk-personalized-medicine-ethics/ https://cglife.com/blog/23andme-sold-your-genetic-data-to-gs...
zzleeper 2y ago
So sad that Blackstone bought ancestry.. newspapers.com is a really nice tool for researchers (and most things that get touched by PE end up enshittified)
- AlbertCory 2y ago
  I suppose I should know this: who owns newspapers.com? What's the connection?
  - LarsDu88 2y ago
    Ancestry owns newspapers.com A lot of Ancestry.com and AncestryDNA was founded to support the Mormon belief that the LDS church can posthumously baptize ancestors of living individuals into the church under the belief that many deceased individuals were not alive to hear the gospel of Joseph Smith. Thus the massive data collection effort for historical information like newpaper articles from this century and the last.
    - myth_drannon 2y ago
      I think they stopped doing it. Jewish organizations were absolutely livid once they found out they were baptizing Holocaust victims.
      - mulderc 2y ago
        It is a pretty important aspect of Latter Day Saint theology. They still do it but officially you can only baptize your own family members with the permission of surviving family members. These guidelines are not always followed. Additionally they have said they removed people from their rosters that were improperly baptized but the members I have talked with are skeptical and found it a bit laughable that the church removing a name from a database would somehow undo a sacred ritual.
        voganmother42 2y ago
bruceb 2y ago
Closest competitor does a lot of heavy lifting in this situation. Ancestry is the overwhelming leader in the find long lost relative space/your "roots" space. Look at https://www.ancestry.com/ https://www.ancestry.com/ and https://www.23andme.com/ https://www.23andme.com/ 23andme has basically given up on this part of the business. Their pitch is health. But that pitch is murky with no good hook to keep you hooked for a monthly subscription. So after they get the initial $99 from the customer, most of the value customer is going to get is already served up in the first report. Maybe their big database will turn into making cancer drugs but maybe it wont.
- yellowapple 2y ago
  > 23andme has basically given up on this part of the business. The routine emails I get about them allegedly finding new DNA relatives suggest otherwise. The DNA relatives feature is also still pretty prominent in their UI (at least on desktop browsers; haven't looked at the app yet). That said, it certainly doesn't offer much beyond "these are your relatives; send 'em some messages or something lol". Ancestry probably has a lot more features on that front, which is unsurprising since that's the sort of thing Ancestry was doing long before they even offered DNA sequencing kits like 23andMe does. I don't know if I'd characterize that as 23andMe "giving up", though; more that it's good enough for a product that never intended to enter the genealogy software market in the first place.
  - codedokode 2y ago
    I wonder, do the "relatives" know and agree that their information is sent to other person?
    - sitharus 2y ago
      …yes that’s how it works? You opt in and choose what you share. They’re quite explicit about it.
      - nnutter 2y ago
TheRealPomax 2y ago
"closest competitor" really doesn't mean anything here. That's like calling a failing burger joint in a random US city a "competitor of McDonalds". No they're not.
phonon 2y ago
So why doesn't Ancestry/Blackstone buy out 23andMe? Antitrust? Shareholder control issues?
- ac29 2y ago
  They are deeply unprofitable and always have been. Looking at FY24, they spent $4 for every $1 in revenue.
darby_nine 2y ago
> Feels like the main thing holding this company back is the CEO Use has also dropped, no? There's serious questions about long term revenue generation. Ancestry.com doesn't require selling your genetic code to collaborate on geneology.
edm0nd 2y ago
Anne Wojcicki is also the exwife of billionaire Google founder Sergey Brin. I have always felt as if 23andMe was just her pet lil project and it doesn't matter if its ever profitable or not.
zombiwoof 2y ago
Luck and being in the right place at the right time can’t make a CEO. Anne is a terrible CEO

jonstewart 2y ago

They also just settled a class-action lawsuit stemming from their data breach: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/23andme-to-pay-30-million-in-genetics-data-breach-settlement/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/23andme-to-pa...

hackernewds 2y ago
"data breach"
- justin_oaks 2y ago
  To those wondering why the quotes are given, I assume it's because no 23andMe system was compromised. The data was retrieved via credential stuffing, which is trying username/email and password combinations from other data breaches. It can be argued that 23andMe should have had stricter login requirements (e.g. require MFA, require longer passwords) and by failing to do so they were responsible for the leaked data. Or you can argue that the users didn't protect their own data since they didn't use long, secure passwords that were unique per website.
LarsDu88 2y ago
The settlement is way lower than what it could have been. The settlement should be seen as positive news for the company's future, not negative.
typeofhuman 2y ago
I think data-breaches could carry the death penalty for companies. I just got a notification from some health services company that my and my toddlers data was accessed. Including medical history, diagnoses, payment details, SSN, birthday. Why was this not encrypted? Given the world today, this is negligent. The government should be able to disolve the company and give the money to the victims. If there was a willful disregard for "common security and privacy standards", criminal charges against the executive team. You want my personal life data? It comes with steep personal risk.
- 2y ago

SoftTalker 2y ago

Zero chance I ever give my DNA to one of these companies.

mhsdef 2y ago
Did your relative? I'm not a geneticist so I could be totally off the mark; but, to my understanding, the painful part is that is a big disclosure right there
- dylan604 2y ago
  yeah, it's like the shadow profiles on social media sites. just because you didn't do it, doesn't mean that someone else doesn't
- HideousKojima 2y ago
  My oldest brother did so I'm already screwed
  - starfezzy 2y ago
    Can even one single person here articulate their specific fears of using 23andme, or is it all FUD?
    - zetsurin 2y ago
      Maybe too far fetched? Company sells/loses data, insurance companies use data to deny coverage, or deem claims as pre-existing.
      - peanutz454 2y ago
        Can an insurance company deny claim based on your DNA? They deny claims for pre-existing condition that you hid from the, which would be the wrong thing to do on your part. They cannot deny claim based on pre existing disposition. Practically everyone is predisposed for getting cancer by merely being human, you might even have cancerous cells in your body right now, that you body will destroy in a couple of minutes.

breck 2y ago

For the record, 23andme is one of the few companies where the CEO never once responded to one of my emails (2017, 2019, 2022, 2024). You can make a lot of money just by betting on companies where the CEO (or the CEO's office) takes listening to customers'(who are rooting for them!) emails seriously, and shorting those that do not.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
LarsDu88 2y ago
You cold e-mail CEOs and get a >70% hitrate? I gotta try this more often.
- breck 2y ago
  I do put try to make them a mix of feedback + entertainment. Example To: jeff@amazon.com subject: The Day the Music Died I was looking forward to playing my Yamaha Digital Piano that I ordered from Amazon today when I got home from work at "the country club". Instead I'm stuck tapping this UPS "Delivery Attempted" notice and the melodies just aren't coming through. ? In the last 6 months I ordered 37 packages from Amazon. I needed to be home for zero. Why didn't Amazon send me an email, phone call, text, message through Echo, notification through one of my four Amazon iPhone apps, or airdrop from a drone alerting me that I needed to be there for this package? I also have an Amazon Echo at home so Alexa should have an idea of my schedule and know that the odds of a successful delivery at 4:42pm on a weekday are 1%. Now I'm listening to Alexa play sad songs instead of belting out great new tunes on my Yamaha. Also, why didn't the UPS driver call or text me when he or she was at my building to ask if it was okay to leave the package? This would have saved them a minimum of 1 trip and I wouldn't have to bet the delivery of my $700 package to a half a cent sticky note stuck to my door being pelted by the Seattle rain. OK love ya bye -Breck
  - potsandpans 2y ago
    If this is representative of the quality of your emails, I would read every one that you published.

mensetmanusman 2y ago

“Nearly every baby born in the U.S. has blood drawn in the immediate hours after their birth, allowing the baby to be tested for a panel of potentially life-threatening inherited disorders. This is a vital public health program, enabling early treatment of newborns with genetic disorders; for them, it can be the difference between a healthy life and an early death. But recent news suggests that police are seeking access to these newborn blood samples in criminal investigations. Such use of this trove of genetic material — to hunt for evidence that could implicate a child’s relative in a crime — endangers public trust in this vital health program and threatens all Americans’ right to genetic privacy.” All of our new babies had heel stick blood drawn, won’t the government be the eventual competitor of 23 and me (since Americans don’t care too much about privacy). https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/police-are-using-newborn-genetic-screening https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/police-are-usin...

LarsDu88 2y ago
Not necessarily. Just because the government is collecting everyone's DNA doesn't mean they're gonna create a slick web app for showing you your ancestry results. That's like asking why the DMV isn't competing with Google for revenue...
CSMastermind 2y ago
My most radical political opinion is that we need a right to privacy enshrined in a constitutional amendment. And it needs to be robust enough to prevent the government from subpoenaing data collected by private companies.
- typeofhuman 2y ago
  The 4th Amendment should already do that.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - tikhonj 2y ago

hackernewds 2y ago

Why is this published on their Investor page, against the reigning CEO?

intunderflow 2y ago
It's mandatory that they have to disclose this
LarsDu88 2y ago
SEC regulations

gorgoiler 2y ago

[flagged]

WheatMillington 2y ago
I read the wording quite differently. I read a clearly exasperated board resigning in protest due to the intractable relationship with, the poor decision making of, the CEO. If an independent board is unable to effectively govern because of the actions of the CEO, resigning is the correct course of action, and investors have a right to know why.

wslh 2y ago

What is a good alternative to 23andMe that retain confidentiality, and is it enough to use/play with Python packages for genetics

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dangero 2y ago
Dante Labs
- gruez 2y ago
  I skimmed their website and it doesn't seem like they're promising any sort of confidentiality. Maybe there's something buried in their privacy policy, but you'd think that privacy would be a pretty big selling point?
neuroelectron 2y ago
Home lab
- teitoklien 2y ago
  DIY tips please on how to do it What do I need, centrifuges ?, Electrophoresis gel ?, X-RAY machines, Or hand held dna scanning devices like these : https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/01/pocket-sized-dna-reader-used-to-scan-entire-human-genome-sequence/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/01/pocket-sized-dna-rea... ?
  - fragmede 2y ago
    https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/12/24/sequencing-your-dna-with-a-usb-dongle-and-open-source-code/ https://stackoverflow.blog/2021/12/24/sequencing-your-dna-wi... ~$800 USB dongle (above article was published in 2021 and the price has gone down) plus consumables.
    - 2y ago

typeofhuman 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

marcell 2y ago

I used to work at 23andMe, AMA

j_bum 2y ago
What was your role?
- marcell 2y ago
  Software engineer
  - j_bum 2y ago
    Were you working in the bioinformatics pipeline?
    - marcell 2y ago
      Kind of, dev ops and big data
itake 2y ago
did the employees come out ok equity-wise from the spac merger?
- marcell 2y ago
  I did not, but that’s because I joined late and had a high strike price. I also turned down a second market offer to sell at around $15/share. Oops. Many people sold during internal private liquidity events, and they did well. If you joined early you did well.
- LarsDu88 2y ago
  Only the ones who cashed out on the private market before the company went public
- exttam40591 2y ago

dvh 2y ago

There is absolutely no reason for these companies to collect your PII whatsoever. You should go to nearest pharmacy and buy sterile swab, swab yourself and write long random number on it and send it. Once a month company publishes one giant zip with all the monthly result where you find your file by that random number you wrote.

ben_w 2y ago
> write long random number on it Human brains when generating 'random' numbers: https://xkcd.com/221/ https://xkcd.com/221/ > Once a month company publishes one giant zip with all the monthly result where you find your file by that random number you wrote. Given how much of our appearance is due to genetics, that's basically all the harm with none of the convenience.
- zahlman 2y ago
  >Human brains when generating 'random' numbers Fortunately, contemporary humans have access to computers, which can generate random numbers for them free of charge. >Given how much of our appearance is due to genetics, that's basically all the harm I can't fathom your concept of "harm"; and neither, I think, would any prospective customer of this service.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > I can't fathom your concept of "harm"; and neither, I think, would any prospective customer of this service. I'm fairly relaxed about my medical history, but it's really obvious to me that I'm weird in being relaxed. Despite my relaxed attitude, it's still fairly obvious that this lists every genetic condition*, which in turn obviously going to be relevant to any health insurance provider that isn't banned from using it. Monetary damages are one of the easiest ones to quantify, from what I hear. * even those that have not yet had the relevant genes discovered, because statistical methods need a larger population
  - gklitz 2y ago
    What? “I’m worried my genetic sequence will be leaked and abused” turns into “why not just have the company leak the genetic sequences of everyone every month” and you can’t see the harm? At this point we practically have a single search engine that’ll take you genetic sequence aa input and return your face, you entire family tree, your current job and address and what you do in your free time.

matrix87 2y ago

Something I just remembered about this company: after a data breach, they tried retroactively changing ToS to shield from lawsuits Frankly I find this lack of accountability utterly repulsive. Anything this leadership touches is poison to me > Through a mechanism called acceptance by silence or inaction, 23andMe stipulated that customers must explicitly tell the company they disagree with the new terms within 30 days of being notified of the changes or they will be locked into the terms automatically. > After the attack, hackers published around 1 million data points about users with Ashkenazi Jewish heritage and information about more than 300,000 users with Chinese heritage. https://www.axios.com/2023/12/07/23andme-terms-of-service-update-data-breach https://www.axios.com/2023/12/07/23andme-terms-of-service-up...

yard2010 2y ago

Bullshit translation: We quit. You didn't give us a real offer, so we're out. We still believe in the company, but you have too much control, so we're leaving to avoid a fight. We did our best, but it's time to go.

xbar 2y ago
I suspect it goes further. "You are a liar and we cannot further risk our reputations on your dishonesty."

cromulent 2y ago

Some background from Freakonomics a few months ago: https://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-23andme-going-under-update/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-is-23andme-going-under-...

luxpir 2y ago

A little trivia: since the recent 23andMe breach, the desci project genomesdao has launched a new service that allows 23andMe data exports to be imported into their platform. They then attract pharmaceuticals to make specific requests and share the profit from the requests. They'll explain it better on the site! They've been around since at least 2018, have won recognised innovation awards and is run by scientists, so not your typical crypto project. Disclaimer: 23andMe customer and genomesdao holder.

aanet 2y ago

This would make for a great case study in corporate governance. I hope someone is writing a book on _Corporate Governance in Silicon Valley_, and include stories from, say, 23andMe, OpenAI, WeWork, Uber, and tons more. I'd pay $$ to read 'em all in one place. /sarc

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]