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I know this might be an "unpopular opinion," but after working fully remote for three years, I found myself feeling really down. I felt like a prisoner in my ow

I know this might be an "unpopular opinion," but after working fully remote for three years, I found myself feeling really down. I felt like a prisoner in my own home. So, three months ago, I started a new job with an office that’s 45 minutes away, and I’ve been going in every day—and I couldn't be happier! I do have the option to work from home all days if I want, but honestly, I prefer going to the office. Now, I get to see people, move around more, and when I’m at home, it truly feels different from being at work. It’s been a game-changer for me.

alliao 2y ago
do you have family?
- longnt80 2y ago
  most likely they don't have
martinohansen 2y ago
One does not exclude the other. I work for a remote-only company but use a workspace almost every day. I get to chose my own “office” and the people in it, I also pick the commute I want, this one is just 5 minutes away.
ktzar 2y ago
I think you have touch on an interesting point here... When working remotely you really need to put an effort into keeping a healthy social life balance, otherwise you end up feeling exactly as you describe. It's easy for days to go on with no "change of landscape", and that can send anyone straight to depression.
- brightball 2y ago
  Yea, I’ve been working remote for 12 years and that was the first thing I had to solve. There’s a local tech Slack in my area that I keep up and I have a text group that I’ve built up over the years that sometimes grabs lunch or hits the gym. Keeps me balanced.
- philote 2y ago
  I think employers with remote employees can also do a better job in many cases with getting people to socialize. It's definitely easier to socialize when in the office, but several remote jobs I've had didn't really do much for this even though everyone was remote. I feel managers of remote employees need to do more online social events, have a water cooler chat, etc. in order to get team members to talk to each other. I'm currently on a team that doesn't do this well, and it's very isolating to barely know and talk to your teammates.
- flkiwi 2y ago
  "It's easy for days to go on with no 'change of landscape', and that can send anyone straight to depression." Counterpoint: That's an exact description of how I felt working in an office.
tikkabhuna 2y ago
I think its having the option and being able to choose. I like going into the office. I talk to people I wouldn't normally reach out to. But I also like being able to be home for deliveries and I know my friends with kids would struggle without it. I also like the commute. I get in early to miss the rush. I end up walking more. I have the ability to switch from work to home on the way back. After work drinks also help. That's all based on one 30 minute train that is extremely reliable, air conditioned, and getting a seat. I couldn't do it if I had to drive or take 3+ trains.
- vladvasiliu 2y ago
  I think the main point is flexibility. And that's why many people on both sides of the issue (those with a hard preference for WFH as well as those for RTO) tend to break out the pitchforks: every decision from up high seems to strongly favor either position. Maybe there are many companies who do allow for flexibility, in which case everybody is happy, so you don't hear about them, since they have better things to do than "not-complain" about their situation. I'm lucky to work for such a company, and the main issue of discussion these days is whether we like or not the new office decoration. Managers are free to decide how often their teams have to come in, and, from what I hear, their underlings did have their word to say. Some people like coming in often, others less so. But basically, it all depends on who you're working with right now, and whether it makes sense to meet in person. This seems to work great for pretty much everybody.
netsharc 2y ago
Sheesh, why should it be unpopular. It's called having a preference/choice. Companies telling everyone to be in the office 5 days a week 9-5 (or whatever) is removing that choice. Some like you may not mind, but for others it might be hell...
- ljm 2y ago
  totally depends on the job, team, and culture as well I think. I thought I'd enjoy going back to the office, until 5 days a week was enforced and I was frequently getting interrupted. As another commenter said, nurturing a social life is more difficult when working from home, you have to be deliberate about it. I felt the office just made it more convenient to hang out, but it never really happened because I was too burned out by the work.
  - vladvasiliu 2y ago
    > As another commenter said, nurturing a social life is more difficult when working from home If you're happy with token interactions, sure. Your colleagues are right there (even talking to you while you try to work!). But IME, and from what I hear others say on HN and elsewhere, those aren't really "friends". The relationships are very superficial. How many of these people would help you move? With how many do you keep in contact when one of you changes jobs? I know exceptions exist, but those seem to be rather rare. So, if you actually want a deeper relationship, you still have to look for it deliberately. Only now, you have even less time to do it, since you're stuck in the office for 8 hours a day and possibly a few more depending on your commute. Whereas if you're at home, if it's not practical to go have lunch with a buddy or something, at least you can deal with some of your chores that can be time-consuming, while not requiring you to interact with them continuously, like laundry, waiting for a delivery, slow cooking something, etc.
    - devjab 2y ago
      I think it’s a little condescending to call them token interactions. They can be, but they also don’t have to be. I’ve worked in teams which were like little families while they lasted. I’ve had co-workers become real friends whom I still see many years after we stopped being co-workers. I’ve also had co-workers who were token interactions at best. I think it completely depends on who you are as a person, and also who you work with. Even if you don’t become life long friends you can easily have valuable social interactions with co-workers. Just like you can grow apart from friends. It’s all depending on the situation, and most often on you. At least in my experience. 5 days on office places are silly in my book. They’ll lose anyone talented enough to get another job. I’m an in office person for the most part, but if you take away my flexibility I’m frankly just going to work for someone who gives it back to me. Why wouldn’t I want the ability to work from home when I need to pick up the kids early or similar? In my experience the best of both worlds is when you let people work where they want but try to staff your teams with half of each preference or with people in between and then label certain days as preferred in-office days. Notice how I said preferred and not enforced. I my teams it has usually developed sort of naturally, often depending on what is for lunch.
longnt80 2y ago
> get to see people > move around more > feels different from being at work I'm not sure why one couldn't do this working remotely? Maybe these people can only socialise through work? Being passive about getting out of the house? Unable to create boundaries between work and personal life? Working "remote" doesn't mean one has to stay at home all the time. We all have laptops and can go any where to work.
- dlisboa 2y ago
  While I prefer remote it’s undeniable the vast majority of an adult’s socializing is done at work. Can you do it outside of it? Maybe, but probably not. Most of your friends will also work or they’ll have families and not be able to come out often. Unless you have dozens of friends already the likelihood is you’ll often be alone after work. Thankfully I’ve made my friends and have a family but if I was just starting out I don’t think I’d even have met the people that are close to me. My friends are mostly from work or work friends of my college friends. People often say to that “just get hobbies”. Well, hobbies are often done with friends or are introduced to by friends.
  - consteval 2y ago
    People are right, you should just get hobbies. I think this WFH epidemic was an opportunity to enlighten a lot of people. There are many, many people (myself included), who were husks of human beings. Alive, technically, but not living. We work, we eat, we sleep. We had money, but at the end of the day we were losers. I knew this to be the case when I realized what I looked forward to what dinner. Eating a meal was the highlight of my day, and the highlight of every day. And then the weekends I stayed in, exhausted from work. When people lost the office, it was an opportunity for them to realize they had absolutely no life. No friends, no socialization, no passions, no desires. Some realized that and took control of their life, and others took offense to that realization and demanded the office back. It was very much a matrix red pill versus blue pill situation. Live in lalaland on autopilot? It's tempting.
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    >People often say to that “just get hobbies”. Well, hobbies are often done with friends or are introduced to by friends. Not even close. Hobbies are done in groups, which can be stood up in your local area. This shit was figured out in the 1700s FFS, with no internet, with no online message boards to coordinate preferences, with no real choice in WHO they interacted with. We invented "third places" like coffee shops, where average people could show up, buy a coffee, and chat with literal strangers, where you would often get into discussions about philosophy, politics, this newfangled "science" stuff, and all sorts of topics, usually involving people guessing about things they didn't even have a right answer to. But that didn't matter because the point was to interact with strangers. The scientific method was literally a bunch of wealthy people exploring a brand new hobby by finding each other in "journals" (basically hobby magazines), sending each other snail mail, and chatting about their different experiments. Companies have decided they can just stop supporting an open environment, and charge you for the right to exist, and now we don't have a third place in the US, because nobody has the time or money or energy to socialize after work, because work takes so goddamned much out of us. So no, please do not force me, who has a perfectly functional social life and several great friend groups for life, just because you don't know any other way to meet people. That's not my problem and forcing me into the office so you can take advantage of the requirement that I am there to socialize with me is not an okay solution. Work doesn't pay me to be your friend.
kalleboo 2y ago
I also get depressed being in my home all day every day which is why I go to coworking spaces, cafes and parks. There is endless variation that still doesn’t have to chained to a certain commute.
- ThatMedicIsASpy 2y ago
  Reset. Start work with a 30m walk 'going to work' and end it with a 30m walk. Free one hour exercise when you sit/stand all day.
  - blindluck 2y ago
    Grab a local dog or two and you have a side hussle or at least can help a neighbor
croes 2y ago
The point is having a choice
wkat4242 2y ago
It's not a matter of popularity. Some people need the interaction. Others like me hate it. This is why making it flexible is so great. You could be in the office with other people who enjoy it, while people like me don't have to. Even before the pandemic I would often hang at the office until 10pm because I could only get work done after the others left. I would get so stressed from all the distractions around me.
- lazide 2y ago
  The issue is that folks like newbies on the team end up left out, and when everyone is off doing their own thing there is often no actual team - which shows up in a lot of non-obvious ways.
  - cebert 2y ago
    Nothing prevents them from making meetings to connect with / meet their peers. When you work remotely, you need to change your habits a bit. You have the same type of interactions, it just takes some initiative.
    - lazide 2y ago
      Sure, but sitting next to someone and being able to ask them questions is easy, quick, and natural. And often helps build relationships. As is sitting in an area and seeing who everyone goes to ask questions, and even overhearing the discussions. So someone can learn how to phrase questions, what are useful types of questions to ask, what types of questions get someone told to ‘do their own research’ vs gets in-depth help, etc. For a junior, that is very valuable because they often literally don’t even know where to start. For someone with more experience, they often either already know all these things, or know how to find them out pretty quickly even without the help of watching what is happening, yeah?
  - SamoyedFurFluff 2y ago
    That’s a fault of the existing teammates. I always prioritize 1:1 with new members in my team or my sister teams and make myself available for any onboarding or technical questions.
highcountess 2y ago
[flagged]
- sensanaty 2y ago
  I find it crazy that this isn't the case in the US every time I see this topic come up. You always hear about all the benefits of working for a FAANG, but they're too cheap to even cover cost of transport? In the Netherlands, and probably a lot of other EU countries, transport to work has to be compensated by your employer. If you live within biking distance this means providing you a bike (usually via a service like Swapfiets these days), and otherwise you get your train/public transport costs or fuel costs if you drive a car completely covered. It's even tax-deductible I think, though I've never bothered looking into that option since I just take my own bike to work.
  - lazide 2y ago
    It’s all relative. FAANGs have been very high compensation (and good work environments) by US standards, and frankly in comparison to most global standards. But they aren’t perfect, and they’ve been good relative to other employers. Having transportation covered is an extremely rare benefit in the US.
  - ptero 2y ago
    I am pretty sure the poster you reply to talks about time not money. Most tech companies compensate for costs. My current employer doesn't blink paying ~$60 per day for my parking and lunch on days I come to the office, but that still means I spend 50 min each way getting there. My 2c.
  - screcth 2y ago
    FAANG pays very well, and money can be exchanged for goods and services. I know that having benefits like a free bike feels good, but the total compensation you are getting is much lower than that of people that work for big tech and pay for their own transportation.
    - 2y ago
rlpb 2y ago
I understand the need for human contact and to get out of the house. But you can achieve that working "from home", too, albeit with some consideration for confidentiality requirements[1]. Usually the place you must work from isn't defined. I work "from home", but once a week I work in the same room as a bunch of locals who also work from home. A few advantages: 1) you have a wider pool of people to choose to co-work with, since they can have other employers, too; 2) you can choose who you want to co-work with; 3) you get to (mostly) choose which and how many hours you wish to co-work; 4) no stress about being late due to a commute or childcare commitments, since co-working hours are optional. [1] I deliberately arrange to work on things that aren't confidential on co-working days.
mrweasel 2y ago
> I know this might be an "unpopular opinion," It should not be. I work from home 100% now, but feeling alone is a very real issue for many of us. I have friends I talk to during the day via IRC or one the phone, regular chats and video calls with colleagues and managers, family is right around the corner and I try to get out every day and talk to people. For some the isolation is wonderful. For others, like me, it's amazing for doing focused work, but I also need people in my life. For some problem arises when their sole social circle is people they work with. If you struggle to talk to people you don't know then coworkers quickly be an "outlet" for socializing.
- fhd2 2y ago
  I've been working primarily from home for 12 years now, and I can absolutely understand these feelings. I don't think I'd enjoy it at all if I didn't have so much family and loved ones around, just sitting in an apartment all day by myself. What interaction you have with co workers with so much fewer social cues can hurt more than it helps, really. I'll bet you many managers in favour of RTO feel exactly like this when they work from home, and base their decisions on the way they feel.
- seadan83 2y ago
  In office is a mixed bag. Sometimes there are genuine people there who could become true friends. On the other hand, there are those that talk through their smiles. The two are sometimes indistinguishable and it can be hard to determine whether those office relationships were hollow or not. In a best case, they are not hollow. In a worst case, you think you have a support network and friends and don't spend as much effort to find genuine community connection. Then when it comes time to leave, or change team - the relationship evaporates leaving you worse off than before (still isolated, but now also older and missed opportunity). It is a spectrum, true friends I believe are somewhat rare in the workplace. Another dimension to that spectrum is a development of a working cohort. Essentially a half dozen people or more that hire each other at new jobs and move together from company to company. A true best case there us to meet a potential co-founder. Though, I have had a remote colleague whome we spent days on video calls together working on a problem. I am not sure remote is in-office is actually mutually exclusive. The people willing to spend 5 hours on a call peer coding with you might be the same that you actually become friends with in office
ekianjo 2y ago
if you want to see people you can work in a coworking space near where you live without the commute. I dont understand people who want to commute more than one hour a day if they have the choice not to. And even more so if you consider the environmental impact and all the stress that goes with it.
- bluedino 2y ago
  Co-working spaces aren't everywhere, and the people there aren't your co-workers so it's really not the same relationship.
bmitc 2y ago
I experience that as well. But the way I see to combat it is that working from home gives me more energy to go out on my own terms like taking classes, volunteering, etc.
jon-wood 2y ago
I think this is completely fine. Some people like working remotely, other people don't. I fully expect to see a gradual trend of companies going on way or the other over time, because hybrid really is the worst of both worlds with nobody really being happy.
blindluck 2y ago
> option Popular > Amazon tells Sucks
Malcolmlisk 2y ago
I have a 100% remote job. But my team have decided to go at least every tuesday to the office. We are not obligued, but almost everyone comes to the office once a week just to socialize and talk about our projects and sometimes even to take a beer or two after work. To me, feels super refreshing to talk to people when Im at the office, and to be fair Im much much less productive in the office. But makes me appreciate when Im at home and when I dont need to be in the car for 1 to arrive my home, take everything and go to the gym. It feels like, going from time to time to the office when almost everyone is there, gives to the remote working more sense and value. And viceversa.
- Sebb767 2y ago
  I work in a similar setup, but we only have 2 office days a month. I still like this very much; you get to meet and socialize with all your colleagues, but you have basically all the advantages of home office and traveling for two days a month is easy.
- htrp 2y ago
  "There are wealthy gentlemen in England who drive four-horse passenger-coaches twenty or thirty miles on a daily line in the summer because the privilege costs them considerable money; but if they were offered wages for the service, that would turn it into work, and then they would resign." -- Mark Twain You can come in every so often (weekly) without issue (or by choice). When you're forced to come in every day, that becomes different.
Meganet 2y ago
I also enjoy the office when i'm there. My problem is that i really hate flex desks and now you don't get your own office anymore. But my problem is more with my home: I'm now buying a farm and i don't think it will feel the same way as it does at my flat. Its surprisingly hard to 'get out' to not feel annoyed by my flat. But i don't have a good outdoor view only a small window and i do not have a extra office space.
bluedino 2y ago
At first I enjoyed going into the office a day or two a week...but nobody else goes in, and it's even weirder being in a giant office building with just a couple people on each floor than it is staying at home.
joshsyn 2y ago
[dead]
m3kw9 2y ago
human nature in action, you have a nice thing for so long, you'd get bored of it
ghostpepper 2y ago
I also enjoy a certain level of in-office face to face interaction but 90 minutes by car per day would be too much for me.
ChumpGPT 2y ago
It's probably because you don't have much to do outside of work and that is where you get your only human interaction. People who have families and friends typically do better in a remote environment.
marricks 2y ago
I went remote a few years before Covid and I felt a bit isolated, but then I realized I had too much of my social life tied up in my job. Having hobbies and interests outside of work is so much better for my mental health and I wouldn’t swap it for anything, especially a 40 min commute. I also wouldn’t force anyone to go back to office so I could see the humm of their work. If you need that there’s co working spaces for that reason, or places which have in office options. Large companies mandating everyone work in office is purely a flex for control and probably to save their property investments.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  > Large companies mandating everyone work in office is purely a flex for control and probably to save their property investments. It's a hidden layoff.
  - big_jimmer 2y ago
    Bingo
  - deweller 2y ago
    As a layoff strategy, I would expect it to be counterproductive. The people most likely to quit skew toward high-performing individuals who feel confident in their ability to get a remote job elsewhere. And vice versa.
    - nickpp 2y ago
      Sample of one, but around me best engineers came back to work soon after Covid ended, show up every day, communicate and collaborate. The less productive are the ones dragging their feet, coming up with excuses to stay home and hide as much as possible from peer scrutiny. Almost like best engineers enjoy coming and working with the team, while the worst dread it.
      - marricks 2y ago
        I’m sure the ones who love to suck up and don’t have a social life were chomping at the bit to come back, no doubt.
michaelcampbell 2y ago
So in office is better for you. What irks so many of us is that companies point to people like you and mandate EVERYONE be like that, because the C suite, whose entire lives and career have been built around having people around them assumes or decries that everyone either is, or should be, like them. Or worse, the middle management is given authority to give these mandates, and are in their highest level of incompetence and use it as a "power move".
Wheaties466 2y ago
you're not alone in this. I thought i would love WFH but it turns out I need some social interaction even though i dread it.
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  But this is not an acceptable reason to chain people like me, who have functional social lives, to your needs. You need social interaction, so go out and get social interaction. I don't. So why should employment cater to you rather than me?
RIMR 2y ago
There is a nice feeling that can come from having a new job, but if I suddenly had to be on the road 7-8 hours a week, I would find that very stressful.
mrsilencedogood 2y ago
The whole "us vs them" being manufactured in "remote vs onsite" is really suspicious to me. I have never actually heard from a single person who wanted to force remote people in, or a remote person who wanted to force onsite people out of the office. It feels like the owner class is trying to build a fox-and-the-grapes narratives around the people they've forcibly RTO'd to try to get some kind of grassroots-shaped support for their forced RTO policies. It's all about choice. I have 3 young kids. The youngest will be in school next year. At that point, I may find myself actually going to a coworking space from time to time (and if my company had an office near me, I'd go into that sometimes). I certainly don't mind the amenities and the company of my coworkers (all 2 of them that are actually physically located within a 4-hour-drive radius of me). But for right now, being able to be full-time remote with a fully flexibly work schedule is ridiculously important and useful to me. My wife has a dentist appointment? I can sit here in the basement and pull up the kid's camera while he naps and she can just go. I can eat lunch with my kid. I can do morning drop-off when my wife needs a break from the morning kid-prep grind. It's absolutely vital and our lives would've been a mess the last 4 years without it. Plus, besides the work-lifestyle thing, there's a question of equality of opportunity. As you can probably guess based on my above remarks, I live in BFE (five generations of my family live here, so I can't leave) and there's literally nothing that San Francisco-type SWE's would recognize as a "tech job" until you get up to Lake Michigan. My options, were I to work locally, would be to work in a place that specializes in government/enterprise contracting and "staff augmentation". If your nose is wrinkling and your brow furrowing upon reading that phrase, yes that's the correct facial expression to be making. And yes it pays what you'd expect. But thanks to remote work, I'm working for a startup and actually getting to program an actual software product and engage with its product development and all that.
- Phrodo_00 2y ago
  > I have never actually heard from a single person who wanted to force remote people in I have. lots of people get a lot of their social interaction from work.
  - youngNed 2y ago
    An englishman, a scotsman and an irishman are marooned on a desert island. Afer a long year one of them finds a lamp, and when cleaning it up a genie appears. The genie offers them one wish each The Irishman says 'sure i'd give anything to be back in galway, stuck in a snug, with a pint of porter' and <poof> he's gone. The scotsman is amazed and roars 'take me back tae glasgae!' and in a similar puff of smoke is gone. The englishman, looks around and says 'I say, its going to be awfully lonely around here without those chaps around, can you bring them back please?'
yoyohello13 2y ago
90 min commute time is insane to me. That is a massive amount of time to give to your company for free. If companies want people to come back to the office, they should pay for commute time.
torginus 2y ago
Imagine working all your life, and your crowning achievement being: - buying a house you never see the inside of while the sun is up - buying a car whose purpose is making the two hours every day you spend commuting a bit less miserable
indoordin0saur 2y ago
It really depends on your commute. For me I take a 20 minute subway ride but could also choose an hour walk or a 30 minute bike ride. I definitely prefer my situation to working from home 5 days a week. But if I were driving an hour in traffic I'm sure I'd prefer to be remote.
zellyn 2y ago
I'm lucky in that my company closed the office far from me, and consolidated on an office about 15 minutes' drive / 25 minutes' bike ride from my house. Now, when I weigh 30 minutes of commute versus being cooped up in the same room I was in for the whole pandemic and almost lost my mind, it's easy: office whenever I can. That said, I'd be very loathe to _have_ to come in to the office. There are whole weeks where it just doesn't work out logistically, and it's nice to be able to work from home.
w0m 2y ago
It's legit. Fully Remote can be seriously isolating/depressing. Hybrid is probably the ideal; but even so I live 15m from the office and when I go in it's empty 90% of the time anyway. I don't know if I'd take a 45m commute until the kids can get themselves home from school (daily pickup/dropoff) - but I do miss 2h beer lunches on a Tuesday after closing a ticket to blow off stress.
jhbadger 2y ago
Before the pandemic it used to be commonly believed that even remote work shouldn't be done at home and you used to see coffee shops filled with people on laptops (and frustrating people who just wanted a table to drink their coffee and eat a pastry). Obviously during the pandemic we got used to working from home but as you say a big downside is that it removes all distinction between your work and home environment.
RHSeeger 2y ago
> I know this might be an "unpopular opinion," That's the thing, though; it's important to remember that it very much _is_ an opinion/preference. For some people, working from the office is better, for others, it's working from home, and for others it's a combination of both. There are positives and negatives to each, for both the employee and the employer. That being said, a company limiting itself to _only_ people willing to work in the office is doing just that; limiting itself. I expect the reverse is also true; but the pool of workers to choose from for "everyone remote" is a _LOT_ bigger than the pool of workers for "everyone in the office".
mihaaly 2y ago
This is nice! When everyone can choose what work best for them! We are not the same - and face to face meetings have their huge benefits from time to time anyway. Except for those poor souls working for Amazon.
nswest23 2y ago
huh. it's almost like there isn't a one size fits all solution and people should have options that fit their lifestyle.
collyw 2y ago
Same. I can't stand working in my home office at this stage. Somethings are easier when you don't have the distraction of a busy office, but many things are a lot easier / more efficient. On-boarding new staff is so much better in person. Similarly, in the old days when I had jobs where I was expected to wear a shirt and dress reasonably smart to the office, I enjoyed getting changed into other clothes afterwards. It marked a real change between work and personal time. That gets very blurred with working from home.
- dagw 2y ago
  It marked a real change between work and personal time. That gets very blurred with working from home. I actually try to dress 'properly' even when working from home. I know most people find it silly, but I feel I work better when wearing 'work' clothes.
sqren 2y ago
@kwanbix: do you have kids? I feel that's one of the primary deciding factors for working from home. People without kids are much more flexible with their time, whereas people with (small) kids are severely more limited. Freeing up commute time and being able to do small chores like starting the washing machine creates significant happiness, which totally offsets the downsides of not seeing your co-workers (that) often. Before kids I would also become depressed if I worked remotely full time. But today my "alone time" is already pretty much gone outside work hours so I don't mind being by myself during the day.
ryukoposting 2y ago
The upvote brigade might disagree, but I certainly didn't mean my comment to yuck anyone's yum. If you want to commute, go for it! It's a free country and all that. I did feel somewhat isolated when I first started working remote. I also moved to a new city at the same time, and I didn't have much to do... besides work. I had to force myself out into the world a bit, and it got a lot better. It helps that I found myself in a community where I could easily find things that I found appealing.

alliao 2y ago

do you have family?

longnt80 2y ago
most likely they don't have

martinohansen 2y ago

One does not exclude the other. I work for a remote-only company but use a workspace almost every day. I get to chose my own “office” and the people in it, I also pick the commute I want, this one is just 5 minutes away.

ktzar 2y ago

I think you have touch on an interesting point here... When working remotely you really need to put an effort into keeping a healthy social life balance, otherwise you end up feeling exactly as you describe. It's easy for days to go on with no "change of landscape", and that can send anyone straight to depression.

brightball 2y ago
Yea, I’ve been working remote for 12 years and that was the first thing I had to solve. There’s a local tech Slack in my area that I keep up and I have a text group that I’ve built up over the years that sometimes grabs lunch or hits the gym. Keeps me balanced.
philote 2y ago
I think employers with remote employees can also do a better job in many cases with getting people to socialize. It's definitely easier to socialize when in the office, but several remote jobs I've had didn't really do much for this even though everyone was remote. I feel managers of remote employees need to do more online social events, have a water cooler chat, etc. in order to get team members to talk to each other. I'm currently on a team that doesn't do this well, and it's very isolating to barely know and talk to your teammates.
flkiwi 2y ago
"It's easy for days to go on with no 'change of landscape', and that can send anyone straight to depression." Counterpoint: That's an exact description of how I felt working in an office.

tikkabhuna 2y ago

I think its having the option and being able to choose. I like going into the office. I talk to people I wouldn't normally reach out to. But I also like being able to be home for deliveries and I know my friends with kids would struggle without it. I also like the commute. I get in early to miss the rush. I end up walking more. I have the ability to switch from work to home on the way back. After work drinks also help. That's all based on one 30 minute train that is extremely reliable, air conditioned, and getting a seat. I couldn't do it if I had to drive or take 3+ trains.

vladvasiliu 2y ago
I think the main point is flexibility. And that's why many people on both sides of the issue (those with a hard preference for WFH as well as those for RTO) tend to break out the pitchforks: every decision from up high seems to strongly favor either position. Maybe there are many companies who do allow for flexibility, in which case everybody is happy, so you don't hear about them, since they have better things to do than "not-complain" about their situation. I'm lucky to work for such a company, and the main issue of discussion these days is whether we like or not the new office decoration. Managers are free to decide how often their teams have to come in, and, from what I hear, their underlings did have their word to say. Some people like coming in often, others less so. But basically, it all depends on who you're working with right now, and whether it makes sense to meet in person. This seems to work great for pretty much everybody.

netsharc 2y ago

Sheesh, why should it be unpopular. It's called having a preference/choice. Companies telling everyone to be in the office 5 days a week 9-5 (or whatever) is removing that choice. Some like you may not mind, but for others it might be hell...

ljm 2y ago
totally depends on the job, team, and culture as well I think. I thought I'd enjoy going back to the office, until 5 days a week was enforced and I was frequently getting interrupted. As another commenter said, nurturing a social life is more difficult when working from home, you have to be deliberate about it. I felt the office just made it more convenient to hang out, but it never really happened because I was too burned out by the work.
- vladvasiliu 2y ago
  > As another commenter said, nurturing a social life is more difficult when working from home If you're happy with token interactions, sure. Your colleagues are right there (even talking to you while you try to work!). But IME, and from what I hear others say on HN and elsewhere, those aren't really "friends". The relationships are very superficial. How many of these people would help you move? With how many do you keep in contact when one of you changes jobs? I know exceptions exist, but those seem to be rather rare. So, if you actually want a deeper relationship, you still have to look for it deliberately. Only now, you have even less time to do it, since you're stuck in the office for 8 hours a day and possibly a few more depending on your commute. Whereas if you're at home, if it's not practical to go have lunch with a buddy or something, at least you can deal with some of your chores that can be time-consuming, while not requiring you to interact with them continuously, like laundry, waiting for a delivery, slow cooking something, etc.
  - devjab 2y ago
    I think it’s a little condescending to call them token interactions. They can be, but they also don’t have to be. I’ve worked in teams which were like little families while they lasted. I’ve had co-workers become real friends whom I still see many years after we stopped being co-workers. I’ve also had co-workers who were token interactions at best. I think it completely depends on who you are as a person, and also who you work with. Even if you don’t become life long friends you can easily have valuable social interactions with co-workers. Just like you can grow apart from friends. It’s all depending on the situation, and most often on you. At least in my experience. 5 days on office places are silly in my book. They’ll lose anyone talented enough to get another job. I’m an in office person for the most part, but if you take away my flexibility I’m frankly just going to work for someone who gives it back to me. Why wouldn’t I want the ability to work from home when I need to pick up the kids early or similar? In my experience the best of both worlds is when you let people work where they want but try to staff your teams with half of each preference or with people in between and then label certain days as preferred in-office days. Notice how I said preferred and not enforced. I my teams it has usually developed sort of naturally, often depending on what is for lunch.

longnt80 2y ago

> get to see people > move around more > feels different from being at work I'm not sure why one couldn't do this working remotely? Maybe these people can only socialise through work? Being passive about getting out of the house? Unable to create boundaries between work and personal life? Working "remote" doesn't mean one has to stay at home all the time. We all have laptops and can go any where to work.

dlisboa 2y ago
While I prefer remote it’s undeniable the vast majority of an adult’s socializing is done at work. Can you do it outside of it? Maybe, but probably not. Most of your friends will also work or they’ll have families and not be able to come out often. Unless you have dozens of friends already the likelihood is you’ll often be alone after work. Thankfully I’ve made my friends and have a family but if I was just starting out I don’t think I’d even have met the people that are close to me. My friends are mostly from work or work friends of my college friends. People often say to that “just get hobbies”. Well, hobbies are often done with friends or are introduced to by friends.
- consteval 2y ago
  People are right, you should just get hobbies. I think this WFH epidemic was an opportunity to enlighten a lot of people. There are many, many people (myself included), who were husks of human beings. Alive, technically, but not living. We work, we eat, we sleep. We had money, but at the end of the day we were losers. I knew this to be the case when I realized what I looked forward to what dinner. Eating a meal was the highlight of my day, and the highlight of every day. And then the weekends I stayed in, exhausted from work. When people lost the office, it was an opportunity for them to realize they had absolutely no life. No friends, no socialization, no passions, no desires. Some realized that and took control of their life, and others took offense to that realization and demanded the office back. It was very much a matrix red pill versus blue pill situation. Live in lalaland on autopilot? It's tempting.
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  >People often say to that “just get hobbies”. Well, hobbies are often done with friends or are introduced to by friends. Not even close. Hobbies are done in groups, which can be stood up in your local area. This shit was figured out in the 1700s FFS, with no internet, with no online message boards to coordinate preferences, with no real choice in WHO they interacted with. We invented "third places" like coffee shops, where average people could show up, buy a coffee, and chat with literal strangers, where you would often get into discussions about philosophy, politics, this newfangled "science" stuff, and all sorts of topics, usually involving people guessing about things they didn't even have a right answer to. But that didn't matter because the point was to interact with strangers. The scientific method was literally a bunch of wealthy people exploring a brand new hobby by finding each other in "journals" (basically hobby magazines), sending each other snail mail, and chatting about their different experiments. Companies have decided they can just stop supporting an open environment, and charge you for the right to exist, and now we don't have a third place in the US, because nobody has the time or money or energy to socialize after work, because work takes so goddamned much out of us. So no, please do not force me, who has a perfectly functional social life and several great friend groups for life, just because you don't know any other way to meet people. That's not my problem and forcing me into the office so you can take advantage of the requirement that I am there to socialize with me is not an okay solution. Work doesn't pay me to be your friend.

kalleboo 2y ago

I also get depressed being in my home all day every day which is why I go to coworking spaces, cafes and parks. There is endless variation that still doesn’t have to chained to a certain commute.

ThatMedicIsASpy 2y ago
Reset. Start work with a 30m walk 'going to work' and end it with a 30m walk. Free one hour exercise when you sit/stand all day.
- blindluck 2y ago
  Grab a local dog or two and you have a side hussle or at least can help a neighbor

croes 2y ago

The point is having a choice

wkat4242 2y ago

It's not a matter of popularity. Some people need the interaction. Others like me hate it. This is why making it flexible is so great. You could be in the office with other people who enjoy it, while people like me don't have to. Even before the pandemic I would often hang at the office until 10pm because I could only get work done after the others left. I would get so stressed from all the distractions around me.

lazide 2y ago
The issue is that folks like newbies on the team end up left out, and when everyone is off doing their own thing there is often no actual team - which shows up in a lot of non-obvious ways.
- cebert 2y ago
  Nothing prevents them from making meetings to connect with / meet their peers. When you work remotely, you need to change your habits a bit. You have the same type of interactions, it just takes some initiative.
  - lazide 2y ago
    Sure, but sitting next to someone and being able to ask them questions is easy, quick, and natural. And often helps build relationships. As is sitting in an area and seeing who everyone goes to ask questions, and even overhearing the discussions. So someone can learn how to phrase questions, what are useful types of questions to ask, what types of questions get someone told to ‘do their own research’ vs gets in-depth help, etc. For a junior, that is very valuable because they often literally don’t even know where to start. For someone with more experience, they often either already know all these things, or know how to find them out pretty quickly even without the help of watching what is happening, yeah?
- SamoyedFurFluff 2y ago
  That’s a fault of the existing teammates. I always prioritize 1:1 with new members in my team or my sister teams and make myself available for any onboarding or technical questions.

highcountess 2y ago

[flagged]

sensanaty 2y ago
I find it crazy that this isn't the case in the US every time I see this topic come up. You always hear about all the benefits of working for a FAANG, but they're too cheap to even cover cost of transport? In the Netherlands, and probably a lot of other EU countries, transport to work has to be compensated by your employer. If you live within biking distance this means providing you a bike (usually via a service like Swapfiets these days), and otherwise you get your train/public transport costs or fuel costs if you drive a car completely covered. It's even tax-deductible I think, though I've never bothered looking into that option since I just take my own bike to work.
- lazide 2y ago
  It’s all relative. FAANGs have been very high compensation (and good work environments) by US standards, and frankly in comparison to most global standards. But they aren’t perfect, and they’ve been good relative to other employers. Having transportation covered is an extremely rare benefit in the US.
- ptero 2y ago
  I am pretty sure the poster you reply to talks about time not money. Most tech companies compensate for costs. My current employer doesn't blink paying ~$60 per day for my parking and lunch on days I come to the office, but that still means I spend 50 min each way getting there. My 2c.
- screcth 2y ago
  FAANG pays very well, and money can be exchanged for goods and services. I know that having benefits like a free bike feels good, but the total compensation you are getting is much lower than that of people that work for big tech and pay for their own transportation.
  - 2y ago

rlpb 2y ago

I understand the need for human contact and to get out of the house. But you can achieve that working "from home", too, albeit with some consideration for confidentiality requirements[1]. Usually the place you must work from isn't defined. I work "from home", but once a week I work in the same room as a bunch of locals who also work from home. A few advantages: 1) you have a wider pool of people to choose to co-work with, since they can have other employers, too; 2) you can choose who you want to co-work with; 3) you get to (mostly) choose which and how many hours you wish to co-work; 4) no stress about being late due to a commute or childcare commitments, since co-working hours are optional. [1] I deliberately arrange to work on things that aren't confidential on co-working days.

mrweasel 2y ago

> I know this might be an "unpopular opinion," It should not be. I work from home 100% now, but feeling alone is a very real issue for many of us. I have friends I talk to during the day via IRC or one the phone, regular chats and video calls with colleagues and managers, family is right around the corner and I try to get out every day and talk to people. For some the isolation is wonderful. For others, like me, it's amazing for doing focused work, but I also need people in my life. For some problem arises when their sole social circle is people they work with. If you struggle to talk to people you don't know then coworkers quickly be an "outlet" for socializing.

fhd2 2y ago
I've been working primarily from home for 12 years now, and I can absolutely understand these feelings. I don't think I'd enjoy it at all if I didn't have so much family and loved ones around, just sitting in an apartment all day by myself. What interaction you have with co workers with so much fewer social cues can hurt more than it helps, really. I'll bet you many managers in favour of RTO feel exactly like this when they work from home, and base their decisions on the way they feel.
seadan83 2y ago
In office is a mixed bag. Sometimes there are genuine people there who could become true friends. On the other hand, there are those that talk through their smiles. The two are sometimes indistinguishable and it can be hard to determine whether those office relationships were hollow or not. In a best case, they are not hollow. In a worst case, you think you have a support network and friends and don't spend as much effort to find genuine community connection. Then when it comes time to leave, or change team - the relationship evaporates leaving you worse off than before (still isolated, but now also older and missed opportunity). It is a spectrum, true friends I believe are somewhat rare in the workplace. Another dimension to that spectrum is a development of a working cohort. Essentially a half dozen people or more that hire each other at new jobs and move together from company to company. A true best case there us to meet a potential co-founder. Though, I have had a remote colleague whome we spent days on video calls together working on a problem. I am not sure remote is in-office is actually mutually exclusive. The people willing to spend 5 hours on a call peer coding with you might be the same that you actually become friends with in office

ekianjo 2y ago

if you want to see people you can work in a coworking space near where you live without the commute. I dont understand people who want to commute more than one hour a day if they have the choice not to. And even more so if you consider the environmental impact and all the stress that goes with it.

bluedino 2y ago
Co-working spaces aren't everywhere, and the people there aren't your co-workers so it's really not the same relationship.

bmitc 2y ago

I experience that as well. But the way I see to combat it is that working from home gives me more energy to go out on my own terms like taking classes, volunteering, etc.

jon-wood 2y ago

I think this is completely fine. Some people like working remotely, other people don't. I fully expect to see a gradual trend of companies going on way or the other over time, because hybrid really is the worst of both worlds with nobody really being happy.

blindluck 2y ago

> option Popular > Amazon tells Sucks

Malcolmlisk 2y ago

I have a 100% remote job. But my team have decided to go at least every tuesday to the office. We are not obligued, but almost everyone comes to the office once a week just to socialize and talk about our projects and sometimes even to take a beer or two after work. To me, feels super refreshing to talk to people when Im at the office, and to be fair Im much much less productive in the office. But makes me appreciate when Im at home and when I dont need to be in the car for 1 to arrive my home, take everything and go to the gym. It feels like, going from time to time to the office when almost everyone is there, gives to the remote working more sense and value. And viceversa.

Sebb767 2y ago
I work in a similar setup, but we only have 2 office days a month. I still like this very much; you get to meet and socialize with all your colleagues, but you have basically all the advantages of home office and traveling for two days a month is easy.
htrp 2y ago
"There are wealthy gentlemen in England who drive four-horse passenger-coaches twenty or thirty miles on a daily line in the summer because the privilege costs them considerable money; but if they were offered wages for the service, that would turn it into work, and then they would resign." -- Mark Twain You can come in every so often (weekly) without issue (or by choice). When you're forced to come in every day, that becomes different.

Meganet 2y ago

I also enjoy the office when i'm there. My problem is that i really hate flex desks and now you don't get your own office anymore. But my problem is more with my home: I'm now buying a farm and i don't think it will feel the same way as it does at my flat. Its surprisingly hard to 'get out' to not feel annoyed by my flat. But i don't have a good outdoor view only a small window and i do not have a extra office space.

bluedino 2y ago

At first I enjoyed going into the office a day or two a week...but nobody else goes in, and it's even weirder being in a giant office building with just a couple people on each floor than it is staying at home.

joshsyn 2y ago

[dead]

m3kw9 2y ago

human nature in action, you have a nice thing for so long, you'd get bored of it

ghostpepper 2y ago

I also enjoy a certain level of in-office face to face interaction but 90 minutes by car per day would be too much for me.

ChumpGPT 2y ago

It's probably because you don't have much to do outside of work and that is where you get your only human interaction. People who have families and friends typically do better in a remote environment.

marricks 2y ago

I went remote a few years before Covid and I felt a bit isolated, but then I realized I had too much of my social life tied up in my job. Having hobbies and interests outside of work is so much better for my mental health and I wouldn’t swap it for anything, especially a 40 min commute. I also wouldn’t force anyone to go back to office so I could see the humm of their work. If you need that there’s co working spaces for that reason, or places which have in office options. Large companies mandating everyone work in office is purely a flex for control and probably to save their property investments.

marcosdumay 2y ago
> Large companies mandating everyone work in office is purely a flex for control and probably to save their property investments. It's a hidden layoff.
- big_jimmer 2y ago
  Bingo
- deweller 2y ago
  As a layoff strategy, I would expect it to be counterproductive. The people most likely to quit skew toward high-performing individuals who feel confident in their ability to get a remote job elsewhere. And vice versa.
  - nickpp 2y ago
    Sample of one, but around me best engineers came back to work soon after Covid ended, show up every day, communicate and collaborate. The less productive are the ones dragging their feet, coming up with excuses to stay home and hide as much as possible from peer scrutiny. Almost like best engineers enjoy coming and working with the team, while the worst dread it.
    - marricks 2y ago
      I’m sure the ones who love to suck up and don’t have a social life were chomping at the bit to come back, no doubt.

michaelcampbell 2y ago

So in office is better for you. What irks so many of us is that companies point to people like you and mandate EVERYONE be like that, because the C suite, whose entire lives and career have been built around having people around them assumes or decries that everyone either is, or should be, like them. Or worse, the middle management is given authority to give these mandates, and are in their highest level of incompetence and use it as a "power move".

Wheaties466 2y ago

you're not alone in this. I thought i would love WFH but it turns out I need some social interaction even though i dread it.

mrguyorama 2y ago
But this is not an acceptable reason to chain people like me, who have functional social lives, to your needs. You need social interaction, so go out and get social interaction. I don't. So why should employment cater to you rather than me?

RIMR 2y ago

There is a nice feeling that can come from having a new job, but if I suddenly had to be on the road 7-8 hours a week, I would find that very stressful.

mrsilencedogood 2y ago

The whole "us vs them" being manufactured in "remote vs onsite" is really suspicious to me. I have never actually heard from a single person who wanted to force remote people in, or a remote person who wanted to force onsite people out of the office. It feels like the owner class is trying to build a fox-and-the-grapes narratives around the people they've forcibly RTO'd to try to get some kind of grassroots-shaped support for their forced RTO policies. It's all about choice. I have 3 young kids. The youngest will be in school next year. At that point, I may find myself actually going to a coworking space from time to time (and if my company had an office near me, I'd go into that sometimes). I certainly don't mind the amenities and the company of my coworkers (all 2 of them that are actually physically located within a 4-hour-drive radius of me). But for right now, being able to be full-time remote with a fully flexibly work schedule is ridiculously important and useful to me. My wife has a dentist appointment? I can sit here in the basement and pull up the kid's camera while he naps and she can just go. I can eat lunch with my kid. I can do morning drop-off when my wife needs a break from the morning kid-prep grind. It's absolutely vital and our lives would've been a mess the last 4 years without it. Plus, besides the work-lifestyle thing, there's a question of equality of opportunity. As you can probably guess based on my above remarks, I live in BFE (five generations of my family live here, so I can't leave) and there's literally nothing that San Francisco-type SWE's would recognize as a "tech job" until you get up to Lake Michigan. My options, were I to work locally, would be to work in a place that specializes in government/enterprise contracting and "staff augmentation". If your nose is wrinkling and your brow furrowing upon reading that phrase, yes that's the correct facial expression to be making. And yes it pays what you'd expect. But thanks to remote work, I'm working for a startup and actually getting to program an actual software product and engage with its product development and all that.

Phrodo_00 2y ago
> I have never actually heard from a single person who wanted to force remote people in I have. lots of people get a lot of their social interaction from work.
- youngNed 2y ago
  An englishman, a scotsman and an irishman are marooned on a desert island. Afer a long year one of them finds a lamp, and when cleaning it up a genie appears. The genie offers them one wish each The Irishman says 'sure i'd give anything to be back in galway, stuck in a snug, with a pint of porter' and <poof> he's gone. The scotsman is amazed and roars 'take me back tae glasgae!' and in a similar puff of smoke is gone. The englishman, looks around and says 'I say, its going to be awfully lonely around here without those chaps around, can you bring them back please?'

yoyohello13 2y ago

90 min commute time is insane to me. That is a massive amount of time to give to your company for free. If companies want people to come back to the office, they should pay for commute time.

torginus 2y ago

Imagine working all your life, and your crowning achievement being: - buying a house you never see the inside of while the sun is up - buying a car whose purpose is making the two hours every day you spend commuting a bit less miserable

indoordin0saur 2y ago

It really depends on your commute. For me I take a 20 minute subway ride but could also choose an hour walk or a 30 minute bike ride. I definitely prefer my situation to working from home 5 days a week. But if I were driving an hour in traffic I'm sure I'd prefer to be remote.

zellyn 2y ago

I'm lucky in that my company closed the office far from me, and consolidated on an office about 15 minutes' drive / 25 minutes' bike ride from my house. Now, when I weigh 30 minutes of commute versus being cooped up in the same room I was in for the whole pandemic and almost lost my mind, it's easy: office whenever I can. That said, I'd be very loathe to _have_ to come in to the office. There are whole weeks where it just doesn't work out logistically, and it's nice to be able to work from home.

w0m 2y ago

It's legit. Fully Remote can be seriously isolating/depressing. Hybrid is probably the ideal; but even so I live 15m from the office and when I go in it's empty 90% of the time anyway. I don't know if I'd take a 45m commute until the kids can get themselves home from school (daily pickup/dropoff) - but I do miss 2h beer lunches on a Tuesday after closing a ticket to blow off stress.

jhbadger 2y ago

Before the pandemic it used to be commonly believed that even remote work shouldn't be done at home and you used to see coffee shops filled with people on laptops (and frustrating people who just wanted a table to drink their coffee and eat a pastry). Obviously during the pandemic we got used to working from home but as you say a big downside is that it removes all distinction between your work and home environment.

RHSeeger 2y ago

> I know this might be an "unpopular opinion," That's the thing, though; it's important to remember that it very much _is_ an opinion/preference. For some people, working from the office is better, for others, it's working from home, and for others it's a combination of both. There are positives and negatives to each, for both the employee and the employer. That being said, a company limiting itself to _only_ people willing to work in the office is doing just that; limiting itself. I expect the reverse is also true; but the pool of workers to choose from for "everyone remote" is a _LOT_ bigger than the pool of workers for "everyone in the office".

mihaaly 2y ago

This is nice! When everyone can choose what work best for them! We are not the same - and face to face meetings have their huge benefits from time to time anyway. Except for those poor souls working for Amazon.

nswest23 2y ago

huh. it's almost like there isn't a one size fits all solution and people should have options that fit their lifestyle.

collyw 2y ago

Same. I can't stand working in my home office at this stage. Somethings are easier when you don't have the distraction of a busy office, but many things are a lot easier / more efficient. On-boarding new staff is so much better in person. Similarly, in the old days when I had jobs where I was expected to wear a shirt and dress reasonably smart to the office, I enjoyed getting changed into other clothes afterwards. It marked a real change between work and personal time. That gets very blurred with working from home.

dagw 2y ago
It marked a real change between work and personal time. That gets very blurred with working from home. I actually try to dress 'properly' even when working from home. I know most people find it silly, but I feel I work better when wearing 'work' clothes.

sqren 2y ago

@kwanbix: do you have kids? I feel that's one of the primary deciding factors for working from home. People without kids are much more flexible with their time, whereas people with (small) kids are severely more limited. Freeing up commute time and being able to do small chores like starting the washing machine creates significant happiness, which totally offsets the downsides of not seeing your co-workers (that) often. Before kids I would also become depressed if I worked remotely full time. But today my "alone time" is already pretty much gone outside work hours so I don't mind being by myself during the day.

ryukoposting 2y ago

The upvote brigade might disagree, but I certainly didn't mean my comment to yuck anyone's yum. If you want to commute, go for it! It's a free country and all that. I did feel somewhat isolated when I first started working remote. I also moved to a new city at the same time, and I didn't have much to do... besides work. I had to force myself out into the world a bit, and it got a lot better. It helps that I found myself in a community where I could easily find things that I found appealing.