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Max Headroom and the World of Pseudo-CGI (2013)
- MarkusWandel 2y agoOr this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agS6ZXBrcng https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agS6ZXBrcng (SD unfortunately but then it is old - impressive amount of model building to achieve something that would be a CGI nobrainer today)
- lelandfe 2y agoMiniatures are still in use in Hollywood! The weathering in your video reminded me of the storytelling from Weta in this Blade Runner BTS (which they call "big-atures"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLxxbfsj8IM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLxxbfsj8IM
- metadat 2y agoWhoa, this is so neat! Stunning level of detail, a shame it's not even full SD and so fuzzy. :) What really put me over the top was the reveal for how the Stargate Effect works.
- dylan604 2y agoI remember this as a kid, but kid memories forget about how janky the motion was. I'm assuming that was the best attempt at it too.
- kaycebasques 2y ago[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- MarkusWandel 2y agoI think this was posted here in the past year but why not... how the Windows 10 wallpaper is, in fact, not a computer graphic. https://youtu.be/ewmXizBqjl0?si=ME-US9M5PgQcF4dH https://youtu.be/ewmXizBqjl0?si=ME-US9M5PgQcF4dH
- metadat 2y agoWindows 10 wallpaper was physically built and photographed (2015) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40439515 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40439515 - May 2024 (268 comments)
- mixmastamyk 2y agoSounds like the flyby of the HBO logo, to introduce features. Another example of when they knew they wanted a CGI look, but was still cheaper to build it physically. Edit: see below!
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- duxup 2y agoTo me the Psudeo-CGI or straight up non CGI effects have more character. Is it intentional or just "found" I don't know, but I always feel like there's more of a unique look to them. Straight CG still looks more often than not, too clean (even if trying to look dirty), too polished, too uniform, no character, and just feels like CGI for CGIs sake. Something feels lost and while I expected it to get better over time, I don't feel like it has gotten better.
- swatcoder 2y agoCGI effects are inevitably samey because any generation of them all get built on the same few tools from the same few vendors, largely by artists and animators trained to approach those tools in the same way, often chasing the mark established in the last big breakthrough hit and whatever new technological innovations it was built on. Meanwhile, practical and hybrid effects have a much wider palette of material and techniques leverage hundreds of years of diversity and maturity in craft technique, and leave plenty of room for lead artists to apply their own personal creative signature. We can assume CGI will eventually merge into that latter pool, but that won't happen until technological innovation plateaus and artists turn focus to clever innovations in technique and style instead.
- Freak_NL 2y agoIt all comes down to lots of greebles and people who see a CD-rack and think 'that would actually make a really cool skyscraper for this dystopian cityscape I'm making'¹. 1: I think that happened with Bladerunner (1982).
- sleepybrett 2y agoI mean you see a combination of cgi and practical (puppet/rubber applicae and masks) in some of the newer disney+ star wars stuff (and some stuff that is both, grogu is primarily a puppet but they do some cgi work on top to 'sweeten' him). I think generally a toss-up as to what looks worse from a reality comparison perspective, however I think the practical work in starwars taps into a lot of the nostalgia and legacy from the first three movies and ends up being more 'accepted' by that audience. Other blockbusters have followed suit on this re-adoption of practical effects as well, the new Dungeons and Dragons movie used quite a bit of practical effects in their creature work as well.
- codeulike 2y agoThis article is missing any clips of Max Headroom so here is one, an interview with Max on the Wogan chat show in 1985 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f_hWGCsY1g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f_hWGCsY1g The effects were great for the time, and done in real time, allowing Max to ad-lib
- tempaway4575144 2y agoAnd the Max Headroom style was notably copied for the Back To The Future 2 "80s Cafe" scene, with Max Headroom style version of Reagan, Michael Jackson and Ayatollah Khomeini. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAEU-Lf60LA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAEU-Lf60LA
- airstrike 2y agoExhibit #infinity for why this movie and the first installment are so god damn great
- schlauerfox 2y agoand the angular robot makeup reminds me of Stan Winston's work in HeartBeeps (1981).
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 2y agoThat's a classic I haven't thought of in ages
- jazzyjackson 2y agoAlso receives an homage by Eminem in the video for Rap God https://youtu.be/XbGs_qK2PQA https://youtu.be/XbGs_qK2PQA
- djmips 2y ago1.4 B views! probably more than Max ever got...
- 2y ago
- Eric_WVGG 2y ago> Of course, if Max had been made using actual CGI he would have ended up as a creaky old relic, rather like the “Money for Nothing” video which came out the year after his debut. Instead, Jankel, Morton and Frewer came up with a genuinely iconic creation that has aged surprisingly well. Ouch! Just last night, I couldn't sleep and wound up watching a deep dive on youtube regarding the video, one of the original animators even commented on the thread (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHJj25PBIhg)… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHJj25PBIhg)… calling "Money for Nothing" creaky and old is like criticizing 8 bit pixel art for being blocky. Yeesh.
- jimbokun 2y ago> calling "Money for Nothing" creaky and old is like criticizing 8 bit pixel art for being blocky. Yeesh. Just tell the kids it's a tribute to Minecraft.
- djmips 2y agono Minecraft is a tribute to "Money for Nothing"
- brodouevencode 2y agoUnderrated video. Underrated song.
- rapind 2y agoKnopfler is a magician on the guitar.
- havblue 2y agoMoney for Nothing is underrated now? I thought MTV even uses it when they splash their logo. Everyone knows it's great, video as well. I think it's neither underrated nor overrated. It's just rated.
- jazzyjackson 2y ago
- lostemptations5 2y agoLet's not forget that behind all this was actor -- including the improv and adlibs -- Matt Frewer.
- lostemptations5 2y agoApparently 1.9 meters tall which is a bit ironic considering how small the screens generally were back in those days. :)
- kleiba 2y agoBut less ironic if you consider the character's name.
- tabtab 2y agoSimilarly, those of us who cannot afford high-end AI have to use Photoshop to fake the AI look for our memes, like gluing extra toes on people.
- qingcharles 2y agoAnd most of those old panels on spaceships etc were just gel printed, often with hand-applied Letraset etc https://propstoreauction.com/lot-details/index/catalog/347/lot/113896 https://propstoreauction.com/lot-details/index/catalog/347/l...
- Triphibian 2y agoIf I want one thing out of AI (besides not destroying humanity) it would be an old CRT in the corner of my house with an AI Max Headroom I could talk to.
- lenerdenator 2y agothe usual version, or the Chicago version?
- Triphibian 2y agoMaybe a bit creepy to keep in the house.
- jimbokun 2y agoI was thinking, could you trust train a modern LLM with content meant to emulate Max's personality (not sure if there's enough content just from the shows), plus synchronized blocky animation to generate Max Headroom?
- Triphibian 2y agohonestly I don't need Max to summarize wikipedia pages for me: Non-sequitur jokes with the occasional riff on something I said would feel real enough.
- lordfrito 2y agoThey did it with Seinfeld "Nothing, Forever" [0] It should be easier with Max... what a great idea someone has to do this. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqfmTofQLL0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqfmTofQLL0
- sumtechguy 2y agowait... this might be possible to do...
- hitpointdrew 2y agoGreat video on why Max Headroom is wildly missunderstood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsDrXc94NGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsDrXc94NGU
- nabla9 2y agoMax Headroom TV series, 2 seasons 14 episodes total is a really great cypherpunk series. If you watch it today, its cypherpunk and 80's nostalgic retro scifi.
- schlauerfox 2y agoCyberpunk is the gritty near future Blade Runner inspired style of max headroom (which takes place "5 minutes in the future") and the works of William Gibson. Cypherpunks are the gen x people behind things like PGP and Bitcoin. To quote wikipedia: "A cypherpunk is any individual advocating widespread use of strong cryptography and privacy-enhancing technologies as a route to social and political change."
- nabla9 2y agoI made a typo. Should have written cypherpunk (a subgenre of science fiction in a dystopian futuristic setting said to focus on a combination of "low-life and high tech")
- mulderc 2y agoI really enjoyed the show, but I’d suggest checking out the original TV movie Max Headroom: 20 Minutes into the Future first. It provides great context for the series and stands on its own as a unique piece of cyberpunk history. Last time I checked, it was available on YouTube
- voytec 2y agoSci-fi Interfaces is a good source of similar content https://scifiinterfaces.com/ https://scifiinterfaces.com/
- hlehmann 2y ago[dead]
- RichardCA 2y agoThanks, I was unaware of Annabel Jankel, sister of Chaz Jankel. https://youtu.be/uf0JKWSLd3I https://youtu.be/uf0JKWSLd3I
- Animats 2y agoToday's pseudo-CGI effects are the distortions Youtubers apply to stock shots. The dust-and-scratches insertion filter, the camera-jitter insertion filter, the sprocket area visible filter, the sepia tone filter, fake analog TV noise, fake zoom and pan... Usually narrated by a neckbeard with an oversized microphone.
- wslh 2y agoI understand that Commodore Amiga (e.g. visual effects) was also used for the Max Headroom series [1][2]. If we go backwards, probably new generations think that Star Wars was also done using CGI. [1] https://network47.org/vault/max-headroom/max-headroom-and-the-amiga/ https://network47.org/vault/max-headroom/max-headroom-and-th... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Headroom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Headroom
- askvictor 2y agoHuh. I was just telling a workmate about Max Headroom yesterday. It would be neat to have a Max Headroom filter for Zoom (would use a video background as a starting point except for zoom's lack of video backgrounds on Linux)
- pgib 2y agoI've been really hoping someone makes an OBS plug-in to simulate the Max Headroom stutter.
- LarsDu88 2y agoI think the best example of pseudo CGI are the user interfaces from Star Trek the Next Generation in the late 80s, early 90s. In the show, every display is supposed to be an interactive digital display, but because such displays didn't exist at the time, they actually faked it using exacto knives and cellophane. For the 2023 Star Trek Picard show, they actually recreated the Enterprise Bridge, but replaced most of the fake LCARS cutouts with actual OLED screens! The artist who created the LCARS design talks about it in this video: https://youtu.be/iRlSQiYnDLI?si=pN6OvmvNeaOO_OmI&t=62 https://youtu.be/iRlSQiYnDLI?si=pN6OvmvNeaOO_OmI&t=62 He talks about how actors in the late 90s had no conception of pushing digital buttons, and had to be coaxed into the idea that you could touch a screen rather than a physical control!
- lupire 2y agoWe had janky resistive touchscreen cash registers in the 1990s.
- LarsDu88 2y agoThe episode Okuda refers to where Marina Sirtis is on the Battle Bridge is the very first episode of TNG "Encounter at Farpoint" which aired in 1987... basically filmed in 1986 - same year the movie Aliens came out So I got my dates a bit mixed up. They were actually doing this in the mid 80s. Although touchscreen technology had been around for about 2 decades, it was still not very widely used by the general population.
- nox101 2y agoMore Tron (1982). Nearly any scene with humans in it is mat paintings and then hand masking of live action. https://youtu.be/sbgHMrLPQrE?t=2928 https://youtu.be/sbgHMrLPQrE?t=2928
- dools 2y agoMax headroom used to scare the shit out of me when I was a kid. I think they used him in an ad campaign, and I just remember people talking about the show but not understanding it and then seeing it occassionally and being totally freaked out. But then again The Young Ones also scared me because there's one where Neil drives a nail through his foot or something.
- razakel 2y ago>I think they used him in an ad campaign They did, for Pepsi.
- pvaldes 2y agoHonorable mention in the same league: 'Wynnona's Big Brown Beaver' videoclip from Primus.
- rob74 2y agoReminds me of this short-lived (and IIRC pretty goofy) TV series that nevertheless somehow indelibly implanted itself into my teenage computer nerd brain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automan Lots of Pseudo-CGI there too (along with some rudimentary real CGI).
- jhbadger 2y agoRelated to the idea of pseudo-CGI (in which practical effects are trying to look like computer graphics) was the 1970s/1980s mechanical games like "Digital Derby" that were made to look pixelated for no reason other than to make it look like the crude graphics of video games of the time. https://toytales.ca/digital-derby-from-tomy-1978/ https://toytales.ca/digital-derby-from-tomy-1978/
- fasa99 2y agoarcade games worked on the same idea (mechanical) and had some pretty next level setups in the arcade- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YedSuvlFElo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YedSuvlFElo
- jhbadger 2y agoTrue, but I guess what I was trying to say is that things like Digital Derby were trying to look electronic when they didn't have to -- the mechanical/electromechanical arcade games of the 1960s/early 1970s were more realistic visually than most video games were until the last couple of decades.
- mightyhacker658 2y ago[dead]