5 ms·

Apparently how powered radars are fairly common on US navy vessels, and injuries not uncommon from walking in front of them or otherwise being exposed. One woul

Apparently how powered radars are fairly common on US navy vessels, and injuries not uncommon from walking in front of them or otherwise being exposed. One would think there exists a body of knowledge on exposure to at least this sort of “high energy”?

SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
There's definitely research. In fact, the US has the "Active Denial System", an experimental directed-energy weapon built on those principles whose effects have been studied on humans. It causes temporary pain, potentially thermal damage if left on for too long. One of the big reasons I'm skeptical of Havana Syndrome is that its symptoms are nothing at all like that.
- colordrops 2y ago
  Are you making up the "big reasons"? There is a wide spectrum of radio waves, and they have very different affects on living tissue. The one you speak about is a very specific slice of spectrum.
  - nradov 2y ago
    Which slice of the spectrum causes brain damage while leaving the skin and eyes apparently intact? Please give us a specific frequency range.
    - colordrops 2y ago
      Microwaves can do this. They can cause enough damage to cause effects to the brain without massive damage to skin. Some people did have vision problems btw. But you are just distracting from the topic at hand. The system talked about above is 95 gigaherz and doesn't even penetrate the skin.
      - nradov 2y ago
        You're not making any sense. If the radiation doesn't penetrate the skin then it won't affect anything under the skin.
        colordrops 2y ago
        No, you are completely misunderstanding. Let's explain this again. Original post talks about US "Active Denial System". This system works at 95 Gigaherz, which does not penetrate the skin. Microwave beams are a different part of the spectrum, and definitely penetrate the skin, and the whole body. These are what were theorized to have been used against embassy staff.
        nradov 2y ago
        I understand just fine but you're not making any sense. Microwaves powerful enough to cause brain damage would also cause visible skin damage. Some radiation may pass through the skin but some will be absorbed in it. What you're suggesting isn't physiologically possible.
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        > Microwaves powerful enough to cause brain damage would also cause visible skin damage. Citation needed. As a general idea, if you heat an area 20 degrees at the surface, slowly dropping as you get deeper, the skin will be unharmed but that's really bad for a brain.
        colordrops 2y ago
        You're bullshitting. You thought I was talking about ghz radiation, then go back to microwaves once I clarify. But putting that aside... Is the brain not more sensitive to non-macroscopically visible damage than the eye and skin? And have no skin and eye damage been found? Have people not reported visual disturbances?
  - SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
    There's a wide spectrum of radio waves, so it's impossible to conclusively prove that there's no frequency which might be consistent with reports of Havana Syndrome, but nobody has proposed one and I see no strong reason to believe it exists. The microwave auditory effect is the closest I'm aware of, and my understanding is that it would explain only the weird audio perception. Remember that this entire EM spectrum idea is the second proposed mechanism. When Havana Syndrome was getting off the ground, advocates thought it was a directed sonic attack - many of the early victims claimed to have recordings of it!
    - EasyMark 2y ago
      Look up ionizing radiation, that’s what you need short of sheer directed power. Obviously radio/microwave frequency waves can affect the flesh in concentrated enough power. However the symptoms from “Havana syndrome” are all over the place. We’re all just slabs of meat to some potential real version of this, and it should have been fairly similar symptoms across the board.
      - swores 2y ago
        > However the symptoms from “Havana syndrome” are all over the place. We’re all just slabs of meat to some potential real version of this, and it should have been fairly similar symptoms across the board. If you imagine a weapon that does some damage to whatever part of a person's brain it's aimed at, but not the whole brain, then it doesn't seem a leap to think that it could cause different symptoms in different people depending on how much damage gets done to which bits of the brain? Not that I think there is some secret weapon in this case, I'm just responding to your point about people being the same as each other with the thought that surely brain damage could lead to a wide range of different symptoms.
    - colordrops 2y ago
      Don't straw man. The point is that the 95 gigaherz waves used in the system mentioned above don't even penetrate the skin.
silverquiet 2y ago
I mean, you can see the effects of high-powered radar any time you use a microwave; certainly one can imagine how that could be used to harm a person. But if someone was firing high-powered anything at a US Embassy, there would be ways to detect it.
akira2501 2y ago
The engineer I used to work with said he would warm his hands with "spare" RF energy on a cold day. Just put your hands in front of the element and they warm up. In any case.. the energy there is so high.. you can literally feel it happening to you.

SpicyLemonZest 2y ago

There's definitely research. In fact, the US has the "Active Denial System", an experimental directed-energy weapon built on those principles whose effects have been studied on humans. It causes temporary pain, potentially thermal damage if left on for too long. One of the big reasons I'm skeptical of Havana Syndrome is that its symptoms are nothing at all like that.

colordrops 2y ago
Are you making up the "big reasons"? There is a wide spectrum of radio waves, and they have very different affects on living tissue. The one you speak about is a very specific slice of spectrum.
- nradov 2y ago
  Which slice of the spectrum causes brain damage while leaving the skin and eyes apparently intact? Please give us a specific frequency range.
  - colordrops 2y ago
    Microwaves can do this. They can cause enough damage to cause effects to the brain without massive damage to skin. Some people did have vision problems btw. But you are just distracting from the topic at hand. The system talked about above is 95 gigaherz and doesn't even penetrate the skin.
    - nradov 2y ago
      You're not making any sense. If the radiation doesn't penetrate the skin then it won't affect anything under the skin.
      - colordrops 2y ago
        No, you are completely misunderstanding. Let's explain this again. Original post talks about US "Active Denial System". This system works at 95 Gigaherz, which does not penetrate the skin. Microwave beams are a different part of the spectrum, and definitely penetrate the skin, and the whole body. These are what were theorized to have been used against embassy staff.
        nradov 2y ago
        I understand just fine but you're not making any sense. Microwaves powerful enough to cause brain damage would also cause visible skin damage. Some radiation may pass through the skin but some will be absorbed in it. What you're suggesting isn't physiologically possible.
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        > Microwaves powerful enough to cause brain damage would also cause visible skin damage. Citation needed. As a general idea, if you heat an area 20 degrees at the surface, slowly dropping as you get deeper, the skin will be unharmed but that's really bad for a brain.
        colordrops 2y ago
        You're bullshitting. You thought I was talking about ghz radiation, then go back to microwaves once I clarify. But putting that aside... Is the brain not more sensitive to non-macroscopically visible damage than the eye and skin? And have no skin and eye damage been found? Have people not reported visual disturbances?
- SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
  There's a wide spectrum of radio waves, so it's impossible to conclusively prove that there's no frequency which might be consistent with reports of Havana Syndrome, but nobody has proposed one and I see no strong reason to believe it exists. The microwave auditory effect is the closest I'm aware of, and my understanding is that it would explain only the weird audio perception. Remember that this entire EM spectrum idea is the second proposed mechanism. When Havana Syndrome was getting off the ground, advocates thought it was a directed sonic attack - many of the early victims claimed to have recordings of it!
  - EasyMark 2y ago
    Look up ionizing radiation, that’s what you need short of sheer directed power. Obviously radio/microwave frequency waves can affect the flesh in concentrated enough power. However the symptoms from “Havana syndrome” are all over the place. We’re all just slabs of meat to some potential real version of this, and it should have been fairly similar symptoms across the board.
    - swores 2y ago
      > However the symptoms from “Havana syndrome” are all over the place. We’re all just slabs of meat to some potential real version of this, and it should have been fairly similar symptoms across the board. If you imagine a weapon that does some damage to whatever part of a person's brain it's aimed at, but not the whole brain, then it doesn't seem a leap to think that it could cause different symptoms in different people depending on how much damage gets done to which bits of the brain? Not that I think there is some secret weapon in this case, I'm just responding to your point about people being the same as each other with the thought that surely brain damage could lead to a wide range of different symptoms.
  - colordrops 2y ago
    Don't straw man. The point is that the 95 gigaherz waves used in the system mentioned above don't even penetrate the skin.

silverquiet 2y ago

I mean, you can see the effects of high-powered radar any time you use a microwave; certainly one can imagine how that could be used to harm a person. But if someone was firing high-powered anything at a US Embassy, there would be ways to detect it.

akira2501 2y ago

The engineer I used to work with said he would warm his hands with "spare" RF energy on a cold day. Just put your hands in front of the element and they warm up. In any case.. the energy there is so high.. you can literally feel it happening to you.