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> Apple's greatest weakness is that many of it's fans and I'd assume people in house assume they are the epitome of UI design when actually it's not. Which led

• marcosdumay 2y ago
  > things are impossible to discover unless you watch tutorials on YouTube My last Android phone made me watch about a dozen youtube videos to discover how to configure it... It's not an Apple thing anymore.
• PaulHoule 2y ago
  CarPlay is a thing because carmakers just can't seem to make a decent "radio" with a touchscreen no matter how they try. It would be nice to see a business school case study that reveals why.
  • copperx 2y ago
    That problem isn't limited to "radios." Have you ever used a smart thermostat? A touchscreen fridge? A smart TV? Horrible, horrible UX.
  • DistractionRect 2y ago
    Radios don't need a touch screen. Old button radios are pretty intuitive. The display/touch aspect is because people want navigation, apps like deezer/itunes/Spotify, etc. Then you have to think about updates/real time data. How does that work? Does the car need its own data plan? Or do we do everything via usb and just do everything offline? And then people still expect to connect their phones to the car, for calls/reading texts etc, so you still have to support that in some way... and people will expect that to play nice with the audio playback features (calls pause/unpause music, etc) Since we're already supporting a phone connection, then it just makes life easier to bring your own experience. The auto maker supplies the interface, you bring your own apps, data plan, etc via carplay/android auto. Personally, I find it's a huge step forward to whatever OEMs make in house which aren't updated/obsolete in a few years.
    • akdev1l 2y ago
      In theory you could use a smartphone as data provider for updates etc
  • diggan 2y ago
    > CarPlay is a thing because carmakers just can't seem to make a decent "radio" with a touchscreen no matter how they try But CarPlay is 100x worse than Android Auto, even though Apple is supposed to excel at UI and UX, this was the point I was trying to make, not that car makers such at UI/UX.
    • Angostura 2y ago
      Having used both, I disagree. What do you prefer with AA?
      • diggan 2y ago
        Well, for starters, if I'm using a map app on the CarPlay/Android Auto dashboard, then I expect phone calls to not cover the entire screen automatically, as I'm probably using the map for navigation. Anything on top of that would just be extras, but something basic like that should work at least. Which it does on Android Auto, but not on CarPlay.
      • wave100 2y ago
        The biggest shock for me moving from Android Auto to Carplay was the complete lack of multi touch support in Apple's offering. Worked perfectly on Android.
  • lotsofpulp 2y ago
    I am happy CarPlay and Android Auto are a thing because I do not want to give any other entity access to my phone.
  • immibis 2y ago
    You can't feel the controls on a touchscreen. You always have to look at it.
• savanaly 2y ago
  >Everything is dog slow, not because poor performance but because of slow animations. Did you try Accessibility > Motion > Off? >Things are impossible to discover unless you watch tutorials on YouTube There's a pretty useful manual built into the device itself called Hints I think? Did you read that?
  • diggan 2y ago
    > Did you try Accessibility > Motion > Off? There is no "Motion > Off" but there is a "Reduce Motion" toggle. Seems to be turning things that were slowly animated into even slower fade, like when you switch applications. Doesn't seem to actually affect much, animations inside for example Apple applications is still there, no matter if that toggle is on or off. > There's a pretty useful manual built into the device itself called Hints I think? Did you read that? I've browsed through it, but I don't think it's in no way extensive? I tried to find anything documenting the "Hold on spacebar and drag to move text cursor" in the Tips application (that I'm guessing you're referring to?) and found nothing, which is one of the features I "discovered" purely by accident.
    • mh- 2y ago
      There's a manual for iOS. Here's[0] the section about the onscreen keyboard (ctrl-f for trackpad to find the spacebar thing). Expand the Table of Contents + at the top to see all the sections. (Like others, not defending the state of things, just trying to help.) 0: https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/type-with-the-onscreen-keyboard-iph3c50f96e/17.0/ios/17.0 https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/type-with-the-onscree... edit: if you want it in an offline format, you can find it in the Apple Books app by searching iPhone User Guide.
      • diggan 2y ago
        Yeah, with the helpful title of "Turn the onscreen keyboard into a trackpad", not even mentioning "move/moving" or "cursor", and also using "trackpad" wrong? A trackpad is for controlling a pointer, like a mouse, not to control the "insertion point of text". Great that it is mentioned somewhere, in some manner, I guess.
• codelikeawolf 2y ago
  > And then CarPlay is just an abomination! Even the most basic things like "I'd like to answer a call while still being able to see the map I use for navigation" seems to be completely ignored and it honestly doesn't make any sense at all. I totally agree that this is terrible. But this kind of behavior always makes me wonder if this is a "passive aggressive safety" thing. I have a 2019 Subaru Impreza, and I can't change the time on the clock unless I'm in park. I tried it at a red light once because I got sick of seeing the wrong time after DST and I thought something was messed up, but it turns out it was because I was in drive. I'm fully capable of changing the time at a red light without causing an 8 car pile-up, just like you're fully capable of talking on the phone and following directions while driving. Regardless of whether it's a bad UX thing or a misguided attempt at safety thing, it's still super annoying.
  • diggan 2y ago
    > I totally agree that this is terrible. But this kind of behavior always makes me wonder if this is a "passive aggressive safety" thing. I'm 99% sure no one of the designers who created those UX flows have ever actually used CarPlay in real life, like the users do. It's really hard for me to imagine a designer coming up with an appropriate reason for blocking the map view because you answered a call.
    • bombela 2y ago
      I don't know why you are being down voted. I know from first sources that it is true. The car dash design is completed independently of the UX/UI work. And the designers/programmers never test it in the car. There is almost no iteration there. In fact the people I talked to worked remotes. They couldn't even try to get into a prototype car if they wanted.
• Hnrobert42 2y ago
  I am curious where you perceive the slowness. I always had flagship Androids before my switch to a 12 mini. Overall I am happy. There are plenty of things that annoy me lots but I never really noticed slowness. Where do you notice it? Do you play games or use compute intensive apps?
  • diggan 2y ago
    > I always had flagship Androids before my switch to a 12 mini. And I had budget Android phones (Motorola Moto G) before my 12 mini, yet the iPhone is worse on most points besides the display and sound. > Where do you notice it? Do you play games or use compute intensive apps? Anywhere where there is an animation/sliding/transition. Everything feels like it's moving in molasses. But it's very much not a Apple-specific issue, designers nowadays seems to make animations in general way too slow. Which is fine when it can be configured (like on Android) but Apple doesn't like customization (or used to at least), so we can't.
    • runjake 2y ago
      This sounds backwards, based on my experiences. I keep thinking of switching back to Android, so I keep a recent-ish Pixel in my inventory. I do not observe this on my 12 Mini that is on iOS 16. Comparing it to my Pixel 6a with stock Android 14, I’d say the iPhone is faster/smoother and less glitchy moving around the UI. Perhaps something is up with your 12? That would still be a ding on Apple.
      • chowells 2y ago
        I think you misunderstand the complaint. What you perceive as "smooth", they perceive as "obnoxiously slow". They don't want smooth, they want the animation to be over so they can get on with life without waiting for it.
      • diggan 2y ago
        As the other commentator is saying, it's about the speed of the animation. It's the same on every iPhone, including mine, but it's too slow for someone who doesn't want to be "amazed by cool animations/translations" every time I switch pane/panel/window/go back/go forward. > 12 Mini that is on iOS 16. Comparing it to my Pixel 6a with stock Android 14 Enable the Developer/Debug menu on your Android phone, turn off animations inside that menu then compare the "snappiness" between the two. While the iPhone puts animations/transitions/fades between everything, the Android will immediately "jump" to what you wanted, without animations. If you try this out, I'm sure you'll notice what I mean. This is what I want on my phone too, or at least 100x faster animations.
• crtasm 2y ago
  >slow animations. Same on Android by default, but at least I can speed it up. Enabling the power user/developer menu in Android's settings lets me disable animations entirely. My old phone feel really snappy now and I'd do the same on a new phone too.
  • Dibby053 2y ago
    No need to enable developer settings, at least in Android 14 it's in accessibility>color and motion>remove animations.
• eks391 2y ago
  I've used a few apple products -- the iPhone 3 was my first smartphone, and an iPad mini back when tablets were starting out. At the time of the switch to android, I didn't think too much of it, but definitely enjoyed the customisation. A couple years ago I was gonna get a new phone and, half my family being Apple devotees, I was considering switching again so I could stop hearing the 'blue bubble' nagging, plus they seem to genuinely enjoy their phone. In pure luck, a friend had a new iPhone 13 and hadn't switched from his old phone yet, and allowed me to use it for a couple days so I could see just how incredible the phones are and I should switch. After about 48 hrs, I was so done with the product, and like you, preferred to switch back to my old 'crummy' phone until I bought my next flagship. I can't imagine being locked in till it dies, because as you said, the iPhone is such a miserable product. I'm sure you could resell and get a flagship for a similar price. You'd still net loss, but IMO it would be better than keeping the phone since you don't like it.
  • talldayo 2y ago
    The older I get, the more certain I am that Apple products are designed from the ground-up as ad-watching appliances. On iPad, you're restricted to a sandboxed environment where you are not encouraged (or in many cases, allowed) to do anything other than watch ads. You cannot sideload apps that are Open Source. You cannot install emulators or fullspeed VM software. You cannot switch the browser out for one you would prefer with controls amenable to your satisfaction. You watch ads, because any holistic path to entertaining yourself is either sold by Apple or monetized through advertisements. On every Apple platform. I remember watching those "what's a computer?" ads and laughing out loud. Yeah, what is a computer? We've gone so long watching YouTube ads and Music.ly sponsored content that half of us don't even know what one is. Are we even still connected, when companies like Apple mediate how we're allowed to communicate with each other and share ideas? Apple's design for a bicycle for the mind has been repurposed into a flywheel for cash generation. I don't meet a single person "riding" their iPhone anywhere more important than Pornhub or Instagram.
    • diggan 2y ago
      > You cannot sideload apps that are Open Source. You cannot install emulators or fullspeed VM software. You cannot switch the browser out for one you would prefer with controls amenable to your satisfaction. Worth noting that while this used to be true, those things are now/soon geofenced features that only Europeans get to enjoy. Too bad if you happen to live in the home country of Apple.
• throwaway48476 2y ago
  UI is designed by designers for designers. Then management and marketing. End users are a tertiary consideration. Yes I'm bitter about the Jetbrains New UI abomination.
• saagarjha 2y ago
  You can answer the call and switch back to Maps while the call continues, right?
  • diggan 2y ago
    > You can answer the call and switch back to Maps while the call continues, right? Yes, I can, and currently have to, but absolutely 0 times I've answered a call in the car and want the Phone app to cover the entire screen, no matter what I had there before. It's just extra dangerous when I'm using maps, as maybe I have a turn I have to make in that exact moment, and having to go back to the maps just because some designer at Apple want to showcase their contact/name/phone number layout in the Phone app sounds like asking for trouble.
    • saagarjha 2y ago
      Sometimes I quickly want to just say “I’ll call you back” and end the call.
• ein0p 2y ago
  You could disable animations on iOS through accessibility options. As a rule a flagship iPhone is at least 30% faster than flagship Android (by which I basically mean Samsung Galaxy) on realistic workloads.
  • diggan 2y ago
    > You could disable animations on iOS through accessibility options No, you cannot (mentioned here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41409580 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41409580). Makes it even worse in the cases I tested actually. > As a rule a flagship iPhone is at least 30% faster than flagship Android (by which I basically mean Samsung Galaxy) on realistic workloads. That's cool, but not what I'm talking about. Even my Motorola Moto G4 (released in 2016) allowed me to turn off the animations, so even that one "appears" faster than my iPhone 12 Mini only because iOS forces you to wait for animations to finish.
  • Dylan16807 2y ago
    A phone doesn't spend much time doing "workloads". UI animations in particular should never be close to CPU or GPU bound.
    • ein0p 2y ago
      And they aren’t. The op probably just didn’t like some hyperparameter, like duration, because it had a different value than on Android.
      • Dylan16807 2y ago
        Yes, I agree, that is what they meant by slow animations. So why did you bring up compute power? They specifically said "not because poor performance". Also I don't think "just" is the word to use here. Slow is slow, and when it's on purpose it's harder to avoid.
        • ein0p 2y ago
          Slow is in the eye of the beholder. Of all the legitimate complaints one could make about Apple, “slow” is somewhere towards the bottom of the list.
• vaindil 2y ago
  > Edit: I just remembered the most egregious issue: How can I see the current year without having to open up a separate calendar application/put a huge widget on my home screen? I'm not a fan of Apple for many reasons and I agree with your overall sentiment (though not with the same voracity), but I'm really curious how _this_ is the most egregious issue for you. The calendar year changes so infrequently, why would you need it featured so prominently?
  • diggan 2y ago
    > but I'm really curious how _this_ is the most egregious issue for you. Because it's so basic. Add a switch that lets me decide how I want the date to be displayed on the lockscreen/notifications centre. > why would you need it featured so prominently? It doesn't need to be more prominently than where the date is right now, I just want the current year next to it as well.
    • HaZeust 2y ago
      >Because it's so basic Exactly, it's such basic knowledge to know - it'd be a waste of space to show it ... What UI even gives you the option to have year next to date/day and time?
      • diggan 2y ago
        > Exactly, it's such basic knowledge to know Well, for some people, they know exactly what date it is, and what week number it is, does that mean we shouldn't show that either, because it's such a basic knowledge to know for some? I'd prefer to accept that different people remember different details, that's why we let our personal computing devices be customizable, because not everyone is the same.
  • makeitdouble 2y ago
    That must be baffling to so many, but people's memory work in very different ways, and not keeping in "RAM" the current year or one's age is a thing. It comes back after a moment of thinking, but it's just not instantaneous. And that's of course worse in countries with two calendars.
• jvdvegt 2y ago
  To be fair: I also can't find the current year on my Pixel 4 (Android 13) in the clock app or the settings. I have to open Google Calendar.
  • 71bw 2y ago
    Shocker: you have to use the Calendar app to open the Calendar.
• xp84 2y ago
  The egregious amount of time wasted playing the animations is really the worst. For a great demo of how bad it is, even on my 15 Pro Max — try this: go into a Messages conversation and hit the + next to the text entry field. An ugly, blur-filled animation has to play for about 1000ms EVERY TIME you open this menu up, which is now the way you have to add a photo to the conversation. Heck, I don’t even want the menu, I just want a photo button which instantly shows my most recent photos. Back in jailbreak days there was a global animation timer hack you could do — changing the animations to take zero seconds — so they would all just be skipped. It made the phone so fast. (“Reduce Motion” is useless for this because yeah, the fades are just as slow.)
  • docfort 2y ago
    I take your overall point, but for this specific complaint, there’s a shortcut: long press on the “+” button to take you directly to the photo pocket in Messages.
    • xp84 2y ago
      Thank you! A year on this crappy UI and I never discovered that organically. Such a great discoverable UI.
• petters 2y ago
  > most egregious issue: How can I see the current year What do you want/need this for? Not something I've heard before
  • jagged-chisel 2y ago
    A full-year calendar. I’m not GP, but I’m pretty visual when it comes to planning things for the coming year. I don’t need coloring to show what’s available and what’s not, just a full year view of the calendar.
  • makeitdouble 2y ago
    This is probably at the center of it: only a portion of users want this, and thus it will be a PITA on iOS. Apple perfected optimizing for the 80/20 split, where 80% of users will experience very little friction, and the other 20% can go pound sand. And that was obviously a clever marketing decision up to a point.
  • diggan 2y ago
    > What do you want/need this for? Some things don't get stuck in my memory, like the current year or my own age. My own age is easy to calculate as long as I know the current year, but the current year isn't always easy to remember for some reason, especially the first 6 months of each year. Most of the time I just have to think for 10-15 seconds to remember it though, so isn't the end of the world exactly. And no, my memory is generally fine, it's just some "sometimes changing" numbers that just don't get persisted correctly, or they're stored correctly but my retrieval microservice is too janky to retrieve stuff fast enough.