7 ms·

On the other side of the Channel, the French government has managed to create the "BAN" (Base Adresse Nationale - National Address Database), a database of deta

• nottorp 2y ago
  Even in the far right US postcodes are public info :)
  • crote 2y ago
    The big difference is that US postcodes describe very large areas. A 5-digit US ZIP code describes a town or neighborhood, with on average 8200 people living in each ZIP code. Most European postcodes are far more precise, often describing a single street, part of a street, or even part of a building. Postcode + house number is usually enough to uniquely identify a mailbox. For example, in The Netherlands on average only 40 people live in each postcode. That makes the dataset far more valuable for geolocation.
    • dmurray 2y ago
      The US also has 9-digit postcodes which usually map to a single building or smaller: aren't they public too?
      • bluGill 2y ago
        They are public, but the post office changes the last 4 digits every few months so there is no point in telling anyone what yours is. These days the post office can look up your street address and give you all the information they need - which is an 11 digit bar code good for the next week.
        • aaronax 2y ago
          Based on my personal experience, I really doubt that the last 4 digits of the ZIP+4 are changing more often than once per decade or longer. I could see the delivery point of the 11-digit code changing every few months, but you are already aware of that code system so it is not simple confusion between the two on your part. Could you provide more information or a source?
          • bluGill 2y ago
            20 years ago they changed all the time. Wikipedia doesn't mention this though. These days the post office can read the street address via computers and get the 11 digit code they need, so I suspect they don't need them. (for PO boxes the 9 digit code apparently doesn't change)
        • terribleperson 2y ago
          My 9-digit zip hasn't changed in at least 10 years.
          • sroussey 2y ago
            Mine has not changed in 25 years.
• GJim 2y ago
  > GPS coordinates *coordinates There are four GNSS constellations, of which GPS is only one...... a statement that negates the fact ones position on Earth may be calculated using a variety of other means. EDIT: In response to replies below; One isn't questioning the coordinate system (!), rather the assumption as to how they have been calculated.
  • arnsholt 2y ago
    In this context, it's not terribly hard to divine that they probably mean EPSG:4326 coordinates. I was going to comment that one of the ETRS89 UTM zones might be easier to work with, but on second thought the data almost certainly includes the DOMs if not the TOMs, so a global coordinate system is probably best.
    • deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    • manarth 2y ago
      The BAN provide fields `long` and `lat` which are WGS84, and also `x` and `y` which are coordinates expressed in "the appropriate local CRS" (without much elaboration on what that would be).
      • ryandrake 2y ago
        Not to mention that “latitude” and “longitude” cannot uniquely describe an address, regardless of the datum or ellipsoid. Maybe that is not the intent of storing the coordinates. Lat/Lon says nothing about floor number in a multi-story apartment.
      • willyt 2y ago
        That would be the French national grid system, no? The UK has the ordnance survey grid which is based on the OSGB36 datum. I'm pretty sure France will have a similar national datum to create their own local grid coordinates as planning and building works needs to be done in a more accurately aligned local datum than WGS84.
• stef25 2y ago
  Very cool. Nice effort by France. For a while I played around with that kind of data here in Belgium, it's not easy to get it all standardized and "usable".
• mormegil 2y ago
  We have the same in the Czech Republic (Registry of territorial identification, addresses and real estate; https://cuzk.gov.cz/ruian/RUIAN.aspx https://cuzk.gov.cz/ruian/RUIAN.aspx (sorry, Czech only)). I would even expect it to be the case in more EU countries, cf. the INSPIRE directive.
• gabesullice 2y ago
  A cautionary example of how data meets reality… My address in France is listed in the BAN… but only to the granularity of my street number (e.g., 123 Main St.). Unfortunately, that number corresponds to at least 7 different structures, 5 of which are apartment buildings. Of those 5 buildings, each has multiple stairwells with their own door and no line of communication between them—they might as well be separate buildings. My particular building has 8 levels with 2 flats per level. No flat has a door number or letter, meaning I must say 'Nth floor, door on the right' to give directions to a visitor. And I could not receive mail until I affixed my name to my postbox on the ground level. None of that is in the BAN as far as I can tell. Finally, on OpenStreetMap, the coordinate for the the street number address in the BAN actually corresponds to an island in the street that happens to face a private road that enters the property. There is more than one entrance :)
  • tomsmeding 2y ago
    That sounds like chaos. Who thought constructing multiple apartment buildings without any kind of sensible post code or address was a good idea? Sure, this being reality BAN does not apparently meet reality, but it does sound like someone had the opportunity to keep reality sane here, and they didn't.
    • numpad0 2y ago
      I think it means more towards that Uber Eats never works for that BAN than local post office have no clue and snail mail fails. GP didn't say the latter is the case.
      • gabesullice 2y ago
        You're right. Since the postal worker knows his route, he knows my name. So snail mail works perfectly well. Same for the Amazon delivery person (took a few visits). Same for the local pizza place. It's online address suggestion/validation/one-time deliveries that don't work well. E.g. Uber Eats and DHL drivers always require a phone call so that I can guide them along the final hundred meters of their delivery. I usually go downstairs and meet them at the curb.
• ikr678 2y ago
  Australia is similar, howeve, irrespective of how perfect your national addressing standards are, companies ingesting this data providing any sort of to-the-premise service still have to mash and clean and dissect it to fit whatever legacy system they are running. I am aware of one utility provider that is locked into a custom network modelling solution that was officially sunset in 2014 and employs 3 ftes to manually create and delete addresses because the old address import tool broke.
  • rtpg 2y ago
    So many Australian sites use some data source that has an old name for the building I'm in, and sites are so convinced their address databases are right that I can't do anything about it! Mildly frustrating
    • ethbr1 2y ago
      In the US, I had a family member's address change zip codes (approx similar to larger area postal codes) and associated city. It took a surprising amount of time to cascade through systems, as in years. I think we're at +8 years now, and Google Maps still has the old zip and city. Which means many websites do too.
    • mabster 2y ago
      Our previous apartment was listed under the wrong postcode. Annoying for Uber Eats because they would get lost. Our current building is one of those 56-66 style buildings. Different service use a different number (e.g. postal is 56, gas is 58). We've had a few cases where our address doesn't match so the system rejects us. And when I vote I have to read which number they have upside down!
• toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Is there a a reason this hasn't been pushed for at the EU level?
• lukan 2y ago
  Next step, automatically feed all the roads, speed limits, temporary blocks/construction sites automatically into OSM or similar accessible data.