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SpaceX accused of dumping mercury into Texas waters for years
- frankharv 2y agoThere are people that find something wrong with nothing at all. ""environmental organizations published an open letter voicing anger with the tests while highlighting Starbase’s proximity to indigenous sacred lands"" How dare they get close to indigenous lands.
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y ago> There are people that find something wrong with nothing at all. If you think mercury in the water is nothing at all please drink some and report back to us.
- avmich 2y agoSo is there mercury in the water in dangerous (not just above zero) amounts or not? I don't see that in the article. Can we get things straight?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- benopal64 2y agoThere is a little-known actor... oh what was his name again? Oh yeah, Martin Sheen-- He narrated a documentary covering the effects of a tribe being downwind from a nuclear testing area. So perhaps there is some understandable concern about being downwind from an Elon Musk-supported facility or any large engineering facility. Here is a link to a review of the documentary: https://www.opb.org/article/2024/01/21/documentary-downwind-nuclear-test-site-nevada-mark-shapiro-shoshone-nation-ian-zabarte/ https://www.opb.org/article/2024/01/21/documentary-downwind-...
- DemocracyFTW2 2y ago> How dare they get close to indigenous lands Americans have long enough suffered at the hands of those who claim to have ancient or inalienable rights to everything including water, air, and land. It is about time Americans get their act together and take back what is rightfully theirs. /s
- olliej 2y agoReminds me of the “Indians go back to India”, Jesus was American, etc :D (I do wonder if there are non-English Christians who also seriously argue “Jesus spoke {my native language here}” - it seems to be a very US evangelical specific thing but I am curious if there are similar non-English groups)
- renewedrebecca 2y agoI’ve heard it argued that the KJV was somehow more accurate than the original manuscripts in the original languages.
- bell-cot 2y agoThe article gives no hint as to why there are high levels of mercury in SpaceX's water deluge system. Elon would not be trying to buff his "Evil Billionaire" rep...right?
- mlindner 2y agoThat's because there's the actual texas environmental report doesn't claim high levels of mercury in the samples. The high level comes from a typo of putting the decimal point in the wrong spot. https://www.tceq.texas.gov/downloads/permitting/wastewater/title-iv/tpdes/wq0005462000-spaceexplorationtechnologiescorp-starbaselaunchpadsite-cameron-tpdes-adminpackage.pdf https://www.tceq.texas.gov/downloads/permitting/wastewater/t...
- credit_guy 2y agoYou're linking a 483 page document, and I have no idea what typo you are referring to. Can you be more specific?
- mlindner 2y agoThe article claims 113 micrograms per liter, the document claims "<0.113" micrograms per liter. Page 177. Also called "Report Page 20 of 71". RL stands for "Reporting Limit".
- DerekL 2y agoIt looks like page 79 of that doc has a typo. It says mercury in sample 1 is 113 µg/L. Maybe they meant 0.113.
- lern_too_spel 2y agoIt was supposed to say <.113 µg/L.
- autoexec 2y ago
- mrlonglong 2y agoThis is NOT true! I'm no fan of Musk but this is false.
- ChrisArchitect 2y agoActual article: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/12/spacex-repeatedly-polluted-waters-in-texas-tceq-epa-found.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/12/spacex-repeatedly-polluted-w...
- spikels 2y agoSpaceX Responds: CNBC’s story on Starship’s launch operations in South Texas is factually inaccurate. ... We only use potable (drinking) water in the system’s operation. ... We send samples of the soil, air, and water around the pad to an independent, accredited laboratory after every use of the deluge system, which have consistently shown negligible traces of any contaminants. Importantly, while CNBC's story claims there are “very large exceedances of the mercury” as part of the wastewater discharged at the site, all samples to-date have in fact shown either no detectable levels of mercury whatsoever or found in very few cases levels significantly below the limit the EPA maintains for drinking water. ... https://x.com/SpaceX/status/1823080774012481862 https://x.com/SpaceX/status/1823080774012481862
- qsdf38100 2y agoSpaceX saying that SpaceX did nothing wrong is a start, but it would be nice to get the same kind of refutation from more independent sources.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- aeternum 2y agoYou are hereby accused of being a scallywag! You must now stop whatever you're doing and find independent sources to refute the claim. If only we still believed in burden of proof.
- soraminazuki 2y agoIs SpaceX's own permit application not enough for you? It's linked in the article.
- aaomidi 2y agoConsidering Texas doesn’t give a shit about the environment…
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- olliej 2y agoI think the headline conflates a bunch of things to make clickbait. It does seems there are accurate and correct complaints about EPA violations, etc at the Boca chica site, and there are also accusations of mercury (and presumably other materials) being detected. My reading of the article, and the plain text reading of the spacex statement mean I don’t think there’s sufficient factual basis to go from the known EPA violations to “put mercury in the water”. The regulatory violations seem objectively true, but those regulations are in place because historically that lack of guards led to terrible dumping. So the regulations mean such stuff is detected early and punished if it does happen. However it’s important to realize that the violations in the actual complaint are not “spacex dumped stuff” they are “spacex did not get the required approvals or let us do the testing”. They’re important issues, and need to be addressed, but the issues are very explicitly not “we have reason to believe that there were issues”. I think a more practical comparison for us normies would be “you had a competent electrician rewire your house or a plumber do significant work without getting a permit or inspection”. In reality for most cases people aren’t trying to have their house catch fire or fill with .. stuff .. but legally you’re required to get permits and inspections. Those permits and inspections exist to prevent/deter the kinds of people who do try to do substandard work, but you can’t write a law that says “the only people subject to this law are the ones trying to violate it”, so everyone has to do stuff that for most people isn’t necessary. Alternatively it’s illegal to drive a car without functioning brakes, so in many countries your have to have your car checked annually. Most people aren’t going to drive an unsafe car, but to protect “most” from some, everyone has to get a WOF(or similar). So my reading of the article is the EPA complaint currently is just “they didn’t follow the approval and testing parts of the regulatory requirements”, nothing more. The article then brings in a bunch of other allegations that aren’t in the actual EPA complaint to try and put those accusations on the level as the actual complaint, because yay clicks! It’s quite possible those other allegations are true (because that’s pretty standard corporate behavior - prior corp behaviour is why the EPA and similar exist), but equally they could be false (there’s no additional pollutants), false (the pollutants are there, but from old dumping), false (the pollutants are there but from a different company), etc Musk is a shitty person, and corporate behavior when awful chemicals are involved is often garbage, but misrepresenting things merely provides ammunition when groups are actually doing illegal stuff to say “look, this is the same lies and BS they wrote here” so I really wish it would stop. If people want to shit on space Karen they should focus on the awful shit we know he does, there’s no need to invent stuff.
- BertoldVdb 2y agoHow does the mercury get into the water?
- mlindner 2y agoThere isn't any significant levels of mercury in the water. The "high level" comes from a typo. https://www.tceq.texas.gov/downloads/permitting/wastewater/title-iv/tpdes/wq0005462000-spaceexplorationtechnologiescorp-starbaselaunchpadsite-cameron-tpdes-adminpackage.pdf https://www.tceq.texas.gov/downloads/permitting/wastewater/t...
- foobarqux 2y agoIt's completely irrelevant: You need to file a permit where you demonstrate that; because not-contaminating water is essential not only for drinking but also all our food sources its integrity doesn't work on a "trust me bro" system. But given that he has already illegally released toxins for years (at Fremont paint factory), doesn't really give the impression he cares about complying with regulations, presumably didn't do the work necessary for the permitting process, and has a general disregard for process/safety/etc it would be pretty surprising if there weren't illegal levels of substance discharge.
- formlessentity 2y agoEven if it is a typo, isn’t 0.113 above the limit of 0.005? More than 22x the limit. Natural gas has significant levels of mercury in it apparently, so it’d make sense to see levels like this. My other question is how is the environmental report so screwed up? It looks like it’s mostly typos
- jiggawatts 2y agoThis is what dirty politics looks like. This! Irrespective of how you personally feel about Musk, consider that this is targeting a company with thousands of employees run by… its CEO Glenn Shotwell, not Musk. SpaceX is terrifying to the competition: both dinosaurs like ULA, and also newcomers like Blue Origin. The article states: “In total, the Harlingen region received 14 complaints alleging environmental impacts from the Facility’s deluge system.” Umm… what!? Fourteen? Fourteen locals were wading through the local mud within spitting distance of the launch towers taking what… water samples? It’s tap water! If it has mercury in it then the real article should be about mercury in the tap water! “I have a complaint to make! Yes I would like to remain anonymous, but you can call me… umm… Beff Jezos. Yes, I’m personally and financially affected by SpaceX activities and would like to file a complaint.” The popsci article was definitely written by an anti-Musk hack. I seriously wouldn’t surprised if he took a bribe to write a “hit piece”, because if he didn’t he’s doing dirty work for billionaires for free. We shouldn’t reach for the stars, unless every local office of everything is fully satisfied that all of the paperwork is filed. Speaking of which: “Neither regulator answered CNBC’s questions regarding SpaceX’s statement.” You don’t talk about corruption to the media. It’s shameful what they’re doing, otherwise they’d be happy to clarify the issue to the public.
- snypher 2y ago>were wading through the local mud ... It’s tap water! If it has mercury in it then the real article should be about mercury in the tap water! On this point, if I have pesticide on my boots and rinse them with potable water, that water now has pesticide in it. Also, that local mud is also known as a wildlife habitat, so yes, we shouldn't be adding mercury to it. Also, we can't just throw away Earth for the sake of 'reaching for the stars'. Right now SpaceX is a cell tower installation business, nothing more. I'm not concerned what Elon's "stated goals" are.
- jiggawatts 2y agoAt no point did the article make any verified claim about anything in the water other than H2O. The title is fiction. SpaceX almost certainly uses zero mercury in their rockets, and if they do use tiny amounts, it’ll be a in the electronics and not getting washed into the water in appreciable amounts. The fuel is natural gas and oxygen. Where’s the mercury coming from!?
- autoexec 2y agoDon't worry, it's only a matter of time before the supreme court hamstrings the EPA and the clean water act. Then it won't matter how much mercury is pumped into the water.
- ath3nd 2y agoIn other, totally unrelated news: Cancer rates are rising in young people. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41225678 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41225678 It's a mystery why.