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Aside from the absurd prices of these drugs ($500/month) and the initial shortages (mostly caused by shortages of auto-injectors, not the drug itself); there do
by Someone1234 2y ago
Aside from the absurd prices of these drugs ($500/month) and the initial shortages (mostly caused by shortages of auto-injectors, not the drug itself); there doesn't appear to be many downsides.
They essentially reduce food addiction/cravings. Significantly reduce T2 diabetes risks via two distinct mechanisms. It is interesting the moral stance people place on this and how you don't see the same thing on nicotine patches or other cessation products.
Seemingly if people are overweight that is a moral failing, and doing something that helps live a healthy lifestyle is also a moral failing. These drugs literally cause people to crave vegetables, and that is bad because they aren't raw-dogging it.
Ultimately the only problem here is the criminally high prices. Hopefully other countries can get a better rate so more lives saved/chronic diseases mitigated.
- refulgentis 2y agoReading this, I'm ultimately reminded that the internet has driven us to a place where we can observe ~every opinion, and in fact, some people implicitly, even explicitly, compete to have opinions that are obviously wrong enough that they'll attract more attention than a subtle one. TL;DR: I haven't see anyone take a moral stance.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y agoWell, I'm too lazy to do it, but you can search for some HN responses to previous comments I've made on this topic if you want to find folks taking a moral stance.
- Tagbert 2y agoI e certainly seen posts here that the people just need the strength of will to eat less.
- silverquiet 2y agoI don't hear it explicitly, but I hear all kinds of static about these drugs from essentially everyone I know, and I assume it's coming from some sense that people are taking the easy way out. I feel it a bit myself as I've had weight issues myself and never taken this type of drug, but if it was cheap and easily accessible (as far as I know it is neither), I'd probably at least try it.
- reaperman 2y ago> shortages of auto-injectors This is super unfortunate because there's really no "need" for the auto-injectors. Could just be standard medicine vials with rubber stoppers and patients could use insulin syringes to measure out their specific dose.
- mrtksn 2y agoI keep seeing studies about positive outcomes from Ozempic, it truly appears to be a miracle drug. For example this: https://x.com/ScienceMagazine/status/1816398064011083922 https://x.com/ScienceMagazine/status/1816398064011083922 It even appears to help with psychiatric disorders and neurodegenerative diseases. BTW, the the drug is much cheaper in EU. Maybe because it's an EU drug? I don't know but in Greece it's about 100 EUR and in Bulgaria even cheaper at 90EUR.
- nwienert 2y agoFixes immune system issues too, I can say firsthand it's a near miracle for mine, and I wasn't overweight or out of shape when I went on.
- voisin 2y agoWhat type of immune issues does it fix? Please elaborate.
- consteval 2y agoObesity raising your risk of just about every autoimmune disease. Also symptoms are often lowered when you're thinner, for those who have already developed the disease.
- nwienert 2y agoNo it's separate from the obesity effects. For me I have both Familial Mediterranean Fever and hypermobile Ehlers Danlos, I get consistent effects from them (~monthly basis) but since Tirzepatide have had none now nearly 2 years. I can actually feel the lack of fasciculation and other effects quite strongly on vs off (I've cycled off a few times). There's already some research into Parksons[0] and we know it has effects lowering TNF-a, IL-6 and other inflammatory protein signals [1]. [0] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1568163723001381 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S156816372... [1] https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/pharmacology/articles/10.3389/fphar.2023.1146960/full https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/pharmacology/articles/1...
- nradov 2y agoI don't have any moral concerns about those drugs but there are significant clinical downsides. Some patients experience gastroparesis that can persist even after stopping the drug. https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/health/weight-loss-diabetes-drugs-gastroparesis/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/health/weight-loss-diabetes-d... Patients also tend to lose a significant amount of lean muscle mass. That might not be an issue for morbidly obese patients who tend to have a lot of muscle buried under their adipose tissue. But for patients who are just a little overweight the loss of muscle may increase their risk of sarcopenia and cause endocrine problems. https://peterattiamd.com/the-downside-of-glp-1-receptor-agonists/ https://peterattiamd.com/the-downside-of-glp-1-receptor-agon... In general GLP-1 agonists should only be used as a second line therapy if the patient is unable to sustain behavior modification (eat less, move more). Use it if you really need it, but know what you're getting into.
- 0xcde4c3db 2y ago> behavior modification (eat less, move more) I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but the more I think about it, the more I suspect that "eat less, move more" might have done more damage to the weight management discourse than any other single aphorism. In my (admittedly anecdotal) experience, trying to make both of those changes simultaneously is setting oneself up for failure to make either. I eventually found a modicum of success through multiple cycles of implementing one, and then easing into the next weeks after adjusting to the last. Maybe some people really do need a white-hot catalytic moment to undergo their transition into proper self-determination (cue "Rules of Nature", "Before My Body is Dry", etc.), but I think most people would be better off with manageable steps that can be haltingly traversed over the course of months/years. But I guess that's too fucking boring to be a sales pitch or redemption narrative or whatever else scores points these days.
- treprinum 2y agoHead over to reddit to read horror stories about Ozempic recovery. "there doesn't appear to be many downsides" https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ozempic-wegovy-linked-severe-medical-conditions-stomach-problems-study-rcna118823 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ozempic-wegovy-li...
- Salgat 2y agoI'm willing to bet that the rare side effects of Ozempic outweigh the common and deadly side effects of morbid obesity. If I had to pick between the two, I'll take my chances with being thin.
- gruez 2y agoEven your own article admits it's exceedingly rare. I think most people would classify penicillin as "there doesn't appear to be many downsides", even if there's a few % people deathly allergic to it.
- BoredPositron 2y agoThere is a difference in being allergic and side effects though.
- crooked-v 2y agoIn the specific mechanism of it, sure. But, what people actually care about are the bad effects and how likely they are to happen.
- solardev 2y agoIt honestly doesn't seem that bad, at least from the news story? > "Still, [Mayo clinic gastroenterologist] Acosta was not overly swayed by the study’s findings, saying some of the side effects listed in it could be the result of patients’ rapid weight loss, not the medications. He said he would like to see a large randomized controlled clinical trial looking at people who received the medications or placebos." And another doctor said it wouldn't change her prescriptions. Sure, there may be some side effects, but shouldn't that be compared against the near certain death sentence of long term obesity?
- SoftTalker 2y agoTaking prescription drugs indefinitely is not a "healthy lifestyle" but if you sit on your butt all day eating junk food and drinking soda and you can't make yourself stop, it's better than just letting that continue.
- crooked-v 2y agoPlenty of people take caffeine indefinitely. Is that better because it's not prescription?
- paulpauper 2y agoThere is more ambivalence with weight loss drugs because it's perceived as taking the easy way out. The possible side effects from some of these drugs like diarrhea and nausea makes me inclined to think it's not easy, and if by easy that means effective, what is wrong with effective medicine? Why is spending money on drugs that don't work a good thing?
- lazide 2y agoHow did this go from ‘nausea and diarrhea as possible side effects’ to ‘these drugs don’t work’?
- paulpauper 2y agothey work but not without some side effects, like many drugs
- zarathustreal 2y ago> …and that is bad because they aren’t raw-dogging it. You’re correct, I just want to emphasize that “not raw-dogging it” is bad because it deprives the individual of the self-discipline training. You’d think it would be a blanket Good Thing (tm) to have more people “survive” in general, but in reality, in the long term, it’s actually worse to increase the number of people on the planet that have to rely on chemical assistance to control their impulses
- maxerickson 2y agoDo you rawdog the sun bro, or are you chemically dependent on other living things?
- 0xcde4c3db 2y agoFun (?) fact: some people have in fact claimed to sustain themselves solely on air, sunlight, and water. Okay, well, mostly. You see, they might occasionally need a Big Mac and Coke due to various forms of "pollution". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inedia
- gcr 2y agoI'm chemically dependent on my shoe sole rubber to insulate my artificially-soft feet from all the sharp stones I step over on my daily commute. Lo, how softe the human body has grown! If only 'twere for more self-discipline, my feet could develop the natural toughness to endure Nature's harsh grip!
- orwin 2y agoThat's a surprisingly moralist take coming from someone who seems to have read and like Nietzsche (unless your pseudonym come from another Zarathustra). Whether you read him as a nihilist (some people do), post-nihilist or as a proto-existentialist, i don't see how you can see it as worse (a nihilist and post-nihilist wouldn't do such value judgement, and an existentialist wouldn't judge on how you live, but on what you do, and taking drugs to be in better shape isn't worse or better than powering through it with your own will.)
- wffurr 2y agoThere absolutely were (and are, although maybe less so over time) moral reactions to nicotine alternatives, anti depressants, methadone, etc.