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Electric motors are definitely one way to achieve this but it seems so crude to use a device that’s detectable after the race. Instead, how about sealing up th

Electric motors are definitely one way to achieve this but it seems so crude to use a device that’s detectable after the race. Instead, how about sealing up the downtube and filling it with a weakly exothermic gas producing mixture* and then adding some turbine blades — sorry I mean “triple butted crank stiffeners”, your honour — to the bottom bracket instead? One doesn’t normally pedal at 10,000 RPM so some other sort of gas-energy harvester design would be better but you get the idea. In a similar way to the case of the [spoiler alert] man stabbed with an icicle, the evidence will neatly and literally evaporate into thin air**. *Something on the chemical spectrum between “science fair volcano” and “sugar and fertilizer oh whoops I’ve made a pipe bomb” ought to do it. **Erm, apart from the gas turbine bit.

thepasswordis 2y ago
I wonder if you could use downhill sections to regenerate the high pressure inside of the tube. I love this idea. You're hired.
- BobaFloutist 2y ago
  Wait now I'm imagining purely mechanical regenerative braking. Like the bike has no ability to generate its own power, but it has a spring (or compressed air or compressed liquid) inside the frame that contributes to turning the gearshaft but gets rewound/compressed while braking. Is this possible? Would it be against the rules as written?
  - daemonologist 2y ago
    The UCI rules are... extensive; it's definitely disallowed [1]. Even if not, there's a rule along the lines of "any technical innovation must be pre-approved," and I am pretty confident it would not be. [1] Probably by article 1.3.010: "The bicycle shall be propelled solely, through a chainset, by the legs (inferior muscular chain) moving in a circular movement, without electric or other assistance." - https://www.uci.org/regulations/3MyLDDrwJCJJ0BGGOFzOat https://www.uci.org/regulations/3MyLDDrwJCJJ0BGGOFzOat
    - Aerroon 2y ago
      Therefore you put the motor inside the leg muscles
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      > Probably by article 1.3.010: "The bicycle shall be propelled solely, through a chainset, by the legs (inferior muscular chain) moving in a circular movement, without electric or other assistance." Well that just says you need to build your regenerative braking system into the chainset. Use of stored energy is obviously allowed or else you couldn't make use of gravity when on a hill. > Even if not, there's a rule along the lines of "any technical innovation must be pre-approved," What innovation? Mechanical energy storage is ancient technology.
      - eru 2y ago
        >> Even if not, there's a rule along the lines of "any technical innovation must be pre-approved," > What innovation? Mechanical energy storage is ancient technology. The actual unwritten rule is not so much against inventions, as against having any fun. Recumbent bikes are also forbidden.
        masklinn 2y ago
        > The actual unwritten rule is not so much against inventions, as against having any fun. The rules, written or not, are about trying to adjudicate a competition of people, if you want a no holds bared technology based competition nothing precludes creating a different one (or participating in one, there’s no dearth of alleycat races and other odd events like the singlespeed world championship).
        eru 2y ago
        I'm not against rules. What irks me a bit is that they are supposed to be about bikes, but in reality they are only about bikes that look exactly like the ones they have in mind. Eg (if I remember right) they also specify a minimum wheel radius, because at some point people started doing well with those, and the people in charge didn't like that. And they might as well be right: they have an entertainment business to run. They don't care about finding the best or anything like that.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
dyauspitr 2y ago
Well with the gas turbine you’re still in the same boat as having an inspectable device on the bike after the race though I guess it won’t set off any magnetic field detectors.
fizx 2y ago
No one will notice the bike's exhaust!
- charles_f 2y ago
  Especially if they go with thr volcano experiment blend!
genedan 2y ago
I'm thinking one way to easily do motor doping is via the bike changes. A rider swaps a doped bike brought in by the team that wasn't checked at the start during the easy portions and rides 100km saving watts along the way. They then change back to a regular bike before things get intense and meanwhile the team finds a way to discreetly get rid of the doped bike. After the stage the doping controls check the regular bike, but are unaware of the existence of the doped bike.
- w-ll 2y ago
  why do all that when u can have a mechanic check your derailleur for a few km while you hold onto the team car
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    AFAIK it used to be common sight in the 90's but they are not allowed to do that anymore. Reasons riders just swap bike at any doubt of issue, then they draft the "team cars caravan".
- doikor 2y ago
  They check all the riders bikes. The only time someone has been caught for motor doping was for a spare bike that they never used in that race.
  - stdclass 2y ago
    they in fact do not check every bike, especially if you are a domestique
- thrownblown 2y ago
  I used to give cancellara the benefit of the doubt. But after discovering the very very sneaky second bike change I think its very unlikely he didnt do mechanical doping. Cancellara had a mechanical issue and did a first bike chance. The main mechanic jumps out of the car and gives him a new bike. A few km's later Breschel has a real issue and requests a new bike, but the main mechanic isnt in the car anymore resulting in Breschel getting the wrong bike, losing a lot of time and never returning to the front. A few km further the images show Cancellara suddenly sitting on his original bike. What happened, at the point where cancellara did his first bike change, the stage makes a loop. The mechanic had to walk 500 meter to get on the other part of the stage. What does amateur footage reveal. In a turn everybody where makes the short turn, Cancellara goes wide where the main mechanic is waiting with the original bike and you see Cancellara do a lightning bike swap. Its a sad thing but after all these years I am convinced Cancellara cheated. (Stolen from a comment on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6z7uUe0tVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6z7uUe0tVA)
dclowd9901 2y ago
Great idea. I’d love to see how you’d inject a usable amount of PSI of compressed gas into a frame without some kind of permanently affixed nipple.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  Hide it under one of the screws? Though surely one could develop a nozzle apparatus that would fill the pipe with gas and then weld the hole shut. Anyway, GP is onto something interesting here. I'd watch the hell out of a sport based on creative attempts to overcome the rules and hide it from the judges.
  - gregoryl 2y ago
    Look at motorsports, especially semi-pro motorbike teams. The creativity is astounding.
  - zikduruqe 2y ago
    > I'd watch the hell out of a sport based on creative attempts to overcome the rules and hide it from the judges. NASCAR. This sport is all about bending the rules, gray areas and just plain trying to cheat. Back in the old days they would fill the roll cages will ball bearings during inspections, then pull a plug and drain them out before the race. The jack men, used to strategically dent the side of the car to strategically steer the air to get better downforce. Larry McReynolds has a video series on such things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-o44EmtRDE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-o44EmtRDE it's a fun watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtuEBl4iUDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtuEBl4iUDg antenna placement https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxJOiDsgxl4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxJOiDsgxl4 "accidentally" denting the sheet metal
    - rtkwe 2y ago
      There was a version of denting the side recently where they were pulling out a corner near the outside back wheel for an aero advantage. I think they banned that pretty quickly because it was tearing up tires way more often.
trhway 2y ago
why not bypass the bike completely? Thin flexible solar panel - disguised as some hologram-like corporate sponsor logo or even under the shirt with the shirt somewhat transparent or the panel weaved into the shirt - on the back of the cyclist as a source of energy which is fed as electric impulses straight into the cyclist muscles, pacemaker on steroids so to say. This can also be done in the other sports - like long distance runners for example. Another use of the energy, instead of into the muscles, is to generate some wave like vibrations of the shirt and the pants, like dolphin skin does, to decrease the air friction.
- elzbardico 2y ago
  Electric impulses are, roughly speaking, used as the signalling mechanism for muscles, not as the source of energy for their contraction.
  - trhway 2y ago
    Like a pacemaker the external impulse is to help jerk the muscle as the tiredness sets in, not to directly provide energy. For direct energy consumption one can for example implant into legs small - just for several Newtons of force - electrically contracting kind of artificial tendon/muscle.

thepasswordis 2y ago

I wonder if you could use downhill sections to regenerate the high pressure inside of the tube. I love this idea. You're hired.

BobaFloutist 2y ago
Wait now I'm imagining purely mechanical regenerative braking. Like the bike has no ability to generate its own power, but it has a spring (or compressed air or compressed liquid) inside the frame that contributes to turning the gearshaft but gets rewound/compressed while braking. Is this possible? Would it be against the rules as written?
- daemonologist 2y ago
  The UCI rules are... extensive; it's definitely disallowed [1]. Even if not, there's a rule along the lines of "any technical innovation must be pre-approved," and I am pretty confident it would not be. [1] Probably by article 1.3.010: "The bicycle shall be propelled solely, through a chainset, by the legs (inferior muscular chain) moving in a circular movement, without electric or other assistance." - https://www.uci.org/regulations/3MyLDDrwJCJJ0BGGOFzOat https://www.uci.org/regulations/3MyLDDrwJCJJ0BGGOFzOat
  - Aerroon 2y ago
    Therefore you put the motor inside the leg muscles
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    > Probably by article 1.3.010: "The bicycle shall be propelled solely, through a chainset, by the legs (inferior muscular chain) moving in a circular movement, without electric or other assistance." Well that just says you need to build your regenerative braking system into the chainset. Use of stored energy is obviously allowed or else you couldn't make use of gravity when on a hill. > Even if not, there's a rule along the lines of "any technical innovation must be pre-approved," What innovation? Mechanical energy storage is ancient technology.
    - eru 2y ago
      >> Even if not, there's a rule along the lines of "any technical innovation must be pre-approved," > What innovation? Mechanical energy storage is ancient technology. The actual unwritten rule is not so much against inventions, as against having any fun. Recumbent bikes are also forbidden.
      - masklinn 2y ago
        > The actual unwritten rule is not so much against inventions, as against having any fun. The rules, written or not, are about trying to adjudicate a competition of people, if you want a no holds bared technology based competition nothing precludes creating a different one (or participating in one, there’s no dearth of alleycat races and other odd events like the singlespeed world championship).
        eru 2y ago
        I'm not against rules. What irks me a bit is that they are supposed to be about bikes, but in reality they are only about bikes that look exactly like the ones they have in mind. Eg (if I remember right) they also specify a minimum wheel radius, because at some point people started doing well with those, and the people in charge didn't like that. And they might as well be right: they have an entertainment business to run. They don't care about finding the best or anything like that.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

dyauspitr 2y ago

Well with the gas turbine you’re still in the same boat as having an inspectable device on the bike after the race though I guess it won’t set off any magnetic field detectors.

fizx 2y ago

No one will notice the bike's exhaust!

charles_f 2y ago
Especially if they go with thr volcano experiment blend!

genedan 2y ago

I'm thinking one way to easily do motor doping is via the bike changes. A rider swaps a doped bike brought in by the team that wasn't checked at the start during the easy portions and rides 100km saving watts along the way. They then change back to a regular bike before things get intense and meanwhile the team finds a way to discreetly get rid of the doped bike. After the stage the doping controls check the regular bike, but are unaware of the existence of the doped bike.

w-ll 2y ago
why do all that when u can have a mechanic check your derailleur for a few km while you hold onto the team car
- prmoustache 2y ago
  AFAIK it used to be common sight in the 90's but they are not allowed to do that anymore. Reasons riders just swap bike at any doubt of issue, then they draft the "team cars caravan".
doikor 2y ago
They check all the riders bikes. The only time someone has been caught for motor doping was for a spare bike that they never used in that race.
- stdclass 2y ago
  they in fact do not check every bike, especially if you are a domestique
thrownblown 2y ago
I used to give cancellara the benefit of the doubt. But after discovering the very very sneaky second bike change I think its very unlikely he didnt do mechanical doping. Cancellara had a mechanical issue and did a first bike chance. The main mechanic jumps out of the car and gives him a new bike. A few km's later Breschel has a real issue and requests a new bike, but the main mechanic isnt in the car anymore resulting in Breschel getting the wrong bike, losing a lot of time and never returning to the front. A few km further the images show Cancellara suddenly sitting on his original bike. What happened, at the point where cancellara did his first bike change, the stage makes a loop. The mechanic had to walk 500 meter to get on the other part of the stage. What does amateur footage reveal. In a turn everybody where makes the short turn, Cancellara goes wide where the main mechanic is waiting with the original bike and you see Cancellara do a lightning bike swap. Its a sad thing but after all these years I am convinced Cancellara cheated. (Stolen from a comment on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6z7uUe0tVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6z7uUe0tVA)

dclowd9901 2y ago

Great idea. I’d love to see how you’d inject a usable amount of PSI of compressed gas into a frame without some kind of permanently affixed nipple.

TeMPOraL 2y ago
Hide it under one of the screws? Though surely one could develop a nozzle apparatus that would fill the pipe with gas and then weld the hole shut. Anyway, GP is onto something interesting here. I'd watch the hell out of a sport based on creative attempts to overcome the rules and hide it from the judges.
- gregoryl 2y ago
  Look at motorsports, especially semi-pro motorbike teams. The creativity is astounding.
- zikduruqe 2y ago
  > I'd watch the hell out of a sport based on creative attempts to overcome the rules and hide it from the judges. NASCAR. This sport is all about bending the rules, gray areas and just plain trying to cheat. Back in the old days they would fill the roll cages will ball bearings during inspections, then pull a plug and drain them out before the race. The jack men, used to strategically dent the side of the car to strategically steer the air to get better downforce. Larry McReynolds has a video series on such things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-o44EmtRDE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-o44EmtRDE it's a fun watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtuEBl4iUDg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtuEBl4iUDg antenna placement https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxJOiDsgxl4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxJOiDsgxl4 "accidentally" denting the sheet metal
  - rtkwe 2y ago
    There was a version of denting the side recently where they were pulling out a corner near the outside back wheel for an aero advantage. I think they banned that pretty quickly because it was tearing up tires way more often.

trhway 2y ago

why not bypass the bike completely? Thin flexible solar panel - disguised as some hologram-like corporate sponsor logo or even under the shirt with the shirt somewhat transparent or the panel weaved into the shirt - on the back of the cyclist as a source of energy which is fed as electric impulses straight into the cyclist muscles, pacemaker on steroids so to say. This can also be done in the other sports - like long distance runners for example. Another use of the energy, instead of into the muscles, is to generate some wave like vibrations of the shirt and the pants, like dolphin skin does, to decrease the air friction.

elzbardico 2y ago
Electric impulses are, roughly speaking, used as the signalling mechanism for muscles, not as the source of energy for their contraction.
- trhway 2y ago
  Like a pacemaker the external impulse is to help jerk the muscle as the tiredness sets in, not to directly provide energy. For direct energy consumption one can for example implant into legs small - just for several Newtons of force - electrically contracting kind of artificial tendon/muscle.