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Google Distributed Cloud air-gapped appliance
- anjul 2y ago[dead]
- dhosek 2y agoGiven the discontinuance of the Google search appliance, I would be reluctant to consider any Google hardware. I’d likely use something like PCF on owned hardware for the scenarios they describe.
- imglorp 2y agoWhen would someone reach for PCF now instead of K8s?
- gcbirzan 2y agoI mean, the search appliance was discontinued after 17 years. Not sure it's that bad...
- summerlight 2y agoAnd they supported their last search appliance over 10 years and provided a transition path toward cloud-based alternative. This is probably better than usual industry cases and I'm pretty sure Google wouldn't get this bad reputation if they adopted this case as their own product longevity standard.
- Proven 2y ago[dead]
- bryanlarsen 2y agoThe customer is the DoD. They know how to negotiate contracts to cover this scenario and have the clout to negotiate such and enforce it.
- gigatexal 2y agoAnd they’ll likely have a “this need to be supported for 50 years” provision too
- StephenAmar 2y agoWell, Google already distribute hardware to various ISP - it's called GGC (https://www.gstatic.com/isp/docs/ggc-installation.pdf?sjid=5170608463431358929-NC https://www.gstatic.com/isp/docs/ggc-installation.pdf?sjid=5...). We (GSA) & GGC used to source our hardware from the same supplier (Dell).
- vitus 2y agoOnly part of the GGC fleet are Dell machines (that pdf lists Dell, HP, and Equus). Paraphrasing one of the leads from some years back: "Single-vendor is not a vendor strategy." Between improved negotiating position and resilience to vendor-specific firmware bugs / vulnerabilities, the additional maintenance cost associated with supporting two or more platforms pays for itself very quickly.
- qmarchi 2y agoIn this particular case, they're the air-gapped product is singly dependent on HPE servers, mostly for compliance reasons. Same reason on why it uses Palo Alto firewalls. Though in the case of the GGC nodes, having multiple vendors was mostly a negotiating component. If we could go to HO and order 3000 servers and have them running, Dell loses a large amount of negotiating power. Being honest though, working with Dell was significantly better than working with HP or (especially) Equus. Former Google Employee, on GGC.
- martyvis 2y agoHP!=HPE for over 8 years now
- nunez 2y agoThis is very different. This is like if Anthos married a Toughbook. There are very real, very sticky use cases for this appliance.
- teractiveodular 2y agoThe Google Search Appliance was available from 2002 to 2019, which is a pretty decent run for a piece of IT hardware. Especially given that the average office environment looked quite different in 2002: the GSA was designed for indexing intranets (remember those?) and did not require any Internet connectivity at all.
- tjpnz 2y ago>the GSA was designed for indexing intranets (remember those?) Yet the problem of being able to find things still exists. That my "intranet" consists now of a bunch of cloud services accessible to the internet makes no functional difference.
- teractiveodular 2y agoIf it's accessible to the Internet, Google can make a private index for you with Cloud Search and you don't need a physical appliance. https://workspace.google.com/intl/en_au/products/cloud-search/ https://workspace.google.com/intl/en_au/products/cloud-searc...
- tyingq 2y agoThat doesn't read like it can login to anything other than Google services. Those internet intranets typically sit behind some kind of authentication.
- teractiveodular 2y agoDoes Cloud Search support third-party data? Yes, Cloud Search includes connectors to third-party data sources, such as Salesforce, SAP and more than 100 others.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Daviey 2y agoOne of my previous jobs had this appliance back >10-15 years ago, and honestly I'm yet to come across anything which assists with internal content discovery quite as well. I really miss it! (Side note, Confluence search is awful)
- lanstein 2y agoWe[0] have made this. Fully self-hosted. Confluence search is a particularly consistent pain point. [0] atolio.com
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- dilyevsky 2y agoThe post announces a physical (i presume) appliance and it’s just a wall of text and not a single photo. Mkay…
- r0n22 2y agoYeah I just wanted to see a picture of it
- wmf 2y agoI couldn't find any specs in the docs either. Welcome to enterprise.
- qmarchi 2y agoThere's a bit complexity there as the system is designed to be modular based on requirements. GPUs? Raw RAM? DC or AC? All different compoents that you can swap in/out.
- wmf 2y agoI would assume there's some kind of catalog or configuration guide y'all could publish but maybe not.
- breakingcups 2y agoNo, the obfuscation helps with setting "enterprise" prices.
- kristjansson 2y agoI mean this is literally their 'AI, but for TLAs' product. I'm kinda shocked there's a public announcement at all.
- surfingdino 2y agoIs the box painted yellow? That's all I want to know, and if you are old enough you will get the Google Search Appliance reference.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoWe had a blue mini appliance! Teardowns previously: https://rothgar.medium.com/google-mini-search-appliance-teardown-98ccc482bbae https://rothgar.medium.com/google-mini-search-appliance-tear... | http://1n73r.net/2012/12/11/google-mini-search-appliance-teardown/ http://1n73r.net/2012/12/11/google-mini-search-appliance-tea... https://www.anandtech.com/show/1781/3 https://www.anandtech.com/show/1781/3
- peanut-walrus 2y agoIt's for military applications so it's quite obviously green.
- qmarchi 2y agoIn this particular case, no, they're unbranded HP boxes, though some that have been deployed have GCP logos on the racks themselves.
- surfingdino 2y agoHow lame, Google used to be fun.
- karolist 2y agoparts of it is still is, you're just focusing on non fun parts
- andrecarini 2y agoIt's always fun trying to guess which product Google will sunset next month
- transpute 2y ago
- alpb 2y agoTruly puzzling why Google is doing these things that do not scale. Their DNA historically has been doing things for billions of users, not 10 companies that might ever pay for this. Google is a technology company through and through, they have a great engineering talent, and they can keep shifting paradigm in many areas, especially in cloud. Yet, the short-term profit motive of the rot economy is taking another tech giant hostage.
- ec109685 2y agoThis seems pretty adjacent to their existing cloud business not requiring major new investments and is likely a requirement to do bigger deals with customers.
- wmf 2y agoKurian = enterprise IT = high-margin low-scale customized solutions. In theory the long tail of the market is just as lucrative as the big head.
- arccy 2y agodepends if you define long tail as customer count vs contract size
- nkmskdmfodf 2y agoThat's what happens when you take your most productive/creative minds, thrown them in the trash, and replace them with greedy MBA drones.
- masto 2y agoDrones, indeed. Now your government's murderbots can be powered by Google Gemini.
- refulgentis 2y agoOne of the more interesting things was the MBAs don't run engineering, it was fascinating seeing how quickly the tide can go out on management quality, especially when you're growing 20% every year -- took maybe 4 years to form a new extremely agreeable layer over significantly worse quality than the one 2 layers above it. Kiss up, kick down.
- yunohn 2y agoThe post seems to really be vague around the obvious and most likely majority defense use cases this would be deployed for. It instead tries to emphasize all the other potential uses and mentions defense only as the final one with a generic quote from the air force. I think it’s very likely that’s due to historical Googler outrage against working with defense organizations.
- siliconc0w 2y agoI was hoping for a picture of a box with sundar's signature on it.
- lukeh 2y agoHa, very good.
- dmead 2y agoRichard, we're making the box.
- candiddevmike 2y agoIt'll be the next iteration, Sundar's signature edition.
- moandcompany 2y agoI'm glad they've finally learned to appreciate the conjoined triangles of success.
- louthy 2y agoLet me tell you a story ... in 1999, Google was a little startup, just like we are. And when they started bringing in chefs and masseuses, we thought, "They're nuts!" But, they were attracting the best possible people, and they were able to create the best product, and now they're worth over $400 billion. And ... do you know the name of that company? "Erm, ... Google" (gets me every time!)
- asah 2y agoCurious about open source licenses: this was a big problem for the Google search appliance IIRC
- rvnx 2y agoI spent tons of time with Google Search Appliance (at least 100 hours reverse-engineering it) it was just a CentOS machine with a daemon called Babysitter (which was just a loop restarting services), and a C++ binary called gws (Google Web Server). Fun fact, if you ran gws without its config files you would see the real front end for Google Search, News, etc. Web configuration interface was in Java, writing some XML templates if I remember well. So taking all of that, besides a very boring OS there was "nothing" or very little amount of open-source they were using. It was more all homemade (except the OS). Fun fact: There was a secret hardcoded password in clear (but only for physical access). EDIT: Password was different for each instance, not the same as I thought.
- StephenAmar 2y agoWell that's fun. I was the TL of the GSA platform team and you are mostly spot on. You are missing the whole crawling/indexing & security parts though. the GWS on the GSA was, tbh, one of the simplest component. Each GSA had a set of unique BIOS/root password generated during bootstrap though.
- rvnx 2y agoI edited the message, sorry for that mistake, I had assumed it was the same everywhere. It was great to see how it was engineered, some parts were truly remarkable, my main interest was to learn about the ranking algorithm (not for SEO purposes, but because I thought it was fun and interesting). We would have been in love 15 years ago when there was the GSA, sadly, our paths have separated :D
- leoh 2y agohttps://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1153&context=jdfsl https://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1153&co...
- mos_6502 2y agoThough other use cases for the appliance are given, it seems primarily designed for military applications? It's designed to military standards and to be as individually transportable as other military communications equipment: > Department of Defense (DoD) Impact Level 5 (IL5) accreditation > rugged and portable design that meets stringent accreditation requirements like MIL-STD-810H > The appliance can be conveniently transported in a rugged case > Weighing approximately 100lbs, it's human-portable, making it easy to transport and deploy in various locations. > disaster zones, remote research stations, or long-haul trucking operations Military operations are all three of these. Its design enables the offline self-hosting of cloud surveillance tools: > Google Distributed Cloud air-gapped appliance is designed to operate without any connectivity to Google Cloud or the public internet. The appliance remains fully functional in disconnected environments > built-in AI solutions from the Google Distributed Cloud air-gapped appliance like translation, speech, and optical character recognition What about facial recognition?
- caustic-view 2y ago[dead]
- akira2501 2y agoThe "smart border security system" is coming. This feels like it would be a "perfect" part of that looming disaster.
- Havoc 2y agoDoes anyone care about this except DoD?
- xiwenc 2y agoThe sad reality is probably not. I personally would prefer organizations to own their hardware as in the early age of internet. It was meant to be decentralized. However in the last 2 decades centralization has prevailed. I think it is sad because look at the CrowdStrike incident earlier this week. Or outages in AWS, cloudflare etc. These are examples why decentralization would give people/organizations power and control. This mentality of making it “someone else’s problem” with outsourcing is a fairy tale. In the end your business is at risk. Let alone the overhead and inefficiencies. Perhaps another analogy: if one eats out every day and never learnt how to cook a meal themselves. When the situation presents itself there is no cook around. One would probably starve or resort to simple food sources like whole fruits.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sneak 2y agoThis is to let the military use AI to help kill people. “Don’t be evil” is dead.
- rrdharan 2y ago> This is to let the military use AI to help kill people. So are your tax dollars, and some portion of any money you spend or any productive engagement you have with the economy wherever you live on this planet.
- sneak 2y agoThis is not a convincing argument for not engaging in voluntary trade with the morally bankrupt. It is, however, a pretty good argument for the moral basis for tax minimization and avoidance.
- greenavocado 2y agoMy tax dollars are used to bomb the middle east and there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. Voting is useless.
- fragmede 2y agoDonate to humanitarian aid organizations to offset your tax bomb dollars
- greenavocado 2y agoAlmost universally those funds are stolen in the name of administrative overhead
- thomasjudge 2y agoIt looks like this is an evolution of an offering they've had for some time: https://cloud.google.com/distributed-cloud#modern-experiences-at-the-edge-ai-security-and-open-source https://cloud.google.com/distributed-cloud#modern-experience...
- transpute 2y agoNeed: - photo/video - root of trust definition (TPM? OpenTitan?) - firmware and OS description - specs There's an edge device family from AWS, with specs and photos, https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/introducing-aws-snowcone-small-lightweight-edge-storage-and-processing/ https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/introducing-aws-snowcone-sm... > AWS Snow Family of physical edge computing, edge storage, and data transfer devices for rugged or disconnected environments.. can be used in a variety of environments including desktops, data centers, messenger bags, vehicles, and in conjunction with drones.. enclosure is both tamper-evident and tamper-resistant, and also uses a Trusted Platform Module (TPM) designed to ensure both security and full chain-of-custody for your data. The device encrypts data at rest and in transit using keys that are managed by AWS Key Management Service (AWS KMS) and are never stored on the device.. use Snowcone for data migration, content distribution, tactical edge computing, healthcare IoT, industrial IoT, transportation, logistics, and autonomous vehicle use cases. AWS Snowball hardware, https://youtube.com/watch?v=BIx9bbe58K8 https://youtube.com/watch?v=BIx9bbe58K8 GDC video of users and control panels, no hardware, https://youtube.com/watch?v=i5fCfgNaPE0 https://youtube.com/watch?v=i5fCfgNaPE0 With hardware expertise from servers, OpenCompute, Project Ara, Chromebooks, Pixels and TPUs, hopefully this appliance is more than a PC OEM whitebox.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago> The device encrypts data... using keys that are... never stored on the device.. Incredible!
- cyberax 2y agoNot really. They can just use a public key to encrypt ephemeral symmetric keys. The private key is stored inside AWS and is never exposed to the device.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y agoI guess that makes sense. So it's like a ballot box you can drop data into but only Amazon can pull it back out. Still a bit misleading. The public key is on the device (which is fine) and that's the key it uses to encrypt the data (if we consider the symmetric key as just a performance optimization)
- loloquwowndueo 2y agoThe Hooli/Pied Piper box - https://silicon-valley.fandom.com/wiki/The_box https://silicon-valley.fandom.com/wiki/The_box
- upon_drumhead 2y agoThis seems like GCP's version of AWS Outposts Servers https://aws.amazon.com/outposts/servers/ https://aws.amazon.com/outposts/servers/ Does Azure have a similar option?
- MarkSweep 2y agoTheir hardware is called Azure Stack Edge: https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/products/azure-stack/edge/ https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/products/azure-stack/edge/
- mvkel 2y agoFeels like something that will almost certainly be sunset in <2 years
- klipklop 2y agoWould never consider this after getting rug pulled when Google abandoned the search appliance. That was fun.
- gz5 2y agoUseful for a truly never-connected 'island' (meaning it never needs to speak to the outside world). However, even some of the use cases they cite rarely exist on a never-connected island, e.g. industrial automation and transportation. So, to be broadly applicable, it needs to be secure by design for connected use cases as well, even if those connections are considered to be ephemeral (e.g. remote management, periodic telemetry, metadata sharing, etc.).
- tammer 2y agohas anyone done an analysis on how much big tech revenue comes from the DoD, particularly as its changed over time?
- wslh 2y agoI wonder about the weight details and its fundamentals: "The device weighs about 100 lbs (~45.3 kg) and can be carried by two people. The device is not operational while it is moved from one location to the next. It might be moved on and off vehicles and might be subject to rougher treatment than in a data center. While the device is running, it might be in an uncontrolled environment subject to more temperature variations and dust than a data center, such as a tent or a repurposed building." [1] [1] https://cloud.google.com/distributed-cloud/hosted/docs/latest/appliance/overview https://cloud.google.com/distributed-cloud/hosted/docs/lates...
- int0x29 2y agoIt's interesting watching silicon valley buzzwords mix with DOD speak.
- RedShift1 2y agoSo basically a local server. Guess we're on trailing edge of "move everything to cloud" now, slowly eeking back into having more local infrastructure again.
- Cockbrand 2y agoIt's not a local server! It's a hyperconverged system, as explained on the product page [0]. Which is, I assume, a very fancy expression for a local server. [0] https://cloud.google.com/distributed-cloud/hosted/docs/latest/appliance/overview https://cloud.google.com/distributed-cloud/hosted/docs/lates...
- moondev 2y ago> GDC air-gapped appliance consists of a chassis that holds three blades and a switch. Customers must provide their own laptop to use as an admin workstation for installing the software and performing upgrades. It's borderline criminal that they don't include a picture of this thing. Let's see this thing!
- ozfive 2y ago> Previously, organizations with mission-critical workloads lacked access to important cloud and AI capabilities when in demanding edge environments, including those that present unique challenges and requirements. I'm sorry, what???
- hksgdk 2y ago[flagged]
- albertP 2y agoYou're another GPT bot : ( https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=hksgdk https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=hksgdk Your comments have all the same structure: - general statement - further development - rhetorical question
- defrost 2y agoThere's a slew of bot-army template comments from new-ish accounts, getting comment credit to work up to voting rights for a spruiking up-vote spree. 38 in the last hour & a half: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=bbkj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=bbkj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=bhjgjy https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=bhjgjy https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=bjgiusg https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=bjgiusg https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=bkjshki https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=bkjshki https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=dfgdgf https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=dfgdgf https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=ebjjbsd https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=ebjjbsd https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=gjsgdj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=gjsgdj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=gssa https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=gssa https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=hksgdk https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=hksgdk https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=hsag https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=hsag https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=jhkug https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=jhkug https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=kidfkj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=kidfkj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=kjlojpo https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=kjlojpo https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=kkjkj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=kkjkj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=lihli https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=lihli https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=linkjp https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=linkjp https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=lndsh https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=lndsh https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=lpod https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=lpod https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=masjl https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=masjl https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mknux https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mknux https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mkpp https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mkpp https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mncsz https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mncsz https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mnjksd https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mnjksd https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=nklhlk https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=nklhlk https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=nknld https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=nknld https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=nsjolj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=nsjolj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=oiphl https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=oiphl https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pdjljl https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pdjljl https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pljldos https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=pljldos https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=qresf https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=qresf https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=tfhfj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=tfhfj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=tgjk https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=tgjk https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=uhjk https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=uhjk https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=whjkh https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=whjkh https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=whlh https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=whlh https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=xgfh https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=xgfh https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=ybj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=ybj https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=yijjb https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=yijjb
- caustic-view 2y ago[dead]
- sgt 2y agoThis reminds me when Sun Microsystems launched a data center inside a shipping container that you could literally buy and have it deployed anywhere. Great for on-premise "cloud" computing (before cloud was a thing) or in war zones if that was your thing.
- kjellsbells 2y agoIt's telling that all the hyperscalers keep taking runs at this, driven by the DoD. I'm not sure anyone is making money at it though. Azure tried with Stack Hub (private airgapped cloud), Stack Edge (various options, including ruggedized, gpu enabled, battery powered, rackable). The JEDI contract didnt amount to much so I dont know if this range has a future. AWS have tried with outposts and the snow family. Seems to be doing ok in the commercial space. Now google. They all seem to have some weird genesis as data transfer gateways (looks like a local network share, but really sends data back to S3 or some other cloud store), and they all seem to have weird compromises that the disconnected nature forces upon them. For example you need to connect the box to the cloud at least once every 30 days to have it sync to the mother ship, or whatever. I wish them well on this but I doubt it will be much more than a tickbox for government contracts and won't see much live deployment. If google came out with a range of box designs that fit in a backpack or a VPX chassis, could be spared and replaced in the field by any vendor in the defense industrial space, could run disconnected for 120 days or more without degrading, could be operated by an 18 year old under duress in a combat environment (no one is following a manual at that point, it needs to be "turn the key and oress the big red button" simple) and could seamlessly upgrade/clean themselves up when reconnected to the cloud back at base, they'd certainly have my attention. Oh and given the geo situation, maybe made from components that have alternatives not made in Taiwan.
- eitally 2y agoWith Google, I have a feeling it largely evolved from two other things [that weren't the DoD]. Google never really tried to sell to Defense until JEDI, and didn't really have a compelling solution at the time to the need for FedRAMP High requirements. However, what Google did have was a business need to offer GCP in mainland China, and a partnership with Tencent to do so. Additionally, after Thomas Kurian joined, Google also had a willingness to partner with KSA as a tangential part of the overall NEOM investment, but with the hyperscaler providing a dedicated region in Saudia Arabia and in exchange potentially getting heavy commercial workloads from Aramco and other KSA entities. Google already had Sovereign Cloud experience, having built out a data center in Germany (that, among other things, SAP uses for internal development), so it wasn't a huge leap to go from the hoops they had to jump through to offer this combo of stuff all in one package: * Interconnect partnerships (Oracle Bare Metal, Tencent) * Integrated management console (Tencent, Anthos) * Sovereign Cloud services (US Gov't, European governments) Beyond all this, Google has been offering CDN appliances for ages, and space in local POPs for 3rd parties (like Netflix) to install their edge appliances, so it's not like there were any skills gaps on the networking side, either. The real question will be whether the hyerscalers will be able to viably sell these sorts of appliances vs their potential customers just running their own data centers and virtual data centers.
- ilumanty 2y agoLadies and gentlemen, the Gavin Belson Signature Box!
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- iandanforth 2y agoWhy does it weigh 100lbs?
- derefr 2y agoSounds very military… and yet I see no mention of a suite of remotely-armable tamper sensors built into the hardware, that would enable automatic scorched-earth wiping of sensitive data if their guys manage to shoot your guys and march into your DC. (Or more importantly, if this thing is just sitting there in a remote unmanned outpost, and their guys find it. If you have no humans to implement a scorched-earth policy, the infra needs to be capable of doing it itself.) I find this especially strange, as tamper-responsiveness is usually a headline feature following the words “mil-spec ruggedized server.” (See e.g. this thing: https://privatemachines.com/ https://privatemachines.com/)
- alannahorst 2y ago[dead]