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I wonder what a sensible way forward for Cubans is, and their government. What would it take for the US to lift sanctions (I assume a radical shift within Cuba'

I wonder what a sensible way forward for Cubans is, and their government. What would it take for the US to lift sanctions (I assume a radical shift within Cuba's government), and for Cuba itself (as a whole) to restructure their government in a way that would benefit them and everyone. Cuba would be a great travel destination. Their cigars aren't as on par anymore as far as I know, but there's potential there, Nicaragua and Dominican Republic basically make the best ones last I checked.

wkat4242 2y ago
Why does the US still have sanctions on them anyway? The missile crisis was 50 years ago. It's time to forgive.
- stackskipton 2y ago
  Politics. Florida used to be swing state in Presidential Elections. The Cuban community in Florida loses their shit if President talks about lifting the sanctions and will vote other way. If all Cubans had settled in California or Wyoming, we likely would have lifted sanctions a long time ago since they wouldn't have as much political power. It's why we lifted sanctions on Vietnam so long ago. Vietnamese who fled mostly immigrated to California and can't impact California voting Democrat.
  - rqtwteye 2y ago
    It almost seems the Cuban exiles want the people they left behind in Cuba to suffer as much as possible. What else have the sanctions achieved?
    - stackskipton 2y ago
      There seems to be a belief that if sanctions remain THIS YEAR, regime change will come to Cuba. It didn't work. Well, NEXT YEAR they will, they have to! Repeat for 50 years. Most people fleeing Cuba blame current regime for their suffering with good reason. So they have a desire to see it overthrown.
      - LtWorf 2y ago
        [flagged]
        logicchains 2y ago
        Nobody made south America poor; like every continent poverty was the natural state. South America just did a worse job at developing the infrastructure, rule of law, institutions and culture necessary to lift itself out of poverty as fast as north America. With the exception of Argentina, which after WW2 was one of the richest countries in the world, but through bad political choices ended up impoverishing itself.
        actionfromafar 2y ago
        Idle thought - I wonder how much the German contingent had to do with these choices.
        marcosdumay 2y ago
        That quite a wild thing to say about an entire continent whose politics were almost completely manipulated by some 2 powerful countries after WW2. > which after WW2 was one of the richest countries in the world Oh yeah, I wonder what changed then.
        bugglebeetle 2y ago
        If you have any desire to not be remarkably ignorant of 20th century history, I’d suggest spending a few minutes reading about who in North America did a bunch of coups and otherwise created the conditions for a lack of rule of law in South America.
        LtWorf 2y ago
        It's entirely their fault if the CIA keeps giving money to terrorists. No other country is involved with that.
        seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        What does South America have to do with Cuba? And why do you assume that South America is poor? Much of South America enjoys a high standard of living, and is nowhere near as poor as most of Central America, for example, and definitely much richer than Africa.
    - labrador 2y ago
      I'm surprised at this take. It seems readily apparent that Cuban exiles want their countrymen and women to be free from state communist control and have the ability to speak their mind, practice economic freedom and their religion, which is I understand is very Catholic from Spanish influences. I don't know how you can say Cuban exiles want the people they left behind to suffer.
      - rqtwteye 2y ago
        I am saying that because the sanctions haven't achieved anything positive for the last decades. At some point people just have to admit that they don't work but cause a lot of suffering. I bet if the US traded with Cuba, the communist regime would quickly fall apart like the Eastern block did.
        kgwgk 2y ago
        That's right. US trade with China has exploded in the last couple of decades and China's communist regime is falling apart quickly.
        rqtwteye 2y ago
        I wouldn’t call China a communist regime. They are highly capitalist. What’s communist about China other than the name of the party?
        ospider 2y ago
        The lifetime dictatorship like any other communist nations in the world.
    - more_corn 2y ago
      People who left want to put pressure on the government that they hate and they don’t mind sanctioning the people to do it.
- vundercind 2y ago
  A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in a single US state can influence policy and make a whole bunch more lives worse for no good reason. AFAIK that’s basically the story.
  - zdragnar 2y ago
    I think that's really underselling the political persecution that many have suffered in Cuba. It's far and away from just wanting reparations for land grabs. We have sanctions on Cuba for the same reason we have sanctions on Russia and Venezuela now- we don't want to fund what their government is doing, and allying with them gives us little to nothing in return. That said, it's pretty obvious that economic sanctions aren't bringing about regime change. I don't think anyone has the stomach for putting boots on the ground, though.
    - joshlemer 2y ago
      It may not in the short or medium term cause regime change, but sufficiently large sanctions on a country do stop it from growing in influence, wealth and power. Eventually, after some number of generations, Cuba could be so poor in comparison to the rising tide of the rest of the world, that it's not even able to defend itself or maintain government control. At some point, the disparity in power becomes overwhelming and you have super high tech society surrounding stone age cave men.
      - dullcrisp 2y ago
        Can that really happen? Won’t one of the visiting tourists bring news of the wheel or what have you eventually? Seems more likely sanctions would cause a steady state where the sanctioned country is some n months/years behind where it would otherwise be, speaking as a complete geopolitical layman anyway.
- idontwantthis 2y ago
  Obama began easing them and opened up travel and then Trump put them all back to win Florida. Democrats took an L for freedom, prosperity and common sense and Republicans capitalized to win back the presidency.
- joshlemer 2y ago
  62 years ago.
- ks2048 2y ago
  The message is: if you refuse to be our puppet state and play by our rules, we will destroy you for as long as it takes. Anyone who believes the US acts to punish evil authoritarians in defense of freedom and democracy is delusional. Look at our allies in the middle east.
- riffic 2y ago
  more than 60 years ago actually.
- dimitrios1 2y ago
  https://thehill.com/opinion/4723678-cuba-russian-relations-come-full-circle-why-us-policy-must-reflect-this-reality/ https://thehill.com/opinion/4723678-cuba-russian-relations-c...
- sremani 2y ago
  A hostile regime 90 miles from US mainland will be treated differently. Cuba is not some vanilla leftist regime that has no love for America. Cuban intelligence and elite for the past 50 years have been active subverting US interests. A unilateral withdrawal of sanctions would mean rewarding bad behavior. Do not let the small size of Cuba underestimate them, they are behind all major anti-American activity in Latin America. They were are major force supporting Maduro in Venezuela. Why does not the Communist regime in Cuba "open up"? Because they know the day Cuba becomes a multiparty state with elections -- they have to run out of the country. Both Cuban and Venezuelan elite along with many Caribbean states are active in Drug Dealings and Money Laundering. Yes, the hawks in US have a role but they are not only active players, there are hawks in Cuba too.
  - rubytubido 2y ago
    > A unilateral withdrawal of sanctions would mean rewarding bad behavior. Do something horrible to your neighbour - be surprised that he doesn't keep good behaviour torwards you.
- dakiol 2y ago
  Why did the US drop 2 nuclear bombs on Japan? Why the US is keeping Israel as their toy? Why the US entered the Vietnam war (hint: no, not to avoid the spread of communism). US is the bad boy of this planet, just because they can.
  - rangestransform 2y ago
    All that I have to say about this is that it’s a shame that the people of the US and western “imperialist” world do not reap more benefits from this
  - Gibbon1 2y ago
    > Why did the US drop 2 nuclear bombs on Japan? Japan declared war on the US. Didn't surrender when it became obvious they were going to lose and instead decided to inflict as many casualties on the as they could on the way down. So they got nuked. > Why the US is keeping Israel as their toy? The US inherited a lot of messes after WWII. Not really the US fault the Palestinians always make bad choices. > Why the US entered the Vietnam war (hint: no, not to avoid the spread of communism) Hint you are 100% self servingly wrong about that. > US is the bad boy of this planet, just because they can I've come to the opinion people that say this are upset that the US stands in the way of some nastiness they want to inflict on someone.
  - rubytubido 2y ago
    But they did it to protect the planet. We need to enforce "democracy" and spread capitalism.
    - Log_out_ 2y ago
      Hope you do get paid faster in rubles for agitating then the hyperinflation.
    - incahoots 2y ago
      and agent orange, and destroy literally everything before we tail it back to our own country, not before we tell our vets to “suck it up” and bootstrap their PTSD due to exposure of aforementioned war crimes.
- nextweek2 2y ago
  It’s an authoritarian government without free elections right on the US doorstep. Cubans are oppressed.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
toast0 2y ago
> Cuba would be a great travel destination. It's been a while since I visited places outside the US, but one of the shocking things was travel ads for Cuba everywhere. From what I can tell, US-Cuban relations seem to be at the whim of the US President. Most of the US population doesn't care; most of the rest of the world has fine relations with Cuba, but isn't going to pressure the US. Nobody is sending missiles to Cuba anymore.
- duskwuff 2y ago
  > Nobody is sending missiles to Cuba anymore. Or are they? https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/12/americas/russian-navy-cuba-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/12/americas/russian-navy-cuba-in...
  - astromaniak 2y ago
    Still no. Just a visit, doesn't look like Cuba has any wish to become Russia's military fortress. From Russia side all decisions are made by a single person who is not thinking big. Cuba would be quite expensive. Ukraine is more then enough for Putin, unlikely he wants a new 'adventure'.
    - rubytubido 2y ago
      > Ukraine is more then enough for Putin What about propaganda where he will capture the whole EU after Ukraine?
      - throwawayq3423 2y ago
        > propaganda You mean his own words? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-ally-warns-enemy-poland-you-risk-losing-your-statehood-2023-11-02/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-ally-warns-enemy-...
        input_sh 2y ago
        Medvedev's not Putin, he's Putin's useful idiot, a provocateur, west's bogeyman. The only time he makes the news in the west is when he mentions nuking some random European country, which for the record happens quite frequently. You should never take anything he says seriously.
stefan_ 2y ago
> What would it take for the US to lift sanctions Florida to stop being a swing state? We are almost there..
- bee_rider 2y ago
  I have only seen Florida disappoint Democratic candidates. It is a trick state. Should basically be ignored.
ashconnor 2y ago
> Cuba would be a great travel destination. Careful visiting if you want to use the ESTA to visit the United States. https://ogletree.com/insights-resources/blog-posts/u-s-visa-waiver-program-impact-of-travel-to-cuba/ https://ogletree.com/insights-resources/blog-posts/u-s-visa-...
astromaniak 2y ago
> Cuba would be a great travel destination There are many similar destinations, and all of them are still poor. Besides, Cuba has already tourists from Canada and Europe. My guess their best chance is to start manufacturing for cheap. Close to US makes them more competitive. But for this to happen commies government has to go.
- LtWorf 2y ago
  [flagged]
abernard1 2y ago
> What would it take for the US to lift sanctions (I assume a radical shift within Cuba's government), and for Cuba itself (as a whole) to restructure their government in a way that would benefit them and everyone. It's irrelevant. Hard-line socialist countries don't voluntarily decide to change their government: their countries collapse and start over again. While sanctions on Cuba are irrelevant to the US these days, it doesn't change the fact that Cuba would be a dysfunctional society in any case. Venezuela was a resource rich nation and 7.7 million people fled (>20% of the population). The Soviet Union was one of the most resource-rich entities in the world, with similar failures. I find it somewhat astonishing that people in tech—an industry built around the belief that well-built systems can produce good results—are so dismissive of the role of agency when it comes to these issues. Somehow it's America's fault that people are leaving Cuba, Venezuela, Mexico... and left to their own devices, those places would be paradise.
- walleeee 2y ago
  > Hardline ~~socialist~~ countries This is true of any regime which refuses to adapt to reality. And in any case it's more or less tautological: a "hardliner" is defined precisely by the refusal to budge even when it might be to their benefit.
- keybored 2y ago
  Hardline socialist countries sometimes survive. Less hardline socialist countries get coup’ed or otherwise brutally interfered with (e.g. Chile).
standardUser 2y ago
Obama opened up travel to Cuba. I went just months after his historic visit. There were still limitations, such as with currency, that made it a somewhat complicated travel destination. It would require more significant changes to make it a go-to vacation spot, but it's generally believed that is within presidential power. Trump reverted the relationship back to Cold War status when he took office.
rubiquity 2y ago
> Nicaragua and Dominican Republic basically make the best ones last I checked. You’re going to need sources on that. Cubans are still the best dollar for dollar.
aconsult1 2y ago
I've been smoking cigars for the past 15 years. I was lucky enough to have smoked only cuban cigars (which are legal where I'm from), so I know them very well. Nicaragua and Dominican Republic are garbage compared to Cubans, still to this day. Several times while in the US (where I've lived in the past few years) I tried to smoke non-cuban cigars. Not once I found something that was remotely close to the worse cuban I've had. My basic understanding is because of two factors: 1. The tobacco doesn't grow anywhere else like it does in Cuba. It's an island with very specific combination of soil and weather that can't be replicated. The tobacco leafs are huge in Cuba and that makes a big difference when making a cigar which ideally should use as few leafs as possible. 2. The best workers that know how to select, blend and roll a cigar are still all in Cuba. Other countries tried to replicate but they don't come close in terms of skills and knowledge. I don't have sources for the two factors above but my experience tells me it adds up. I only heard people complimenting non-cuban cigars here in the US. Nowhere else. Which sounds fair or else the entire cigar industry would have gone bankrupt without access to the best stuff. Overtime you won't find people in the US who understands what a cuban cigar is like because they have no exposure to it.
- akho 2y ago
  I'm not in the US. While the tobacco itself is unbeatable, Cuban cigars have quality control issues. You regularly run into draw issues, for example. Aging is typically required for best experience, which also isn't easy. I smoke Olivas and Arturo Fuentes regularly, despite having access to Cubans.
  - aconsult1 2y ago
    I agree with your statement on quality control issues. Also fake cigars are a huge problem. I've heard about many cases of cigars made in Cuba by "freelancers" and then sold in repurposed boxes and labels. Those aren't terrible cigars, but definitely not great. I'll try those 2 you mentioned and see if it's to my taste. Dona Flor, made in Brazil, are pretty decent. Unfortunately they are not easy to come by near where I live.
    - 2y ago
ossobuco 2y ago
> What would it take for the US to lift sanctions Open the doors to US investors to exploit every single resource Cuba has to offer. Kicking out Batista the dictator and closing those doors was the reason sanctions were applied in the first place.
slantedview 2y ago
> What would it take for the US to lift sanctions If you understand the origin of the sanctions against Cuba, you know the answer to this question is that the US wants control over Cuba and their resources.
Log_out_ 2y ago
Made it to 2nd sentence, before they made it about us.

wkat4242 2y ago

Why does the US still have sanctions on them anyway? The missile crisis was 50 years ago. It's time to forgive.

stackskipton 2y ago
Politics. Florida used to be swing state in Presidential Elections. The Cuban community in Florida loses their shit if President talks about lifting the sanctions and will vote other way. If all Cubans had settled in California or Wyoming, we likely would have lifted sanctions a long time ago since they wouldn't have as much political power. It's why we lifted sanctions on Vietnam so long ago. Vietnamese who fled mostly immigrated to California and can't impact California voting Democrat.
- rqtwteye 2y ago
  It almost seems the Cuban exiles want the people they left behind in Cuba to suffer as much as possible. What else have the sanctions achieved?
  - stackskipton 2y ago
    There seems to be a belief that if sanctions remain THIS YEAR, regime change will come to Cuba. It didn't work. Well, NEXT YEAR they will, they have to! Repeat for 50 years. Most people fleeing Cuba blame current regime for their suffering with good reason. So they have a desire to see it overthrown.
    - LtWorf 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - logicchains 2y ago
        Nobody made south America poor; like every continent poverty was the natural state. South America just did a worse job at developing the infrastructure, rule of law, institutions and culture necessary to lift itself out of poverty as fast as north America. With the exception of Argentina, which after WW2 was one of the richest countries in the world, but through bad political choices ended up impoverishing itself.
        actionfromafar 2y ago
        Idle thought - I wonder how much the German contingent had to do with these choices.
        marcosdumay 2y ago
        That quite a wild thing to say about an entire continent whose politics were almost completely manipulated by some 2 powerful countries after WW2. > which after WW2 was one of the richest countries in the world Oh yeah, I wonder what changed then.
        bugglebeetle 2y ago
        If you have any desire to not be remarkably ignorant of 20th century history, I’d suggest spending a few minutes reading about who in North America did a bunch of coups and otherwise created the conditions for a lack of rule of law in South America.
        LtWorf 2y ago
        It's entirely their fault if the CIA keeps giving money to terrorists. No other country is involved with that.
      - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
        What does South America have to do with Cuba? And why do you assume that South America is poor? Much of South America enjoys a high standard of living, and is nowhere near as poor as most of Central America, for example, and definitely much richer than Africa.
  - labrador 2y ago
    I'm surprised at this take. It seems readily apparent that Cuban exiles want their countrymen and women to be free from state communist control and have the ability to speak their mind, practice economic freedom and their religion, which is I understand is very Catholic from Spanish influences. I don't know how you can say Cuban exiles want the people they left behind to suffer.
    - rqtwteye 2y ago
      I am saying that because the sanctions haven't achieved anything positive for the last decades. At some point people just have to admit that they don't work but cause a lot of suffering. I bet if the US traded with Cuba, the communist regime would quickly fall apart like the Eastern block did.
      - kgwgk 2y ago
        That's right. US trade with China has exploded in the last couple of decades and China's communist regime is falling apart quickly.
        rqtwteye 2y ago
        I wouldn’t call China a communist regime. They are highly capitalist. What’s communist about China other than the name of the party?
        ospider 2y ago
        The lifetime dictatorship like any other communist nations in the world.
  - more_corn 2y ago
    People who left want to put pressure on the government that they hate and they don’t mind sanctioning the people to do it.
vundercind 2y ago
A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in a single US state can influence policy and make a whole bunch more lives worse for no good reason. AFAIK that’s basically the story.
- zdragnar 2y ago
  I think that's really underselling the political persecution that many have suffered in Cuba. It's far and away from just wanting reparations for land grabs. We have sanctions on Cuba for the same reason we have sanctions on Russia and Venezuela now- we don't want to fund what their government is doing, and allying with them gives us little to nothing in return. That said, it's pretty obvious that economic sanctions aren't bringing about regime change. I don't think anyone has the stomach for putting boots on the ground, though.
  - joshlemer 2y ago
    It may not in the short or medium term cause regime change, but sufficiently large sanctions on a country do stop it from growing in influence, wealth and power. Eventually, after some number of generations, Cuba could be so poor in comparison to the rising tide of the rest of the world, that it's not even able to defend itself or maintain government control. At some point, the disparity in power becomes overwhelming and you have super high tech society surrounding stone age cave men.
    - dullcrisp 2y ago
      Can that really happen? Won’t one of the visiting tourists bring news of the wheel or what have you eventually? Seems more likely sanctions would cause a steady state where the sanctioned country is some n months/years behind where it would otherwise be, speaking as a complete geopolitical layman anyway.
idontwantthis 2y ago
Obama began easing them and opened up travel and then Trump put them all back to win Florida. Democrats took an L for freedom, prosperity and common sense and Republicans capitalized to win back the presidency.
joshlemer 2y ago
62 years ago.
ks2048 2y ago
The message is: if you refuse to be our puppet state and play by our rules, we will destroy you for as long as it takes. Anyone who believes the US acts to punish evil authoritarians in defense of freedom and democracy is delusional. Look at our allies in the middle east.
riffic 2y ago
more than 60 years ago actually.
dimitrios1 2y ago
https://thehill.com/opinion/4723678-cuba-russian-relations-come-full-circle-why-us-policy-must-reflect-this-reality/ https://thehill.com/opinion/4723678-cuba-russian-relations-c...
sremani 2y ago
A hostile regime 90 miles from US mainland will be treated differently. Cuba is not some vanilla leftist regime that has no love for America. Cuban intelligence and elite for the past 50 years have been active subverting US interests. A unilateral withdrawal of sanctions would mean rewarding bad behavior. Do not let the small size of Cuba underestimate them, they are behind all major anti-American activity in Latin America. They were are major force supporting Maduro in Venezuela. Why does not the Communist regime in Cuba "open up"? Because they know the day Cuba becomes a multiparty state with elections -- they have to run out of the country. Both Cuban and Venezuelan elite along with many Caribbean states are active in Drug Dealings and Money Laundering. Yes, the hawks in US have a role but they are not only active players, there are hawks in Cuba too.
- rubytubido 2y ago
  > A unilateral withdrawal of sanctions would mean rewarding bad behavior. Do something horrible to your neighbour - be surprised that he doesn't keep good behaviour torwards you.
dakiol 2y ago
Why did the US drop 2 nuclear bombs on Japan? Why the US is keeping Israel as their toy? Why the US entered the Vietnam war (hint: no, not to avoid the spread of communism). US is the bad boy of this planet, just because they can.
- rangestransform 2y ago
  All that I have to say about this is that it’s a shame that the people of the US and western “imperialist” world do not reap more benefits from this
- Gibbon1 2y ago
  > Why did the US drop 2 nuclear bombs on Japan? Japan declared war on the US. Didn't surrender when it became obvious they were going to lose and instead decided to inflict as many casualties on the as they could on the way down. So they got nuked. > Why the US is keeping Israel as their toy? The US inherited a lot of messes after WWII. Not really the US fault the Palestinians always make bad choices. > Why the US entered the Vietnam war (hint: no, not to avoid the spread of communism) Hint you are 100% self servingly wrong about that. > US is the bad boy of this planet, just because they can I've come to the opinion people that say this are upset that the US stands in the way of some nastiness they want to inflict on someone.
- rubytubido 2y ago
  But they did it to protect the planet. We need to enforce "democracy" and spread capitalism.
  - Log_out_ 2y ago
    Hope you do get paid faster in rubles for agitating then the hyperinflation.
  - incahoots 2y ago
    and agent orange, and destroy literally everything before we tail it back to our own country, not before we tell our vets to “suck it up” and bootstrap their PTSD due to exposure of aforementioned war crimes.
nextweek2 2y ago
It’s an authoritarian government without free elections right on the US doorstep. Cubans are oppressed.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

toast0 2y ago

> Cuba would be a great travel destination. It's been a while since I visited places outside the US, but one of the shocking things was travel ads for Cuba everywhere. From what I can tell, US-Cuban relations seem to be at the whim of the US President. Most of the US population doesn't care; most of the rest of the world has fine relations with Cuba, but isn't going to pressure the US. Nobody is sending missiles to Cuba anymore.

duskwuff 2y ago
> Nobody is sending missiles to Cuba anymore. Or are they? https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/12/americas/russian-navy-cuba-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/12/americas/russian-navy-cuba-in...
- astromaniak 2y ago
  Still no. Just a visit, doesn't look like Cuba has any wish to become Russia's military fortress. From Russia side all decisions are made by a single person who is not thinking big. Cuba would be quite expensive. Ukraine is more then enough for Putin, unlikely he wants a new 'adventure'.
  - rubytubido 2y ago
    > Ukraine is more then enough for Putin What about propaganda where he will capture the whole EU after Ukraine?
    - throwawayq3423 2y ago
      > propaganda You mean his own words? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-ally-warns-enemy-poland-you-risk-losing-your-statehood-2023-11-02/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-ally-warns-enemy-...
      - input_sh 2y ago
        Medvedev's not Putin, he's Putin's useful idiot, a provocateur, west's bogeyman. The only time he makes the news in the west is when he mentions nuking some random European country, which for the record happens quite frequently. You should never take anything he says seriously.

stefan_ 2y ago

> What would it take for the US to lift sanctions Florida to stop being a swing state? We are almost there..

bee_rider 2y ago
I have only seen Florida disappoint Democratic candidates. It is a trick state. Should basically be ignored.

ashconnor 2y ago

> Cuba would be a great travel destination. Careful visiting if you want to use the ESTA to visit the United States. https://ogletree.com/insights-resources/blog-posts/u-s-visa-waiver-program-impact-of-travel-to-cuba/ https://ogletree.com/insights-resources/blog-posts/u-s-visa-...

astromaniak 2y ago

> Cuba would be a great travel destination There are many similar destinations, and all of them are still poor. Besides, Cuba has already tourists from Canada and Europe. My guess their best chance is to start manufacturing for cheap. Close to US makes them more competitive. But for this to happen commies government has to go.

LtWorf 2y ago
[flagged]

abernard1 2y ago

> What would it take for the US to lift sanctions (I assume a radical shift within Cuba's government), and for Cuba itself (as a whole) to restructure their government in a way that would benefit them and everyone. It's irrelevant. Hard-line socialist countries don't voluntarily decide to change their government: their countries collapse and start over again. While sanctions on Cuba are irrelevant to the US these days, it doesn't change the fact that Cuba would be a dysfunctional society in any case. Venezuela was a resource rich nation and 7.7 million people fled (>20% of the population). The Soviet Union was one of the most resource-rich entities in the world, with similar failures. I find it somewhat astonishing that people in tech—an industry built around the belief that well-built systems can produce good results—are so dismissive of the role of agency when it comes to these issues. Somehow it's America's fault that people are leaving Cuba, Venezuela, Mexico... and left to their own devices, those places would be paradise.

walleeee 2y ago
> Hardline ~~socialist~~ countries This is true of any regime which refuses to adapt to reality. And in any case it's more or less tautological: a "hardliner" is defined precisely by the refusal to budge even when it might be to their benefit.
keybored 2y ago
Hardline socialist countries sometimes survive. Less hardline socialist countries get coup’ed or otherwise brutally interfered with (e.g. Chile).

standardUser 2y ago

Obama opened up travel to Cuba. I went just months after his historic visit. There were still limitations, such as with currency, that made it a somewhat complicated travel destination. It would require more significant changes to make it a go-to vacation spot, but it's generally believed that is within presidential power. Trump reverted the relationship back to Cold War status when he took office.

rubiquity 2y ago

> Nicaragua and Dominican Republic basically make the best ones last I checked. You’re going to need sources on that. Cubans are still the best dollar for dollar.

aconsult1 2y ago

I've been smoking cigars for the past 15 years. I was lucky enough to have smoked only cuban cigars (which are legal where I'm from), so I know them very well. Nicaragua and Dominican Republic are garbage compared to Cubans, still to this day. Several times while in the US (where I've lived in the past few years) I tried to smoke non-cuban cigars. Not once I found something that was remotely close to the worse cuban I've had. My basic understanding is because of two factors: 1. The tobacco doesn't grow anywhere else like it does in Cuba. It's an island with very specific combination of soil and weather that can't be replicated. The tobacco leafs are huge in Cuba and that makes a big difference when making a cigar which ideally should use as few leafs as possible. 2. The best workers that know how to select, blend and roll a cigar are still all in Cuba. Other countries tried to replicate but they don't come close in terms of skills and knowledge. I don't have sources for the two factors above but my experience tells me it adds up. I only heard people complimenting non-cuban cigars here in the US. Nowhere else. Which sounds fair or else the entire cigar industry would have gone bankrupt without access to the best stuff. Overtime you won't find people in the US who understands what a cuban cigar is like because they have no exposure to it.

akho 2y ago
I'm not in the US. While the tobacco itself is unbeatable, Cuban cigars have quality control issues. You regularly run into draw issues, for example. Aging is typically required for best experience, which also isn't easy. I smoke Olivas and Arturo Fuentes regularly, despite having access to Cubans.
- aconsult1 2y ago
  I agree with your statement on quality control issues. Also fake cigars are a huge problem. I've heard about many cases of cigars made in Cuba by "freelancers" and then sold in repurposed boxes and labels. Those aren't terrible cigars, but definitely not great. I'll try those 2 you mentioned and see if it's to my taste. Dona Flor, made in Brazil, are pretty decent. Unfortunately they are not easy to come by near where I live.
  - 2y ago

ossobuco 2y ago

> What would it take for the US to lift sanctions Open the doors to US investors to exploit every single resource Cuba has to offer. Kicking out Batista the dictator and closing those doors was the reason sanctions were applied in the first place.

slantedview 2y ago

> What would it take for the US to lift sanctions If you understand the origin of the sanctions against Cuba, you know the answer to this question is that the US wants control over Cuba and their resources.

Log_out_ 2y ago

Made it to 2nd sentence, before they made it about us.