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> most corporations do use Windows Not really. They put it on desktop with packaged software. The software they develop themselves run almost exclusively on L

> most corporations do use Windows Not really. They put it on desktop with packaged software. The software they develop themselves run almost exclusively on Linux.

epgui 2y ago
Speaking as someone who happily lives in the mac engineering bubble and has very little interest in leaving said bubble… We tend to dramatically under-estimate the market share of Windows in engineering. I have no trouble believing that most companies run Windows and develop on Windows. I just don’t particularly want to work for these companies.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  Microsoft itself doesn't recommend that you deploy software on Windows servers anymore. It's something that is supported, not recommended.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  A lot of engineers who use windows aren’t programmers. This is because a lot of custom engineering packages that require windows, especially since they were developed 20 years ago when windows was dominate. But programmers have many more choices, and visual studio shops aren’t very common anymore, at least in the developed world, and I would bet countries like Russia and China as well.
  - watwut 2y ago
    Quite a lot of programmers use windows, because they require less maintenance and there is no reason not to.
    - owl57 2y ago
      Are you sure any of the three major operating systems require much maintenance these days?
      - xprn 2y ago
        At least for linux, I would assume that it hugely comes down to how much of a personal statement the OS is to developers. I use Arch btw.
        owl57 2y ago
        Well, yes, "Linux" is not well-specified. When one installs Arch, they hopefully know what they want, and it's something else than just a low-maintenance casual desktop OS. :)
    - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
      Mac’s don’t require much maintenance either, and last longer then Lenovo things. When I worked tech in Beijing already a lot of programmers used them, even in changping around Lenovo’s big R&D office.
  - oefrha 2y ago
    You don’t have to be a Visual Studio shop to use Windows machines, just like you don’t need to be an Xcode shop to use Macs.
    - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
      Sure, older tools are also feasible on windows. But if you are going with clang or GC, why bother? I guess you could do java dev on windows as well as other platforms.
  - binary132 2y ago
    There’s also the whole world of Java software and engineering which all pretty much Just Works on Windows.
- Hugsun 2y ago
  What do those ellipses mean?
  - defrost 2y ago
    When Shute uses three dots it means, "Use your own imagination. Conjure the scene up for yourself." (pause) Whenever I see three dots I feel all funny. ~ https://inkscrawl.blogspot.com/2005/01/whenever-i-see-three-dots-i-feel.html https://inkscrawl.blogspot.com/2005/01/whenever-i-see-three-... ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfKvOlSJ77o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfKvOlSJ77o
    - Hugsun 2y ago
      That's a great response. I unfortunately still just perceive end-of-phrase ellipses akin to a blank stare. Or as a passive-aggressive suggestion that you're incorrect in whatever is being responded to. Definitely no (positive) funny feelings.
  - epgui 2y ago
    There's only one, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis#In_writing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis#In_writing
eru 2y ago
I've developed software on Windows for Windows when working in a bank. It's pretty common.
- compiler1410 2y ago
  Tell me which bank so we can all avoid it.
  - szundi 2y ago
    Almost all
  - speed_spread 2y ago
    You're gonna have a bad time
- rstuart4133 2y ago
  I notice that's in the past tense. I'm old enough (as in, used Borland Delphi) to remember if you developed small business software, you were almost by definition a windows developer. But that was a long time ago. Along came Google whose master plan looks to have been to turn the web browser into the business platform of choice. Seemed like insanity at the time. Yet here we are. Browsers have since become masters at playing video, can handle interactive voice, and can talk directly to the GPU. Now Microsoft wants you to use Excel of all things in a a web browser and has dropped the Windows native version of Outlook in favour of the web one packaged as a desktop app. Seems like Google made it's vision work. I know there are some heavyweight applications out there like video editing and Engineering CAD with finite state analysis that need raw metal performance. But they are few and far between, and aside from them - who is doing Windows native development any more? Certainly not the firms that make accounting packages - the abandoned Windows long ago. For those that are left - are they going to survive the transition to ARM and RISC-V? POSIX / Linux / BSD / whatever applications - they continue to be as strong as ever. They drive embedded at one end, and the servers at the other. That sort of development is easiest to do on the the target platform, and since it dominates now Windows had to emulate that platform if it wanted to keep the developers. Which is how we got to WSL. But Windows native app development - that seems like it belongs to a bygone era. Now even Microsoft develops own apps target Electron, not Windows.
HenryBemis 2y ago
Having audited quite a few mega-corps, and seeing their CMDBs in detail, "the amount of RHELs is too damn high" to use the meme. I can't speak to percentages as I didn't keep specific track of those numbers, but from memory/impressions, the RHELs were at least 30%-40%.
worewood 2y ago
As a developer in a corporation, yes, the software I develop runs on Linux servers. But we don't develop in the server - my work computer is a "desktop with packaged software" and as such runs Windows.
high_na_euv 2y ago
They do, *really*

> most corporations do use Windows Not really. They put it on desktop with packaged software. The software they develop themselves run almost exclusively on Linux.

epgui 2y ago

Speaking as someone who happily lives in the mac engineering bubble and has very little interest in leaving said bubble… We tend to dramatically under-estimate the market share of Windows in engineering. I have no trouble believing that most companies run Windows and develop on Windows. I just don’t particularly want to work for these companies.

marcosdumay 2y ago
Microsoft itself doesn't recommend that you deploy software on Windows servers anymore. It's something that is supported, not recommended.
seanmcdirmid 2y ago
A lot of engineers who use windows aren’t programmers. This is because a lot of custom engineering packages that require windows, especially since they were developed 20 years ago when windows was dominate. But programmers have many more choices, and visual studio shops aren’t very common anymore, at least in the developed world, and I would bet countries like Russia and China as well.
- watwut 2y ago
  Quite a lot of programmers use windows, because they require less maintenance and there is no reason not to.
  - owl57 2y ago
    Are you sure any of the three major operating systems require much maintenance these days?
    - xprn 2y ago
      At least for linux, I would assume that it hugely comes down to how much of a personal statement the OS is to developers. I use Arch btw.
      - owl57 2y ago
        Well, yes, "Linux" is not well-specified. When one installs Arch, they hopefully know what they want, and it's something else than just a low-maintenance casual desktop OS. :)
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    Mac’s don’t require much maintenance either, and last longer then Lenovo things. When I worked tech in Beijing already a lot of programmers used them, even in changping around Lenovo’s big R&D office.
- oefrha 2y ago
  You don’t have to be a Visual Studio shop to use Windows machines, just like you don’t need to be an Xcode shop to use Macs.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    Sure, older tools are also feasible on windows. But if you are going with clang or GC, why bother? I guess you could do java dev on windows as well as other platforms.
- binary132 2y ago
  There’s also the whole world of Java software and engineering which all pretty much Just Works on Windows.
Hugsun 2y ago
What do those ellipses mean?
- defrost 2y ago
  When Shute uses three dots it means, "Use your own imagination. Conjure the scene up for yourself." (pause) Whenever I see three dots I feel all funny. ~ https://inkscrawl.blogspot.com/2005/01/whenever-i-see-three-dots-i-feel.html https://inkscrawl.blogspot.com/2005/01/whenever-i-see-three-... ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfKvOlSJ77o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfKvOlSJ77o
  - Hugsun 2y ago
    That's a great response. I unfortunately still just perceive end-of-phrase ellipses akin to a blank stare. Or as a passive-aggressive suggestion that you're incorrect in whatever is being responded to. Definitely no (positive) funny feelings.
- epgui 2y ago
  There's only one, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis#In_writing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis#In_writing

eru 2y ago

I've developed software on Windows for Windows when working in a bank. It's pretty common.

compiler1410 2y ago
Tell me which bank so we can all avoid it.
- szundi 2y ago
  Almost all
- speed_spread 2y ago
  You're gonna have a bad time
rstuart4133 2y ago
I notice that's in the past tense. I'm old enough (as in, used Borland Delphi) to remember if you developed small business software, you were almost by definition a windows developer. But that was a long time ago. Along came Google whose master plan looks to have been to turn the web browser into the business platform of choice. Seemed like insanity at the time. Yet here we are. Browsers have since become masters at playing video, can handle interactive voice, and can talk directly to the GPU. Now Microsoft wants you to use Excel of all things in a a web browser and has dropped the Windows native version of Outlook in favour of the web one packaged as a desktop app. Seems like Google made it's vision work. I know there are some heavyweight applications out there like video editing and Engineering CAD with finite state analysis that need raw metal performance. But they are few and far between, and aside from them - who is doing Windows native development any more? Certainly not the firms that make accounting packages - the abandoned Windows long ago. For those that are left - are they going to survive the transition to ARM and RISC-V? POSIX / Linux / BSD / whatever applications - they continue to be as strong as ever. They drive embedded at one end, and the servers at the other. That sort of development is easiest to do on the the target platform, and since it dominates now Windows had to emulate that platform if it wanted to keep the developers. Which is how we got to WSL. But Windows native app development - that seems like it belongs to a bygone era. Now even Microsoft develops own apps target Electron, not Windows.

HenryBemis 2y ago

Having audited quite a few mega-corps, and seeing their CMDBs in detail, "the amount of RHELs is too damn high" to use the meme. I can't speak to percentages as I didn't keep specific track of those numbers, but from memory/impressions, the RHELs were at least 30%-40%.

worewood 2y ago

As a developer in a corporation, yes, the software I develop runs on Linux servers. But we don't develop in the server - my work computer is a "desktop with packaged software" and as such runs Windows.

high_na_euv 2y ago

They do, *really*