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Frame.work laptop now available in Denmark, Finland, and Sweden
- matsemann 2y agoA Swedish keyboard layout works for Norwegian, as long as the Ö maps to Ø and Ä maps to Æ. Or the Danish as well, except there for some reason Æ must map to Ø and Ø must map to Æ, otherwise they're identical. So most keyboards sold in Scandinavia just has one button with ØÖÆ on it and another with ÆÄØ on it, and then based on OS keyboard setting you get the correct one. Point is, I'm curious why they also just don't release in Norway when they have made the layout? But I guess it's because we're not in the EU that makes it harder?
- speedgoose 2y agoThe mandatory 5 years warranty is scary perhaps.
- Muromec 2y agoOh… My framework laptop is two years old now and it starts showing. Had to replace the fan already (twice in fact) and now some random stuff with keyboard started to happen. 10 year old thinkpad in comparison can still be used both as a daily driver, a hammer and to barricade oneself during the zombie apocalypse
- chx 2y agoThose ThinkPads still had a separate magnesium alloy structure frame of course they are indestructible. (Marketing term used to be "roll cage")
- Tade0 2y agoThat's more or less the reliability of modern laptops for you. I had to replace the fans in my ASUS after less than two years, but the official manufacturer's parts store was out of stock so I had to rely on Ali Express. After that I had to go through the process of replacing them, which was anything but simple. You can't buy quality any more, but at least you can have repairability.
- Muromec 2y agoNeed to translate the manual to Norsk, it’s expensive or smth
- tordrt 2y agoYou wouldnt have to make a lot of changes to the Danish manual for it to be Norwegian. Most words you could just keep as is
- matsemann 2y agoYeah, I'm Danish but grew up in Norway, it's almost interchangeable. A few harder sounds in Norwegian, so change a few g's to k's etc. And Danish for some reason just litters commas randomly in a sentence, so just remove half of them randomly. And then remember the different meaning of "må" (NO=must, DK=may) when writing your manual, and you're good to go!
- tordrt 2y agoI had a quite awkward interaction with a danish exchange student once due to the different meaning of "må" once
- idle76 2y agoSoo, "kan"= "can" in norwegian and "must" in danish? Is that correct?
- hanche 2y agoIn Norwegian, “kan” may mean either “can” or “may” depending on context. That’s a source of confusion sometimes. Not sure about Danish, but I don’t think it can mean “must”.
- Svip 2y agoThe | and \ keys are different places on Norwegian and Danish keyboards.
- lordnacho 2y agoI always wondered why the special non-language characters are in different places in various language specific keyboards. Do Danish people not pipe their standard output as much? Do Swiss people not write emails as much? Are Europeans bad at finding the return key, thus requiring a larger one than Americans? These are all things I've actually come across. Why are the special characters in all sorts of weird places? One of the great mysteries of life.
- Ekaros 2y agoOn other side I always found weird that ANSI layout has this weird monster key for | \ like are those so often used it needs bigger key? Why not just used standard sized key for normal thing... Also why miss such useful symbols as ¤ ½ § from layout?
- jimbobthrowawy 2y agoI think most layout differences come from back then typewriters and word processors were the most that was available, and nothing got changed due to inertia. Going back and forth between " and @ being capital-2 daily is probably the one that's caused me the most frustration.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 2y agoPersonally I just use a US layout with alt gr for æøå. The Norwegian layout is very awkward for C style languages(and the unix shell), I find. The US one feels more natural, which makes sense considering the modern US layout is very similar to the layout of the teletypes used at bell labs in the 70s. Took a while to get used to it, but only a month or so to be just as fast as I was previously on the Norwegian one.
- vidarh 2y agoYeah. Norwegian living in the UK, and I use a US layout as well. I do have a keybinding to swap to Norwegian keymap that I use occasionally, but it doesn't see much use.
- kawsper 2y agoI use US layout instead of danish as well, it's much better for development, and æøå is easily available on Mac: æ = option + ' ø = option + o å = option + a
- wingerlang 2y agoAgreed, takes honestly a very short time to get used to it but the benefits are large, as a programmer at least. I don't think I would ever go back to the other layout again.
- matsemann 2y agoMy reason for learning the US layout back in the days was because of Counter Strike. For some reason it didn't adhere to your OS keyboard settings when chatting, so trying to write ø always became ; etc, so we kinda after a while just learned how it worked (didn't even know it was a US layout thing to look up, just bruteforced and memorized).
- encom 2y agoThe danish layout is brain damaged indeed. My greatest daily annoyance is shift+7 to get "/", when navigating around folders in the terminal, but on the other hand I have ~30 years of built up muscle memory at this point.
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- altacc 2y agoLack of keyboard as my reason for not buying a Framework laptop when upgrading last year. I wouldn't mind them releasing a Nordic keyboard, which isn't ideal but better than nothing (as a migrant I'm never quite sure what character I'll get when I hit those keys!). It seems Norway is often left out as being outside the EU and having it's own tax, customs and consumer rights requirements puts a large burden on companies to officially support a market here, especially when it's a relatively small market.
- flurdy 2y agoYeah, not in the EU makes it more expensive (customs), warranties, and more bureaucratic for a small market. I am sure they will eventually, but quicker and less friction to expand to EU countries and later maybe to other EEA countries. It will not be a hardware issues. All costs, red tape and priorities.
- Svip 2y agoFinally, someone offering a proper Danish keyboard. Denmark, Sweden and Norway have long been stymied with the low-effort that is the Nordic keyboard layout. The problem is if you are not familiar with keyboards, then the labels are supposed to help you, but they don't on the Nordic layouts, because it just show three different keymap's labels on some keys, but you don't know which belong to which. I know Apple also offers a proper Danish keyboard, and I've seen some modern Thinkpads with proper Danish keyboards. I normally use a US Intl keyboard, but whenever I see a Danish keyboard, I struggle to find the | key.
- wordofx 2y agolol someone hasn’t seen some international keyboards.
- robxorb 2y agoCan someone explain to my why some keyboard layouts hide some of the most important terminal punctuation in everyday use? For example, on an Apple Swedish keyboard you're not allowed to natively access your home directory ~, nor pipe anything |. What idiot came up with that, or is there legitimate reason?
- OJFord 2y agoThey come from typewriters presumably, not designed for teletypes nevermind modern terminal emulators.
- afiori 2y agolocalized keyboards layouts are quite a bit old.
- creshal 2y agoThey're recycling typewriter layouts that optimized for what was at the time more important to the average user, making common non-latin characters more accessible. And arguably, for the average user, it's still the right choice. It's only IT nerds who really need all those weird extra characters that aren't even real punctuation, and they can just switch over to the US layout.
- Muromec 2y agoI’m still waiting for Ukrainian keyboard. How hard can it be to get the mappings for all keyboards from gnome or somewhere and apply whatever unicode symbol during the engraving process ?
- dgan 2y agoYou can always buy a blank keyboard and add stickers yourself I am thinking about leaving it blank tho, looks way cooler hehe
- Svip 2y agoI've tried that before, and I've not been able to find stickers that will last long (trust me, you'll have sweaty fingers from time to time). A better solution is to use a white permanent marker on the keys instead. It doesn't last, obviously, but it doesn't make it awkward to type, and you can just re-apply it as the keys lose their labels.
- nunobrito 2y agoHave the same issue with portuguese keyboards while working as expat. Only other option was memorizing the keys. :-(
- simcop2387 2y agoIt still won't be permanent, but water-slide decals will probably work better than stickers, and about as well as the marker while being more legible. It might also be possible to put a clear coat paint on it that'll help them last longer. The big advantage over stickers is that they aren't held on by glue, but instead by the plastic that they're made out of conforms to the surface and grips it instead. That said I'm not sure how to make white text for a black keyboard.
- lawn 2y agoI don't really understand the complaint about labels, it's not that hard to learn the keys.
- phplovesong 2y agoHow good are these? They are pretty highly priced (1600-2000 USD), comparable to a mac laptop. I would expect the quality to be on mac level if i would pay this price for a laptop.
- palad1n 2y agoYeah, I decked one out to what I would want and it came to over $3K.
- lucideer 2y agoAs someone who went through two of the touchbar macbook pros up until recently getting a M2, "on a mac level" is a pretty tricky metric these days. Apple were charging crazy prices for garbage quality machines for years. A friend has a frame.work & I've trialed it a fair bit - combining his review with my hands on experiences I'd say it's not quite as nice as the new Ms nor up to the level of the old pre-2018 macbooks but it is very close, & certainly far better build quality than what Apple were churning out in those intervening years.
- jillesvangurp 2y agoThe last few generations of intel macs weren't great indeed. The 2018 model I had had the flaky keyboard that ultimately destroyed the laptop when a loose key inserted itself in between the screen and the keyboard. Still angry about that. But I must say the M1 mac book pro (14", 16GB) is one of the nicest laptops I've ever had. The second best would be a 2011 era mac book pr 15" that I used for several years (pre-retina). I'd be interested in a decent linux laptop but so far everything I look at has compromises on quality, screen/resolution, trackpads, etc. These framework laptop come close. Especially now that they finally have decent screens that aren't the industry standard 1080p garbage. Not quite upto Apple's standards (colors, contrast, dynamic range, etc.). But it's nice enough. It does seems a bit bulky for my taste. But I could probably live with it. I'd use it for gaming and Steam mainly. I have a shitty old laptop I use for that currently but I hate the screen, keyboard, trackpad, and the anemic performance.
- nunobrito 2y agoIn case the manufacturer reads comments here: Can we have a LoRa module?
- kozinc 2y agoYou know, there's 3d models for the expansion cards, so you can always just design your own LoRa expansion cards, probably (or get someone else to do it)
- mog_dev 2y agoThey will probably never make a LoRa module, but making a LoRa expansion card would be a pretty interesting project. You can get more info about the expansion cards on the dedicated github repo: https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards
- StrLght 2y agoI wouldn't expect that such a small manufacturer to produce such a niche module
- Aissen 2y agoLearning to touch type is one of the best investments I made early in my career. It's never too late. The fact that you will no longer need to care about whatever is printed on your keyboard is only a minor bonus.
- Aachen 2y agoIt took until reading this comment that I understood why everyone's going on about the keyboard layout when it's always only ansi or iso anyway. I care that the left shift is long because then my hands can reach things like shift+4 comfortably (this php coder needs that $ a lot, my hand at an internship actually hurt from trying to use the bad layout), but beyond the physical keys, it wouldn't even occur to me that anyone who's into Framework hacker laptops cares about the print on them! Thanks for that hint
- matsemann 2y agoIt's not just what's printed on them, really. I touch type, but a US keyboard have different shapes. For instance a longer left shift, and then go straight to Z, while we have an extra button inbetween. After jkl we have three buttons and then a thin and tall enter, but you have two and a short enter.
- Aissen 2y agoAgreed. You are talking about ANSI vs ISO layouts, and Framework already had both.
- spurgu 2y agoYeah I've had laptops with various hardware layouts and don't really care, other than I prefer a Nordic layout on Macs where the Enter key is tall rather than wide. But it's a trivial adjustment.
- hiAndrewQuinn 2y agohttps://monkeytype.com/ https://monkeytype.com/ is my go-to place to practice. It proved invaluable when I was first getting used to my fancy ortholinear split keyboard.
- FireInsight 2y agoCan't seem to find the finnish keyboard option for the 13, and it seems to be immediately out-of-stock for the 16. It's great, though. The keyboard layout was the main thing restricting me from getting a framework. I was just looking at slimbooks yesterday, in fact, since they offer more keyboard layouts.
- spindle 2y agoThis is an issue that should concern us all, since Finnish has a bright future: https://www.hagen-schmidt.de/suomi/worldlanguage.html https://www.hagen-schmidt.de/suomi/worldlanguage.html
- FireInsight 2y agoFun site, content seems to be around 20 years old. We've yet to see Finnish become the maailmankieli, though.
- lightwords 2y agoI don't see how it's a problem to stock all keyboard types, such as for the Nordics. It's the same layout, just with different letters. They could just have blank keyboards with the most commonly used layouts and put them in a laser etch jig for custom orders. Similar what they are doing now for screen protectors where they cut them in-store
- ccppurcell 2y agoDifferent layouts have different size return keys, for instance.
- notpushkin 2y agoANSI/ISO is the main difference I think. Now, Japanese keyboard [1] is a whole other beast, but for the most part layouts customizing ANSI and ISO blanks should work just fine. [1]: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fae01.alicdn.com%2Fkf%2FHTB1Iwrpn9cqBKNjSZFgq6x_kXXai%2FNEW-JP-Japanese-layout-keyboard-for-Thinkpad-T410-T420-T410S-T510-X220-FRU-45N2242-45N2102-45N2172.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=97a2ea33a8c824d6bf070c31e052d3e0bf73fcbbef6ad2d3ee0068018fa76240&ipo=images https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2F...
- numpad0 2y agoYeah, there are mostly only ANSI, ISO, and JIS physical layout in this world, stamped differently to suit needs. JIS is only ever used in Japanese so just blank ANSI and ISO should cover everything(emphasis on should; corrections are welcome).
- poulpy123 2y agoThey are unfortunately too expensive for me personally, but framework is the only computer manufacturer that do interesting things
- WesolyKubeczek 2y agoI'd like to have one, but all laptops from my stack of laptops just stubbornly refuse to die.
- kreyenborgi 2y agoaww, Norway left out again :-(
- darthrupert 2y agoCome to the dark side (EU), we'd love to have you.
- tordrt 2y agoAs the current situation is I dont see why we shouldnt join the EU. We are better at adopting EU directives than most EU members. And we still end up having to adopt the horrible ones anyway, so might as well at least have an influence on the decisions that are made.
- frankjr 2y agoDoes that actually help? I've been waiting for Czechia availability for years now. The best they can do is to tell me I should order to a supported country and handle shipping from there myself.
- cornedor 2y agoYou should be able to buy one, and pick it up in Sweden. https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-rights/shopping-rights/online-shopping-rights/geo-blocking https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-r...
- theshrike79 2y agoNorway isn't in the EU, those rules don't apply
- michaelmior 2y agoNote while the domain is frame.work, the brand name does not have a . and is just Framework.
- cornedor 2y agoThey were already available since they started selling to the first EU country. As an EU citizen, you have the right[1] to purchase a product from any EU country. Geo-blocking is often prohibited. They now only ship to those countries as well, so you don't have to pick it up from another EU country. [1]: https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-rights/shopping-rights/online-shopping-rights/geo-blocking https://www.eccnet.eu/consumer-rights/what-are-my-consumer-r...
- 627467 2y ago> so you don't have to pick it up from another eu country it's like saying any product is available worldwide as long as you are willing to travel (or arrange) to pick it up
- sabjut 2y agonot if you ask customs
- doikor 2y agoThe bigger thing is having Nordic keyboard layout available. Also we use ISO layout with more keys and shapes/sizes. > With this launch, we’re adding Danish and Swedish/Finnish keyboards that you can order now with a Framework Laptop 13 or as a standalone Keyboard or Input Cover Kit. For me the biggest issue is the different shape enter key causing me to miss click it all the time when using standard (ANSI?) qwerty keyboard.
- numpad0 2y agoDoes it differ from standard ISO, or is it ISO with specific keycap prints?
- ajsnigrutin 2y agoBy that logic, they were available even before, because you could fly to US and buy it there. Being able to buy a laptop in finland is pretty much the same hassle for me as if i bought it in US... less custom fees, more shady remailers and a language I don't understand. Half of amazon.de won't deliver to my (not germany) EU country, half of amazon.it won't either, and sometimes there' stuff that one of them will send but not the other (stuff sold by amazon, not third party sellers), and some things are impossible to get (lipo batteries) while other companies somehow manage to ship them. EU is far from a "unified market" (in a way where buying stuff from other EU countries would be the same experience as buying stuff from your own). Even large retailers like amazon don't even care about the difference, since they have your shipping address, notify you that your shipping address is set to <address> with a popup, let you search for an item, show you an item in the search results, and only when you click on the item, they tell you that they can't ship it to your address.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- edpichler 2y agoI wish they had a Dvorak keyboard.
- amarant 2y agoHow modular are these actually? Like, can you replace the screen, and could a third party produce a new screen module for it? Can third parties produce any modules for it, or is there some kind of licensing/patent that blocks that?
- vaylian 2y ago> can you replace the screen Yes. It is designed so that end users can do that: https://guides.frame.work/c/Framework_Laptop https://guides.frame.work/c/Framework_Laptop > could a third party produce a new screen module for it? Yes > Can third parties produce any modules for it, Yes > [third party modules ...] or is there some kind of licensing/patent that blocks that? No