9 ms·

Well did they figure it out?

by jpeter 2y ago

shuckles 2y ago
My feeling is this logic only holds if your product is being pirated because it’s the best. Windows was certainly better than Linux, but ultimately when a consumer can afford it they’d rather buy a Mac.
- DSMan195276 2y ago
  I don't think it's that simple. Plenty of people won't buy a Mac because it's "different", which of them is 'better' never factors into it. While I don't use Photoshop I'd assume that logic holds even stronger - if you know how to use Photoshop you're going to ask for that rather than a tool you don't know how to use.
  - shuckles 2y ago
    If people were pirating Photoshop only because it was easy to pirate, my guess is when it came to professional work or another occasion where they had the funds to pay for image editing software, they would overcome whatever friction necessary to buy the best. That definitely happens in other cases like video editing where easy to access software is different than what studios pay for. As a thought experiment: if Photoshop was means tested and free to anyone who couldn’t afford it, would that actually convert users when they had money?
    - fragmede 2y ago
      How many people ever got rich enough to pay for a copy of WinRar?
      - popcalc 2y ago
        The US government is one of WinRar's biggest customers.
      - shuckles 2y ago
        I think this is irrelevant. WinRAR's core feature set for most users was made available for free with zip files and operating system support.
  - nobutterbetter 2y ago
    [dead]
  - hsbauauvhabzb 2y ago
    I grew up on pirated windows, and never had the opportunity or means to pirate Mac software. I now cannot stand the mac software - alt tab is broken (for me), as are copy / paste. I think piracy had a huge involvement in my preferred software.
    - shuckles 2y ago
      Remapping the command key to alt is a pretty straightforward feature built into the OS.
      - RussianCow 2y ago
        I think they were likely referring to the behavior and not the choice of shortcut keys. On Windows, alt+tab switches between all open windows across a apps, whereas in macOS, you have separate shortcuts for switching between apps vs windows within the same app. Personally, I find the macOS behavior really irritating and unintuitive, but thankfully there are plenty of apps out there that solve this issue so it's not really a problem.
        shuckles 2y ago
        Interesting — I didn’t think about the difference and could see how it is annoying.
      - hsbauauvhabzb 2y ago
        10 year old me didn’t know this. I’m comfortable enough with windows (and anything other than mac) that there is zero chance I’ll switch to the OS or their key layout, which I will concur is superior.
- mixermachine 2y ago
  I switched from a PC to a Mac at work. Macbook Pro M2 Pro, 32GB RAM. The performance and battery life are absolutely lovely. Compile tasks run great. MacOS on the other hand not really. It is better/acceptable after I installed some Plugins. But I still wish Linux was fully supported (and my company would allow it). Even Windows would be an upgrade currently for me.
  - plufz 2y ago
    What plugins do you use? And what do you miss from windows? As a long time mac user I am probably unaware of neat stuff from windows.
    - cwillu 2y ago
      Probably the biggest one for me is alt-tab switching between windows, without regard for whether its the same app or not. This matters, because keeping track of whether the documentation I'm referring to are currently in a gvim window vs a vim terminal vs a browser, and whether the work I'm currently doing _with_ the documentation is in a gvim window, a terminal, or a browser, is enraging. The key to bring back the last window I looked at should not change depending on whether the app name happens to be different.
      - nehal3m 2y ago
        By default the hotkey for tabbing through app instances is Cmd + ~ I bound it to Option + tab though, more intuitive to me.
        aseo 2y ago
        ^ b/c of this, I actually like how MacOS separated app and window switching. It's a bit more fine grained, and I can use either of the two depending on the specific intention.
        nox101 2y ago
        that doesn't actually solve the OP's problem as it still requires you to be aware of all your windows and which ones are in current app vs which ones are in different apps.
- 999900000999 2y ago
  Alright. My current laptop was about 750$ , has a 8845HS and I added a 4TB SSD for 200$. If I wanted to do the same thing with a Mac I'd be spending over 3k. I actually have a M1 Air, but Apple decided soldering SSDs would be a good idea. Dualboot Linux and Windows for the best experience...
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > If I wanted to do the same thing with a Mac I'd be spending over 3k Right, "when a consumer can afford to."
    - 999900000999 2y ago
      Ok. So instead of being able to upgrade to a 8TB in a few years when the prices come down, I can just throw out my 3K Mac and buy a new one. Only 5k for the 8TB Mac. I make music and I'm getting into photography and film making. I prefer more space over being having to carry around an external SSD with me I also enjoy gaming, which is still much better on Windows. If I want to play some COD or Tony Hawk HD, that's very well supported. Not really going to work on a Mac. Macs do have a much more premium feel to them, but I've had great experiences with cheap laptops. Even if I drop it, shucks, I'm out 750$, not 3k.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > instead of being able to upgrade to a 8TB in a few years when the prices come down, I can just throw out my 3K Mac and buy a new one Mac buyers fall into two groups: those who don't need that upgrade (most consumers) and those who can afford to spec it up at the beginning, cost be damned. That's what OP meant by "when the consumer can afford to." > also enjoy gaming, which is still much better on Windows 100%. I don't think Apple has meaningfully contested this space.
        999900000999 2y ago
        Realistically I can afford a 1500$ M3 Pro with a 512 drive. I'd just prefer to save my money and get significantly more storage. I will miss Logic though...
- layer8 2y ago
  Nah, the hardware is neat for the most part, but a lot of people don’t necessarily like macOS.
- nijave 2y ago
  No
- tempestn 2y ago
  Definitely not true for me. I had a windows pc and mac laptop for years (as well as Linux home and work servers), but when it came time to replace the laptop I switched to windows, mostly because it's more configurable. Also integrates better with my Android phone, which I prefer to iOS for similar reasons.
- eru 2y ago
  Apple has shiny hardware, yes. Compatibility for many programs people care about is a lot better on Windows than on Mac (or Linux). That has improved a lot in recent years, of course. Especially for games. Linux has great compatibility for lots of hardware, but Windows is still better supported. Mac has almost non-existent compatibility for hardware: you need to buy an Apple branded device to run Apple's operating system. For peripherals Windows has probably the best compatibility list, but Linux can often be better for very old stuff. Mac's record is spotty at best.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    > Mac has almost non-existent compatibility for hardware: you need to buy an Apple branded device to run Apple's operating system. Not only an Apple device but a recent Apple device. I have a 2014 RMBP that works flawlessly. I haven’t been able to install MacOS on it for a couple of years now.
    - eru 2y ago
      Oh, the same for my 2016 MacBook Pro.
jabbany 2y ago
I guess in a way? They learned from XP/7 that they'll never recoup it though licenses so now its ads and subscription upsells for everybody.
- SR2Z 2y ago
  I think they would have moved to ads and subscriptions either way. It's hard to resist that sweet, sweet cash flow.
  - tomrod 2y ago
    Foolishly though. Ads don't work nearly as well as what a lot of companies pay for them.
    - eyelidlessness 2y ago
      That’s foolish for the companies paying for them, maybe not for the companies charging to vend them.
colpabar 2y ago
Yeah, they're putting ads everywhere and selling all your activity data.
gibolt 2y ago
"Ghost" Windows is a thing of the past, and most modern installations in China are legit. Bing is also an approved search engine, even if not used by a majority of people. I'm sure their revenue is significantly higher than a decade ago.
- rblatz 2y ago
  Honestly google search has gotten so bad I’ve been meaning to try Bing out, but old habits die hard.
  - eru 2y ago
    If you want to try it: https://www.bing.com/ https://www.bing.com/ Knock yourself out!
    - greentxt 2y ago
      Google search hasn't gotten _that_ bad. But nice of you to help out.
      - eru 2y ago
        To explain the joke: I like to procrastinate just as much as the next guy, but procrastinating over trying out a different search engine is a bit too much even for me.
metadat 2y ago
They've managed to hoist from Windows OS biz to staying relevant, so yeah I'd say they're doing okay.
hrisng 2y ago
Not from China but in the same region. Most new machines here now have a legit OEM copy of Windows. It's getting much more affordable, even in third-world countries now that it's not worth it to risk going for a pirated copy. Still happen, but much less common than it was.
- p1necone 2y ago
  > Most new machines here now have a legit OEM copy of Windows. Are they legit legit? Or is this just because it's trivially easy to get a "legit" OEM license for free via Microsoft Activation Scripts?
  - nirav72 2y ago
    OEM licenses for windows 11/10 are dirt cheap even here in the U.S. You can get a single use (can only activate once) for around $10-15. Most of those online sellers are based in China or HK. So yeah, those are legit OEM licenses. Since MS doesn't seem to have issues activating them. (I've bought them for VM use before)
    - chii 2y ago
      > a single use (can only activate once) i am unfamiliar with windows activation, does it activate once only, meaning that if you tried to reinstall on the same machine, you can't reuse the same license?
      - nirav72 2y ago
        Correct. If you need to do a fresh install on the same or new drive, then you'll need a new key. I only use these cheap OEM keys for VMs and use more expensive retail keys that persist with MS login on physical hardware. Although I know plenty of people that build own gaming machines with OEM keys.

Well did they figure it out?

by jpeter 2y ago

Well did they figure it out?

My feeling is this logic only holds if your product is being pirated because it’s the best. Windows was certainly better than Linux, but ultimately when a consumer can afford it they’d rather buy a Mac.

DSMan195276 2y ago
I don't think it's that simple. Plenty of people won't buy a Mac because it's "different", which of them is 'better' never factors into it. While I don't use Photoshop I'd assume that logic holds even stronger - if you know how to use Photoshop you're going to ask for that rather than a tool you don't know how to use.
- shuckles 2y ago
  If people were pirating Photoshop only because it was easy to pirate, my guess is when it came to professional work or another occasion where they had the funds to pay for image editing software, they would overcome whatever friction necessary to buy the best. That definitely happens in other cases like video editing where easy to access software is different than what studios pay for. As a thought experiment: if Photoshop was means tested and free to anyone who couldn’t afford it, would that actually convert users when they had money?
  - fragmede 2y ago
    How many people ever got rich enough to pay for a copy of WinRar?
    - popcalc 2y ago
      The US government is one of WinRar's biggest customers.
    - shuckles 2y ago
      I think this is irrelevant. WinRAR's core feature set for most users was made available for free with zip files and operating system support.
- nobutterbetter 2y ago
  [dead]
- hsbauauvhabzb 2y ago
  I grew up on pirated windows, and never had the opportunity or means to pirate Mac software. I now cannot stand the mac software - alt tab is broken (for me), as are copy / paste. I think piracy had a huge involvement in my preferred software.
  - shuckles 2y ago
    Remapping the command key to alt is a pretty straightforward feature built into the OS.
    - RussianCow 2y ago
      I think they were likely referring to the behavior and not the choice of shortcut keys. On Windows, alt+tab switches between all open windows across a apps, whereas in macOS, you have separate shortcuts for switching between apps vs windows within the same app. Personally, I find the macOS behavior really irritating and unintuitive, but thankfully there are plenty of apps out there that solve this issue so it's not really a problem.
      - shuckles 2y ago
        Interesting — I didn’t think about the difference and could see how it is annoying.
    - hsbauauvhabzb 2y ago
      10 year old me didn’t know this. I’m comfortable enough with windows (and anything other than mac) that there is zero chance I’ll switch to the OS or their key layout, which I will concur is superior.
mixermachine 2y ago
I switched from a PC to a Mac at work. Macbook Pro M2 Pro, 32GB RAM. The performance and battery life are absolutely lovely. Compile tasks run great. MacOS on the other hand not really. It is better/acceptable after I installed some Plugins. But I still wish Linux was fully supported (and my company would allow it). Even Windows would be an upgrade currently for me.
- plufz 2y ago
  What plugins do you use? And what do you miss from windows? As a long time mac user I am probably unaware of neat stuff from windows.
  - cwillu 2y ago
    Probably the biggest one for me is alt-tab switching between windows, without regard for whether its the same app or not. This matters, because keeping track of whether the documentation I'm referring to are currently in a gvim window vs a vim terminal vs a browser, and whether the work I'm currently doing _with_ the documentation is in a gvim window, a terminal, or a browser, is enraging. The key to bring back the last window I looked at should not change depending on whether the app name happens to be different.
    - nehal3m 2y ago
      By default the hotkey for tabbing through app instances is Cmd + ~ I bound it to Option + tab though, more intuitive to me.
      - aseo 2y ago
        ^ b/c of this, I actually like how MacOS separated app and window switching. It's a bit more fine grained, and I can use either of the two depending on the specific intention.
      - nox101 2y ago
        that doesn't actually solve the OP's problem as it still requires you to be aware of all your windows and which ones are in current app vs which ones are in different apps.
999900000999 2y ago
Alright. My current laptop was about 750$ , has a 8845HS and I added a 4TB SSD for 200$. If I wanted to do the same thing with a Mac I'd be spending over 3k. I actually have a M1 Air, but Apple decided soldering SSDs would be a good idea. Dualboot Linux and Windows for the best experience...
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > If I wanted to do the same thing with a Mac I'd be spending over 3k Right, "when a consumer can afford to."
  - 999900000999 2y ago
    Ok. So instead of being able to upgrade to a 8TB in a few years when the prices come down, I can just throw out my 3K Mac and buy a new one. Only 5k for the 8TB Mac. I make music and I'm getting into photography and film making. I prefer more space over being having to carry around an external SSD with me I also enjoy gaming, which is still much better on Windows. If I want to play some COD or Tony Hawk HD, that's very well supported. Not really going to work on a Mac. Macs do have a much more premium feel to them, but I've had great experiences with cheap laptops. Even if I drop it, shucks, I'm out 750$, not 3k.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > instead of being able to upgrade to a 8TB in a few years when the prices come down, I can just throw out my 3K Mac and buy a new one Mac buyers fall into two groups: those who don't need that upgrade (most consumers) and those who can afford to spec it up at the beginning, cost be damned. That's what OP meant by "when the consumer can afford to." > also enjoy gaming, which is still much better on Windows 100%. I don't think Apple has meaningfully contested this space.
      - 999900000999 2y ago
        Realistically I can afford a 1500$ M3 Pro with a 512 drive. I'd just prefer to save my money and get significantly more storage. I will miss Logic though...
layer8 2y ago
Nah, the hardware is neat for the most part, but a lot of people don’t necessarily like macOS.
nijave 2y ago
No
tempestn 2y ago
Definitely not true for me. I had a windows pc and mac laptop for years (as well as Linux home and work servers), but when it came time to replace the laptop I switched to windows, mostly because it's more configurable. Also integrates better with my Android phone, which I prefer to iOS for similar reasons.
eru 2y ago
Apple has shiny hardware, yes. Compatibility for many programs people care about is a lot better on Windows than on Mac (or Linux). That has improved a lot in recent years, of course. Especially for games. Linux has great compatibility for lots of hardware, but Windows is still better supported. Mac has almost non-existent compatibility for hardware: you need to buy an Apple branded device to run Apple's operating system. For peripherals Windows has probably the best compatibility list, but Linux can often be better for very old stuff. Mac's record is spotty at best.
- mulmen 2y ago
  > Mac has almost non-existent compatibility for hardware: you need to buy an Apple branded device to run Apple's operating system. Not only an Apple device but a recent Apple device. I have a 2014 RMBP that works flawlessly. I haven’t been able to install MacOS on it for a couple of years now.
  - eru 2y ago
    Oh, the same for my 2016 MacBook Pro.

jabbany 2y ago

I guess in a way? They learned from XP/7 that they'll never recoup it though licenses so now its ads and subscription upsells for everybody.

SR2Z 2y ago
I think they would have moved to ads and subscriptions either way. It's hard to resist that sweet, sweet cash flow.
- tomrod 2y ago
  Foolishly though. Ads don't work nearly as well as what a lot of companies pay for them.
  - eyelidlessness 2y ago
    That’s foolish for the companies paying for them, maybe not for the companies charging to vend them.

colpabar 2y ago

Yeah, they're putting ads everywhere and selling all your activity data.

gibolt 2y ago

"Ghost" Windows is a thing of the past, and most modern installations in China are legit. Bing is also an approved search engine, even if not used by a majority of people. I'm sure their revenue is significantly higher than a decade ago.

rblatz 2y ago
Honestly google search has gotten so bad I’ve been meaning to try Bing out, but old habits die hard.
- eru 2y ago
  If you want to try it: https://www.bing.com/ https://www.bing.com/ Knock yourself out!
  - greentxt 2y ago
    Google search hasn't gotten _that_ bad. But nice of you to help out.
    - eru 2y ago
      To explain the joke: I like to procrastinate just as much as the next guy, but procrastinating over trying out a different search engine is a bit too much even for me.

metadat 2y ago

They've managed to hoist from Windows OS biz to staying relevant, so yeah I'd say they're doing okay.

hrisng 2y ago

Not from China but in the same region. Most new machines here now have a legit OEM copy of Windows. It's getting much more affordable, even in third-world countries now that it's not worth it to risk going for a pirated copy. Still happen, but much less common than it was.

p1necone 2y ago
> Most new machines here now have a legit OEM copy of Windows. Are they legit legit? Or is this just because it's trivially easy to get a "legit" OEM license for free via Microsoft Activation Scripts?
- nirav72 2y ago
  OEM licenses for windows 11/10 are dirt cheap even here in the U.S. You can get a single use (can only activate once) for around $10-15. Most of those online sellers are based in China or HK. So yeah, those are legit OEM licenses. Since MS doesn't seem to have issues activating them. (I've bought them for VM use before)
  - chii 2y ago
    > a single use (can only activate once) i am unfamiliar with windows activation, does it activate once only, meaning that if you tried to reinstall on the same machine, you can't reuse the same license?
    - nirav72 2y ago
      Correct. If you need to do a fresh install on the same or new drive, then you'll need a new key. I only use these cheap OEM keys for VMs and use more expensive retail keys that persist with MS login on physical hardware. Although I know plenty of people that build own gaming machines with OEM keys.