7 ms·

McDonald's will stop testing AI to take drive-thru orders, for now

34 points by palad1n 2y ago

MBCook 2y ago
Was that not nationwide? I guess I had just assumed it was as all my local McDs have it. Seems to work just fine the few times I’ve tried it, but as a native speaker of US English without much of regional accent I’m not exactly a tough test.
- spaceship__sun 2y ago
  They are probably using 5+yr old STT model and then passing to an LLM. I think GPT4o's purpose is to solve this
  - eesmith 2y ago
    Is that more probable than using off-shore low-paid workers, like Carl’s Jr. and others (as mentioned in the article), or like the "Just Walk Out" technology at Amazon Fresh stores?
  - DebtDeflation 2y ago
    This article even says as much: https://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-ai-voice-order-technology-drive-thrus-2024-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-ai-voice-order-tec... >Under the partnership, IBM acquired McD Tech Labs, which McDonald's created after taking control of the AI speech company Apprente in 2019. Probably also using the cheapest non-noise-cancelling microphones they could find at the time.
dangus 2y ago
I would think that this is one of those LLM use cases that will definitely happen once McDonald’s finds a technology partner they like. On the other hand, I also wonder if humans are too good at this task to make a big capital investment worth it. The employees who take your orders at McDonald’s aren’t standing around doing nothing, they’re wearing a headset and multitasking.
- moose_man 2y ago
  The cost of implementing this system vs paying a teenager minimum wage makes it not worth, and probably not worth it for a while. A lot of use cases for generative AI seem to miss that you can get humans to do them for pretty low costs and installing a new AI system is quite expensive and potentially error prone.
  - nojs 2y ago
    It becomes super valuable when the error rate is lower than humans though. I think this will be the main driver for applications like this.
    - moose_man 2y ago
      Yeah, but from what I can tell, there are some fundamental issues to be solved before we get an error rate anything like that with Generative AI.
      - furyofantares 2y ago
        I agree but would like to share an anecdote. There are some orders that I've found nearly impossible for humans to get right until I prompt engineered them. "Two double quarter pounders with cheese" will either be two quarter pounders with cheese, or one double quarter pounder with cheese. With humans I have to order "a double quarter pounder with cheese", wait for them to enter it, then "another double quarter pounder with cheese".
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    Where are teenagers getting paid minimum wage for these jobs though? Where I live fast food jobs now start at $15/hr, not because of any laws, but because you simply can't really get anyone cheaper than that. There have been tons of articles recently about how rising fast food prices are causing people to consider it a "luxury", and a huge part of those rising prices are rising wage costs. Where I live all the McDonald's now have kiosks inside for orders and fewer cashiers. I absolutely think shaving labor costs is something all fast food joints are interested in. I do agree with the other comment that drive-through workers multitask (scooping fries, filling drinks, etc.), so I'm not sure how much savings you'll get just from order automation.
add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
Is their bottom tier food really worth the same kind of indignity you're made to go through when you have to call your credit card company?
- megadal 2y ago
  Not sure about everyone else but where I'm from customer service is intentionally horrible everywhere within a 10 mile radius. To be fair I live in an affordable housing project from the 1900s but yeah. AI would definitely beat shouting matches in the drive thru.
rahimnathwani 2y ago
PSA: Use the McDonald's mobile app, and always check the 'Deals' section before you order. On average you'll probably save 15%. Sometimes with a BOGOF, at other times with a discounted item. You can still use the drive through if you like. Just mention your order code instead of telling them your whole order.
- MrGinkgo 2y ago
  You save 15% but mcdonalds makes millions off all the data you consent to giving them by downloading the app. I also heard that, buried in the T&C of their mobile app, you basically consent to rescinding your ability to sue them? I'm not trying to pull too much of a gotcha though, I use the app myself.
  - dartos 2y ago
    I don’t think terms and conditions ate powerful enough to prevent you from suing them. That’s what the army of lawyers is for.
  - satvikpendem 2y ago
    > You save 15% but mcdonalds makes millions off all the data you consent to giving them by downloading the app. People always talk about apps "selling your data," and I can understand it in cases like Facebook (and Meta platforms in general) and Google, but in this case, how would it happen that McDonalds "makes millions off all the data you consent to giving them?"
    - Aeglaecia 2y ago
      a nicely packaged bundle containing the information of hundreds of millions of customers' travel/spending/lifestyle habits ... would allow a company to sell more shit to those consumers ... so that information is worth money .... especially when collected en masse ...
    - autoexec 2y ago
      The last I heard McDonalds said they aren't selling some of your data (like your credit card info or your location data) but that doesn't mean they can't sell other data, sell any of that data at some later date, or that the data won't get leaked or stolen and sold by someone else. Hasn't pretty much everyone gotten several data breach notifications by now?
ivraatiems 2y ago
Carl's Jr was also piloting a similar technology. An AI took my order a few weeks ago, and mostly got it right (but didn't understand that I wanted "no sauce" with a certain item and gave me a side of sauce instead). I asked the real human at the window whether they liked the AI system. They said no, it made far too many mistakes. In fact, the company was going to be uninstalling it soon because it was wasting too much time. I can think of about a million reasons that might be, but one which particularly came to mind is that I live in an area where around 40% of people are Spanish speakers as their first language, and many of them speak no or very little English. The drive-thru employees would be completely capable of switching to Spanish (or summoning a Spanish-speaking employee) as needed, but according to the woman at the window, the AI couldn't do that. It also had issues with accents. None of that is unsolvable, but it's disappointing that it apparently wasn't even thought of.
- theshrike79 2y ago
  This is one of the things I don't get about the AI hype. Why does everyone want to use AI to _replace_ humans?[0] This sounds exactly like a case where an "AI" transcribing a human's order ALONGSIDE an actual human would be a perfect case for optimising. If the human mishears something for example, they can check what the AI interpreted, but still make their own decisions. [0] We all know: Greed. AI's don't join unions and don't get overtime pay.
ilaksh 2y ago
I was under the impression that the Checkers system was effective? https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/13ivx5s/a_robot_took_my_order_at_checkers_today_theyre/ https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/13ivx5s/a_robo...

34 points by palad1n 2y ago

Was that not nationwide? I guess I had just assumed it was as all my local McDs have it. Seems to work just fine the few times I’ve tried it, but as a native speaker of US English without much of regional accent I’m not exactly a tough test.

spaceship__sun 2y ago
They are probably using 5+yr old STT model and then passing to an LLM. I think GPT4o's purpose is to solve this
- eesmith 2y ago
  Is that more probable than using off-shore low-paid workers, like Carl’s Jr. and others (as mentioned in the article), or like the "Just Walk Out" technology at Amazon Fresh stores?
- DebtDeflation 2y ago
  This article even says as much: https://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-ai-voice-order-technology-drive-thrus-2024-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/mcdonalds-ai-voice-order-tec... >Under the partnership, IBM acquired McD Tech Labs, which McDonald's created after taking control of the AI speech company Apprente in 2019. Probably also using the cheapest non-noise-cancelling microphones they could find at the time.

dangus 2y ago

I would think that this is one of those LLM use cases that will definitely happen once McDonald’s finds a technology partner they like. On the other hand, I also wonder if humans are too good at this task to make a big capital investment worth it. The employees who take your orders at McDonald’s aren’t standing around doing nothing, they’re wearing a headset and multitasking.

moose_man 2y ago
The cost of implementing this system vs paying a teenager minimum wage makes it not worth, and probably not worth it for a while. A lot of use cases for generative AI seem to miss that you can get humans to do them for pretty low costs and installing a new AI system is quite expensive and potentially error prone.
- nojs 2y ago
  It becomes super valuable when the error rate is lower than humans though. I think this will be the main driver for applications like this.
  - moose_man 2y ago
    Yeah, but from what I can tell, there are some fundamental issues to be solved before we get an error rate anything like that with Generative AI.
    - furyofantares 2y ago
      I agree but would like to share an anecdote. There are some orders that I've found nearly impossible for humans to get right until I prompt engineered them. "Two double quarter pounders with cheese" will either be two quarter pounders with cheese, or one double quarter pounder with cheese. With humans I have to order "a double quarter pounder with cheese", wait for them to enter it, then "another double quarter pounder with cheese".
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  Where are teenagers getting paid minimum wage for these jobs though? Where I live fast food jobs now start at $15/hr, not because of any laws, but because you simply can't really get anyone cheaper than that. There have been tons of articles recently about how rising fast food prices are causing people to consider it a "luxury", and a huge part of those rising prices are rising wage costs. Where I live all the McDonald's now have kiosks inside for orders and fewer cashiers. I absolutely think shaving labor costs is something all fast food joints are interested in. I do agree with the other comment that drive-through workers multitask (scooping fries, filling drinks, etc.), so I'm not sure how much savings you'll get just from order automation.

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago

Is their bottom tier food really worth the same kind of indignity you're made to go through when you have to call your credit card company?

megadal 2y ago
Not sure about everyone else but where I'm from customer service is intentionally horrible everywhere within a 10 mile radius. To be fair I live in an affordable housing project from the 1900s but yeah. AI would definitely beat shouting matches in the drive thru.

rahimnathwani 2y ago

PSA: Use the McDonald's mobile app, and always check the 'Deals' section before you order. On average you'll probably save 15%. Sometimes with a BOGOF, at other times with a discounted item. You can still use the drive through if you like. Just mention your order code instead of telling them your whole order.

MrGinkgo 2y ago
You save 15% but mcdonalds makes millions off all the data you consent to giving them by downloading the app. I also heard that, buried in the T&C of their mobile app, you basically consent to rescinding your ability to sue them? I'm not trying to pull too much of a gotcha though, I use the app myself.
- dartos 2y ago
  I don’t think terms and conditions ate powerful enough to prevent you from suing them. That’s what the army of lawyers is for.
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  > You save 15% but mcdonalds makes millions off all the data you consent to giving them by downloading the app. People always talk about apps "selling your data," and I can understand it in cases like Facebook (and Meta platforms in general) and Google, but in this case, how would it happen that McDonalds "makes millions off all the data you consent to giving them?"
  - Aeglaecia 2y ago
    a nicely packaged bundle containing the information of hundreds of millions of customers' travel/spending/lifestyle habits ... would allow a company to sell more shit to those consumers ... so that information is worth money .... especially when collected en masse ...
  - autoexec 2y ago
    The last I heard McDonalds said they aren't selling some of your data (like your credit card info or your location data) but that doesn't mean they can't sell other data, sell any of that data at some later date, or that the data won't get leaked or stolen and sold by someone else. Hasn't pretty much everyone gotten several data breach notifications by now?

ivraatiems 2y ago

Carl's Jr was also piloting a similar technology. An AI took my order a few weeks ago, and mostly got it right (but didn't understand that I wanted "no sauce" with a certain item and gave me a side of sauce instead). I asked the real human at the window whether they liked the AI system. They said no, it made far too many mistakes. In fact, the company was going to be uninstalling it soon because it was wasting too much time. I can think of about a million reasons that might be, but one which particularly came to mind is that I live in an area where around 40% of people are Spanish speakers as their first language, and many of them speak no or very little English. The drive-thru employees would be completely capable of switching to Spanish (or summoning a Spanish-speaking employee) as needed, but according to the woman at the window, the AI couldn't do that. It also had issues with accents. None of that is unsolvable, but it's disappointing that it apparently wasn't even thought of.

theshrike79 2y ago
This is one of the things I don't get about the AI hype. Why does everyone want to use AI to _replace_ humans?[0] This sounds exactly like a case where an "AI" transcribing a human's order ALONGSIDE an actual human would be a perfect case for optimising. If the human mishears something for example, they can check what the AI interpreted, but still make their own decisions. [0] We all know: Greed. AI's don't join unions and don't get overtime pay.

ilaksh 2y ago

I was under the impression that the Checkers system was effective? https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/13ivx5s/a_robot_took_my_order_at_checkers_today_theyre/ https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/13ivx5s/a_robo...