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I've been an avid 1Password user for over 10 years, but since they gone full-throttle targeting the enterprise market, I'm getting more and more annoyed. It's i

by ipqk 2y ago

I've been an avid 1Password user for over 10 years, but since they gone full-throttle targeting the enterprise market, I'm getting more and more annoyed. It's increasingly buggy (right now, it thinks I haven't migrated from 1p7 which causes annoying interstitials that I can't close. Over a month and no fix yet.). They killed standalone vaults. Obvious feature requests (e.g archive an entire vault) sit there for years untouched. The value is increasingly not there anymore for me, and here's hoping I can finally jump ship this fall.

iansinnott 2y ago
I suspect you won't be satisfied with Apple's offering if you enjoy stable software, unfortunately. I agree regarding 1pass, but at least it's still firmly trying to solve the password management problem. Apple is trying to solve the vendor lock-in problem (i.e. how can they lock more users in to their platform).
- epistasis 2y ago
  I've been using Apple's password manager for more than a decade; and though the last OS update had a new UI, it still offered the old UI at the same time. Every other password manager I have tried has had continuous churn, nothing consistent after a couple years. I have passwords for accounts in my Apple keychain that have survived more than decade and about half a dozen different devices, to internal servers that have been dead for a decade. The only new thing here is opening it up to more platforms.
- twixfel 2y ago
  My last password manager got sold to some guy in Morocco and my passwords put behind a pay wall, and then lost. Bring on the vendor lock in, I’m so done with all that other shit.
  - ketralnis 2y ago
    What company was this?
    - twixfel 2y ago
      Raivo OTP (written by security researcher Tijme Gommers, who really should know better, or just didn't care) got sold to Mobime (some guy in Morocco as far as I can tell).
data-ottawa 2y ago
Ever since Apple added password management to Safari it’s been clear that 1Password was going to get Sherlocked, the switch to enterprise mashes perfect sense from a corporate perspective. Chrome and Firefox offer the same features, so now every browser is competing too. I’m finding most of the friction with 1Password I run into is actually Apple competing for autofill in Safari creating two completely different UIs above every form element. The other issue I have is Safari Home apps not supporting extensions so you can only use Safari’s built in manager. I think that’s fixed in Sequoia.
- bradgessler 2y ago
  Apple uses 1Password enterprise internally, so I doubt we’ll see it get completely Sherlocked since enterprise will continue using it. Passwords.app will be used by folks who can’t be bothered to pay for a password manager, which won’t do much to 1Password’s bottom line. There’s a lot of prior art like Apple uses Cisco WebEx instead of FaceTime for video collaboration. The products Apple produces are just very different than their enterprise counterparts.
  - sleepybrett 2y ago
    Yeah i'm not sure apple wants to tackle things like 'shared vaults' outside of family sharing.
- mdaniel 2y ago
  > clear that 1Password was going to get Sherlocked, I'm actually of the same opinion as the GP comment, modulo that I'm not ever going to jump ship to an Apple password manager, but I'll point out that 1Password will most certainly not get Sherlocked since they are not Apple-centric and thus Apple would have to (gasp) release a Passwords.app client for Windows and Linux plus a cli and kubernetes operator in order to hold a candle to the reach that 1P has
  - noahtallen 2y ago
    Passwords.app is coming to windows (iCloud is on Windows already)
rootusrootus 2y ago
My biggest worry about passwords by Apple is that I have even less pull when they screw it up. Not that I have a lot of input in 1Password, of course, but I bet if I get loud enough on HN for long enough, I could get the attention of the CEO. Try that with Apple. As a long time user (sufferer) of Screen Time, I am acutely aware of how badly Apple can screw up software, and how long they can let it go unfixed. Tim Cook ain't ever going to hear my pleas.
- tyingq 2y ago
  Might be outweighed by the bigger effects when they do screw something up. Like if their passwords mess up for amazon.com, some big airline, Facebook, etc... the noise will get pretty loud pretty quick.
  - devsda 2y ago
    I know that some people were able to successfully get through to a human/support at Google via HN. I don't remember seeing those for Apple. Are there examples of anyone failing to get meaningful help from official support but were able to find a successful resolution through HN ?
- burnte 2y ago
  This is exactly why I use 1Password and not the manager in Chrome, and I won't use Apple Passwords either.
- icee 2y ago
  Keychain Access has been there since the beginning of OSX/macOS. It's quietly been storing email and wifi passwords this entire time. Many, before there was an alternative like 1Password, used the app to store other info within as well through secure notes. Passwords in iOS and Safari, along with Keychain sync in iCloud have expanded the keychain functionality over the years and it's been fine for ~25 years or so. I have faith they won't suddenly screw this up and comparisons to less critical stuff like Screen Time aren't really valid here. And sherlocking? I don't think so. When 1Password came out, it was clearly inspired by Keychain Access that had been there for years prior with similar functionality and even user interfaces.
sigzero 2y ago
FWIW, I have had zero issues with 1P version 8.
hot_gril 2y ago
What's new that lets you jump ship now?
kelchm 2y ago
I’m still annoyed by the little things — like the fact they switched from a very native looking 1Password toolbar icon in Safari to the ugly full color icon. https://1password.community/discussion/128524/add-options-to-change-1password-for-safaris-icon https://1password.community/discussion/128524/add-options-to... Seriously, this is the kind of thing that an intern could knock out in a week. I don’t understand why it hasn’t been addressed.
alx__ 2y ago
Is your computer managed by Jamf? I had that 1Password 7 issue because of policy issue
bowsamic 2y ago
I've used Bitwarden for a while now and it has been so better than LastPass or 1Password ever was for me. I never understood the 1Password hype, it was easily the worst experience of any password manager I tried.
- lxgr 2y ago
  Bitwarden gets my vote too. Besides just working as expected, it importantly supports self-hosting. I don't currently make use of that, but have given it a try and it's great as well. Having alternatives to the SaaS (currently very reasonably priced) is invaluable.
- nashashmi 2y ago
  I miss lastpass auto login. And i wish bitwarden had a merge for duplicate entries. Otherwise, bw is good. I also wish i was able to utilize totp keys like i can with iCloud
  - briffle 2y ago
    I use TOTP keys in bitwarden all the time. Along with passkeys that has recently been added.
    - nashashmi 2y ago
      Totp is behind a paywall. https://bitwarden.com/pricing/#:~:text=for%20Organizational%20Items-,Integrated%20Authenticator%20(TOTP),%EE%A4%92,-Vault%20Health%20Reports https://bitwarden.com/pricing/#:~:text=for%20Organizational%...
- nativeit 2y ago
  Same here. I tried them all several years ago, and BW was the only one that gave me anything like a native experience across all of my wildly varying devices.
- tstrimple 2y ago
  For a time 1Password had the best integration and UX across Apple devices of any of the password managers. That has become less and less true over time. Integration issues over the last year have me excited to try Apple's Passwords implementation as a replacement. Bitwarden is on my list as well, but haven't pulled the trigger due to switching costs for a family of five who all use 1password currently.
ents 2y ago
Same here. Hoping I can jump ship before next renewal.
drcongo 2y ago
I'm only still on it because of team use, but if Apple's thing supports teams I'm gonna be so happy to get rid of it. I've been using it for nearly 20 years and it's been going down hill fast for the last 5, but 1Password 8 is an absolute clown car. It hijacks your passkey logins meaning that authenticating with Tailscale for me has gone from a single touch of the TouchID button on my Mac, to 1) click button that says "Unlock 1Password", 2) Click it again because it did fuck all the first time, 3) hit the global hotkey for 1Password, 4) open 1Password via Alfred because the hotkey has decided to stop working again, 5) touch the TouchID button to unlock 1Password, 6) switch back to the browser to find that my Tailscale auth has timed out, 7) back to iTerm to initiate the auth again, 8) if I'm lucky, I can now touch the TouchID button to use my Apple passkey, if I'm not, it's back to step 1. I'd challenge anyone to name an app that has been ruined more by VC money than 1Password.
- acdha 2y ago
  The password sharing feature is pretty slick: https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/share-passwords-iphe6b2b7043/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/share-passwords-iphe6... I’m with you on 1P. I bought every version starting in 2009, until the constant push to subscribe made me stop. The part their VCs should be afraid of is that switching took about 5 minutes (export + import) and the only change I noticed is that everything is faster. That moat is a trickle of water (I hope it’s water) and they’ve annoyed a lot of the people who used to be telling their friends and family to buy it.
  - robbiep 2y ago
    I’m pleased to hear that switching is simple - it has been a major impediment for getting me and my team to switch. We’re currently on 1p as an org and I bought initially back at 6/7. Just changed to 8 reluctantly as I had ‘my’ stuff in my own vault. I had heard that it was not easy
- sooheon 2y ago
  You nailed my 8 step 1P unlock workflow. They've really done a great job standardizing the user experience.
dylan604 2y ago
I have been fighting switching to the SaaS version. Paying a monthly fee for access to my passwords is highway robbery. I do not want/need any of these other "services" they forced upon me. I have trying Apples keychain, but that migration is slow and a total pain in the ass. And it's not even a good replacement. I'm sure 1Password doesn't care one iota about loosing individual users with attitudes like this. Until the forced to a monthly rent seeking hand in my pocket policy was deployed, I had been a vocal advocate for 1Pass. Now, they're about to loose me altogether
- troad 2y ago
  > I have been fighting switching to the SaaS version I felt that way on principle for a long time, but honestly, on reflection, 1P is probably subscription that is most justifiable. I want to outsource online security to people that know what they are doing. I want that to be a viable business for a long time into the future. And I want their funding model to be such that their interests are aligned with those of their paying users (me). People can get so irrational when it comes to the cost of software. The same person who'd pay hundreds of dollars for a cleaner, or a gym membership, will swear up and down that 70 bucks a year for an online bodyguard is highway robbery.
  - bdzr 2y ago
    > People can get so irrational when it comes to the cost of software. The same person who'd pay hundreds of dollars for a cleaner, or a gym membership, will swear up and down that 70 bucks a year for an online bodyguard is highway robbery. Often while refusing to work for less than six figures as a SWE, hating on companies for seeking VC funding, dismissing non open-source approaches, and then complaining why there aren't more alternatives :)
    - sleepybrett 2y ago
      I'm not sure a password database is a 'online bodyguard'. I am sure that 1password has been going downhill for a few years now. Getting rid of the ability for me to manage my own vault was the last straw for me. I'm still limping along with 1password7 with a local vault for my 'important/sensitive' passwords but i let keychain manage most of my randomass website passwords. Since I'm primarily in the apple ecosystem this works out for me, I do have some linux in my life too, but since I generally access those linux resources using a mac it's just not much of a problem. I think this new interface to the password feature in macos will probably put even more of a dent into 1password/bitwarden/etc's consumer business driving them even further into catering to enterprise, it's a pitty, but 'this isn't a product, this a feature'.

by ipqk 2y ago

iansinnott 2y ago

I suspect you won't be satisfied with Apple's offering if you enjoy stable software, unfortunately. I agree regarding 1pass, but at least it's still firmly trying to solve the password management problem. Apple is trying to solve the vendor lock-in problem (i.e. how can they lock more users in to their platform).

epistasis 2y ago
I've been using Apple's password manager for more than a decade; and though the last OS update had a new UI, it still offered the old UI at the same time. Every other password manager I have tried has had continuous churn, nothing consistent after a couple years. I have passwords for accounts in my Apple keychain that have survived more than decade and about half a dozen different devices, to internal servers that have been dead for a decade. The only new thing here is opening it up to more platforms.
twixfel 2y ago
My last password manager got sold to some guy in Morocco and my passwords put behind a pay wall, and then lost. Bring on the vendor lock in, I’m so done with all that other shit.
- ketralnis 2y ago
  What company was this?
  - twixfel 2y ago
    Raivo OTP (written by security researcher Tijme Gommers, who really should know better, or just didn't care) got sold to Mobime (some guy in Morocco as far as I can tell).

data-ottawa 2y ago

Ever since Apple added password management to Safari it’s been clear that 1Password was going to get Sherlocked, the switch to enterprise mashes perfect sense from a corporate perspective. Chrome and Firefox offer the same features, so now every browser is competing too. I’m finding most of the friction with 1Password I run into is actually Apple competing for autofill in Safari creating two completely different UIs above every form element. The other issue I have is Safari Home apps not supporting extensions so you can only use Safari’s built in manager. I think that’s fixed in Sequoia.

bradgessler 2y ago
Apple uses 1Password enterprise internally, so I doubt we’ll see it get completely Sherlocked since enterprise will continue using it. Passwords.app will be used by folks who can’t be bothered to pay for a password manager, which won’t do much to 1Password’s bottom line. There’s a lot of prior art like Apple uses Cisco WebEx instead of FaceTime for video collaboration. The products Apple produces are just very different than their enterprise counterparts.
- sleepybrett 2y ago
  Yeah i'm not sure apple wants to tackle things like 'shared vaults' outside of family sharing.
mdaniel 2y ago
> clear that 1Password was going to get Sherlocked, I'm actually of the same opinion as the GP comment, modulo that I'm not ever going to jump ship to an Apple password manager, but I'll point out that 1Password will most certainly not get Sherlocked since they are not Apple-centric and thus Apple would have to (gasp) release a Passwords.app client for Windows and Linux plus a cli and kubernetes operator in order to hold a candle to the reach that 1P has
- noahtallen 2y ago
  Passwords.app is coming to windows (iCloud is on Windows already)

rootusrootus 2y ago

My biggest worry about passwords by Apple is that I have even less pull when they screw it up. Not that I have a lot of input in 1Password, of course, but I bet if I get loud enough on HN for long enough, I could get the attention of the CEO. Try that with Apple. As a long time user (sufferer) of Screen Time, I am acutely aware of how badly Apple can screw up software, and how long they can let it go unfixed. Tim Cook ain't ever going to hear my pleas.

tyingq 2y ago
Might be outweighed by the bigger effects when they do screw something up. Like if their passwords mess up for amazon.com, some big airline, Facebook, etc... the noise will get pretty loud pretty quick.
- devsda 2y ago
  I know that some people were able to successfully get through to a human/support at Google via HN. I don't remember seeing those for Apple. Are there examples of anyone failing to get meaningful help from official support but were able to find a successful resolution through HN ?
burnte 2y ago
This is exactly why I use 1Password and not the manager in Chrome, and I won't use Apple Passwords either.
icee 2y ago
Keychain Access has been there since the beginning of OSX/macOS. It's quietly been storing email and wifi passwords this entire time. Many, before there was an alternative like 1Password, used the app to store other info within as well through secure notes. Passwords in iOS and Safari, along with Keychain sync in iCloud have expanded the keychain functionality over the years and it's been fine for ~25 years or so. I have faith they won't suddenly screw this up and comparisons to less critical stuff like Screen Time aren't really valid here. And sherlocking? I don't think so. When 1Password came out, it was clearly inspired by Keychain Access that had been there for years prior with similar functionality and even user interfaces.

sigzero 2y ago

FWIW, I have had zero issues with 1P version 8.

hot_gril 2y ago

What's new that lets you jump ship now?

kelchm 2y ago

I’m still annoyed by the little things — like the fact they switched from a very native looking 1Password toolbar icon in Safari to the ugly full color icon. https://1password.community/discussion/128524/add-options-to-change-1password-for-safaris-icon https://1password.community/discussion/128524/add-options-to... Seriously, this is the kind of thing that an intern could knock out in a week. I don’t understand why it hasn’t been addressed.

alx__ 2y ago

Is your computer managed by Jamf? I had that 1Password 7 issue because of policy issue

bowsamic 2y ago

I've used Bitwarden for a while now and it has been so better than LastPass or 1Password ever was for me. I never understood the 1Password hype, it was easily the worst experience of any password manager I tried.

lxgr 2y ago
Bitwarden gets my vote too. Besides just working as expected, it importantly supports self-hosting. I don't currently make use of that, but have given it a try and it's great as well. Having alternatives to the SaaS (currently very reasonably priced) is invaluable.
nashashmi 2y ago
I miss lastpass auto login. And i wish bitwarden had a merge for duplicate entries. Otherwise, bw is good. I also wish i was able to utilize totp keys like i can with iCloud
- briffle 2y ago
  I use TOTP keys in bitwarden all the time. Along with passkeys that has recently been added.
  - nashashmi 2y ago
    Totp is behind a paywall. https://bitwarden.com/pricing/#:~:text=for%20Organizational%20Items-,Integrated%20Authenticator%20(TOTP),%EE%A4%92,-Vault%20Health%20Reports https://bitwarden.com/pricing/#:~:text=for%20Organizational%...
nativeit 2y ago
Same here. I tried them all several years ago, and BW was the only one that gave me anything like a native experience across all of my wildly varying devices.
tstrimple 2y ago
For a time 1Password had the best integration and UX across Apple devices of any of the password managers. That has become less and less true over time. Integration issues over the last year have me excited to try Apple's Passwords implementation as a replacement. Bitwarden is on my list as well, but haven't pulled the trigger due to switching costs for a family of five who all use 1password currently.

ents 2y ago

Same here. Hoping I can jump ship before next renewal.

drcongo 2y ago

I'm only still on it because of team use, but if Apple's thing supports teams I'm gonna be so happy to get rid of it. I've been using it for nearly 20 years and it's been going down hill fast for the last 5, but 1Password 8 is an absolute clown car. It hijacks your passkey logins meaning that authenticating with Tailscale for me has gone from a single touch of the TouchID button on my Mac, to 1) click button that says "Unlock 1Password", 2) Click it again because it did fuck all the first time, 3) hit the global hotkey for 1Password, 4) open 1Password via Alfred because the hotkey has decided to stop working again, 5) touch the TouchID button to unlock 1Password, 6) switch back to the browser to find that my Tailscale auth has timed out, 7) back to iTerm to initiate the auth again, 8) if I'm lucky, I can now touch the TouchID button to use my Apple passkey, if I'm not, it's back to step 1. I'd challenge anyone to name an app that has been ruined more by VC money than 1Password.

acdha 2y ago
The password sharing feature is pretty slick: https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/share-passwords-iphe6b2b7043/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/share-passwords-iphe6... I’m with you on 1P. I bought every version starting in 2009, until the constant push to subscribe made me stop. The part their VCs should be afraid of is that switching took about 5 minutes (export + import) and the only change I noticed is that everything is faster. That moat is a trickle of water (I hope it’s water) and they’ve annoyed a lot of the people who used to be telling their friends and family to buy it.
- robbiep 2y ago
  I’m pleased to hear that switching is simple - it has been a major impediment for getting me and my team to switch. We’re currently on 1p as an org and I bought initially back at 6/7. Just changed to 8 reluctantly as I had ‘my’ stuff in my own vault. I had heard that it was not easy
sooheon 2y ago
You nailed my 8 step 1P unlock workflow. They've really done a great job standardizing the user experience.

dylan604 2y ago

I have been fighting switching to the SaaS version. Paying a monthly fee for access to my passwords is highway robbery. I do not want/need any of these other "services" they forced upon me. I have trying Apples keychain, but that migration is slow and a total pain in the ass. And it's not even a good replacement. I'm sure 1Password doesn't care one iota about loosing individual users with attitudes like this. Until the forced to a monthly rent seeking hand in my pocket policy was deployed, I had been a vocal advocate for 1Pass. Now, they're about to loose me altogether

troad 2y ago
> I have been fighting switching to the SaaS version I felt that way on principle for a long time, but honestly, on reflection, 1P is probably subscription that is most justifiable. I want to outsource online security to people that know what they are doing. I want that to be a viable business for a long time into the future. And I want their funding model to be such that their interests are aligned with those of their paying users (me). People can get so irrational when it comes to the cost of software. The same person who'd pay hundreds of dollars for a cleaner, or a gym membership, will swear up and down that 70 bucks a year for an online bodyguard is highway robbery.
- bdzr 2y ago
  > People can get so irrational when it comes to the cost of software. The same person who'd pay hundreds of dollars for a cleaner, or a gym membership, will swear up and down that 70 bucks a year for an online bodyguard is highway robbery. Often while refusing to work for less than six figures as a SWE, hating on companies for seeking VC funding, dismissing non open-source approaches, and then complaining why there aren't more alternatives :)
  - sleepybrett 2y ago
    I'm not sure a password database is a 'online bodyguard'. I am sure that 1password has been going downhill for a few years now. Getting rid of the ability for me to manage my own vault was the last straw for me. I'm still limping along with 1password7 with a local vault for my 'important/sensitive' passwords but i let keychain manage most of my randomass website passwords. Since I'm primarily in the apple ecosystem this works out for me, I do have some linux in my life too, but since I generally access those linux resources using a mac it's just not much of a problem. I think this new interface to the password feature in macos will probably put even more of a dent into 1password/bitwarden/etc's consumer business driving them even further into catering to enterprise, it's a pitty, but 'this isn't a product, this a feature'.