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IMO this really feels like the Facebook / Twitter integration from early iOS. That only lasted a few years. Apple clearly thinks it needs a dedicated LLM servi
by blueelephanttea 2y ago
IMO this really feels like the Facebook / Twitter integration from early iOS. That only lasted a few years.
Apple clearly thinks it needs a dedicated LLM service atm. But still thinks it is only supplemental as they handle a bunch of the core stuff without it. And require explicit user consent to use OpenAI. And Apple clearly views it as a partial commodity since they even said they plan to add others.
Tough to bet against OpenAI right now...but this deal does not feel like a 10 year deal...
- halotrope 2y agoyeah somehow it reminded me of the fb integration too. we‘ll see how well it works in practice. i was hoping for them to show the sky demo with the new voice mode that openai recently demoed
- cyanydeez 2y agoApple is also claiming they are gonna go privacy protecting AI. I'm quite skeptical of Apple.
- nsonha 2y agoDoubt that Apple can ever come up with a better LLM than OpenAI's, they stopped trying to make Siri as good as Google Assistant after 10+ years now. I don't think they are that good at Cloud or ML compared to other big techs
- EasyMark 2y agoCouldn’t it be they’re just feeling out the partnership without going all in?
- lanza 2y agoDitto. They'll use it now while they stand to benefit and in 3 years they'll be lambasting OpenAI publicly for not being private enough with data and pretend that they never had anything to do with them.
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- chaosmanorism 2y ago[flagged]
- nextworddev 2y agoThis partnership is structured so that no data is logged or sent to OpenAI.
- LtWorf 2y agoSure
- wmf 2y agoThe UI shows a "do you want your data to be sent to OpenAI?" popup.
- noahtallen 2y agoThe parent is partially right, the keynote mentioned that OpenAI agreed to not track Apple user requests.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoI would like to see that codified in a binding agreement regulators can surface in discovery if needed. Trust but verify.
- hnaccount_rng 2y agoI'm reasonably sure you just described the SEC and the (paraphrasing Matt Levine) "everything is securities fraud"-doctrine. Yes Apple has some wiggle room if they rely on rule-lawyering, but.. I really don't think they can wide-spread ignore the intention of the statements made today.
- adolph 2y agoNot looking forward to the equivalent of the early Apple Maps years.
- hehdhdjehehegwv 2y agoThere’s a lot I don’t like about Sam Altman. There’s a lot I don’t like about OpenAI. But goddamn they absolutely leapfrogged Google and Apple and it’s completely amazing to see these trillion dollar companies play catch-up with a start-up. I want to see more of this. Big Tech has been holding back innovation for too long.
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- Fricken 2y agoChange is inevitable in the AI space, and the changes come in fits and starts. In a decade OpenAI too may become a hapless fiefdom lorded over by the previous generation's AI talent.
- swatcoder 2y agoThey "leapfrogged" Google on providing a natural language interface to the world knowledge we'd gotten used to retrieving throug web search. But Apple's never done more than toyed in that space. Apple's focus has long been on a lifestyle product experience across their portfolio of hardware, and Apple Intelligence appears to be focused exactly on that in a way that has little overlap with OpenAI's offerings. The partnership agreement announced today is just outsourcing an accessory tool to a popular and suitably scaled vendor, the same as they did for web search and social network integration in the past. Nobody's leapfrogging anybody between these two because they're on totally different paths.
- hehdhdjehehegwv 2y agoApple bought Siri 14 years ago, derailed the progress and promise it had by neglect, and ended up needing a bail out from Sam once he kicked their ass in assistants. Call it whatever you want.
- itishappy 2y agoSiri is a toy, but I don't think that was Apple's intent. It's been a long-standing complaint that using Siri to search the web sucks compared to other companies offerings.
- Ancapistani 2y agoMy gut says that it's a stopgap solution to implement the experience they want. I think Apple's ultimate goal is to move as much of the AI functionality as possible on-device.
- helsinkiandrew 2y agoBut they’ve also signalled they’ll probably support Google/Anthropic in the future > Apple demoed other generative features beyond the OpenAI integration and said it plans to announce support for other AI models in the future.
- wg0 2y agoActually, just in three to five years, lots of "AI boxes" and those magical sparkling icons next to input fields summoning AI would be silently removed. LLMs are not accurate, they aren't subject matter experts that'll be maybe within 5% error margin. People will gradually learn and discover anf the cost of keeping a model updated and running won't drastically reduce so we'll most likely see dust settling down.
- ben_w 2y ago> LLMs are not accurate, they aren't subject matter experts that'll be maybe within 5% error margin. The Gell Mann amnesia effect suggests people will have a very hard time noticing the difference. Even if the models never improve, they're more accurate than a lot of newspaper reporting. > People will gradually learn and discover anf the cost of keeping a model updated and running won't drastically reduce so we'll most likely see dust settling down. So, you're betting on no significant cost reduction of compute hardware? Seems implausible to me.
- thesz 2y ago> So, you're betting on no significant cost reduction of compute hardware? Seems implausible to me. This is not about compute, but about data. https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.04125 https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.04125 "...our study reveals an exponential need for training data which implies that the key to "zero-shot" generalization capabilities under large-scale training paradigms remains to be found."
- nativeit 2y ago> …they’re more accurate than a lot of newspaper reporting. Is that when they’re cribbing straight out of the newspaper pages, or is this just a cynical snipe at the poor state of media that, not for nothing, tech companies have had a fair hand in kneecapping?
- ben_w 2y agoThe criticism of the performance of newspapers goes back well before Lovelace and Babbage: """I will add, that the man who never looks into a newspaper is better informed than he who reads them; inasmuch as he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. He who reads nothing will still learn the great facts, and the details are all false.""" - Thomas Jefferson (not Mark Twain), 1807, https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mark-twain-read-newspaper-misinformed/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mark-twain-read-newspaper-...
- MangoCoffee 2y agoIt's a win for OpenAI and AI. I remember someone on Hacker News commented that OpenAI is a company searching for a market. This move might prove that AI, and OpenAI, has a legitimate way to be used and profitable. We'll see.
- eddieplan9 2y agoSteve Jobs famously said Dropbox is a feature not a product. This feels very much like it.
- joegibbs 2y agoI think he was right - now you've got OneDrive automatically bundled into Windows, iCloud in MacOS, Google Cloud in the Google ecosystem and Dropbox down 25% from IPO with no growth. I get nagging emails from them every month or so asking me to upgrade to a paid plan because I'll definitely not regret it.
- nextworddev 2y agoWell, Dropbox is a sub $8bn company now that hasn't really grown in 5 years, so maybe Steve was right?
- dymk 2y agoLooking at their stock performance and the amount of work they’ve put into features that aren’t Dropbox file sync, he appears to have been right. iCloud doc syncing is what DB offered at that time.
- kovezd 2y agoDisagree. This feels more like the Google partnership with Apple' Safari that has lasted for long time. Except in this case, I think is OpenAI who will get the big checks.
- rfdearborn 2y agoThis integration is way more limited and frictioned. Whereas with search Apple's fully outsourced and queries go straight to your 3rd-party default, Siri escalates to GPT only for certain queries and with one-off permissions. They seem to be calculating that their cross-app context, custom silicon, and privacy branding give them a still-worthwhile shot at winning the Assistant War. I think this is reasonable, especially if open source AI continues to keep pace with the frontier.
- lxgr 2y agoWhy would Apple want to keep paying big checks while simultaneously weakening their privacy story?
- dereg 2y agoIf Apple wasn't selling privacy, I'd assume the other way around. Or if anything, OpenAI would give the service out for free. There's a reason why ChatGPT became free to the public, GPT-4o moreover. It's obvious that OpenAI needs whatever data it can get its hands on to train GPT-5.
- astrange 2y agoChatGPT was free to the public because it was a toy for a conference. They didn't expect it to be popular because it was basically already available in Playground for months. I think 4o is free because GPT3.5 was so relatively bad it means people are constantly claiming LLMs can't do things that 4 does just fine.
- Dunedan 2y agoApple doesn't even bother to highlight their cooperation with OpenAI. Instead they bury the integration of ChatGPT as the last section of their "Apple Intelligence" announcement: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/06/introducing-apple-intelligence-for-iphone-ipad-and-mac/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/06/introducing-apple-int...