11 ms·
Apollo 8 astronaut William Anders ID'd in WA plane crash
- TMWNN 2y agoI learned about this from Reddit <https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/1daolaw/rip_bill_anders/ https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/1daolaw/rip_bill_and...>. Title edited by me from "WA" to "Washington State". Besides making history as the first human expedition to the Moon, Apollo 8 produced not one, but two future CEOs of Fortune 500 companies: Anders (General Dynamics) and Frank Borman (Eastern Airlines). Jim Lovell "merely" survived Apollo 13.
- rconti 2y agoAs a WA native: happy for the edit of the ambiguous and US-centric acronym WA -> Washington. Also as a WA native: screw those DC assholes, why are we the only state that have to append "state" to our name?
- lamontcg 2y agoThen sometimes Western Australia pops up randomly.
- defrost 2y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6kTOVW7CXk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6kTOVW7CXk
- pcl 2y agoWell, at least you get representation in Congress!
- mannykannot 2y agoNew York calling... Disambiguation is sometimes necessary and, a bit more often, just a good idea.
- acheron 2y agoShould have picked a different name then, Washington DC had already been around for a century. (Also, New York has to append “state” too.)
- toomuchtodo 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Anders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Anders He took the Earthrise photo, which Nature photographer Galen Rowell described as "the most influential environmental photograph ever taken": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthrise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthrise https://www.abc.net.au/science/moon/earthrise.htm https://www.abc.net.au/science/moon/earthrise.htm
- jvm___ 2y agoThe shutter speed was 1/250th of a second, so the earth rotated about 4 miles or 6 kms while the shutter was open. Not enough to blur the photo obviously, but crazy to think about.
- danielecook 2y agoI’m confused. Does this math check out? Circumference is 24,901 - so about 1000 mph at equator. 1000 mph / 3600 s / h = 0.27 mps 0.27 * (1/250) = 0.001 miles? Doing this math on my phone but am I missing something here?
- thsksbd 2y agoI got the same answer
- Choco31415 2y agoEven if we stretch out and look at how fast the Earth orbits the sun, it still doesn't explain the 4 mile figure. Earth's orbital speed: 66,200 mph 66,200 mph / 3600 s/h = 18.38 mps 18.38 * (1/250) = 0.07 miles
- mrb 2y agoYou are correct. Using GNU units: $ units '2 * pi * earthradius / day * (second / 250)' Definition: 1.8532517 m Which is 0.0011515572 miles...
- tomrod 2y agoI think it's relative and phrased poorly, since the orbiter has to circle the earth at a certain faster speed. But quick googling shows Apollo 8 was traveling about a mile a second?
- BSOhealth 2y agoAll respect, this guy is was ~91. I’m uncomfortable driving with my mom. As a total layperson, what sort of tests does a person have to pass annually(?) to maintain a pilot’s license? Or is this dude just so O.G. that he was bound to go out living his dream?
- p51-remorse 2y agoAt a minimum, flight reviews every two years. More applicable to a 90yo is keeping a medical.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- SoftTalker 2y agoFor private flying, the medical is a lot less stringent (as I understand it.... I'm not a pilot).
- p51-remorse 2y agoEh… a third class medical still is highly sensitive to your medical history. See /r/flying for various tribulations even young people have gone through for relatively benign things.
- pkilgore 2y agoYou're probably still healthier than most of the country if you have a Third Class. According to the FAA airman registry he was flying on BasicMed (less strict than third class, but comes with loss of certain privileges). WILLIAM ALISON ANDERS Airman opted-out of releasing address Medical Information: Medical Class: Third Medical Date: 10/2013 MUST HAVE AVAILABLE GLASSES FOR NEAR VISION. NOT VALID FOR ANY CLASS AFTER 10/31/2014. BasicMed Course Date: 3/22/2023 BasicMed CMEC Date: 3/22/2023 Certificates
- losteric 2y agoand one can absolutely get examined by a “pilot’s doctors”
- bicx 2y agoI saw the headline earlier, and my first thought was "I hope he was the pilot, because that would be a fitting way to go for a legend." Not only was he the pilot, but he was flying solo at 90 years old.
- schiffern 2y agoWhat a legend indeed. Godspeed, Bill. :salute:
- jrootabega 2y ago[flagged]
- sillysaurusx 2y agoDoes a solo plane crash have a statistically smaller chance of hurting anybody else?
- KennyBlanken 2y agoCrashes are most common on takeoff and landing, and that means you're over populated areas. GA and military crashes that kill people on the ground happen all the time. Used to happen all the time at airshows, too - until airshows adopted very strict rules around planes never having a trajectory that heads towards the audience. But that's all beside the point. A 90 year old has no business flying a fighter jet, and I don't care if he was a former astronaut or not. He certainly didn't have any business doing so alone. Reaction time goes down dramatically with age and nothing can be done about that. Mental capacity diminishes, too; mistakes skyrocket, which is why we have so many elderly people ramming their cars into convenience stores and such. Health risks like a stroke, especially in an aircraft that can generate high g's.The body's tolerance for heat and cold goes down. It was incredibly selfish of him to keep flying.
- knodi123 2y ago> flying a fighter jet It was a military trainer propellor plane. But your point stands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_T-34_Mentor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_T-34_Mentor
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 2y agoWas he doing loops/flips intentionally, or did he lose control of the plane? Either way, what an absolute legend to be flying solo at his age.
- AmVess 2y agoIntentional loop. He entered it too fast and too low. On the descent, he was going too fast for his aircraft to have any type of control authority and he was a passenger at that point. The aircraft basically stalled out in a dive, and with no cohesive airflow over the control surfaces, the aircraft continued to stall to the point of impact.
- wszrfcbhujnikm 2y agoWhat could be the reasons for this? Misread the altitude? Sudden wind?
- TylerE 2y agoBarring a pre-crash sequence mechanical failure, this was pilot error. There is a safe speed called Va, or maneuvering speed. While most aircraft will have higher maximum allowed speeds, maneuvering speed is the most important figure for aerobatics because it's the maximum speed at which the airplane's flight controls can be used at full deflection (i.e. maximum effort) without exceeding the structural capabilities of the aircraft. What most likely happened was was a loss of situational awareness in the pre-loop dive, resulting in a steeper and faster dive than intended.
- greenyoda 2y ago> the plane that crashed was a vintage Air Force T-34 Mentor... About the plane: "The Beechcraft T-34 Mentor is an American propeller-driven, single-engined, military trainer aircraft derived from the Beechcraft Model 35 Bonanza." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_T-34_Mentor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_T-34_Mentor
- consumer451 2y agoHere is a photo of Major Anders in his T-34, from 5 years ago. https://www.flickr.com/photos/dschultz742/33725755078 https://www.flickr.com/photos/dschultz742/33725755078
- dtparr 2y agoMajor General Anders, actually. O8 vs. O4.
- consumer451 2y agoThank you for the correction. The man certainly deserves it.
- dclowd9901 2y agoMan what a cool plane.
- Dalewyn 2y agoRest in peace, I'm sad to hear this especially with so few Apollo astronauts still around.
- trentnix 2y agoDied at 91 flying his jet. What a badass. Godspeed.
- jefftk 2y agonit: the T-34 Mentor is a propellor plane
- kibwen 2y agoWhen you've ridden a Saturn V, the difference between a jet engine and a prop engine becomes immaterial.
- jefftk 2y agoI'd be surprised to see a pilot endorse that
- BenFranklin100 2y agoDevelopers are such on-the-spectrum nitpickers. I guess that is what makes them good at their jobs and such unenjoyable cocktail party companions.
- hiddencost 2y agoSays the one who managed to insult autistic people and engineers at the same time? Many of the best partiers I know are on the spectrum.
- BenFranklin100 2y agoYou guys dress poorly too.
- pfannkuchen 2y agoIs it even a nitpick in this case? It would have been substantially more badass to die flying a jet at 90. If it's relevant to the point I don't see how it's a nitpick. Now picking on a particular model distinction or something like that I could get on board with.
- ls612 2y agoMan flys to the moon and back, and then 55 years later as a 91 year old dies flying a jet aircraft. Some are just built different.
- rmason 2y agoIn my opinion Chuck Yeager was the best pilot ever. A World War 2 ace who shot down 13 German planes. First to break the sound barrier. But Yeager took his last flight in a jet at 79 (with a copilot) and surrendered his pilots license at age 80. I am not taking anything away from William Anders but 91 might have been just too old to be responsibly flying a jet.
- mulmen 2y agoThe T-34 is not a jet.
- BenFranklin100 2y ago[flagged]
- AceJohnny2 2y ago> flying a jet aircraft Not a jet. The T-34 is a propeller aircraft, used for training.
- ls612 2y agoMy bad my mind substituted in T-38 I thought he was flying an old jet trainer not a turboprop.
- hollerith 2y agoThe important distinction is not whether it has a propeller, but rather the powerplant: is it a reciprocating engine or a gas turbine? I'm going to go out on a limb a little and say that every single warplane in the US military has a gas turbine engine. Some gas turbines drive a propeller (turboprop).
- FpUser 2y agoWhat a life. And be able to pilot at 91 is nothing short of a miracle. Godspeed
- cowsandmilk 2y agoWent kayaking with two of his sons in Costa Rica. They’re an adventurous bunch.
- avalys 2y agoSince there’s a lot of commenting about his age, I’ll remark (as a 36-year-old private pilot) that in my opinion an elderly man flying recreationally is actually much less hazardous to the general public than an elderly man driving a car. Flying is a specialized skill, but once you learn it it’s not especially difficult and requires less sustained focus, reflexes and reaction time than driving. It’s not as if there’s any chance you’ll run over a 6-year-old who jumps out in front of your plane at 7,500 feet.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- subhro 2y ago> Flying is a specialized skill, but once you learn it it’s not especially difficult and requires less sustained focus, reflexes and reaction time than driving. Respectfully disagree (as a 40-something year old aerobatic pilot) with the less sustained focus part, not the specialized skill part.
- filleduchaos 2y agoI'm not a pilot, but I have a bit of a morbid fascination with aviation incidents, and I think I agree with both of you somewhat? The average flight deck is a hell of a lot more complicated than the average driver's seat in terms of things the operator needs to pay attention to, so I'd definitely say that flying requires more sustained focus. However, during routine flight (not counting taking off and landing, because I know those are very high workload periods?) pilots have a lot more time and space than drivers do to recover from a situation before it becomes a catastrophic failure, especially when it comes to danger to others outside the vehicle. So I'd also say that driving on average requires better reflexes and reaction times to prevent accidents. Take collisions for example; as GP alluded to, a driver's window to recognise and start responding to a developing problem is often mentioned in fractions of a second or a few whole seconds at best, because they can come out of practically nowhere. On the other hand, my impression of warning systems like TCAS and EGPWS is that the pilot has several seconds or more to start responding to the initial warning and still safely execute an avoidance/escape manoeuvre.
- tgtaptarget 2y agoQuite a career... Almost sounds fake
- dzink 2y agoThey never mention if there was another person in his 2 person plane. What a life!
- kragen 2y agothis graph took another step down today https://xkcd.com/893/ https://xkcd.com/893/ has anyone made an updated version?
- hashmash 2y agoWilliam Anders never walked on another world.
- kragen 2y agoyou're right; thank you for the correction
- DennisP 2y agoI really like the popup text on that: "The universe is probably littered with the one-planet graves of cultures which made the sensible economic decision that there's no good reason to go into space--each discovered, studied, and remembered by the ones who made the irrational decision."
- outcoldman 2y agoBlue skies. He died by doing what he loved. No better way to go.
- hsyehbeidhh 2y ago[dead]
- buzzergfxkjkl 2y agoRIP legend.
- Sparkyte 2y agoLegend he was.
- jandrewrogers 2y agoAn absolute legend going out like a total badass. I know people will disagree but there is much to be said for living your life on your own terms and accepting the potential consequences without reservation. He was clearly one of those guys. He probably did not expect to die that day, but he knew he would die some day and he wasn’t going to nerf his life to buy a few more years.
- adastra22 2y agoBut would you "net your life" to buy a billion years?
- krisoft 2y agoMy grandad at a ripe old age had a stroke and the doctors told him and the family that he won’t ever be able to walk. So he got a wheelchair and was eventually sent home to recuperate. A few days later my mom visited him and found him wheeling around in the wineyard. It seemed that my grandad (her dad), ever the engineer, pimped his ride to make it more off-road worthy and was in the process of figuring out how he can continue with yard maintenance in his new state. My mum was very angry with him. From her perspective her dad was “risking his life” doing what he was doing. I tried to gently point out that while she is right that staying in bed would be safer for him, wouldn’t he be one step closer to the grave if he were to give up on his favourite activities?
- spoonfeeder006 2y agoThis is a Baha'i Prayer I like to say for people who pass on to the next life Its hard to describe how I feel about it, its just so deep and profound... Consciousness itself, as apart from the behavior and computation that goes on in the brain, is a mystery of neuroscience. So maybe somehow it persists after we die? NDEs kinda shed light on that RIP up in the stars man https://www.bahaiprayers.io/prayer?id=204020 https://www.bahaiprayers.io/prayer?id=204020
- __m 2y agoJust because we can’t explain it yet doesn’t mean there is some voodoo involved
- spoonfeeder006 2y agoOne does beg the question of where awareness comes from. I can't see that any particular physical arrangement could explain it. I mean, maybe a fundamental particle or fundamentally different form of matter could be found to be what plays the role in producing consciousness, but then what would cause that matter to have or produce awareness? Perhaps that matter has behavior we can measure, but how would it produce conscious awareness? Would it be possible to understand? As far as I can see all you can explain is that its there, but can't understand why, which suggests its transcendent over what we can see and measure And what we can see in terms of the physical world is not proof that there isn't more to existence Take the plant that gains sustenance from the sun and the earth, yet the fact that it has no faculties of perception that allows it to understand those processes is not proof that they don't exist So perhaps we are like plants in a greater universe? Again, NDE's (near death experiences) are also suggestive of this And also looking at how Baha'i taught equality of women / men, and the need for independent investigation of truth, and dedicating one's self to helping the poor etc... coming from 19th century Persia that was pretty barbaric and fanatical where women couldn't even show their faces in public much less get educated, and where plundering each other and favoritism was literally the primary engine for their economy... kinda shows that perhaps there is insight in the original Baha'i teachers
- 2y ago
- satisfice 2y agoI once met Bill Anders on Orcas Island. Years ago I was making a video about describing a stone that I found on an Orcas beach, and I was consulting with geologists and biologists. I met at a local cafe with a marine biologist to get her opinion about barnacles on the stone. As we were talking, a man at the next table mentioned that he thought the stone was possibly volcanic. He also said he had a petrologist friend I should talk to. Nice coincidence. The guy said his name was something-something... I'm not good with names and pretty much forget them instantly. Later, I'm with the biologist on the beach, looking at barnacles when a P-51 Mustang comes screaming overhead on a low pass over the island. I lived on Orcas and I had never seen that before. "Oh, that's Bill Anders," said the biologist. "Remember, you met him at the Orcas Hotel cafe. He was on Apollo 8." That made a lot of sense. The Apollo astronauts were trained field geologists! I suspect his crash was a suicide. I come from a flying family and this is how pilots commonly fantasize about dying on their own terms.
- iamtheworstdev 2y ago> I suspect his crash was a suicide. I wouldn't count on that. Most of us wouldn't do that to the aviation world. Decreases plane availability, especially for something like a T-34 Mentor, increases insurance rates, increases FAA stance on already asinine policies, etc. occams razor - he misjudged his aerobatics.
- gcheong 2y agoUnless you leave a note or tell someone, could the FAA determine it was intentional? Given the type of aircraft could a pilot plausibly commit suicide in a way that made it look like pilot error?
- sokoloff 2y agoAbsolutely could be done undetectably/unprovably. There is often no conclusive root cause for a pilot error event. If that “error” was intentional, it would be very hard to prove.
- 2y ago
- barrenko 2y agoThis is a minor nitpick, as English is not my native language, but wouldn't it make sense to say "died in" more so than "was killed in"? The guy was not a passive observer by any means and should be paid respect.
- bradleykingz 2y ago[dead]
- rafram 2y agoNo, “was killed in” is just as standard when you’re talking about things like plane crashes.
- cbxyp 2y agoGod blessed him to be able to die doing what he loved at the ripe old age of 91. Prayers for his family or foundation to be able to keep the flying heritage museum well maintained in his honor.
- bradleykingz 2y ago[dead]
- Kalanos 2y agoI keep telling my friend not to fly small planes, but he is hooked.
- xoxxala 2y agoSpeaking about his famous Earthrise photograph, Anders said: "We came all this way to explore the Moon, and the most important thing that we discovered was the Earth."
- narrator 2y agoI avoid getting in small planes since the statistics say they are as dangerous as riding motorcycles.
- sokoloff 2y agoThat’s the overall stats, which is fair, but I find a significant counterbalance that the pilot is much more in control of the risk in aviation. If you die in an airplane, it’s probably a pilot issue. If you die on a bike, it could easily be someone else’s fault. Don’t run out of gas and don’t tangle with weather beyond the ability of the airplane and pilot, and you cut out around 60% of the risk.
- marssaxman 2y agoIf that is true, small planes must be considerably less dangerous than I had imagined.
- Simon_ORourke 2y agoThat photograph is a mere footnote to the sheer audacity of Apollo 8 - first crewed flight of the Saturn V. - first crewed spacecraft to leave Earth's orbit. - first crewed spacecraft to enter Lunar orbit. - first humans to see the far side of the moon. - most watched (at the time) live TV broadcast. Those guys had balls of steel, and I'll be pouring one out on the stoop for Bill Anders and the crew later today in memory.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sillysaurusx 2y agoLate to the thread, but there’s footage of the actual crash. https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRKbRVxB/ https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRKbRVxB/ Some people were asking about the details, so maybe this will show what went wrong.
- plutospassage 2y agoWhat a life: 1st man to the moon, Photographer of one of the most influential photographs in the world, Air Force General, Leader of National Space Council, and CEO of General Dynamics (Fortune 100 Company) Rest in peace: https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8K9qAIy770/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8K9qAIy770/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWF...