5 ms·

If you had to buy a clothes washer recently, top load is better than side load, agitator is better than no agitator, analog buttons or dial is a plus, et al. Ol

If you had to buy a clothes washer recently, top load is better than side load, agitator is better than no agitator, analog buttons or dial is a plus, et al. Old is better than new. The rude design choices have compounded. Nobody needs an app to know what cycle their washer is at. Anyone using a washer, listens for it. When your display goes out, all the functionality is gone. It's just mind boggling. The 2024 Hyundai Tuscon with 10 year warranty (on top of the manufacturer's 2 year warranty) means this will probably be our last car. It has all the best features of 2019 and has very few rude problems - eg turning off the engine and opening the driver door locks the rear doors. That's not helpful.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Anyone using a washer, listens for it I hate laundry. I still have no idea how to do it; I referred to detergent as laundry sauce a few years ago after forgetting the word. (Thank you, subconscious of mine.) The new machines with screens are a nuisance. Apparently to you, somebody competent. But also to those of us for whom listening to one’s washing machine sounds like advice from a laundry Lorax.
- candiddevmike 2y ago
  Have you considered spending some time to understand how these machines work? I promise you the operational part in the manual that came with them is probably 10 pages long, and designed to instruct folks with an eighth grade reading level how to do laundry.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Have you considered spending some time to understand how these machines work? Yes, and I really don’t care to. I get some joy out of cooking, small mechanical jobs and even doing dishes. I do not from laundry. My point isn’t that people should love or hate laundry. It’s that the modern technology seems to add no value to either the experts nor amateurs. I vastly prefer simple dials and buttons to the ISS docking procedures some appliances demand for socks.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    > is probably 10 pages long I’ve seen one recently. It’s about 60-200 pages long book (multiple languages) worth of legalese. Same with most appliances and child car seats (which is especially cruel when you had a baby, no sleep for days and try to install one).
- dexwiz 2y ago
  Laundry is not hard. Go watch a YouTube video. When it doubt, sort by color and size, wash on cold, hang dry. Heat can keep things white or dry things faster, but has higher potential to damage clothes. All mass produced clothes of any value have a care tag that at least has symbols, if not outright written Instructions. EDIT: Reading your bio makes me think of someone who has probably never had to do their own laundry.
  - crazygringo 2y ago
    I'm an expert at doing my laundry but boy it is hard. Remembering which clothes I need to wash cold and hang-dry to prevent shrinkage vs. which can be washed warm and dried in the dryer. Enough detergent that it cleans effectively but not too much that it leaves an irritating layer on your clothes -- obviously the detergent companies are trying to fool you into using too much so that you buy more. Learning to use the "+1 rinse cycle" button to fully get rid of the detergent residue. Learning not to use fabric softener or dryer sheets. Learning that fragrance-free detergent is an option so your clothes don't smell like a horrid cheap air freshener. Learning how to use bleach and which kind (there are many formulations!) and in which part of the cycle and how much to keep your whites, well, actually white. But not so much it unnecessarily damages them. Or using a laundry loop to ensure you identify all your white cotton t-shirts that you want to wash and bleach together with your white socks washcloths etc., but then separate so you hang-dry the tees so they don't shrink, without accidentally leaving any in the dryer with your socks etc. and ruining them. Learning that you should unbutton your shirts so the buttons don't get pulled off, but zip up all zippers so the teeth don't produce wear and tear catching on other garments. Learning to turn certain pants and other items inside out when washing and drying to lengthen their life, learning to throw in a couple of tennis balls when drying something bulky, and so forth. Or learning to check my dryer every 15 minutes in case my duvet cover has decided to twist itself into a kind of rope, where it turns into this weird boa constrictor that's eaten 3 of my pillowcases that will never every dry until I untwist it and remove them. It's seriously actually kind of shockingly complicated.
    - DavidPiper 2y ago
      It's also extremely forgiving though. You can ignore everything and just throw things in a cold wash with a little bit of detergent and then hang them out to dry. Things will probably be fine. Separating whites (if your clothes are particularly prone to running colour) is a mistake you only make once.
- JadeNB 2y ago
  > The new machines with screens are terrible. Apparently to you. But also to those of us who have no idea what you’re talking about with this Lorax for the laundry talk. I think it's just a simple statement that, for example, an app that proudly offers to tell you when your drying is done is really offering no service, since you can just hear from the fact that the dryer's not running that it's done—not that we're performing some delicate sound-based diagnosis. (That's, of course, presumably referring to people with in-unit dryers; I can imagine this being a useful service if one were using shared units, say in a common room in an apartment complex, or in a laundromat. But that's assuming that the app is intended actually to do its advertised job rather than to provide a vector for manufacturers to shoehorn in some other unwanted behavior, which is an assumption decidedly in need of supporting evidence.)
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > an app that proudly offers to tell you when your drying is done This could be useful. This also doesn’t require an app.
- xhevahir 2y ago
  While I greatly appreciate the coinage "laundry sauce" I think the great majority of people know how to do this stuff and it's not hard to find out how.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    I think it has to do with learning styles and mental database structures. I design complex medical implants, can build a car from scratch, and even understand some of the polymer chemistry of fabrics, but still struggle with laundry despite doing it for 20 years. I have settled into the heuristic of warm wash & repeat until clean + dryers destroy anything but socks.
- amelius 2y ago
  Doing laundry is of about the same complexity as boiling an egg.
  - drewcoo 2y ago
    Is that a standard egg or delicate? Is it hand wash? Maybe dry clean only?
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > about the same complexity as boiling an egg I’m more than happy to spend an afternoon figuring out the times and temperatures that get me various stages of runny and jammy at my altitude, on my range, in a way I couldn’t be bothered to for the benefit of having clothes again.
    - amelius 2y ago
      I have a very intelligent friend who has the same attitude towards personal finances and refuses any help. It is very sad but there's apparently nothing I can do about it.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > friend who has the same attitude towards personal finances and refuses any help Funny, me too. Despite working in finance. (It’s quite common.) I outsource that task, too, in part because I don’t want to be day trading, in part because index funds are near bulletproof nowadays and in part to hide the money from myself. Would note that there is a difference between hating a task and not doing it, and hating a task and managing it.
  - klondike_klive 2y ago
    If I want a boiled egg, chances are I want it soft-boiled (runny yolk but cooked white) which is the custom here in the UK. (As children we are given a softboiled egg in an egg-cup along with rectangles of toast called "soldiers" to dip in the yolk. I guess it's an Edwardian thing, redolent of Nannies and Nurseries.) In all my 50 years I still cannot reliably produce a softboiled egg, regardless of the method. Do I bring the water to the boil with the eggs already in the pan, then count from when it reaches the boil? How do I judge a "rolling boil"? Or do I wait for the water to boil then put the eggs in, risking cracking? How do I adjust the timing if I want to boil multiple eggs? I can hardboil them but sometimes overcook them and get that sulphurous green yolk edge, or I forget to set an alarm and underboil them leading to an unpleasant surprise later of a partially-cooked egg white spilling out of my inedible egg. For fried eggs in my stainless steel pan (I don't have any non-stick pans) unless I pre-heat for ~20mins, the egg sticks and I often end up having to chisel it out with the spatula and breaking the yolk which depending on my morning mood can be a real downer. Added to which the underside is usually cooked way before the top, and the egg white in the thickest part is still clear and snotty, so I will try to flip the egg, doubling my chances of breaking the yolk and killing my morning. Scrambled eggs are nice but easy to overcook to a dry pebbly consistency, and unfailingly create a quarter-inch layer of crusted egg in the pan which goes to soak in the sink and return later in the day as a jellyish monstrosity to cling to my hand or be clawed dripping out of the plughole catcher. I love a filled omelette, but again it's a crapshoot - too hot a pan and the egg goes hard and rubbery on the outside, too cold and the folding is difficult, especially with solid items in the filling. My point is, boiling eggs is undeserving of its status as a byword for simplicity. It's getting to the stage (for me) where it's an object lesson in how much I can fuck up a seemingly simple thing.
- shrimp_emoji 2y ago
  This is like that chess grandmaster who didn't know how to operate an oven. I hope you're good at chess.
- punishedmagnus 2y ago
  What the hell are you talking about about? It's not complicated you dork, you put in clothes, select a wash size, pick the right temp (hot for whites, med for lights, cold for darks/special care) put in soap (and oxyclean if you're feeling fancy) and push the button. It's takes like 45 minutes and you throw the shit into the dryer. The hardest part is folding the goddamn fitted sheets and matching up the socks at the end. If this is too complicated for you I recommend taking a technology fast for a week. Freaking bugmen.
sokoloff 2y ago
I'm on team front-loader for sure. When I got my first one (about 30 years ago), I immediately noticed a significant reduction in dryer lint with no other changes. I attributed that to the washer doing less damage to the clothes and did later get a strong sense that my clothes were lasting correspondingly longer. (I couldn't detect any change in cleaning power.) Completely agree that I don't need any WiFi connectivity on it.
drewcoo 2y ago
> Anyone using a washer, listens for it. Currently, I have to set a timer on my phone to go check the washer and dryer because my laundry is in the basement and I'm probably on the 2nd floor or outside. I would love it if these things would run on my network with simple, published APIs exposed to tell me status so that I could know that I could have automated alerting and know that they wouldn't fail in the future when their manufacturer drops support.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- m463 2y ago
  I wish everything was like that. but manufacturers want data, they want a post sales "relationship". I think only legislation can fix this. or maybe some elon musk type who makes more open cars, appliances, etc. with trust, trade is unfettered. see how people talk about brother laser printers that are trustworthy.
- invalidator 2y ago
  You can! Get an energy-monitoring smart plug[1]. Set it up on Home Assistant[2] or another smart-stuff system. Then create an Automation which sends an alert when it drops below 25 watts for 3 minutes. It's all-local, and requires no integration with the washer. 220V dryers may be a little trickier, but still easy enough if you're comfortable with basic electrical stuff. You can put a sensor on an indicator light, or put a current clamp on one of the wires. Usually you only care when the washer is done though, so you can move your clothes over. [1] I use https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BPY5D1KC https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BPY5D1KC for Zigbee, but there are WiFi/Z-wave/other options. [2] https://www.home-assistant.io/ https://www.home-assistant.io/
  - op00to 2y ago
    This is exactly what I did. It sends a text when it’s done. I forget some times even with the text, so I added repetitive alerts. That got annoying, so I added a door sensor to the washing machine to silence repetitive alerts if you open the door after a cycle is done. Total cost was negligible. A cheap $20 smart plug that I never use except for monitoring and $10 for the door sensor.
johnea 2y ago
I agree that older is better, especially in avoiding the data harvestng of newer cars (and everything else) However, I would disagree that top load washers are better than front load. Front load uses less water and causes less wear of garmets. I bought the last several I've owned used, because odler is better (and cheaper)...
Liquix 2y ago
IMHO it doesn't matter which kinds of bugs bubble up to daily use. I have no interest in purchasing something at full price when it's stuffed with buggy software that's harvesting my family's data for profit [0]. a bug in a routine to record our private, intimate conversations could put someone's life in danger, and for what? it's revolting enough to put in the work finding and maintaining 20 year old cars. it'd be one thing if they were like smart TVs - pay $300 for one with a mile long privacy policy or pay $600 for a solid commercial display. but paying $20k+ and having no other option? abso fucking lutely not [0] https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/cars/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categor...
amarant 2y ago
Why would a top loaded washing machine be better? They use more water than frontloaders, and in my experience they don't clean any better.. Do they cause less wear on your clothes or something?
- sokoloff 2y ago
  The bearings on a front-loader live a hard life and eventually fail, often as a result of the seal failing. I will give a typical top-loader a longer projected life without significant mechanical maintenance. (I’ve changed two sets of bearings on my own front loaders and one for my in-laws. It’s doable DIY but takes several hours, making it expensive to have a tech come do it.)
  - jaredhallen 2y ago
    I did bearings on a front loader once as well. Doable, but not particularly fun, that's for sure.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Anyone using a washer, listens for it I hate laundry. I still have no idea how to do it; I referred to detergent as laundry sauce a few years ago after forgetting the word. (Thank you, subconscious of mine.) The new machines with screens are a nuisance. Apparently to you, somebody competent. But also to those of us for whom listening to one’s washing machine sounds like advice from a laundry Lorax.

candiddevmike 2y ago
Have you considered spending some time to understand how these machines work? I promise you the operational part in the manual that came with them is probably 10 pages long, and designed to instruct folks with an eighth grade reading level how to do laundry.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Have you considered spending some time to understand how these machines work? Yes, and I really don’t care to. I get some joy out of cooking, small mechanical jobs and even doing dishes. I do not from laundry. My point isn’t that people should love or hate laundry. It’s that the modern technology seems to add no value to either the experts nor amateurs. I vastly prefer simple dials and buttons to the ISS docking procedures some appliances demand for socks.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  > is probably 10 pages long I’ve seen one recently. It’s about 60-200 pages long book (multiple languages) worth of legalese. Same with most appliances and child car seats (which is especially cruel when you had a baby, no sleep for days and try to install one).
dexwiz 2y ago
Laundry is not hard. Go watch a YouTube video. When it doubt, sort by color and size, wash on cold, hang dry. Heat can keep things white or dry things faster, but has higher potential to damage clothes. All mass produced clothes of any value have a care tag that at least has symbols, if not outright written Instructions. EDIT: Reading your bio makes me think of someone who has probably never had to do their own laundry.
- crazygringo 2y ago
  I'm an expert at doing my laundry but boy it is hard. Remembering which clothes I need to wash cold and hang-dry to prevent shrinkage vs. which can be washed warm and dried in the dryer. Enough detergent that it cleans effectively but not too much that it leaves an irritating layer on your clothes -- obviously the detergent companies are trying to fool you into using too much so that you buy more. Learning to use the "+1 rinse cycle" button to fully get rid of the detergent residue. Learning not to use fabric softener or dryer sheets. Learning that fragrance-free detergent is an option so your clothes don't smell like a horrid cheap air freshener. Learning how to use bleach and which kind (there are many formulations!) and in which part of the cycle and how much to keep your whites, well, actually white. But not so much it unnecessarily damages them. Or using a laundry loop to ensure you identify all your white cotton t-shirts that you want to wash and bleach together with your white socks washcloths etc., but then separate so you hang-dry the tees so they don't shrink, without accidentally leaving any in the dryer with your socks etc. and ruining them. Learning that you should unbutton your shirts so the buttons don't get pulled off, but zip up all zippers so the teeth don't produce wear and tear catching on other garments. Learning to turn certain pants and other items inside out when washing and drying to lengthen their life, learning to throw in a couple of tennis balls when drying something bulky, and so forth. Or learning to check my dryer every 15 minutes in case my duvet cover has decided to twist itself into a kind of rope, where it turns into this weird boa constrictor that's eaten 3 of my pillowcases that will never every dry until I untwist it and remove them. It's seriously actually kind of shockingly complicated.
  - DavidPiper 2y ago
    It's also extremely forgiving though. You can ignore everything and just throw things in a cold wash with a little bit of detergent and then hang them out to dry. Things will probably be fine. Separating whites (if your clothes are particularly prone to running colour) is a mistake you only make once.
JadeNB 2y ago
> The new machines with screens are terrible. Apparently to you. But also to those of us who have no idea what you’re talking about with this Lorax for the laundry talk. I think it's just a simple statement that, for example, an app that proudly offers to tell you when your drying is done is really offering no service, since you can just hear from the fact that the dryer's not running that it's done—not that we're performing some delicate sound-based diagnosis. (That's, of course, presumably referring to people with in-unit dryers; I can imagine this being a useful service if one were using shared units, say in a common room in an apartment complex, or in a laundromat. But that's assuming that the app is intended actually to do its advertised job rather than to provide a vector for manufacturers to shoehorn in some other unwanted behavior, which is an assumption decidedly in need of supporting evidence.)
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > an app that proudly offers to tell you when your drying is done This could be useful. This also doesn’t require an app.
xhevahir 2y ago
While I greatly appreciate the coinage "laundry sauce" I think the great majority of people know how to do this stuff and it's not hard to find out how.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  I think it has to do with learning styles and mental database structures. I design complex medical implants, can build a car from scratch, and even understand some of the polymer chemistry of fabrics, but still struggle with laundry despite doing it for 20 years. I have settled into the heuristic of warm wash & repeat until clean + dryers destroy anything but socks.
amelius 2y ago
Doing laundry is of about the same complexity as boiling an egg.
- drewcoo 2y ago
  Is that a standard egg or delicate? Is it hand wash? Maybe dry clean only?
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > about the same complexity as boiling an egg I’m more than happy to spend an afternoon figuring out the times and temperatures that get me various stages of runny and jammy at my altitude, on my range, in a way I couldn’t be bothered to for the benefit of having clothes again.
  - amelius 2y ago
    I have a very intelligent friend who has the same attitude towards personal finances and refuses any help. It is very sad but there's apparently nothing I can do about it.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > friend who has the same attitude towards personal finances and refuses any help Funny, me too. Despite working in finance. (It’s quite common.) I outsource that task, too, in part because I don’t want to be day trading, in part because index funds are near bulletproof nowadays and in part to hide the money from myself. Would note that there is a difference between hating a task and not doing it, and hating a task and managing it.
- klondike_klive 2y ago
  If I want a boiled egg, chances are I want it soft-boiled (runny yolk but cooked white) which is the custom here in the UK. (As children we are given a softboiled egg in an egg-cup along with rectangles of toast called "soldiers" to dip in the yolk. I guess it's an Edwardian thing, redolent of Nannies and Nurseries.) In all my 50 years I still cannot reliably produce a softboiled egg, regardless of the method. Do I bring the water to the boil with the eggs already in the pan, then count from when it reaches the boil? How do I judge a "rolling boil"? Or do I wait for the water to boil then put the eggs in, risking cracking? How do I adjust the timing if I want to boil multiple eggs? I can hardboil them but sometimes overcook them and get that sulphurous green yolk edge, or I forget to set an alarm and underboil them leading to an unpleasant surprise later of a partially-cooked egg white spilling out of my inedible egg. For fried eggs in my stainless steel pan (I don't have any non-stick pans) unless I pre-heat for ~20mins, the egg sticks and I often end up having to chisel it out with the spatula and breaking the yolk which depending on my morning mood can be a real downer. Added to which the underside is usually cooked way before the top, and the egg white in the thickest part is still clear and snotty, so I will try to flip the egg, doubling my chances of breaking the yolk and killing my morning. Scrambled eggs are nice but easy to overcook to a dry pebbly consistency, and unfailingly create a quarter-inch layer of crusted egg in the pan which goes to soak in the sink and return later in the day as a jellyish monstrosity to cling to my hand or be clawed dripping out of the plughole catcher. I love a filled omelette, but again it's a crapshoot - too hot a pan and the egg goes hard and rubbery on the outside, too cold and the folding is difficult, especially with solid items in the filling. My point is, boiling eggs is undeserving of its status as a byword for simplicity. It's getting to the stage (for me) where it's an object lesson in how much I can fuck up a seemingly simple thing.
shrimp_emoji 2y ago
This is like that chess grandmaster who didn't know how to operate an oven. I hope you're good at chess.
punishedmagnus 2y ago
What the hell are you talking about about? It's not complicated you dork, you put in clothes, select a wash size, pick the right temp (hot for whites, med for lights, cold for darks/special care) put in soap (and oxyclean if you're feeling fancy) and push the button. It's takes like 45 minutes and you throw the shit into the dryer. The hardest part is folding the goddamn fitted sheets and matching up the socks at the end. If this is too complicated for you I recommend taking a technology fast for a week. Freaking bugmen.

sokoloff 2y ago

I'm on team front-loader for sure. When I got my first one (about 30 years ago), I immediately noticed a significant reduction in dryer lint with no other changes. I attributed that to the washer doing less damage to the clothes and did later get a strong sense that my clothes were lasting correspondingly longer. (I couldn't detect any change in cleaning power.) Completely agree that I don't need any WiFi connectivity on it.

drewcoo 2y ago

> Anyone using a washer, listens for it. Currently, I have to set a timer on my phone to go check the washer and dryer because my laundry is in the basement and I'm probably on the 2nd floor or outside. I would love it if these things would run on my network with simple, published APIs exposed to tell me status so that I could know that I could have automated alerting and know that they wouldn't fail in the future when their manufacturer drops support.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
m463 2y ago
I wish everything was like that. but manufacturers want data, they want a post sales "relationship". I think only legislation can fix this. or maybe some elon musk type who makes more open cars, appliances, etc. with trust, trade is unfettered. see how people talk about brother laser printers that are trustworthy.
invalidator 2y ago
You can! Get an energy-monitoring smart plug[1]. Set it up on Home Assistant[2] or another smart-stuff system. Then create an Automation which sends an alert when it drops below 25 watts for 3 minutes. It's all-local, and requires no integration with the washer. 220V dryers may be a little trickier, but still easy enough if you're comfortable with basic electrical stuff. You can put a sensor on an indicator light, or put a current clamp on one of the wires. Usually you only care when the washer is done though, so you can move your clothes over. [1] I use https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BPY5D1KC https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BPY5D1KC for Zigbee, but there are WiFi/Z-wave/other options. [2] https://www.home-assistant.io/ https://www.home-assistant.io/
- op00to 2y ago
  This is exactly what I did. It sends a text when it’s done. I forget some times even with the text, so I added repetitive alerts. That got annoying, so I added a door sensor to the washing machine to silence repetitive alerts if you open the door after a cycle is done. Total cost was negligible. A cheap $20 smart plug that I never use except for monitoring and $10 for the door sensor.

johnea 2y ago

I agree that older is better, especially in avoiding the data harvestng of newer cars (and everything else) However, I would disagree that top load washers are better than front load. Front load uses less water and causes less wear of garmets. I bought the last several I've owned used, because odler is better (and cheaper)...

Liquix 2y ago

IMHO it doesn't matter which kinds of bugs bubble up to daily use. I have no interest in purchasing something at full price when it's stuffed with buggy software that's harvesting my family's data for profit [0]. a bug in a routine to record our private, intimate conversations could put someone's life in danger, and for what? it's revolting enough to put in the work finding and maintaining 20 year old cars. it'd be one thing if they were like smart TVs - pay $300 for one with a mile long privacy policy or pay $600 for a solid commercial display. but paying $20k+ and having no other option? abso fucking lutely not [0] https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categories/cars/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/categor...

amarant 2y ago

Why would a top loaded washing machine be better? They use more water than frontloaders, and in my experience they don't clean any better.. Do they cause less wear on your clothes or something?

sokoloff 2y ago
The bearings on a front-loader live a hard life and eventually fail, often as a result of the seal failing. I will give a typical top-loader a longer projected life without significant mechanical maintenance. (I’ve changed two sets of bearings on my own front loaders and one for my in-laws. It’s doable DIY but takes several hours, making it expensive to have a tech come do it.)
- jaredhallen 2y ago
  I did bearings on a front loader once as well. Doable, but not particularly fun, that's for sure.