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Agreed; Apple’s restrictions on the iPad should be illegal, IMO. It’s ridiculous how crippled they are, and all in the name of making sure people feel compelle

Agreed; Apple’s restrictions on the iPad should be illegal, IMO. It’s ridiculous how crippled they are, and all in the name of making sure people feel compelled to also buy a laptop.

theshrike79 2y ago
I agree, but we should also make restrictions on smart TVs and gaming consoles illegal too. Both the Xbox and PS5 are 100% commodity hardware, not being able to run our own software on it is a really weird limitation. One that people even on HN have accepted while simultaneously ragging on Apple's "walled garden".
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Actually that is not the case with XBox, you can have your own applications there without rooting it. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/xbox-apps/devkit-activation https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/xbox-apps/devk...
  - codetrotter 2y ago
    But can you use the Xbox itself to locally develop and run your own software? Or do you still need to use another computer or an online service via web browser?
  - ach9l 2y ago
    And you can say "Actually that is not the case with iPad, you can have your own applications there without rooting it." have you heard of Xcode? still... you are missing the point, you can't even use an iPad to properly code for iPad
  - BaculumMeumEst 2y ago
    That is the exactly the same weak, crippled, sandboxed bullshit that Apple gives you for your iPad. OP wants to run an OS on these devices, not that.
- rezonant 2y ago
  If you just changed "but" to "and" you'd get your point across with less a sense of whataboutism. Yes, all platforms should be free. Personally it feels like devices that are marketed as general purpose have a higher expectation that people can use them for general purposes, but it is definitely true that any device you purchase should allow you to run whatever software you want on it.
- rfoo 2y ago
  Yeah, that's why I refuse to buy PS5, iPhone and iPad. I have a Switch though, thanks to Nintendo's incompetency on locking it down.
- zakki 2y ago
  Are you going to bring your Smart TV and PS5 for VSCoding anywhere and anytime?
  - codetrotter 2y ago
    There are many people who can’t afford to buy both a computer and a PS5 and some of them choose to buy PS5. Would be nice to let those people use the PS5 hardware for what it is really capable of, including being able to run a desktop OS on it.
    - vundercind 2y ago
      The number of people who can so barely afford a PS5 that they can’t also afford a computer (these are a hell of a lot cheaper than a PS5), but are willing to screw with their PS5 in ways likely to mess it up in one way or another (if only making gaming impossible without further tinkering) is approximately zero.
- steve1977 2y ago
  But you know these restrictions when you buy the device. Same with the Apple ecosystem. So why make it illegal?
  - franga2000 2y ago
    Because it's an artificial limitation to make the company more money, at the expense of customer experience and the environment (yes, locked-down hardware is also a sustainability issue!). Ideally, companies would exist to serve the public and so such selfish anti-consumer behaviour would be illegal. Unfortunately, they don't and current law seems to affirm that.
    - mosselman 2y ago
      I’d also like to be able to run anything on an iPad. But I know I can’t so I don’t buy it. I find this notion that companies should do what we want ridiculous. You know the features and capabilities upfront or you can at least and then you can decide to buy or not.
      - franga2000 2y ago
        There are many problems with the "just don't buy it" argument. Mainly, that often times, the alternatives have huge unrelated down-sides. Apple makes the best tablet hardware by a large margin, but it's totally locked down. If I want a good tablet, I have bo real alternatives.
        scarface_74 2y ago
        So even though as a user you have alternatives, you don’t want to buy one of those alternatives so Apple should make exactly what you personally want?
        franga2000 2y ago
        No, I'm saying that Apple is so far ahead of the competition and this market is so hard to enter, that they essentially have a monopoly in the category "tablet computer that isn't shit". And no, it's not that they should make what I want, it's that they should not prevent me from using their device in a way that I want.
arijun 2y ago
My fear is that such a regulation would end up being a net negative for the consumer. Apple would protect MacBook sales in other ways, e.g. crippling iPad hardware. Genuine question: if it was a net negative, would that still be worth it in your eyes?
unsupp0rted 2y ago
Companies should be able to make whatever device they want. I use iPhone/iPad when I want to be fairly confident that nobody's actively screenshotting my every move.
- DaSHacka 2y ago
  Being able to install any OS onto your hardware would let you avoid running an OS that screenshots your every move in the first place
  - unsupp0rted 2y ago
    The more doors you open intentionally, the more doors become open unintentionally. If I wanted a device that allows installation of any OS, I would buy one. Companies like “Honor” are already doing a good job of cloning Apple’s UX. Go right ahead… nobody’s stopping manufacturers from making fully hackable phones.
can16358p 2y ago
I get your point, especially given the enormous power of the hardware and capabilities, but there is no surprise here: their hardware, their software, and you know what you are buying (it's not like it was open then it was remotely locked down) so everyone agreed at the time of purchase. What part of this can be made illegal?
- nicoburns 2y ago
  Anything can be made illegal. I agree it's tricky to create a general rule here. My suggestion would be to require bootloaders to be unlocked such that custom operating systems can be installed on it (and yes this could apply to smart TVs, games consoles, etc too). That wouldn't get it us macOS, but it would get us Linux and incentivise Apple to provide macOS too.
scarface_74 2y ago
So should it also be illegal for game consoles not to run a general purpose OS? The Apple displays also run a version of iOS, should it also be illegal for them not to run full versions of iOS? I have some sympathy for the argument about side loading, the inability to have alternate app stores etc and the things that the EU is addressing haphardly. But saying the government should mandate that Apple must support MacOS on iPads is a bridge too far.

Agreed; Apple’s restrictions on the iPad should be illegal, IMO. It’s ridiculous how crippled they are, and all in the name of making sure people feel compelled to also buy a laptop.

theshrike79 2y ago

I agree, but we should also make restrictions on smart TVs and gaming consoles illegal too. Both the Xbox and PS5 are 100% commodity hardware, not being able to run our own software on it is a really weird limitation. One that people even on HN have accepted while simultaneously ragging on Apple's "walled garden".

pjmlp 2y ago
Actually that is not the case with XBox, you can have your own applications there without rooting it. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/xbox-apps/devkit-activation https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/xbox-apps/devk...
- codetrotter 2y ago
  But can you use the Xbox itself to locally develop and run your own software? Or do you still need to use another computer or an online service via web browser?
- ach9l 2y ago
  And you can say "Actually that is not the case with iPad, you can have your own applications there without rooting it." have you heard of Xcode? still... you are missing the point, you can't even use an iPad to properly code for iPad
- BaculumMeumEst 2y ago
  That is the exactly the same weak, crippled, sandboxed bullshit that Apple gives you for your iPad. OP wants to run an OS on these devices, not that.
rezonant 2y ago
If you just changed "but" to "and" you'd get your point across with less a sense of whataboutism. Yes, all platforms should be free. Personally it feels like devices that are marketed as general purpose have a higher expectation that people can use them for general purposes, but it is definitely true that any device you purchase should allow you to run whatever software you want on it.
rfoo 2y ago
Yeah, that's why I refuse to buy PS5, iPhone and iPad. I have a Switch though, thanks to Nintendo's incompetency on locking it down.
zakki 2y ago
Are you going to bring your Smart TV and PS5 for VSCoding anywhere and anytime?
- codetrotter 2y ago
  There are many people who can’t afford to buy both a computer and a PS5 and some of them choose to buy PS5. Would be nice to let those people use the PS5 hardware for what it is really capable of, including being able to run a desktop OS on it.
  - vundercind 2y ago
    The number of people who can so barely afford a PS5 that they can’t also afford a computer (these are a hell of a lot cheaper than a PS5), but are willing to screw with their PS5 in ways likely to mess it up in one way or another (if only making gaming impossible without further tinkering) is approximately zero.
steve1977 2y ago
But you know these restrictions when you buy the device. Same with the Apple ecosystem. So why make it illegal?
- franga2000 2y ago
  Because it's an artificial limitation to make the company more money, at the expense of customer experience and the environment (yes, locked-down hardware is also a sustainability issue!). Ideally, companies would exist to serve the public and so such selfish anti-consumer behaviour would be illegal. Unfortunately, they don't and current law seems to affirm that.
  - mosselman 2y ago
    I’d also like to be able to run anything on an iPad. But I know I can’t so I don’t buy it. I find this notion that companies should do what we want ridiculous. You know the features and capabilities upfront or you can at least and then you can decide to buy or not.
    - franga2000 2y ago
      There are many problems with the "just don't buy it" argument. Mainly, that often times, the alternatives have huge unrelated down-sides. Apple makes the best tablet hardware by a large margin, but it's totally locked down. If I want a good tablet, I have bo real alternatives.
      - scarface_74 2y ago
        So even though as a user you have alternatives, you don’t want to buy one of those alternatives so Apple should make exactly what you personally want?
        franga2000 2y ago
        No, I'm saying that Apple is so far ahead of the competition and this market is so hard to enter, that they essentially have a monopoly in the category "tablet computer that isn't shit". And no, it's not that they should make what I want, it's that they should not prevent me from using their device in a way that I want.

arijun 2y ago

My fear is that such a regulation would end up being a net negative for the consumer. Apple would protect MacBook sales in other ways, e.g. crippling iPad hardware. Genuine question: if it was a net negative, would that still be worth it in your eyes?

unsupp0rted 2y ago

Companies should be able to make whatever device they want. I use iPhone/iPad when I want to be fairly confident that nobody's actively screenshotting my every move.

DaSHacka 2y ago
Being able to install any OS onto your hardware would let you avoid running an OS that screenshots your every move in the first place
- unsupp0rted 2y ago
  The more doors you open intentionally, the more doors become open unintentionally. If I wanted a device that allows installation of any OS, I would buy one. Companies like “Honor” are already doing a good job of cloning Apple’s UX. Go right ahead… nobody’s stopping manufacturers from making fully hackable phones.

can16358p 2y ago

I get your point, especially given the enormous power of the hardware and capabilities, but there is no surprise here: their hardware, their software, and you know what you are buying (it's not like it was open then it was remotely locked down) so everyone agreed at the time of purchase. What part of this can be made illegal?

nicoburns 2y ago
Anything can be made illegal. I agree it's tricky to create a general rule here. My suggestion would be to require bootloaders to be unlocked such that custom operating systems can be installed on it (and yes this could apply to smart TVs, games consoles, etc too). That wouldn't get it us macOS, but it would get us Linux and incentivise Apple to provide macOS too.

scarface_74 2y ago

So should it also be illegal for game consoles not to run a general purpose OS? The Apple displays also run a version of iOS, should it also be illegal for them not to run full versions of iOS? I have some sympathy for the argument about side loading, the inability to have alternate app stores etc and the things that the EU is addressing haphardly. But saying the government should mandate that Apple must support MacOS on iPads is a bridge too far.