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Japan's clothes-drying bathrooms
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- kibwen 2y agoVery cool, I didn't realize this was a thing. I've actually had the same idea, of having a pole over the tub to hang wet clothes on with a heat pump to blow warm air over them. Even if you don't mind how energy-wasteful tumble-dryers are, the amount of damage they do to your clothes is just astonishing. Every time you clean out your lint trap, you're collecting the shreds that have been torn off your clothes by the dryer. It just feels terrible.
- cpncrunch 2y agoHeating an entire room for 3 hours seems a lot more wasteful than heating a small tumble dryer for 1.5.
- kibwen 2y agoThe objective is not to heat the room, the goal is just to keep the air warm enough and dry enough that evaporation can occur in a timely enough fashion that your clothes don't get musty. Furthermore, with a standard tumble dryer, you're definitely not just heating a small space. Go look at the outside of your house where your dryer exhaust is and look at all the hot air that it's constantly spewing outside. All that energy is just being wasted.
- Filligree 2y agoDryer… exhaust? A what now?
- leguminous 2y agoI assume that, if you aren't being sarcastic, you're European? Or at least not American? You're currently down voted, but many Americans probably don't realize that some countries don't allow vented dryers. Vented dryers are standard here and many Americans have never seen anything else. They are indeed terribly inefficient, using the nice, conditioned, inside air once, heating it and then dumping it outside. All the air that is exhausted from the inside has to get replaced with air from the outside and has to be heated or cooled again.
- harshreality 2y agoAs one of "[those] Americans", I take it that those dryers remove moisture with a condenser loop and a water collector, like an indoor dehumidifier would?
- Filligree 2y agoEuropean, yes. I’ve never even seen a drier with an exhaust, and it didn’t seem like a sensible option to consider. Aren’t heat pumps far more common in America than Europe? Why is it backwards for driers?
- cpncrunch 2y agoModern high efficiency heat pump dryers don't have any exhaust. In the UK dryers have never had an exhaust.
- daveoc64 2y ago>In the UK dryers have never had an exhaust. I wouldn't say never, my home in England had a dryer with an exhaust hose in the 1990s. But since the 2000s, they're not usually seen.
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoHave you seen Japanese shower rooms before? I don’t think it is the kind of room you are thinking about. Check out: https://izanau.com/article/view/bathrooms-in-japan https://izanau.com/article/view/bathrooms-in-japan It is separate from both the sink and the toilet, it’s often just a wet room with maybe a bathtub.
- saagarjha 2y agoIs this more energy efficient than a normal dryer?
- cpncrunch 2y agoSeems highly unlikely. They say it takes 3 hours. Tumble dryer is a smaller space and doesnt take as long.
- dymk 2y agoIt uses a heat pump, so it’s certainly much more efficient than a dryer that uses gas or resistive heating element. Like, by a lot. That being said, energy prices in the US are a lot lower, so the incentive to lower energy usage isn’t there.
- deinonychus 2y agoI used one of these while vacationing last month. The system had a 3 hour timer but you usually had to run a few cycles or be diligent about rotating your overlapping and touching clothes to eliminate wet spots. The unheated fan also seemed to run 24/7 to prevent mold so I am curious what the energy bill for the shower was. A big factor I haven’t seen anyone mention ITT is that you’re pretty limited on space on the shower curtain rod. You can only hang up a few garments on there. Which makes sense because our washer was quite small, too, but still produced more wet laundry than the shower could dry. Back to drying - you can go and hang up clothes on hangers to use the shower rod more efficiently but that: 1) is really annoying to do all the time, and 2) still takes a lot of time because now parts of your shirt are almost 3 feet away from the heat and circulating air, instead of 3 inches. The entire setup was very interesting but required the specific bathroom/shower layout and added a lot of friction to my day. Maybe natives have figured out the annoyances I didn’t in my 2 weeks of vacation.
- cpncrunch 2y agoModern heat pump tumble dryers dont use really hot air, so dont damage clothes as much, and are very efficient.
- kieloo 2y agoThat’s what I was told when I bought a Miele tumble dryer. And while it’s convenient, I now only use it for socks and bed sheets because it shrinks my clothes a lot. I don’t know if it’s better than older dryers but it’s not great.
- cpncrunch 2y agoWhen you take the clothes out, are they hot or lukewarm? Mine are lukewarm, and it doesn't seem possible that heat could damage (and it never does). Other, regular type (high heat) dryers do regularly damage fragile clothes.
- kieloo 2y agoLukewarm. I’m not sure what causes it but it tends to shrink them quite badly.
- cpncrunch 2y agoIs the dryer large enough so that the clothes can tumble (rather than being stuck in place)?
- to11mtm 2y agoGood question. If the clothes aren't moving well enough for them or air to move around, heat pockets can easily lead to shrinkage (or 'cigarette burn' holes in high-polyester shirts). The scenario where after one long round some of your stuff is dry (or even shrunk/damaged) but others are still damp? Probably a sign of an overload or bad load (e.x. comforters + anything but MAYBE sheets tends to be a bad idea...) Or your socks were still balled from the washer and they should be unballed and rewashed b/c they are probably not that clean. If you are overloading a dryer, I've found it best take some clothes out and -not- overload it if you can. I had a very 'consistent' clothing load and a lot of free time during covid, and more or less 'found' that with my dryer, splitting an overload into two normal loads takes about as long as If you -can't-, try to do as many of these as you can: 1. Do -not- try to bump up the temp to overcompensate for the load size. If anything you may want to prefer a lower temperature. 2. Prefer shorter 'rounds' of 20-30 minutes, and manually 'rotate/redistribute' the clothing between each round. This way if the clothes aren't tumbling, you are at least making sure there's some rotation. Ideally you're able to get to the thing within a minute or two to check the rotation and re-start to keep this semi energy efficient... This is a bit easier if you're at a 'laundromat' or have laundry as part of a weekend cleaning routine or whatever. The good thing is, this will probably help the overall load finish faster regardless. 3. Per the comment about the socks... have some mindfulness in transferring the overload. At least in the US it likely means the washer overloaded too (I know other countries may have smaller driers vs washers etc), and I have seen plenty of washes where one of two pieces of clothing just didn't have anywhere to let the water out during the spin. Leave those in the washer till you transfer the others, then try to get the water out. Don't wring the clothing, but consider gently pressing it (for a T-shirt, 'foliding' it and a squeeze over the washer basin will do the job as long as you're gentle about it, or you can 'press' it against, or just run it on a spin or in the next load.)
- throw383y8 2y agoDehumidifier in small closed space, like bathroom, Works great. Tumble dryers are horrible for clothes.
- thebruce87m 2y agoAgreed. We run one in our bathroom 24/7. Bonus is that it dries the daily towels too.
- grose 2y agoI have one of these in my home (in Tokyo). Honestly... they kind of suck. The lint from your clothes clogs your drains and vents even faster than normal (you're supposed to use a plastic slab cover thing over your bath, which requires a lot of maintenance or it gets gross very quickly). It renders your shower unusable for hours at time, so if you live with other people it makes coordination of laundry/showers much more complex. Would not recommend. I got a regular washer/dryer combo unit recently and it markedly improved the quality of my life.
- bemmu 2y agoI also live in Japan. Here people bathe in the evening, while I'm finding it hard to shake my habit of taking a morning shower (spend the whole day dirty? ick). This means if it's raining, we'll have clothes drying in the bathroom, which I'll then need to move out to take a shower. Whether it makes sense to then put them back in to the now wet bathroom with the dryer running I'm not sure.
- grose 2y agoHaha, I know exactly how you feel. I too often wondered about the optimal timing for clothes reinsertion... at least the dryer unit is pretty good at drying out the shower which seems to help with mold, so even if you're not using it for clothes it still serves a purpose.
- schumpeter 2y agoI find this interesting… I grew up in a Latin family and learned to shower at night. I rationalized it as, not going to bed dirty, and you aren’t going to get dirtier just sleeping anyway.
- derefr 2y ago> you aren’t going to get dirtier just sleeping anyway I don’t shower to wash off dirt; I shower to wash off my own body’s excretions. Which definitely do happen while I’m sleeping (and more so, in fact, because body temperature rises during sleep.) I can shower, dry thoroughly, get straight into bed… and still, the next morning, I’m sticky from sweat; have BO (that deodorant won’t mask); and my hair is now stuck moussed by my own overnight scalp oils into looking like Goku.
- matchamatcha 2y agoI would like to have this to avoid the mold that seems to appear inevitably in indoor bathrooms. When I lived in Japan, we used air dehumidifiers, clotheslines on the roof, or the huge tumble dryers at the coin laundry. Tokyo summer sun and wind make clothes dry real quick.
- 123yawaworht456 2y agouh... mold is not inevitable at all, fren.
- aaron695 2y agoHeat pump dryers dry at a lower temperature, have auto-shutoff with sensors and no venting so are far better for your clothing and the room. Normal dryers can do some of this, but it seems heat pump dryers are making the leap. Blurb - https://www.bosch-home.com.sg/experience-bosch/living-with-bosch/fresh-reads/6-reasons-why-you-need-a-bosch-heat-pump-dryer-in-your-life https://www.bosch-home.com.sg/experience-bosch/living-with-b... The catch is heat pump dryers cost more ﷼
- everybodyknows 2y agoThe linked page doesn't say how the extracted water is disposed of. Is a plumbed in-drain required?
- rgmerk 2y agoSome may be plumbed in, but there are also models where you have to empty the reservoir after drying.
- digdigdag 2y agoHow about we continue using something more convenient like a standalone dryer and focus our energy usage reduction on the largest target -- which is manufacturing by a whopping 76% of the total electricity consumption in the United States (https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/industry.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/use-of-energy/industry.p...) as well as transportation. Nothing else comes close. Quirky Japanese technology is not the solution.
- throwaway4aday 2y agoWhy fight an uphill battle for reduction in manufacturing when you can get rich by being the first to offer cost competitive on-site carbon free power production? Forget marketing rooftop solar to households, you should be selling micro-nuclear to steel and cement plants.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- habitue 2y agoAs a society, it makes more sense to figure out how to generate more clean energy (rather than to try to reduce our energy usage). But as an individual who wants to do something, and in principle has an incentive to reduce their energy bill, reducing consumption is the main thing under their control.
- FredPret 2y agoPerhaps it feels that turning down the thermostat or skipping the dryer helps, but the vast majority of your energy use is baked in by the manufacturing and transport of everything you use and eat. If you live far from the temperate zones, just keeping yourself alive costs a ton of energy. The best thing you can do is making nuclear and solar an issue with your local politics and then voting for it.
- habitue 2y ago
- causality0 2y agoand it’s fairly environmentally friendly, as the energy demands of a yokushitsu kansouki are modest compared with a tumble dryer. [citation needed] What I really want is a dryer that uses the hot air from my AC to dry clothes.
- HPsquared 2y agoSounds like a good low-cost product. A duct, a box and a few rails to hang the clothes on.
- dymk 2y agoThe citation is that they use a heat pump. They’re 3-4x as efficient at heating compared to resistive heaters.
- causality0 2y agoTumble dryers can also use heat pumps now.
- dymk 2y ago99.9% of them do not. “Tumble dryer” means resistive or gas heating unless otherwise specified.
- causality0 2y agoWhat are you talking about? Even ten years ago heat pump dryers made up 43% of dryer sales in Europe, and it's only gone up. https://storage.topten.eu/source/files/EEDAL15_Eric_Bush_Heat_Pump_Tumble_Driers.pdf https://storage.topten.eu/source/files/EEDAL15_Eric_Bush_Hea...
- dymk 2y agoWell that's interesting, I didn't realize it was so different in the EU. I suppose differences in energy prices and political willpower might explain it. In the US, the idea of a heat pump dryer is still more or less a foreign concept due to the price.
- treflop 2y agoWe used a yokushitsu kansouki a lot when I was traveling in Japan and they were were awesome but I felt it was not as practical if you had a lot of laundry. Plus the having to shower thing made it annoying sometimes. I do hang dry some clothes at home but at the end of the day, I accept the damage that a dryer does because it allows me to spend a lot less time to clean a lot more clothes and therefore I do laundry way less and spend less time on it. I did like it for drying out the bathroom quicker so it wouldn’t grow mold though.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jjw1414 2y agoMy first thought was of the old “Ronco Shower/Blow Dryer in a Briefcase” skit with Martin Short on SCTV (https://youtu.be/eTHvF2aAi50?si=JmPQsvjV6YtpWjQw https://youtu.be/eTHvF2aAi50?si=JmPQsvjV6YtpWjQw). “Why you….”
- prmoustache 2y agoI am surprised to hear about the high statistics of tumble dryer usage in the US compared to us europeans. I mean, it looks to me like people tend to have more space on average in the USA, why wouldn't they want to prefer to dry their clothes outdoor and makes them last longer? Even when I owned a tumble drier, I only used it for emergencies or wet days. I also found out that on wet days a deshumidifier in a large room was still better for the longevity of my clothes than tumble drying.
- ProfessorLayton 2y agoOnly the most delicate garments get hung dry, but otherwise the dryer is used the vast majority of the time. As for the wear and tear, in my experience most of it came from the washing machine and not the dryer. Older washers with the agitator in the middle wore out my clothes a ton more than modern front-loaded machines, which also adjust wash time depending on load size. Dryers also have humidity sensors that adjust drying time, which is minimal as the washer spins at 1,200 rpm. Lastly, hang drying also has its own wear if done outside: Color fading from the sun. In the end it just isn’t worth the hassle (for me).
- adrianmonk 2y ago> It consists of a heat pump embedded into a bathroom ceiling that blows out warm, dehumidified air onto clothes hung below. Heating the room to up to 35C (95F) to 40C, this room-sized clothes dryer can make short work of a load of washing (hung on a rail straddling the room) in about three hours. This might be fine in cooler climates, but here in Texas, I'm using AC more often than not, and this would fight against the AC, which seems wasteful. Point being, when something is done differently in different parts of the world, sometimes it's because a different solution works better in different circumstances.
- avar 2y agoIf you're going through the trouble of embedding an appliance in your ceiling you could just heat insulate the "drying room" from the rest of the house, and place a door on it that wouldn't allow air to pass through. Given that, I'd expect such a device to be more efficient in Texas, not less.
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoJapan is pretty hot and humid in the summer, but AC isn’t guaranteed. The shower rooms are usually pretty hermetically isolated from the rest of the house, however, including the toilet.
- lmz 2y agoWouldn't the AC's outdoor unit release some hot air that would be great for drying your laundry? Although it maybe not possible if you're forbidden to dry laundry outside.
- Ajay-p 2y agoIn college my roommates and I discovered way to get free washing, but not drying. This meant we had to hang out clothes in the bathroom. The biggest problem with this was that it made the bathroom off limits to showers for two days, and the clothes were quite stiff and rough. I'm not entirely sure how the Japanese solution works, but I'm not convinced by this article to dispense with my tumble dryer. There is certainly a need to reduce energy use and the space washer and dryers take up, but not sure this is it.
- sntran 2y agoI wonder how useful this is to be placed inside a van for that tiny "bathroom" area. We drive most of the day so the clothes can be dry in there, if the energy usage is efficient. Of course, clothes can be hung outside for the warmth of the sun, but this seems way cooler.
- avar 2y agoIf you want something really efficient for clothes drying in a van or mobile home just place a small junkyard car radiator in that tiny "bathroom", and hook the radiator up to your engine's coolant loop. As you're driving around your engine is already trying to vent heat to the outside, so you're mostly getting the heat "for free". The losses due to extending the coolant loop etc. will be comparatively minimal. The only tricky bit will be carefully managing thermostats to ensure that radiator won't be melting something is the bathroom, your coolant will get hot enough to boil water. A "it ain't dumb if it works" variant on that is to literally bolt a box to the top of your hood (depending on visibility etc.), then remove your hood's insulation, and possibly drill a hole to exchange air between the two. Anything in the "hot box" should dry as you drive around.
- fy20 2y ago> your coolant will get hot enough to boil water It should not, unless you are at a high altitude or your engine is faulty. Thermostats on engines target around 90c, but it does vary.
- avar 2y agoI forgot that my car's engine is unusual in this regard, BMW's like to run hot, so normal operating temperature for the coolant is above 100°C.
- nocoiner 2y ago,
- AlbertCory 2y agoIt isn't just Japan. I stayed at a house in London (Richmond, actually) that had this.
- burgerquizz 2y agoI used them for when I was traveling in Tokyo. I bought 2 cotton shirts, washed them then use those bathroom dryers. my 2 shirts shrink… maybe the hear was too high on them? idk… learnt my lesson
- singingfish 2y agoToo cold to hang washing out? Below freezing wet laundry starts to sublimate which when you hang it out.
- wraptile 2y agoWe loved them when backpacking through Japan in early spring. The whole modular bathroom culture was super convenient as every place had a predictable, clean bathroom with core amenities that always felt cozy and welcoming.
- freetime2 2y agoWe use a clothes drying dehumidifier when it’s too cold or humid for line drying [1]. I don’t really love it because it emits a sort of strange smell when it’s running. But it works for drying a large amount of clothing reasonably quickly in the rainy season. Or in winter when we are running our mini-split heat pump to heat the room, we’ll often just set up a drying rack in front of the indoor unit. [1] https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Panasonic-F-YHVX120-W-Clothes-Dehumidifier-Equipped/dp/B09VX9JXQD/ https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/Panasonic-F-YHVX120-W-Clothes-...
- reverendjames 2y agoI had a small studio apartment in Japan. My gas powered regular clothes dryer sat above my washing machine thus taking up no space. This article is stupid. And most of this pontificating about the article is a waste of time.
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoWasher/dryer combos are also really popular in Japan. On my trip last summer, all the hotels had just these.
- throwaway2037 2y ago> gas powered regular clothes dryer Woah, that is rare. What brand? I have seen gas-powered clothes dryers at laundromats, but never inside a home in Japan.
- sdrothrock 2y agoThey're almost always Rinnai, specifically 乾太くん (kanta-kun).
- throwaway2037 2y agoIn my experience of living and travelling in East and Southeast Asia, it seems like Rinnai frequently has a close relationship with the monopoly/dominant natual gas utlity. This makes sense to me.
- 627467 2y agoin Sweden I recall using standing wardrobe-like dryer which was amazing as it actually functioned as a wardrobe most of the time: after drying I'd just leave clothes hanging there until I needed them
- Too 2y agoThey are mentioned in the end of the article, with the claim to be much more energy efficient than a tumbler. This is completely false. Drying cabinets are infamous for being the worst power hog in the home, because they often just release the humid, electrically heated air straight into the ventilation and out of the house. Old tumblers aren’t exactly great in this regard either, you have to compare to the modern versions with a heat pump. Otherwise they can be a nice complement to your drying options. Especially for things like sensitive or bulky outdoor gear for winter.
- jfax 2y agoWe have airing cupboards in the UK. Cupboards with shelving that keep the hot water tank, so it's built around using waste heat from that to now and then dry damp clothes. It's not a one-to-one replacement for full clothes drying, but it's a nice complement to it.
- physicsguy 2y agoNot so much these days given the move to combi boilers though.
- graemep 2y agoUnless you put the combi boiler in an airing cupboard - I have that and it works well. Not usual though - maybe it should be.
- rldjbpin 2y agobathrooms tend to be damp if there is not a proper ventillation system in place, and this seems to be fighting against it. it could be an added benefit for some places, but don't think it is the most elegant solution for everyone. to get dry, 40+ degree air, i just need to open the window during the summer in the city i'm from! but you might still value it for clothes that can't be dried against direct sunlight.
- soraminazuki 2y agoGood ventilation is a must for Japanese homes because it's going to be a mold haven without it. Modern Japanese bathrooms in particular are designed to dry quickly. The bathroom ventilation system runs around the clock and they even have floors that drain the water and prevent puddles from staying forever.
- ethagknight 2y agoDo all in one units just not work very well? Putting the heat pump dryer inside the washing machine sure beats using the whole bathroom in terms of efficiency, both electric and effort. I feel as though America’s “dryer culture“ is based on General Electric and others simply wanting to sell you two appliances instead of one.
- nojvek 2y agoIt’s interesting that even in Florida and Arizona with so much natural sun, how little of Laundry is dried in Sun. Or how few Solar panels there are on roofs. Kinda feel like Sun Belt states leave a huge opportunity on the table. Washington has their grand coulee and 145 other hydrodams. Even has some wind farms and nuclear plant giving it the cheapest electricity. The sun belt states ought to have the cheapest electricity. Really it’s a mystery why electricity is >$0.10/KWh in all states. I remember reading books how Electricity would be too cheap to meter. I have a feel our grandchildren may go ahead and build it. Laugh at how dumb our generation was. “Had everything figured out, just couldn’t will to make it happen.”
- kazinator 2y agoIt's not in every household. It's common to have drying poles in the bedrooms.