10 ms·

How I Made Google's "Web" View My Default Search

176 points by tambourine_man 2y ago

carlob 2y ago
Did anyone turn this into a duckduckgo bang?
- Leftium 2y ago
  Kagi allows you to define custom bangs: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/bangs.html#custom-bangs https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/bangs.html#custom-bangs And you can open an issue/pull request here: https://github.com/kagisearch/bangs https://github.com/kagisearch/bangs (Kagi's search bang redirects work even if you don't have a Kagi account.) Kagi probably has the most updated search bangs, even though DuckDuckGo created them.
gorbypark 2y ago
Unfortunately it seems that Safari hijacks all google.com/search?q= urls and strips all (or at least utm) query params, except q, when google is set to the default search engine! Even pasting in https://google.com/search?q=apple+sauce&utm=14 https://google.com/search?q=apple+sauce&utm=14 to the url bar doesn't work. The only way I was able to get this to work was set DuckDuckGo (or anything non-google) as the default search engine, then use the extension "Smart Keyword Search" to setup a shortcut. I have !g <query> for normal google search and !gw <query> setup for google "web" search.
- aquir 2y ago
  Great tip for the smart keyboard search! I was wondering how can I do this is Safari...(this AI crap is not live in the UK yet btw)
- amai 2y ago
  You have a typo in your URL. You must use "udm" not "utm": https://google.com/search?q=apple+sauce&udm=14 https://google.com/search?q=apple+sauce&udm=14
ajsnigrutin 2y ago
I don't mind the info boxes,... I get mad at google when I input two words into the search field, press enter, and the first few results don't include one of the words (50% of the search! .. even include the "show only links which include..."), and then uses synonym results for the second word, which gives out totally wrong results.
- tyingq 2y ago
  Adding this udm=14 param does seem to do a better job with many queries I tried. Tried "python oracle extension". Without it, the top results are all for cx_oracle, which is deprecated and has a different name now. It's still #1 with udm=14 added, but the right answer jumps up where it's at least visible on the page without scrolling down.
- dpkirchner 2y ago
  "I didn't type the word for fun!", I say multiple times a day. I wish you could make verbatim search the default option. I often don't even get that "show only links..." link. I just get results where my search terms are completely ignored.
  - oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
    > I wish you could make verbatim search the default option. You could create a local html file containing a form that posts to google, then add a minimal amount of js to intercept submission and add the quotes, and set it as your new tab page. I do this myself for a site:-specific search.
- gorbypark 2y ago
  It infuriates me that exact match searches don't work anymore. I understand that for the average person/average query, the modern google results are better (with info boxes, AI type stuff going on), but please let me type in "I want this exact phrase, including punctuation!". I don't even care if it tells me there's nothing found and then makes some suggestions below that.
  - 2y ago
ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago
>Google[...] My Default Search No thanks.
tcsenpai 2y ago
At this point, any decent alternative like duckduckgo or qwant is organically better than google
dandrew5 2y ago
I made something that achieves the same thing[1] except it uses Google's Programmable Search Engines. It's self-hosted and you can configure it the same way as the article using the `%s` string substitution. [1] https://github.com/dan-lovelace/giggle https://github.com/dan-lovelace/giggle
tqwhite 2y ago
I solved this Google problem by paying someone else for search. I have switched to kagi.com, a so-called, "paid, ad-free search engine". I have not yet found one drawback to using it. Unlike previous attempts to switch from Google, I have not ever felt like I was getting substandard answers or thought of switching back. It's been months. And, it is lovely. The lack of ads and of it having no manipulative motivation makes me very happy. It has other features that are nice.
- NayamAmarshe 2y ago
  I have been using Brave Search for a few years now and it's fantastic as well. I don't feel the need to use Google anymore and even if I do for images, I just add a !g to the search query and it automatically redirects me to Google.
- Spivak 2y ago
  Same, it's crazy how easy of a W paying for Kagi is. For a lot of the privacy focused "Google alternatives" you're typically getting privacy in exchange for worse results but on Kagi it's the opposite. They have the !g bang like DuckDuckGo but unlike DDG I've never reached for it. I learned really quick that if Kagi had bad results that Google had even worse ones.
  - WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
    > it's crazy how easy of a W paying for Kagi is. I have low willingness to setup an account and high suspicion of subscriptions. But Kagi was promising hearing protection for Google's ceaseless jackhammering. My fingers seemed to setup an account on their own and then I couldn't send Kagi money fast enough. My Google inflicted migraine has been dialed down to 3 or 4. The downside to having my senses back is that Microsoft's repulsive creepiness is suddenly everywhere. I can't keep MS CP+ and gropey Edge out of my personal desktop space. As if their passive-aggressive Azure/360 wasn't enough abuse.
- mark_l_watson 2y ago
  I tried Kagi for a while and found it to be excellent. I settled on Perplexity for my own use however. I still use Duck Duck Go, Google, and Bing-ChatGPT. Not sure why, but sometimes I like variety.
breeze74 2y ago
[dead]
eggsyOnCode 2y ago
For Firefox I recommend installing an extension "search engine helper" and follow the steps in their help menu. This will add a modified google in your firefox settings. You just need to select that as the default before using it.
est 2y ago
google.com gave me a 302 and stripped the udm=14 part. Is this intentional?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mrintegrity 2y ago
It won't be long before google removes or butchers this feature. Like the feature that used to exist where you could easily block domains from being returned in a search, I guess it was too popular, as this "web" view likely will be too
wczerniak 2y ago
Is it worth it? Should we fight against search engine with workarounds like this? Looks like AI is just another problem with Google Search. But maybe I don't feel this pain like you do. I've fixed them all about a year ago by switching to Kagi and never looked back. Well, maybe at the beginning a little bit, but I like Kagi results more than Google now.
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  It gives some signal that users want a simple web search, but ultimately the HN crowd is a small minority, so it'll be statistically insignificant. I wonder how many strings were pulled to get the web search in in the first place.
- bmacho 2y ago
  It is worth it, it is a great search website. Fast, clean, lean, aesthetically inspiring, and provides great results.
triyambakam 2y ago
Honest question - why still use Google at all? Whenever DDG became good enough (seven? ten? years ago?) I used it exclusively. Lately I use a mix and have moved on from DDG, but I still never went back to Google and don't understand how people can tolerate it; I find the results really bad.
- pmontra 2y ago
  DDG is not as good as Google. I made an experiment now. An Italian company I never heard about sent me a commercial email this morning (I'm in Italy.) I looked for it with Google: first result. I looked for it on DDG: not even on the second page, then I stopped looking. DDG is ok-ish for technical searches, but I remember that I often run those searches again on Google. For anything else it seems confined to the USA. By the way, I'm not logged in into Google even if it probably knows where I am. If DDG knows where I am, it doesn't care or doesn't know how to serve more relevant results.
- hrnnnnnn 2y ago
  For many of my searches DDG seems to completely ignore one or more of my keywords, usually giving me something more popular but less relevant. Almost every time when I try the same search on google it works.
  - theyeenzbeanz 2y ago
    I get the opposite effects on google. As an example, I tried to search for the documentation on watcom’s wasm assembler. It kept giving me results for web assembly no matter how I modified the query nor the Boolean search operators. To me it’s a symptom of search engines trying too hard to be smart and predictable.
  - Aachen 2y ago
    Keep in mind that if you take only a specific type of searches to Google, in this case the ones DDG struggles with, it may just be that Google is good at that class specifically (like natural language or a query doing well with long literal string matching or something) and that makes it appear more competent while others, using Google all the time, are annoyed by it a lot of the time
ankit219 2y ago
I like the web feature, specifically when you are researching. Can understand the "hiding" at this point, as I guess they are still figuring out the best place for it. Sundar Pichai in some interview said that generative search only appears on some specific queries. If that is true, and they have some logic to determine which experience to show (i think i might be wrong here), then would love to see "web" option as default or in the top strip for research type queries where it's most needed.
rolfus 2y ago
I also use the Vivaldi browser, and the trick from the article (adding %s&udm=14 to the search URL in the search settings) works just as advertised. Such a pleasant little QOL improvement.
- scotty79 2y ago
  If you are using Chrome (or perhaps other browsers) instructions from this page work: https://tenbluelinks.org/ https://tenbluelinks.org/
lelanthran 2y ago
I want to make my own search engine, one day, with my own crawler. There is an SEO-proof way to determine what the ranking of a site should be - penalise it for each advertisement, penalise further for delivering different content to the crawler[1], allow logged-in users to down-rank a site, etc. Basically, a site starts off with a perfect score, then gets penalised for each violation, for each dark-pattern, for each anti-user decision they took. This sort of ranking cannot be gamed by SEO spammers, because ... why get their site to the top of the rankings if they can't put any advertisements on it? Even if they do manage it, their time in the sun will be brief. [1] Random spot-checks with different user agents with different fingerprints should work.
- amelius 2y ago
  There may be a place for a green (climate-friendly) search engine, where every ad for physical products is penalized.
- nicce 2y ago
  > allow logged-in users to down-rank a site, etc. And then you need a huge anti-bot mechanism if the search engine will get any popularity. There is money-based motivation to affect the rankings.
  - nine_k 2y ago
    Karma, occasional moderation rights, and occasional meta-moderation rights worked pretty well at Slashdot, for instance. It depends heavily on user involvement though.
    - nicce 2y ago
      Yeah, there is a dilemma. To get a wider audience, you need very good search results. But if you search quality depends on the amount of users, how do you get in there? People like power, that keeps them moderating (looking at Facebook groups). What kind of reward system works here?
      - 2y ago
wernsey 2y ago
I had to do some digging on SuperUser [0] to get this working in Firefox, because it has the "Add Search Engine" button disabled by default. * Go to `about:config` * Change `browser.urlbar.update2.engineAliasRefresh` to true * Now you can go to `about:preferences#search` * ...and click the "Add" button below Search Shortcuts * Add `https://www.google.com/search?q=%s&udm=14 https://www.google.com/search?q=%s&udm=14` as your URL. * Set the name to "Google Web" or whatever you prefer and choose a keyword. You can also change your default search engine or other preferences. [0] https://superuser.com/a/1756774/40115 https://superuser.com/a/1756774/40115
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
  > Change `browser.urlbar.update2.engineAliasRefresh` to true Just a note that this flag didn't exist in my Ffx 127.0b4. Created to True = surfaced the Add button as advertised.
- thot_experiment 2y ago
  I had to do this a while back and it's nearly made me punch my monitor. The lowest circle of hell for the person/people who decided putting this basic functionality behind a fucking arcane flag. Few things make me more mad than having my finite life wasted hunting down solutions to problems that have no reason to exist.
  - jabiko 2y ago
    Apparently its behind a flag because the feature is not completely ready yet. However I was unable to find what work is still needed for it to be considered ready: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1106626#c18 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1106626#c18
    - pmlnr 2y ago
      Not ready my ass, this was a thing before deciding to move away from XUL.
- wildpeaks 2y ago
ndom91 2y ago
Happy Kagi customer here and pushing it where I can. The results are much better than DDG or Brave search, which I both tried for a few months, and it's got some really nice built-in tools to bump domains up or down in results, block domains, etc.
- spurgu 2y ago
  Exactly the same experience here. Gave DDG a go, then ran with Brave Search for a couple of months, then discovered Kagi and never looked back.
- brodo 2y ago
  They are also better than Google search. When I was using DDG, I still used Google from time to time if DDG's results were not helpful. After I switched to Kagi, I did the same at first but soon realized that when Kagi gives you bad results, Google's are even worse.

Did anyone turn this into a duckduckgo bang?

Leftium 2y ago
Kagi allows you to define custom bangs: https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/bangs.html#custom-bangs https://help.kagi.com/kagi/features/bangs.html#custom-bangs And you can open an issue/pull request here: https://github.com/kagisearch/bangs https://github.com/kagisearch/bangs (Kagi's search bang redirects work even if you don't have a Kagi account.) Kagi probably has the most updated search bangs, even though DuckDuckGo created them.

Unfortunately it seems that Safari hijacks all google.com/search?q= urls and strips all (or at least utm) query params, except q, when google is set to the default search engine! Even pasting in https://google.com/search?q=apple+sauce&utm=14 https://google.com/search?q=apple+sauce&utm=14 to the url bar doesn't work. The only way I was able to get this to work was set DuckDuckGo (or anything non-google) as the default search engine, then use the extension "Smart Keyword Search" to setup a shortcut. I have !g <query> for normal google search and !gw <query> setup for google "web" search.

aquir 2y ago
Great tip for the smart keyboard search! I was wondering how can I do this is Safari...(this AI crap is not live in the UK yet btw)
amai 2y ago
You have a typo in your URL. You must use "udm" not "utm": https://google.com/search?q=apple+sauce&udm=14 https://google.com/search?q=apple+sauce&udm=14

ajsnigrutin 2y ago

I don't mind the info boxes,... I get mad at google when I input two words into the search field, press enter, and the first few results don't include one of the words (50% of the search! .. even include the "show only links which include..."), and then uses synonym results for the second word, which gives out totally wrong results.

tyingq 2y ago
Adding this udm=14 param does seem to do a better job with many queries I tried. Tried "python oracle extension". Without it, the top results are all for cx_oracle, which is deprecated and has a different name now. It's still #1 with udm=14 added, but the right answer jumps up where it's at least visible on the page without scrolling down.
dpkirchner 2y ago
"I didn't type the word for fun!", I say multiple times a day. I wish you could make verbatim search the default option. I often don't even get that "show only links..." link. I just get results where my search terms are completely ignored.
- oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
  > I wish you could make verbatim search the default option. You could create a local html file containing a form that posts to google, then add a minimal amount of js to intercept submission and add the quotes, and set it as your new tab page. I do this myself for a site:-specific search.
gorbypark 2y ago
It infuriates me that exact match searches don't work anymore. I understand that for the average person/average query, the modern google results are better (with info boxes, AI type stuff going on), but please let me type in "I want this exact phrase, including punctuation!". I don't even care if it tells me there's nothing found and then makes some suggestions below that.
- 2y ago

ThePowerOfFuet 2y ago

>Google[...] My Default Search No thanks.

tcsenpai 2y ago

At this point, any decent alternative like duckduckgo or qwant is organically better than google

dandrew5 2y ago

I made something that achieves the same thing[1] except it uses Google's Programmable Search Engines. It's self-hosted and you can configure it the same way as the article using the `%s` string substitution. [1] https://github.com/dan-lovelace/giggle https://github.com/dan-lovelace/giggle

tqwhite 2y ago

I solved this Google problem by paying someone else for search. I have switched to kagi.com, a so-called, "paid, ad-free search engine". I have not yet found one drawback to using it. Unlike previous attempts to switch from Google, I have not ever felt like I was getting substandard answers or thought of switching back. It's been months. And, it is lovely. The lack of ads and of it having no manipulative motivation makes me very happy. It has other features that are nice.

NayamAmarshe 2y ago
I have been using Brave Search for a few years now and it's fantastic as well. I don't feel the need to use Google anymore and even if I do for images, I just add a !g to the search query and it automatically redirects me to Google.
Spivak 2y ago
Same, it's crazy how easy of a W paying for Kagi is. For a lot of the privacy focused "Google alternatives" you're typically getting privacy in exchange for worse results but on Kagi it's the opposite. They have the !g bang like DuckDuckGo but unlike DDG I've never reached for it. I learned really quick that if Kagi had bad results that Google had even worse ones.
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
  > it's crazy how easy of a W paying for Kagi is. I have low willingness to setup an account and high suspicion of subscriptions. But Kagi was promising hearing protection for Google's ceaseless jackhammering. My fingers seemed to setup an account on their own and then I couldn't send Kagi money fast enough. My Google inflicted migraine has been dialed down to 3 or 4. The downside to having my senses back is that Microsoft's repulsive creepiness is suddenly everywhere. I can't keep MS CP+ and gropey Edge out of my personal desktop space. As if their passive-aggressive Azure/360 wasn't enough abuse.
mark_l_watson 2y ago
I tried Kagi for a while and found it to be excellent. I settled on Perplexity for my own use however. I still use Duck Duck Go, Google, and Bing-ChatGPT. Not sure why, but sometimes I like variety.

breeze74 2y ago

[dead]

eggsyOnCode 2y ago

For Firefox I recommend installing an extension "search engine helper" and follow the steps in their help menu. This will add a modified google in your firefox settings. You just need to select that as the default before using it.

est 2y ago

google.com gave me a 302 and stripped the udm=14 part. Is this intentional?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

mrintegrity 2y ago

It won't be long before google removes or butchers this feature. Like the feature that used to exist where you could easily block domains from being returned in a search, I guess it was too popular, as this "web" view likely will be too

wczerniak 2y ago

Is it worth it? Should we fight against search engine with workarounds like this? Looks like AI is just another problem with Google Search. But maybe I don't feel this pain like you do. I've fixed them all about a year ago by switching to Kagi and never looked back. Well, maybe at the beginning a little bit, but I like Kagi results more than Google now.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago
It gives some signal that users want a simple web search, but ultimately the HN crowd is a small minority, so it'll be statistically insignificant. I wonder how many strings were pulled to get the web search in in the first place.
bmacho 2y ago
It is worth it, it is a great search website. Fast, clean, lean, aesthetically inspiring, and provides great results.

triyambakam 2y ago

Honest question - why still use Google at all? Whenever DDG became good enough (seven? ten? years ago?) I used it exclusively. Lately I use a mix and have moved on from DDG, but I still never went back to Google and don't understand how people can tolerate it; I find the results really bad.

pmontra 2y ago
DDG is not as good as Google. I made an experiment now. An Italian company I never heard about sent me a commercial email this morning (I'm in Italy.) I looked for it with Google: first result. I looked for it on DDG: not even on the second page, then I stopped looking. DDG is ok-ish for technical searches, but I remember that I often run those searches again on Google. For anything else it seems confined to the USA. By the way, I'm not logged in into Google even if it probably knows where I am. If DDG knows where I am, it doesn't care or doesn't know how to serve more relevant results.
hrnnnnnn 2y ago
For many of my searches DDG seems to completely ignore one or more of my keywords, usually giving me something more popular but less relevant. Almost every time when I try the same search on google it works.
- theyeenzbeanz 2y ago
  I get the opposite effects on google. As an example, I tried to search for the documentation on watcom’s wasm assembler. It kept giving me results for web assembly no matter how I modified the query nor the Boolean search operators. To me it’s a symptom of search engines trying too hard to be smart and predictable.
- Aachen 2y ago
  Keep in mind that if you take only a specific type of searches to Google, in this case the ones DDG struggles with, it may just be that Google is good at that class specifically (like natural language or a query doing well with long literal string matching or something) and that makes it appear more competent while others, using Google all the time, are annoyed by it a lot of the time

ankit219 2y ago

I like the web feature, specifically when you are researching. Can understand the "hiding" at this point, as I guess they are still figuring out the best place for it. Sundar Pichai in some interview said that generative search only appears on some specific queries. If that is true, and they have some logic to determine which experience to show (i think i might be wrong here), then would love to see "web" option as default or in the top strip for research type queries where it's most needed.

rolfus 2y ago

I also use the Vivaldi browser, and the trick from the article (adding %s&udm=14 to the search URL in the search settings) works just as advertised. Such a pleasant little QOL improvement.

scotty79 2y ago
If you are using Chrome (or perhaps other browsers) instructions from this page work: https://tenbluelinks.org/ https://tenbluelinks.org/

lelanthran 2y ago

I want to make my own search engine, one day, with my own crawler. There is an SEO-proof way to determine what the ranking of a site should be - penalise it for each advertisement, penalise further for delivering different content to the crawler[1], allow logged-in users to down-rank a site, etc. Basically, a site starts off with a perfect score, then gets penalised for each violation, for each dark-pattern, for each anti-user decision they took. This sort of ranking cannot be gamed by SEO spammers, because ... why get their site to the top of the rankings if they can't put any advertisements on it? Even if they do manage it, their time in the sun will be brief. [1] Random spot-checks with different user agents with different fingerprints should work.

amelius 2y ago
There may be a place for a green (climate-friendly) search engine, where every ad for physical products is penalized.
nicce 2y ago
> allow logged-in users to down-rank a site, etc. And then you need a huge anti-bot mechanism if the search engine will get any popularity. There is money-based motivation to affect the rankings.
- nine_k 2y ago
  Karma, occasional moderation rights, and occasional meta-moderation rights worked pretty well at Slashdot, for instance. It depends heavily on user involvement though.
  - nicce 2y ago
    Yeah, there is a dilemma. To get a wider audience, you need very good search results. But if you search quality depends on the amount of users, how do you get in there? People like power, that keeps them moderating (looking at Facebook groups). What kind of reward system works here?
    - 2y ago

wernsey 2y ago

I had to do some digging on SuperUser [0] to get this working in Firefox, because it has the "Add Search Engine" button disabled by default. * Go to `about:config` * Change `browser.urlbar.update2.engineAliasRefresh` to true * Now you can go to `about:preferences#search` * ...and click the "Add" button below Search Shortcuts * Add `https://www.google.com/search?q=%s&udm=14 https://www.google.com/search?q=%s&udm=14` as your URL. * Set the name to "Google Web" or whatever you prefer and choose a keyword. You can also change your default search engine or other preferences. [0] https://superuser.com/a/1756774/40115 https://superuser.com/a/1756774/40115

WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
> Change `browser.urlbar.update2.engineAliasRefresh` to true Just a note that this flag didn't exist in my Ffx 127.0b4. Created to True = surfaced the Add button as advertised.
thot_experiment 2y ago
I had to do this a while back and it's nearly made me punch my monitor. The lowest circle of hell for the person/people who decided putting this basic functionality behind a fucking arcane flag. Few things make me more mad than having my finite life wasted hunting down solutions to problems that have no reason to exist.
- jabiko 2y ago
  Apparently its behind a flag because the feature is not completely ready yet. However I was unable to find what work is still needed for it to be considered ready: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1106626#c18 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1106626#c18
  - pmlnr 2y ago
    Not ready my ass, this was a thing before deciding to move away from XUL.
wildpeaks 2y ago

ndom91 2y ago

Happy Kagi customer here and pushing it where I can. The results are much better than DDG or Brave search, which I both tried for a few months, and it's got some really nice built-in tools to bump domains up or down in results, block domains, etc.

spurgu 2y ago
Exactly the same experience here. Gave DDG a go, then ran with Brave Search for a couple of months, then discovered Kagi and never looked back.
brodo 2y ago
They are also better than Google search. When I was using DDG, I still used Google from time to time if DDG's results were not helpful. After I switched to Kagi, I did the same at first but soon realized that when Kagi gives you bad results, Google's are even worse.