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For those who aren't gifted with the dutch language (its easy to learn for enlgish speakers. Its like german but with english syntax. logical spelling and gramm

For those who aren't gifted with the dutch language (its easy to learn for enlgish speakers. Its like german but with english syntax. logical spelling and grammar thats really not that hard) Anyway, Tegelwippen is where you "flip tiles" and replace them with plants. The basic play is that it reduces flooding, and regulates temperature. Plus its pretty. https://interlace-hub.com/national-dutch-championship-%E2%80%98tile-tipping%E2%80%99-nk-tegelwippen https://interlace-hub.com/national-dutch-championship-%E2%80... The thing that makes its dutch, is that they don't tend to use asphalt in holland for paving, its mostly tiles. This means that you don't need anything other than hand tooling to make a change.

ByThyGrace 2y ago
It looks like they're removing tiles from public pathways in some of those pictures. Is that legal in NL?
- wffurr 2y ago
  The translated rules page mentions municipal regulations that allow a “facade garden” on the front sidewalk.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  If your home does not have a garden in front (directly against the sidewalk), and you do not make it deeper than 60cm, and you can leave at least 1.2m of sidewalk from the edge of the removed/replaced tiles. Still, pretty cool stuff.
- _delirium 2y ago
  Googling suggests that the details differ by municipality. For example, Hilversum requires [1] you to submit a proposal for a facade garden. If approved, the municipality will take care of removing the appropriate width of sidewalk tiles and replacing them with soil. The owner is responsible for planting and maintaining the resulting garden. Other municipalities have different regulations. [1] https://hilversum.nl/en/mijn-wijk/geveltuintje-aanleggen https://hilversum.nl/en/mijn-wijk/geveltuintje-aanleggen
isoprophlex 2y ago
Plus "wippen" also means, roughly, "to shag", so it has this lulzy undertone
- Aeolun 2y ago
  I think in this case the connotation is more with the seesaw version of wippen. At least, I have a very hard time associating ‘tegel’ and the sexual version of ‘wippen’.
- skrebbel 2y ago
  The whole site is full of this stuff. You can be “wipper van de maand” (shagger of the month), there’s “wiptips”, and > Bij het NK Tegelwippen hebben we nogal wat affiniteit met de bloemetjes en de bijtjes (snap je ‘m?) which loosely translates to “We at NK Tegelwippen are rather fond of the birds and the bees (get it?)” For context, “wippen” means “to flip <something> over” and “to hop on a seesaw” but it’s also polite slang for having sex.
niemandhier 2y ago
The size of the Dutch vocabulary is insane! The average Dutch person has a passive vocabulary of about 42k words, the average German speaker has only 20k passive vocabulary. In German 1300 words make up about 85 % of a text, in Dutch you need 2000.
- Gys 2y ago
  Source?
- cyberlimerence 2y ago
  Very interesting. If you could elaborate, are there linguistical/historical reasons for that ? Does Dutch use more "fine-grained" concepts on average ?
  - orlp 2y ago
    I suspect compound words are a major component of it. In English "car factory" are two words. In Dutch an "autofabriek" is one word. A dictionary might choose to list the most common compound words which quickly adds up.
    - cyberlimerence 2y ago
      In relation to English, sure. But above compares Dutch to German, and they are both Germanic languages, and I think utilize compound words heavily. Looking at sibling comments, maybe those numbers are exaggerated.
      - lucb1e 2y ago
        It's not like English doesn't have compound words. It's generally "patient data" and not "patients' data" because the words form a compound noun in the same way that "patientendaten" in German and "patientendata" in Dutch form a compound noun. What's more, English also does togetherwriting. Are "web site" and "website" counted as two words when doing an English word count? Or are words like "web site" simply not included (only "web" and "site" separately)? (Fun fact: website is webseite in German, where "seite" actually means "page" and not site at all, so you're really saying webpage which, in turn, happens to also exist with a nearly interchangeable meaning in english. I wonder how many circles of meaning there are like that! ChatGPT wasn't able to come up with any, at least not without prompt tweaking or follow-ups)
barrenko 2y ago
Easier to learn than German?
- lucb1e 2y ago
  I (Dutch) found English much much easier to learn than German. Controlling for the amount of benefit I saw and exposure I got to English, probably it's more like "a little easier" but, still, I expect the inverse (English to Dutch) is similar. There's no way that it's harder to learn the language with 2 genders and 2 corresponding words for "the" ("de" and "het") than the language with 16 words for "the" (and the German gender+case stuff also carries over into all adjectives and other word classes, which Dutch mostly doesn't do (the words for "this" and "that" are the only exceptions I can think of)). I'm also pretty sure Dutch has more loan(ed out) words or cognate words. If you want to go even easier, Afrikaans is like Dutch but with even more English influences and even fewer grammar rules afaik, e.g. no verb conjugations: where in Dutch you say "ik ga, hij gaat, wij gaan" (I go, he goes, we go), in Afrikaans that's something like "ek gaan, hy gaan, wy gaan". I don't think knowing Afrikaans reasonably would allow you to also reasonably read Dutch though, if that were the goal (let alone German, which is practically unintelligible to someone who speaks perfect Dutch and English if they didn't also have any amount of German training)
  - barrenko 2y ago
    I knew German well enough some decade ago.. so it's nice to know if I had to learn it, I'do ok (I may have to)
microtonal 2y ago
Its like german but with english syntax I don't want to be too pedantic, but it's not. Dutch syntax is very similar to German, both are typically analyzed as an SOV (subject-object-verb) language with movement of the finite verb to the V2 position in declarative main clauses, unlike English. Word order of Dutch and German clauses (+ some other Germanic languages) are typically described in terms of topological fields [1] and Dutch and German have very similar (albeit not the same) topological field constraints, leading to very similar word orders. Like German, Dutch has grammatical genders (three like German, though only two are distinguished in definite articles), similar verb conjugation, etc. People are often led to believe that Dutch is more similar to English because it doesn't have overt case marking. [1] Simplified, a clause is partitioned into a vorfeld, mittelfeld, and nachfeld by the so-called brackets, which are the V2 and verb cluster positions.
- hetspookjee 2y ago
  What book would you recommend to start to best understand the way you described the differences and similarities between the languages? It really is a very nice post and I’d like to thank you for it.
  - microtonal 2y ago
    A linguist could probably come up with a good reference for a comparative work. I mostly had to dig into some of this stuff when working on Dutch and German NLP, but I am by no means a linguist. For Dutch I found this book very helpful: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/syntax-of-dutch/FB5E136B762CD736DD0764AF3174A797 https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/syntax-of-dutch/FB5E136... It also has comparisons to German spread throughout the book. (Full disclosure: former colleague of mine.) If you can read Dutch, the E-ANS is also a very valuable resource: https://e-ans.ivdnt.org/topics/pid/ans21lingtopic https://e-ans.ivdnt.org/topics/pid/ans21lingtopic E.g., description of topological fields: https://e-ans.ivdnt.org/topics/pid/ans21010101lingtopic https://e-ans.ivdnt.org/topics/pid/ans21010101lingtopic https://e-ans.ivdnt.org/topics/pid/ans21010102lingtopic https://e-ans.ivdnt.org/topics/pid/ans21010102lingtopic
  - gillesjacobs 2y ago
amelius 2y ago
What does "NK" mean?
- consp 2y ago
  Nederlands Kampioenschap or Dutch national Championship
- bartkappenburg 2y ago
  Dutch Championship (Nederlands Kampioenschap)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
davedx 2y ago
English speaker who moved to the Netherlands here. My experience was it isn't particularly easier or harder than any other language to learn. The grammar and word ordering is different enough that you really have to study and practice a lot how to structure sentences. Pronunciation of some sounds (like 'ui') can be pretty hard if you've never had to make those sounds before in your life. But indeed the spelling is much more consistent than English, which definitely helps a ton with reading and writing. I moved to the NL 14 years ago, took the Staatsexamen for naturalisation after Brexit, have had a couple of jobs where Dutch was the first language, but my Dutch still isn't perfect and I regularly make mistakes. That being said, I am now finally at the stage where I can go on a day trip to Amsterdam and the locals don't speak English back to me when I speak Dutch. :)
- thfuran 2y ago
  >My experience was it isn't particularly easier or harder than any other language to learn. Then I suspect you've never tried to learn languages that are very different from English like Mandarin, Hungarian, or Tamil.
  - davedx 2y ago
    I've also tried Japanese, Swahili, Arabic and Hebrew. Languages with completely different writing systems obviously have a significant extra hurdle. And of course, it depends how well you want to learn it. Becoming fluent enough to get by when you travel somewhere for a holiday or business trip is one thing; becoming proficient enough to do job interviews and work full time professionally with that language is another kettle of fish. :)
- lucb1e 2y ago
  > I am now finally at the stage where I can go on a day trip to Amsterdam and the locals don't speak English back to me when I speak Dutch. Was in Amsterdam again yesterday for the first time in a couple years and was again surprised to notice how many people just default to English, or waiters who speak back to me in English after me ordering in (my native) Dutch. Finding people to speak Dutch back to you in Amsterdam is an impressive feat in itself! :D Either way, congrats on becoming accentless enough that people don't hear it anymore and jump on the opportunity to speak English!
huhuhu111 2y ago
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ByThyGrace 2y ago

It looks like they're removing tiles from public pathways in some of those pictures. Is that legal in NL?

wffurr 2y ago
The translated rules page mentions municipal regulations that allow a “facade garden” on the front sidewalk.
Aeolun 2y ago
If your home does not have a garden in front (directly against the sidewalk), and you do not make it deeper than 60cm, and you can leave at least 1.2m of sidewalk from the edge of the removed/replaced tiles. Still, pretty cool stuff.
_delirium 2y ago
Googling suggests that the details differ by municipality. For example, Hilversum requires [1] you to submit a proposal for a facade garden. If approved, the municipality will take care of removing the appropriate width of sidewalk tiles and replacing them with soil. The owner is responsible for planting and maintaining the resulting garden. Other municipalities have different regulations. [1] https://hilversum.nl/en/mijn-wijk/geveltuintje-aanleggen https://hilversum.nl/en/mijn-wijk/geveltuintje-aanleggen

isoprophlex 2y ago

Plus "wippen" also means, roughly, "to shag", so it has this lulzy undertone

Aeolun 2y ago
I think in this case the connotation is more with the seesaw version of wippen. At least, I have a very hard time associating ‘tegel’ and the sexual version of ‘wippen’.
skrebbel 2y ago
The whole site is full of this stuff. You can be “wipper van de maand” (shagger of the month), there’s “wiptips”, and > Bij het NK Tegelwippen hebben we nogal wat affiniteit met de bloemetjes en de bijtjes (snap je ‘m?) which loosely translates to “We at NK Tegelwippen are rather fond of the birds and the bees (get it?)” For context, “wippen” means “to flip <something> over” and “to hop on a seesaw” but it’s also polite slang for having sex.

niemandhier 2y ago

The size of the Dutch vocabulary is insane! The average Dutch person has a passive vocabulary of about 42k words, the average German speaker has only 20k passive vocabulary. In German 1300 words make up about 85 % of a text, in Dutch you need 2000.

Gys 2y ago
Source?
cyberlimerence 2y ago
Very interesting. If you could elaborate, are there linguistical/historical reasons for that ? Does Dutch use more "fine-grained" concepts on average ?
- orlp 2y ago
  I suspect compound words are a major component of it. In English "car factory" are two words. In Dutch an "autofabriek" is one word. A dictionary might choose to list the most common compound words which quickly adds up.
  - cyberlimerence 2y ago
    In relation to English, sure. But above compares Dutch to German, and they are both Germanic languages, and I think utilize compound words heavily. Looking at sibling comments, maybe those numbers are exaggerated.
    - lucb1e 2y ago
      It's not like English doesn't have compound words. It's generally "patient data" and not "patients' data" because the words form a compound noun in the same way that "patientendaten" in German and "patientendata" in Dutch form a compound noun. What's more, English also does togetherwriting. Are "web site" and "website" counted as two words when doing an English word count? Or are words like "web site" simply not included (only "web" and "site" separately)? (Fun fact: website is webseite in German, where "seite" actually means "page" and not site at all, so you're really saying webpage which, in turn, happens to also exist with a nearly interchangeable meaning in english. I wonder how many circles of meaning there are like that! ChatGPT wasn't able to come up with any, at least not without prompt tweaking or follow-ups)

barrenko 2y ago

Easier to learn than German?

lucb1e 2y ago
I (Dutch) found English much much easier to learn than German. Controlling for the amount of benefit I saw and exposure I got to English, probably it's more like "a little easier" but, still, I expect the inverse (English to Dutch) is similar. There's no way that it's harder to learn the language with 2 genders and 2 corresponding words for "the" ("de" and "het") than the language with 16 words for "the" (and the German gender+case stuff also carries over into all adjectives and other word classes, which Dutch mostly doesn't do (the words for "this" and "that" are the only exceptions I can think of)). I'm also pretty sure Dutch has more loan(ed out) words or cognate words. If you want to go even easier, Afrikaans is like Dutch but with even more English influences and even fewer grammar rules afaik, e.g. no verb conjugations: where in Dutch you say "ik ga, hij gaat, wij gaan" (I go, he goes, we go), in Afrikaans that's something like "ek gaan, hy gaan, wy gaan". I don't think knowing Afrikaans reasonably would allow you to also reasonably read Dutch though, if that were the goal (let alone German, which is practically unintelligible to someone who speaks perfect Dutch and English if they didn't also have any amount of German training)
- barrenko 2y ago
  I knew German well enough some decade ago.. so it's nice to know if I had to learn it, I'do ok (I may have to)

microtonal 2y ago

Its like german but with english syntax I don't want to be too pedantic, but it's not. Dutch syntax is very similar to German, both are typically analyzed as an SOV (subject-object-verb) language with movement of the finite verb to the V2 position in declarative main clauses, unlike English. Word order of Dutch and German clauses (+ some other Germanic languages) are typically described in terms of topological fields [1] and Dutch and German have very similar (albeit not the same) topological field constraints, leading to very similar word orders. Like German, Dutch has grammatical genders (three like German, though only two are distinguished in definite articles), similar verb conjugation, etc. People are often led to believe that Dutch is more similar to English because it doesn't have overt case marking. [1] Simplified, a clause is partitioned into a vorfeld, mittelfeld, and nachfeld by the so-called brackets, which are the V2 and verb cluster positions.

hetspookjee 2y ago
What book would you recommend to start to best understand the way you described the differences and similarities between the languages? It really is a very nice post and I’d like to thank you for it.
- microtonal 2y ago
  A linguist could probably come up with a good reference for a comparative work. I mostly had to dig into some of this stuff when working on Dutch and German NLP, but I am by no means a linguist. For Dutch I found this book very helpful: https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/syntax-of-dutch/FB5E136B762CD736DD0764AF3174A797 https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/syntax-of-dutch/FB5E136... It also has comparisons to German spread throughout the book. (Full disclosure: former colleague of mine.) If you can read Dutch, the E-ANS is also a very valuable resource: https://e-ans.ivdnt.org/topics/pid/ans21lingtopic https://e-ans.ivdnt.org/topics/pid/ans21lingtopic E.g., description of topological fields: https://e-ans.ivdnt.org/topics/pid/ans21010101lingtopic https://e-ans.ivdnt.org/topics/pid/ans21010101lingtopic https://e-ans.ivdnt.org/topics/pid/ans21010102lingtopic https://e-ans.ivdnt.org/topics/pid/ans21010102lingtopic
- gillesjacobs 2y ago

amelius 2y ago

What does "NK" mean?

consp 2y ago
Nederlands Kampioenschap or Dutch national Championship
bartkappenburg 2y ago
Dutch Championship (Nederlands Kampioenschap)
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

davedx 2y ago

English speaker who moved to the Netherlands here. My experience was it isn't particularly easier or harder than any other language to learn. The grammar and word ordering is different enough that you really have to study and practice a lot how to structure sentences. Pronunciation of some sounds (like 'ui') can be pretty hard if you've never had to make those sounds before in your life. But indeed the spelling is much more consistent than English, which definitely helps a ton with reading and writing. I moved to the NL 14 years ago, took the Staatsexamen for naturalisation after Brexit, have had a couple of jobs where Dutch was the first language, but my Dutch still isn't perfect and I regularly make mistakes. That being said, I am now finally at the stage where I can go on a day trip to Amsterdam and the locals don't speak English back to me when I speak Dutch. :)

thfuran 2y ago
>My experience was it isn't particularly easier or harder than any other language to learn. Then I suspect you've never tried to learn languages that are very different from English like Mandarin, Hungarian, or Tamil.
- davedx 2y ago
  I've also tried Japanese, Swahili, Arabic and Hebrew. Languages with completely different writing systems obviously have a significant extra hurdle. And of course, it depends how well you want to learn it. Becoming fluent enough to get by when you travel somewhere for a holiday or business trip is one thing; becoming proficient enough to do job interviews and work full time professionally with that language is another kettle of fish. :)
lucb1e 2y ago
> I am now finally at the stage where I can go on a day trip to Amsterdam and the locals don't speak English back to me when I speak Dutch. Was in Amsterdam again yesterday for the first time in a couple years and was again surprised to notice how many people just default to English, or waiters who speak back to me in English after me ordering in (my native) Dutch. Finding people to speak Dutch back to you in Amsterdam is an impressive feat in itself! :D Either way, congrats on becoming accentless enough that people don't hear it anymore and jump on the opportunity to speak English!

huhuhu111 2y ago

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