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DB-19: Resurrecting an Obsolete Connector (2016)
- gumby 2y agoThat's not a "DB"-19. The DB shell is much wider, sized to accommodate up to 25 pins. It's more likely a DA-19, or maybe a DE-19. Or, as the author specified their own dimensions, an unofficial variant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature
- throw0101d 2y ago> That's not a "DB"-19. It is the colloquial term for the connector (regardless of what the 'official' name may be): > Several computers also used a non-standard 19-pin D-sub connector, sometimes called DB-19,[8] including Macintosh (external floppy drive), Atari ST (external hard drive), and NeXT (Megapixel Display monitor[9] and laser printer). * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature#Common_misnomers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature#Common_misnomer... * https://iec.net/what-is-a-db19-connector/ https://iec.net/what-is-a-db19-connector/ * https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=db19+connector https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=db19+connector > The early Macintosh and late Apple II computers used a non-standard 19-pin D-sub for connecting external floppy disk drives. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature#Other https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature#Other * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mac512k-rear_DB-19_Smartport_(cropped).jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mac512k-rear_DB-19_Smartp...
- raggles 2y agoIt might be the colloquial term, but if you ask someone for a DB-15 connector then theres a good chance you'll get the wrong one. I regularly use both DE-15 and DA-15 in my line of work (among others), and any document that refers to a DB-xx for anything that isn't the DB shell size will be corrected.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- gugagore 2y agoSo when people call the (smaller) PC serial port connector DB9, they're technically wrong? TIL
- ssl-3 2y agoFor some versions of "technically," yes: A DB9 isn't really a thing. But ostensibly, everyone who needs to know will know what is meant when a person says "DB9," and thus it works fine. (Relatedly, the connector used for Ethernet is not an RJ45.)
- javawizard 2y ago> (Relatedly, the connector used for Ethernet is not an RJ45.) Wait, what? I cannot find a single source on Google for this - they all say RJ45 is the correct term. If it's not an RJ45, what is it?
- andrewshadura 2y ago8P8C
- formerly_proven 2y agoRegistered Jacks are always for phone stuff, the general-purpose name would be 8P8C.
- atombender 2y agoWikipedia has a good explanation: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector#8P8C https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector#8P8C
- colejohnson66 2y agoRJ45 is/was the pinout/wiring of an 8P8C[1] (eight pin/eight contact) connector designed for the telephone system.[0] The wiring specification of Ethernet is ANSI/TIA-568[2]. The only thing RJ45 has in common with Ethernet is that it used the same 8P8C-sized connector. But even then, RJ45 had a key notch on the side and Ethernet does not. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack#RJ45S https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack#RJ45S [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector#8P8C https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modular_connector#8P8C [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI/TIA-568 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI/TIA-568
- buttocks 2y agoThankfully, the blog’s comments section was still open so that you could pollute it with your smug pedantry.
- gumby 2y agoIt’s confusing. It’s a technical spec and the wrong use can be confusing, and can cause you to discover you have the wrong part at an inconvenient time. It’s a case where “size matters”. It used to be quite common to see a serial port wired in a B shell, sometimes with just three pins, making a DB-3. If you were making the point that I shouldn’t care if a bird were a raven or a crow in the background of a painting, sure, that would be pedantry (unless there were some important symbolism). But this is a simple case where a modicum of accuracy can make a big difference.
- psim1 2y agoApple themselves call the floppy connector a DB-19 (https://support.apple.com/en-me/112201 https://support.apple.com/en-me/112201). In this case, it would be better to use the "wrong" DB-19 term so that people seeking the referenced connector can find it.
- wannacboatmovie 2y agoIt's not "smug pedantry", it's literally correct.
- eesmith 2y agoAlready commented, on August 9th, 2016 at 7:23 am.
- JeremyHerrman 2y agoIn the comments Steve addresses this: "The DB-19 isn’t really a B shell and probably shouldn’t be called “DB” anything if you’re being precise about naming. Apple called it DB-19 in their documentation, though, and the name stuck."
- lpmay 2y agoI would never have guessed this configuration was so rare. D-sub connectors seem to have more active use in aerospace and defense that you might expect (Until I started working professionally, I always associated them with "old" computers, not high end stuff).
- quink 2y ago(2016)
- neilv 2y ago> but then I found an old mechanical drawing of a DB-25. I photoshopped that sucker, edited some key measurements, and that was what they used for the very expensive mold-making process. I'm glad that didn't result in five figures of group-buy money wasted.
- eternauta3k 2y agoThe article mentions prototyping, maybe they sent a connector for testing before making the Very Expensive Molds.
- neilv 2y agoIf you pay for a factory to make unique tooling like this, can you avoid them using the tooling for their own runs, to undercut you as the sole source for your target market (such as on Alibaba/Aliexpress)?
- s0rce 2y agoYou could ask them for the molds at the end or stipulate in the contract that they can't use them for anyone else, they might not abide by this or might not sign a contract requiring this but you can ask.
- analog31 2y agoI worked for a molding company long ago, and exclusivity for customer tooling was part of the standard agreement. I don't remember the verbiage.
- janekm 2y agoYes, but this scenario is a bit different. If you ask a connector factory to custom-make you a connector it's common that they are allowed to add it to their catalogue, though you can of course stipulate something else in the contract. You'll see this in the electronics markets in Shenzhen for example... they still have a lot of the connectors and switches from MP3 players, which I believe was one of the early boom industries in the region.
- echoangle 2y agoDid you work in china though? I don't want to make wrong assumptions but I think the intellectual property protections are taken a bit less serious there.
- analog31 2y agoIt was the 1990s and we were in the US.
- usefulcat 2y agoFor a large order this might be a concern, but for a smaller order (as it sounds like this one was) I would think it's unlikely to be worth their time to compete with you.
- qiqitori 2y agoI've always been wondering, could you build connectors like this by CNCing the metal parts and 3d-printing the insulation? (Maybe add in some metal bending, but maybe that could be done manually using hand tools?) In this case, there actually seems to be a market for thousands of these connectors, but for many other connectors the market is... a couple dozen or so. Note: I have very little knowledge in this field.
- upwardbound 2y agoYes you definitely can. Obviously you should buy the pins instead of CNCing pins, but for the complex geometry of the main connector body you can definitely CNC it. Example of the pins being sold on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/JRready-Terminal-Connector-205089-1-contacts30/dp/B09BZ789HJ https://www.amazon.com/JRready-Terminal-Connector-205089-1-c...
- lelanthran 2y agoIf not needed under 10 I'd make it manually like you say. For above 10 I'd make a jig to either cut and punch holes in 3mm plexiglass sheets, or a jig to quickly make cardboard moulds into which I'd place the pins and pour resin into. To me, either of the above is preferable to ordering 10k of them.
- ssl-3 2y agoIn the past, I've seen examples of D-shell connectors with molded all-plastic connectors. The most common example is perhaps the Atari 2600's molded female joystick connector, but I've also seen male iterations (usually on IDC connectors). Other than lack durability and lack of built-in shielding, I don't see any problem with the idea of 3D printing such a thing. With a decent resin printer, one should even be able to design it to use removable pins that just snap into place (which are things that are still made in factories every day).
- userbinator 2y agoAlmost 8 years later, I wonder if he's managed to sell the whole lot, and whether some obscure Chinese company has started making them again.
- ted_dunning 2y agoWell, IEC doesn't seem to have any 19 pin DB style connectors for sale (9, 15, 23 and 25 are available). So maybe he did sell them all.
- TonyTrapp 2y agoAccording to the comments under the article, this is the item: http://iec.net/product/d-style-male-solder-type-connector/ http://iec.net/product/d-style-male-solder-type-connector/ - so it still appears to be in stock.
- atombender 2y agoThe 19-pin is there (https://iec.net/product/d-style-male-solder-type-connector/ https://iec.net/product/d-style-male-solder-type-connector/), but the connector has a blue interior, which suggests it's a different source than OP? I suppose it could be a stock photo of a different version.
- tecleandor 2y agoWell, they just re-stocked their Mac Floppy Emulator, that uses one of those connectors, so I guess they still have a bunch of them :) https://shop.bigmessowires.com/products/floppy-emu-model-c-bundle https://shop.bigmessowires.com/products/floppy-emu-model-c-b...
- Frenchgeek 2y agohttps://www.bigmessowires.com/2018/05/10/10000-more-db-19-connectors/ https://www.bigmessowires.com/2018/05/10/10000-more-db-19-co...
- fragmede 2y agooh wow, 10,000 more in 2018, and that's only 2 years later than the article. there's probably been a couple more buys in the six years since!
- Suppafly 2y agoNow someone needs to do this for the 8 pin 'DIN' commodore connector. They seem impossible to find now other than from people who've already bought up all of them to make commodore video cables.
- rhubarbtse 2y agoMale 262 degrees 8 pin DIN connectors (for C64 video cables etc) are readily available from for example AliExpress. Couldn't find any female connectors (for the motherboard) though.
- Suppafly 2y agoThey seem readily available until you try to actually order them. Everywhere that sell electronic components has an entry for them still but has no actual stock.
- pezezin 2y agoIf I am not mistaken, it is the same connector as the one used by the Sega Megadrive 1, although with a different pinout. In principle, you should be able to get a Megadrive cable, cut it, and reorder the pins.
- mrweasel 2y agoI believe it's the same issue with the DB-23 connector on the Amiga. It's would be somewhat surprising if no one has done something similar for that connector. Then again, to build an entirely new Amiga you'd still need to harvest the custom chips and then you may very well be able to get the DB-23 connector as well.
- actionfromafar 2y agoIIRC you can build a completely new Amiga now, or very close to it. Plus there are FPGA Amigas, but that is another matter.
- 2y ago
- YZF 2y agoIf you just want a one-off you can try something I did way back to make my own HP48-SX connector. Get some pins that match. Solder or crimp wires onto them. Put the pins in the mating connector. Careful use of epoxy to make the "body" of the connector. Viola- your own custom connector.
- thsksbd 2y agoAt least on the GX, you could use the audio cable connector that connected (computer) CD drives to audio cards [1]. The fit is perfect You do gave to then splice that wire to a 9 serial. But thats not too hard and with some shrink tubing it'll look great. [1] I think the connector is a fairly standard part.in the 90s, though, we were flooded with those cables so the tutorials just had us use those
- banish-m4 2y agoSpecifically, a SCSI cdrom audio cable worked although I can't recall if ATA and SCSI cdrom drives has identical connectors or not. Perhaps the SCSI one tended to be white rectangle without a retention mechanism while the ATA one was one was black thinner, and longer, with a retention mechanism. 3 of the 4 wires (RX, TX, and GND) would then be soldered to a DB-9 female plug. https://www.hpcalc.org/contents/4741/48techni.pdf https://www.hpcalc.org/contents/4741/48techni.pdf
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- stuaxo 2y agoAh, very similar to what happened with 23 pin connectors for the Amiga, which have since been made again.
- jesprenj 2y agoWhat about the female connector? Did he also order it? Or are only male connectors needed/in shortage for some reason? Edit: there's some discussion about female counterparts in the comment section of the website.
- krs_ 2y agoNo there's still no new production of those, as mentioned in the comments. It's kind of a shame. You can adapt a DB-25M to fit a DB-19F by cutting some of the hood to size and removing the extra pins. It's not pretty but it works. That's not really possible to do with the female connector though.
- ano-ther 2y agoI am still amazed about how the internet enabled such small-scale production runs from the other side of the world.
- newswasboring 2y ago> I photoshopped that sucker, edited some key measurements, and that was what they used for the very expensive mold-making process. I work in manufacturing and this sentence made me feel so many feelings. Surprise that this worked, envy that this worked, remorse on how hard we try to make things precise AND THIS WORKED. Just so, so many feelings.
- boricj 2y agoWait until you see how computer programs are made.
- baq 2y ago'it compiles, ship it!' except we don't even compile programs anymore... (in the traditional sense, anyway; I try to look the other way when build engineering does dark magic with webpacks and esbuilds)
- fragmede 2y agoAt the point where JScrambler is implementing a VM in JavaScript to run the obfuscated code, I think it actually qualifies as being compiled. Which is unholy, but that's the world we live in.
- jollyllama 2y agoAssuming there was inaccuracy in the author's approach, some poor low-level guy probably noticed the flaws and took it upon himself to correct it.
- jes5199 2y agowhat do you think is likely to go wrong if you do it this way?
- bombela 2y agoAny measurement off by some small amount, and the connector won't insert, or be too tight or too loose. It is the equivalent of code that compiles and runs successfully at the first attempt. It is nice, and with experience easier to achieve. But it is still part lucky.
- chiffre01 2y agoIs 'mold' the right word here. Looking at the connectors, I would assume they are stamped out with a die or something similar.
- Milner08 2y agoThere is a plastic part in the middle to hold the pins which would need a mold. But you are correct that the outside would probably be formed with a die
- rkagerer 2y agoI miss how solid these connectors were once screwed in, compared to e.g. USB or HDMI* connections of today. (*once had an HDMI soften over time due to all the heat spewing out of the graphics card it plugged into, took a few cables before I found one that didn't want to melt)
- mrlonglong 2y agoNext life hack, resurrect the 3.5" floppy disk.
- samatman 2y agoReading along with great enjoyment, until I got to the part where the author is photoshopping and editing a component diagram of the D19 to get more manufactured. I think to myself, "how strange! even if the manufacturer isn't willing to pay for the standard, it's got to be worth it for the guy who's trying to get them built!" A small bit of Wikipedia browsing followed, in which I realized that I've been laboring under a decades-long misapprehension that the D in D-sub connectors stands for DIN. Nope, just the shape, and not a DIN, or ANSI, or ISO standard. Just de facto. Note that this isn't totally insane, there are in fact DIN connectors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector. Just so happens that D-sub connectors have nothing to do with them. Always more to learn...