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Cold brew coffee in 3 minutes using acoustic cavitation
- skrunch 2y agoQuick, someone let James Hoffman know!
- blkhawk 2y agoI was just about to suggest he same thing
- rolivercoffee 2y agoDon't worry he's way ahead of us: https://youtu.be/2meeYcxXoVs https://youtu.be/2meeYcxXoVs
- brotchie 2y agoCoffee fracking IRL
- doodlebugging 2y agoGet yourself fracffiened.
- simondw 2y agoAh yes, with a delicious frackuccino.
- papertokyo 2y agoI'll have two frack whites to go thanks.
- eps 2y agoWas going to crack some joke about their work, but then realized that this tech is absolutely monetizible. Hook it up to, say, Nespresso marketing machine and this will sell like hotcakes.
- seanhunter 2y agoThis is awesome in an overengineered way, but if you want to make cold brew the normal way it's very easy. Basically you make it using a cafetière/French press/Bodum[1] using cold tap water in the fridge overnight (probably put some cling film over it), then press it and run it through a drip filter. The secret (if there is one) is to use fine ground coffee like you would use for an espresso rather than coarse ground (like you would use for a normal drip coffee or French press). It's very easy and very lovely. Just don't skimp on coffee. More detailed recipe here https://www.uncarved.com/articles/cold-brew/ https://www.uncarved.com/articles/cold-brew/ [1] UK/US/French name but you know the thing with the plunger
- arijun 2y agoIf you use a French press for cold brew, be aware that the harder you press, the more bitter it will come out. I use a $5 nut milk bag instead, it lets me brew way more at once; I do 1/4 kilo grounds with 2 liters of water. It also has the benefit of reducing cafestol, which makes it healthier, according to some.
- senkora 2y ago> It also has the benefit of reducing cafestol, which makes it healthier, according to some. I often filter my french press cold brew after-the-fact with a paper filter to achieve this.
- base698 2y agoIsn't the paper filter supposed to strip flavorful oils? Which negates using a French press?
- senkora 2y agoProbably. To be honest I just find it convenient to use a French press as a cold brew maker and first-pass filter, because it is IMO easier to keep clean than a nut milk bag or coffee sock.
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- anfractuosity 2y agoInteresting, I wonder how that would compare to recirculating water through the coffee grounds through a filter. It does say the ultrasound generates 'micro-jets with enough force to pit and fracture the coffee grounds', so I assume that the ultrasound would work better? There also seems research in using ultrasound in artificial ageing of whisky/spirits.
- bethekind 2y agoA YouTuber calls thought emporium tried out the whiskey method And yes, ultrasonic cavitation will break apart the grounds very thoroughly. Think a jewelry or denture cleaner.
- xkcd-sucks 2y agoIt's really just a matter of mindset -- Many things go faster if you chuck them into a microwave or a sonicator :) I'm definitely going to try this out with cold brew in a cheapie bath sonicator. The thing here is like a big ass probe sonicator butted up against an espresso portafilter which is probably a bit louder than a loud steamer
- showerst 2y agoThis is incredibly cool and I want to go build one, though it feels like that cutaway model of injecting the ultrasound from the side would lead to very uneven extraction. I also chuckled at graf about doubling the caffeine content, as if that's necessarily a good thing =). Those cheap HC-SR04 ultrasonic modules output at 40kHz, so maybe this is home-brewable.
- htrp 2y agoI think the idea is that the vibration transmits through the entire filter. The question is whether it's geometry/frequency specific
- sharpshadow 2y agoIt’s likly not specific one could reduce the cold brewing time by shaking the jar.
- floatrock 2y agoThe embedded youtube video at 0:58 shows a laptop screen with some pretty fancy-looking simulation jiggles and heatmaps on what looks like an espresso filter. It also looks like a PDF of a paper, so presumably they have a paper that talks about the geometry/frequency interactions.
- eichin 2y agoThe article includes a link to the paper, which has simulation models of the acoustics, showing pressure levels and areas where cavitation can occur. (I didn't see anything about heating from dissipating the acoustic energy, though?)
- naltroc 2y agoTwo of my favorite things, cold brew and acoustics :D
- peteforde 2y agoFunny thing is that I'm currently drinking cold brew that I prepared on my acoustic cavitation brewer. It's called Osma Pro. The company that made it sadly did not survive, and they took a lot of heat (no pun initially intended) for the price point and various complaints about how it worked. https://www.engadget.com/osma-pro-cold-brew-coffee-machine-review-131552500.html https://www.engadget.com/osma-pro-cold-brew-coffee-machine-r... Luckily, mine works great and I like it a lot. I use it every morning. Takeaway point: maybe Google your idea to see if other people have also had it before describing it as new.
- triceratops 2y ago> The system connects a bolt-clamped transducer with the brewing basket via a metallic horn – transforming a standard espresso filter basket into a powerful ultrasonic reactor. Now it can be done without shelling out $695 for a dedicated machine. That's progress. I wouldn't be so dismissive.
- iancmceachern 2y agoBut you have to shell out $10k for a commercial ultrasonic welder from Branson, etc. Just the horn they show in the paper probably cost $6k to make. I wouldn't be too dismissive.
- daniel_reetz 2y agoAlso it will be punishing for pets and MEMs microphones.
- triceratops 2y agoIt's a prototype.
- fallat 2y agoWhat? I went on Aliexpress and found a 40KHz transducer for $40. You can 3D print the attachment, can't you?
- throwaway482945 2y agoIs their approach different from this one from 5 years ago? https://youtu.be/cO6-SL3bMZg?si=_pVdOLNdej2pjDnT https://youtu.be/cO6-SL3bMZg?si=_pVdOLNdej2pjDnT
- dahart 2y agoRecently I discovered that many coffee shops, maybe half in my sampling of a couple dozen in different cities, are selling cold coffee (brewed hot, then refrigerated) under the name cold brew, and even the ones that actually cold-brew them seem to be under the impression that it needs to be served cold. I was laughed at in one hipster joint for asking for a steamed or warmed cold-brew, and another one initially refused my request to warm it up saying that would make the coffee extremely sour. (It didn’t) Oh, and at least one other, maybe two, said they couldn’t warm cold brew (in view of both a steamer and microwave) or would have to charge extra (while someone’s cheaper latte was being steamed). Reading the paper, it’s not clear whether their cold brew has lower acidity (higher pH) than the same coffee hot brewed. It does say that the sonic-brew has the same pH as the normal long-steep cold brew. I’m also curious if this cavitation/sonication brewing process is basically agitating the coffee, or doing something different, and how different it is from manually agitating a cold brew compared to letting it sit still for hours.
- sharpshadow 2y agoI think they mentioned that cold brew has lower acidity than hot brew. Yes it’s agitation with the mentioned frequency. Technically it should move the grounded coffee particles back and worth and so extracting the components.
- dahart 2y agoYes, they mentioned that cold brew has a reputation for being lower acidity than hot brew, but they didn’t measure the pH of the coffee they were testing using a hot brew process. They reported the pH of the normal cold brew and sonicated cold brew as both about 5.1. For frequency, does it matter if it’s high or low frequency? I’m wondering if I can shake my cold brew for 3 minutes and get close to the same effect.
- sharpshadow 2y agoYes hot brew coffee has more acidity tan cold brew. I like hand filter coffee and I use water around 90 degree Celsius. The higher I go with to boiling water the more it washes out bitter and acidic components.
- blincoln 2y agoI'm disappointed that their test didn't include a comparison to traditional drip coffee made using the same beans, then chilled to match the temperature of the cold brew. I haven't looked into ultrasonic cavitation in years, but since it can produce enough heat and light to make some people wonder if it was a form of nuclear fusion back in the early 2000s, I feel like maybe it's affecting the flavour of the coffee at least as much as using hot water would.
- _akhe 2y agoInteresting, microwaving with sound
- eschneider 2y agoTechnically interesting and possibly useful at an industrial scale, but I think I'll stick to my moka pot/french press setups. Both are good enough and easy enough for me.
- eezurr 2y agoI discovered you can mix Nestle instant coffee with cold (charcoal filtered) water and it dissolves fine. Somehow the added sugar easily dissolves too. I also add heavy cream It actually tastes pretty good. Most of the acrid taste from (hot) instant isnt there
- triceratops 2y agoBut then you miss out on the self-flagellation aspect of drinking instant.
- all2 2y agoYou can no longer mutter to your coworkers I just need the caffeine as you add the 5th scoop of instant to your Styrofoam cup of hot water.
- MisterBastahrd 2y agoAnyone ever tried dumping coffee grinds and water into an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner?
- bethekind 2y agoWattage might not be high enough to notice a difference, but might be fun
- MisterBastahrd 2y agoSo I looked at Amazon for products. There's an ultrasonic brewer that is used for both cold brew coffee and also for rapid infusion of spirits with charred barrel staves. There's also a stir plate / french press combo for sale that apparently does fine cold brew in 20 minutes.
- monkayMan 2y agoI enjoy a good cold brew but it’s been a rare occurrence. It usually has a stale taste I assume is due to oxidation. I can see coffee shops using acoustic cavitation to make fresh batches throughout the day instead of one big overnight batch!
- pain_perdu 2y agoThe longtime CEO/President of Starbucks recently invested in a Cold Brew startup called Cumulus which makes instead coldbrew via a $600 countertop machine. https://dailycoffeenews.com/2023/11/16/howard-schultz-part-of-20-3-million-seed-for-pod-based-cold-coffee-startup-cumulus/ https://dailycoffeenews.com/2023/11/16/howard-schultz-part-o...
- jerlam 2y agoThe machine uses single-serve, single-use aluminum pods, which along with the machines are expected to be available next summer. Of course, it's an attempt to be the next Keurig/Nespresso.
- hardwaregeek 2y agoThis is a neat idea, since cold brew has a common criticism of an oxidized flavor due to its long steep time. A shorter steep could get you the smooth flavor without the oxidation
- gruez 2y agoWouldn't it be cheaper to brew the coffee in a sealed/vacuum chamber instead? Whatever machine they're using to generate "acoustic cavitation" doesn't sound cheap.
- quarkw 2y agoThat was my first thought. It seems like others have already tried it with good results. https://old.reddit.com/r/coldbrew/comments/ob0gzg/cold_brew_in_vacuum_chamber/ https://old.reddit.com/r/coldbrew/comments/ob0gzg/cold_brew_... You can also sous vide coldbrew coffee for faster results than traditional coldbrew. But at that point is it still technically coldbrew? Maybe warmbrew is a better term for it.
- antonchekhov 2y agoNew startup idea: manufacture a hard-plastic spiky attachment, shaped like a tubular hair-brush that I can simply screw onto the base of my Sonicare toothbrush, then stand upside down into the brewing carafe of my Oxo cold-brew setup. The Sonicare's built-in 2 minute timer may have to be activated twice, for a full brew.
- beefman 2y agoA few years ago there was a crowdfunded instant cold brew machine based on acoustic cavitation called Osma.[1] I don't think it's still in production. I met the founder during testing at Chromatic Coffee in San Jose, and took delivery of one of the first units. Cool concept, but it didn't work very well [1] https://www.engadget.com/osma-pro-cold-brew-coffee-machine-review-131552500.html https://www.engadget.com/osma-pro-cold-brew-coffee-machine-r...
- surfingdino 2y agoJames Hoffman's video on the subject incoming in 3... 2... 1... can't wait :-)
- anon84873628 2y agoHe's already spoken many times about cold brew. including his preference for iced filter as opposed to true cold brew. which may have contributed to the exasperation expressed in the current top comment. Maybe the Coffee Lit Review podcast will cover this, but honestly it's not that interesting. Cavitation has already been done many times.
- knicholes 2y agoDoes anyone know what make this better than just stirring for three minutes?
- eichin 2y agoThe paper lists many things they tested for, but the fascinating one is that the coffee oils and water get emulsified which isn't going to happen with any level of stirring below "purée" :-)
- thsksbd 2y agoI'm guessing few on this board have heard an uktrasonicator in action. I just showed to article to my mate, and he enthusiastically said we'll brew some... as soon as we leave the lab to break for lunch
- askvictor 2y ago> heard an uktrasonicator Is this a joke?
- papertokyo 2y agoNo. These machines sound like robot hornets operating dental drills.
- askvictor 2y agoI thought ultra sonic was defined as being above the sonic range of humans. Genuine question: why would an ultrasonic noise generator create sound audible frequencies? Can it not provide enough power without doing so?
- thsksbd 2y agoUltrasonicators for the purpose of cavitation research are insanely powerful and non linear material response cause all sorts of vibrational modes to boom. Its unpleasant.
- bastardoperator 2y agoWhatever they're holding up in that picture, it looks more like iced tea versus cold brew coffee.
- maherbeg 2y agoHuh, I'd love to taste a sample. This would be such a nice extension to an existing Espresso setup!
- dukeofdoom 2y agoThey should add led lights and ultrasonic vibration to the cup for a futuristic cyber punk style presentation.
- greentxt 2y agoGuess this proves Havana Syndrome is real after all.
- lacrosse_tannin 2y agoIn the picture, it looks like they're posing with some refreshing sun-tea. Maybe they should try 4 minutes.
- ugh123 2y agoHere's my iced coffee prep for those who like it strong with a bite: Prepare a "lungo" via espresso by brewing through twice (or more) as much water through a single espresso puck. Don't do this over ice. Put the cup in the freezer. Depends on the cup (I use ceramic) but should be close to room temperature or slightly cold after about 30 minutes. Now pour over ice. Can also do this over night for larger brews in the fridge (non freezer). This is as close as I could get to a Starbucks iced coffee that isn't watered down and still has bite.
- LargoLasskhyfv 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonication How will cats feel about that high-pitched noise?
- cwillu 2y agoThe Doctor: It's sonic, okay, let's leave it at that. Captain Jack Harkness: Disruptor? Cannon? What? The Doctor: It's sonic, totally sonic. I am sonicked *up*! Captain Jack Harkness: [yelling] A sonic *what*? The Doctor: [yelling] *Coffee maker*!
- m463 2y ago> sonicated I sense a new term making its way into coffee marketeering...
- avidphantasm 2y agoFirst they should teach Australian baristas what iced coffee is.
- eichin 2y agoOoh an excuse to upgrade some homelab equipment :-) (My preferred "weird" coffee is sous-vide: 125g/liter, 2h @ 150f - so you don't leave as much flavor "on the table", but by not getting near boiling you leave more of the bitter compounds behind. Refrigerated but served iced or warmed with boiling water, to taste.)
- manishsharan 2y agoI would like to try this. Are you using ice cubes to vacuum seal or do you have some fancy gadget that I must have ! We need Lance Hendricks or James Hoffman to do experiments and determine the best temperature.
- eichin 2y agoOh, even simpler: cheap sous-vide circulator and rubbermaid "tank" for the outer water bath, tall glass pitcher for the actual coffee, cotton "tea sock" to hold (and filter) the ground coffee in the pitcher. Most of the complication is that it needs to weigh enough (or be braced) so that all of the coffee is submerged, without the pitcher starting to float... and if the pitcher has a neck make sure that the coffee absorbing water and swelling doesn't get stuck inside the pitcher...
- 0xbadcafebee 2y agoSo, to simplify, we could take a large mason jar and attach to the bottom a magnet and wire coil attached to a power source, and just pump sound waves into a glass jar of water and coffee grounds. Effectively it's a speaker that holds coffee. Should have the same effect
- eternauta3k 2y agoIf the cavitation really is important then no, it won't have the same effect. But maybe the cavitation is not important! Try it out and report back.
- kjkjadksj 2y agoBuy an ultrasonic cleaner off the shelf and just decant the grounds out of the coffee when you are done
- nefrix 2y agoFinally, the scientists discovered a life changing thing.
- spython 2y agoOr you could use a (quite affordable) ultrasonic machine designed for gentle cleaning of jewelry, dentures, glasses.. I've used one to extract fragrance from biological material for an artistic project[0], and it worked really well. Instead of having to wait for a few weeks for a tincture to finish, you put the same tincture (alcohol and material you want to extract fragrance from) into a plastic bag for just 15 minutes. Sure, it smells not quite the same, but the speed is often worth it. I've even heard about some guy trying to turn vodka into whiskey with an ultrasonic machine and wood chips. There are quite a few ultrasonic machines on the market. I've tried EMAG and multiple Chinese no-name machines that are just as powerful but cheaper. Sadly the no-name machines are quite a bit louder - you can't stay in the same room while it's running basically. Still, they all work well for this kind of fast and dirty extraction. [0] https://rybakov.com/blog/smelling_cz/ https://rybakov.com/blog/smelling_cz/
- 19f191ty 2y agoThis is what I was thinking. If it's mostly fine scale mechanical agitation one is after then there are many ways to do it. An ultrasonic cleaning machine being the closest in spirit to their approach.
- cabirum 2y agoSearch for "portable ultrasonic washing machine" on Amazon/Aliexpress, looks like a hockey puck you drop into a bucket with water and clothes. Looks like the principle of operation is the same, just add a coffee filter.
- acc_297 2y agounfortunate that the acoustic cavitation frequency is just barely within the range some dogs can still perceive
- Spaced-Oddity 2y agoNot to be that guy, but this works with room temperature water if you stir it for a minute as well. No need for "acoustic cavitation" for this to work. The inventor of the aeropress shared this tip. Here's his recipe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUD6HxDnlwI&t=56s&ab_channel=EuropeanCoffeeTrip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUD6HxDnlwI&t=56s&ab_channel...
- huhuhu111 2y ago[dead]
- mianos 2y ago"Ultrasounds can be applied to several areas across the food industry including drying, extraction, emulsification and crystallisation – making the process faster and more efficient.", .. I think they have the tense wrong. It should read "Ultrasounds are now commonly applied .." People have been doing this sort of thing for years. I have an ultrasonic tub for extracting flavours into ethanol. I didn't invent it, people were talking about it years ago on the forums on this stuff. Maybe they don't have internet over there at UNSW. They can come over and borrow mine for a bit of a search. I am just a few ks away. Or go to that internet cafe in Kensington in the next block.
- papertokyo 2y agoThe innovation here is integrating the tech into a home espresso machine package. I do wonder if the sound is any less awful though. Does the ultrasonic tub enable better extraction at lower proof or are you using it purely to speed up the maceration process?
- mianos 2y agoThe ultrasonic tub, (Vevor LOL, like everyone else gets for their bike parts), speeds up the process, specially oak shards. For comparison, I also have a Soxhlet apparatus. As the extraction is boiled in the bottom with the recycling solvent it does not make the best flavours but it's the fastest way to get stuff like cinnamon. Between a longer time, soxhlet and ultrasonic, the ultrasonic gives flavours as smooth as a longer time without the wait. (The ultrasonic bath heating up is still a problem so I have to cycle it). Time beats both. I think a short path soxhlet maybe be as good. My setup is a bit fragile for a good vacuum though.
- shirro 2y agoWake up yourself and all the dogs in the neighborhood at the same time. I want one. I went through the obligatory Australian fascination with espresso and am well over it. It is a load of fetishistic bs and scalding hot coffee is disgusting. I buy bottles of cold brew from a local roaster and avoid the hassle.
- klysm 2y agoUltrasonics seems like a heavily underused technology based on the little I know about it. Piezo elements are cheap too and you can get a lot done with them
- 01100011 2y agoHmm.. I didn't think to try my ultrasonic machine. Last time I made cold brew and got impatient, I just warmed it up to around 100F and put the whole thing in my vacuum chamber for a bit. Seemed to speed things up but I don't know. I don't brew enough to have a recent comparison. The result is pretty great though.
- conchy 2y agoAs someone who makes cold brew every day, this is one of the two approaches I've considered to speed things up, the other being one of those magnetic stirrers they have in chemistry lab. However, after careful consideration, the real low-hanging-fruit here is the time it takes to grind the coffee, load it, fill the water, clean the filter, and rinse the jar. If a cold brew machine could automate these steps (like some hot coffee machines do) you wouldn't care about making a cup in 3 minutes because you'd always have an automatic jar ready for you from 24 hours ago.
- senderista 2y agoOur espresso machine has been on the fritz for a while, but I barely miss it after discovering that a few oz. of TJ's cold brew with a splash of milk in the microwave for 30s is practically as good. I think warmed-up cold brew is one of my favorite life hacks.
- vletal 2y agoCan I just take an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner and fill it with water and ground coffee?
- nottorp 2y agoWhy 3 minutes? Fancy ways of brewing coffee bring more value via their ritualistic part than via the final product. Same for smoking a pipe, it's the filling up and cleaning that matters. If you want speed, get a fully automatic machine. Ideally with a timer so your coffee is ready when you wake up.
- dr_kiszonka 2y agoThis is about cold brew, which takes 12-24 hours.
- nottorp 2y agoYeah so you not only get to set it up, but also check on it a couple times during the day :)
- qwerty456127 2y agoYou can also make reasonable (not excellent, not terrible) brandy this way by putting vodka and oak wood shavings of a suitable kind into an ultrasound machine.
- robocop_legacy 2y agoI think it would be similar to an aged whiskey, perhaps. Brandy is distilled from wine. Bourbon is primarily from a corn mash, so maybe with the right vodka.
- qwerty456127 2y agoYes, I think you're right.
- ngcc_hk 2y agoTea as well, said the post.
- mattmaroon 2y agoIt’s strange that they write this like it’s some new discovery when modernist chefs have known this for years and even developed “sonicators” for commercial use.
- timka 2y agoHm, I wonder if a ultrasonic nebulizer can be used for that.