5 ms·

To a first approximation, if you express a strong opinion about politics (particularly in these times), no matter which side you align with, you're going to ali

To a first approximation, if you express a strong opinion about politics (particularly in these times), no matter which side you align with, you're going to alienate about half your customers, so it's always seemed like bad business sense to do so. That said, electric cars themselves are not strictly politically neutral these days; they've (rather sadly if you ask me) become associated with political identity, and Musk has aligned himself in the stupidest way with the political tribe that sees them as antithetical to its values. I believe this was more tenable when Teslas were seen as more luxury cars than green cars, but the proliferation of cheaper Model 3s seems to have brought them down to Earth. Also, although I would never own one, I truly enjoy seeing Cybertrucks out in the world; they're so novel and iconoclastic and have character that so lacks in modern mass-manufactured vehicles, but it looks like they might also be a sucking wound on the company.

cbeach 3y ago
God forbid a CEO would express his sincerely-held beliefs. All my favourite CEOs inauthentically mirror the perceived beliefs of their customers in order to sell more products.
- fnordian_slip 3y ago
  I think part of it is that many of those beliefs are so stupid, they taint whoever holds them. Not all beliefs are created equal, so to speak. Also, other CEOs who might share those beliefs are at least intelligent / savvy enough not to voice them openly. Being so stupid or arrogant that you would proudly display those beliefs is seen almost as worse by many, so he doesn't do himself any favours with that.
- silverquiet 3y ago
  If Musk is sincere in his tweeting then he has the politics of a 14-year old Reddit Troll (and I would know having been guilty of such behavior myself). There are much better ways to persuade people of your righteousness than posting memes where women are flashing their vaginas at monks in order to tempt them, but of course that takes actual work and lacks the dopamine hit that comes from such subversiveness. And again, I say this as someone who appreciates the occasional 420/69 numerology or naming your car models "S", "3" (E), and "X". To me that's playful, but he's taken it far beyond that and into something much darker.
- pupppet 3y ago
  Except some beliefs are objectively stupid.
  - andsoitis 3y ago
    > Except some beliefs are objectively stupid. I agree. However, hoi polloi don't evaluate others based on the objective validity of their beliefs, but rather whether they share the same beliefs, however stupid.
  - menacingly 3y ago
    you're never going to believe this, but the other side feels the same way
    - suzzer99 3y ago
      While this is true, it doesn't preclude one side being completely unhinged from reality.
    - marcosdumay 3y ago
      Well, there aren't 2 opposing sides, and that feeling doesn't change the fact that some beliefs are indeed stupid.
    - ahahahahah 3y ago
      Well yeah, I think their beliefs are stupid. It would not surprise me at all that they hold other stupid beliefs. Like, I believe flat earth beliefs are stupid. Do people that hold them believe my beliefs in that area are stupid? maybe, but I'm pretty comfortable with that.
    - archagon 3y ago
      In a scenario where there is a normal side and a stupid side, both sides will also feel that the other side is stupid. So this means absolutely nothing.
- maxerickson 3y ago
  Why do you have favorite CEOs? That seems like a weird hobby.
  - someguydave 3y ago
    I think the implication is that many are on this forum have a “least-favourite CEO hobby” and are very proud of it.
    - r00fus 3y ago
      There are hundreds of competing CEOs for that title in my book. Musk isn't even at that top of that list.
      - leereeves 3y ago
        A lot of people on HN are obsessed with Musk though. There's a post about him every day here.
    - TheCleric 3y ago
      Hey, my list is just all of them tied for last until proven otherwise.
  - Solvency 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - EasyMark 3y ago
      leave reeboks out of this they ain't gone and hurt nobody
  - barryrandall 3y ago
    Having opinions is weird.
  - jimbokun 3y ago
    Sounds like sarcasm to me.
- renegade-otter 3y ago
  Tesla customers are the "liberal coastal woke elites" Musk hates so much. What is he mirroring exactly that they would appreciate? It's the complete opposite of what you said.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- ulfw 3y ago
  I buy a company's products. Not a CEO's. CEOs just have to keep their mouths shut and all is well if their products are good. Hell, how many people do you think even know who the CEO of KIA is? Or of BMW? Or of Honda? Or of Stellantis? Right. Elon dug his own grave by having severe narcissistic personality disorder, always need to be front and centre of the daily discourse and happens to show his real right wing face now. A face that is anthesis to his customer base.
  - cbeach 3y ago
    I'm his customer base. I have solar panels on my roof and a Tesla on my drive. And I LOVE that Musk defends freedom of expression. I LOVE that he defends free market economics and border control. I assure you I am MORE likely to buy a Tesla because of Musk. We can do better than pigeonhole all EV customers into a single political tribe.
    - Solvency 3y ago
      it's wild watching you worship musk relentlessly on him comment after comment. you LOVE him. we get it.
      - blitzar 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - dang 3y ago
        Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. We ban accounts that post like this, so I need to ask you to stop. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - silverquiet 3y ago
      Wouldn't a free market for labor eschew any kind of border control? What do you think Musk cares most about - the nationality of the workers who assemble a Tesla, or the cost of their labor?
- klyrs 3y ago
  God forbid we judge a man on the content of his character.
- marcosdumay 3y ago
  Smart CEOs aren't on the news all the time nor use the hatespreading engines they buy on themselves. But the not-smart ones are so entertaining that I can support them!
  - Gud 3y ago
    I mean, the man we are talking about have come to dominate two notoriously difficult industries by revolutionising both. Wouldn’t Elon Musk be the definition of “smart CEO”? Considering his track record?
- tarsinge 3y ago
  Sincerely-held beliefs? Have we seen the same twitter posts? For me these look like drug fueled ramblings.
- yumraj 3y ago
  > God forbid a CEO would express his sincerely-held beliefs. Express to who? Who do you express your sincerely-held beliefs to? To your friends and family or do you often get on a soapbox/roof-top/social media platform and just start yelling? Musk’s been doing the latter, and CEO or not, it comes with consequences that are directly proportional to the size of the megaphone.
EasyMark 3y ago
He would have just been so much better off for his own mental health as a techno optimist rather than this spiral into psychosis and imagined harms inflicted on him. He really should have sprung for therapy rather than for xitter.
- leereeves 3y ago
  This whole discussion is assuming Musk is the problem and somehow caused these layoffs. But all of the "big three" US automakers have laid off thousands of workers in the last few months. Tech companies have laid off hundreds of thousands. Tesla is both, so isn't it likely that they're dealing with the same forces that caused layoffs at other companies? This discussion seems like several people with pre-existing (and oft-repeated here) grievances twisting evidence to fit their theories instead of forming theories based on the facts. --- (Another fact to consider: in addition to the widespread layoffs already mentioned, there's also growing competition from hybrid makers. US automakers race to build more hybrids as EV sales slow https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-automakers-race-build-more-hybrids-ev-sales-slow-2024-03-15/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-aut... )
  - panarky 3y ago
    >> I refuse to buy a Tesla > assuming Musk is the problem The answer, of course, is "all of the above". Yes, Tesla is subject to the same forces as other car companies. On top of that, some percentage of potential customers refuse to buy Teslas because Musk personally tainted the brand. And that second factor could easily explain the difference between a 5% drop in shipments and their actual 13% drop YoY.
  - advael 3y ago
    It seems like most of those layoffs are a rather cynical ploy to create a temporary stock boost and pay for a buyback, maybe with some labor market manipulation (specifically, scaring developers into accepting lower wages, not unionizing, and not demanding remote work) getting done along the way. Tesla, like many tech companies and auto manufacturers, but also like most American businesses, essentially drives its decision-making around some complicated financial game the plutocrats are playing with stocks, increasingly to the detriment of anything us mere mortals can comprehend like making and/or selling goods and/or services
pseudosavant 3y ago
I must admit I enjoy seeing Cybertrucks in the wild. They are fugly, but not as fugly in-person as I expected. Putting the development resources into a cheaper Model 2 would almost certainly been a better investment for the company though. Cybertrucks will never sell in enough volume to affect Tesla's bottom line positively.
- borkyborkbork 3y ago
  The secret to their success is to build and test new tech in a low volume high cost vehicled then take that knowledge and build cheaper. Model S/X -> Model 3/Y. With that info, you can easily forecast that the tech they are testing in the Cybertruk will be the foundation for the 25k car.
chipdart 3y ago
> To a first approximation, if you express a strong opinion about politics (particularly in these times), no matter which side you align with, you're going to alienate about half your customers, so it's always seemed like bad business sense to do so. There's a basic principle as old as time which goes something like "never discuss politics, religion, and sports with co-workers". The reasons are obvious. What kind of absolute moron is going to assume the public face of a few fragile companies and insist on making broad gratuitous ignorant public statements on each and every single one of these topics, sometimes bundling a bunch of them together?
- gota 3y ago
  Surely its politics, religion and sex(uality)? Sports is the go to watercooler topic after weather

cbeach 3y ago

God forbid a CEO would express his sincerely-held beliefs. All my favourite CEOs inauthentically mirror the perceived beliefs of their customers in order to sell more products.

fnordian_slip 3y ago
I think part of it is that many of those beliefs are so stupid, they taint whoever holds them. Not all beliefs are created equal, so to speak. Also, other CEOs who might share those beliefs are at least intelligent / savvy enough not to voice them openly. Being so stupid or arrogant that you would proudly display those beliefs is seen almost as worse by many, so he doesn't do himself any favours with that.
silverquiet 3y ago
If Musk is sincere in his tweeting then he has the politics of a 14-year old Reddit Troll (and I would know having been guilty of such behavior myself). There are much better ways to persuade people of your righteousness than posting memes where women are flashing their vaginas at monks in order to tempt them, but of course that takes actual work and lacks the dopamine hit that comes from such subversiveness. And again, I say this as someone who appreciates the occasional 420/69 numerology or naming your car models "S", "3" (E), and "X". To me that's playful, but he's taken it far beyond that and into something much darker.
pupppet 3y ago
Except some beliefs are objectively stupid.
- andsoitis 3y ago
  > Except some beliefs are objectively stupid. I agree. However, hoi polloi don't evaluate others based on the objective validity of their beliefs, but rather whether they share the same beliefs, however stupid.
- menacingly 3y ago
  you're never going to believe this, but the other side feels the same way
  - suzzer99 3y ago
    While this is true, it doesn't preclude one side being completely unhinged from reality.
  - marcosdumay 3y ago
    Well, there aren't 2 opposing sides, and that feeling doesn't change the fact that some beliefs are indeed stupid.
  - ahahahahah 3y ago
    Well yeah, I think their beliefs are stupid. It would not surprise me at all that they hold other stupid beliefs. Like, I believe flat earth beliefs are stupid. Do people that hold them believe my beliefs in that area are stupid? maybe, but I'm pretty comfortable with that.
  - archagon 3y ago
    In a scenario where there is a normal side and a stupid side, both sides will also feel that the other side is stupid. So this means absolutely nothing.
maxerickson 3y ago
Why do you have favorite CEOs? That seems like a weird hobby.
- someguydave 3y ago
  I think the implication is that many are on this forum have a “least-favourite CEO hobby” and are very proud of it.
  - r00fus 3y ago
    There are hundreds of competing CEOs for that title in my book. Musk isn't even at that top of that list.
    - leereeves 3y ago
      A lot of people on HN are obsessed with Musk though. There's a post about him every day here.
  - TheCleric 3y ago
    Hey, my list is just all of them tied for last until proven otherwise.
- Solvency 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - EasyMark 3y ago
    leave reeboks out of this they ain't gone and hurt nobody
- barryrandall 3y ago
  Having opinions is weird.
- jimbokun 3y ago
  Sounds like sarcasm to me.
renegade-otter 3y ago
Tesla customers are the "liberal coastal woke elites" Musk hates so much. What is he mirroring exactly that they would appreciate? It's the complete opposite of what you said.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
ulfw 3y ago
I buy a company's products. Not a CEO's. CEOs just have to keep their mouths shut and all is well if their products are good. Hell, how many people do you think even know who the CEO of KIA is? Or of BMW? Or of Honda? Or of Stellantis? Right. Elon dug his own grave by having severe narcissistic personality disorder, always need to be front and centre of the daily discourse and happens to show his real right wing face now. A face that is anthesis to his customer base.
- cbeach 3y ago
  I'm his customer base. I have solar panels on my roof and a Tesla on my drive. And I LOVE that Musk defends freedom of expression. I LOVE that he defends free market economics and border control. I assure you I am MORE likely to buy a Tesla because of Musk. We can do better than pigeonhole all EV customers into a single political tribe.
  - Solvency 3y ago
    it's wild watching you worship musk relentlessly on him comment after comment. you LOVE him. we get it.
    - blitzar 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - dang 3y ago
      Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. We ban accounts that post like this, so I need to ask you to stop. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - silverquiet 3y ago
    Wouldn't a free market for labor eschew any kind of border control? What do you think Musk cares most about - the nationality of the workers who assemble a Tesla, or the cost of their labor?
klyrs 3y ago
God forbid we judge a man on the content of his character.
marcosdumay 3y ago
Smart CEOs aren't on the news all the time nor use the hatespreading engines they buy on themselves. But the not-smart ones are so entertaining that I can support them!
- Gud 3y ago
  I mean, the man we are talking about have come to dominate two notoriously difficult industries by revolutionising both. Wouldn’t Elon Musk be the definition of “smart CEO”? Considering his track record?
tarsinge 3y ago
Sincerely-held beliefs? Have we seen the same twitter posts? For me these look like drug fueled ramblings.
yumraj 3y ago
> God forbid a CEO would express his sincerely-held beliefs. Express to who? Who do you express your sincerely-held beliefs to? To your friends and family or do you often get on a soapbox/roof-top/social media platform and just start yelling? Musk’s been doing the latter, and CEO or not, it comes with consequences that are directly proportional to the size of the megaphone.

EasyMark 3y ago

He would have just been so much better off for his own mental health as a techno optimist rather than this spiral into psychosis and imagined harms inflicted on him. He really should have sprung for therapy rather than for xitter.

leereeves 3y ago
This whole discussion is assuming Musk is the problem and somehow caused these layoffs. But all of the "big three" US automakers have laid off thousands of workers in the last few months. Tech companies have laid off hundreds of thousands. Tesla is both, so isn't it likely that they're dealing with the same forces that caused layoffs at other companies? This discussion seems like several people with pre-existing (and oft-repeated here) grievances twisting evidence to fit their theories instead of forming theories based on the facts. --- (Another fact to consider: in addition to the widespread layoffs already mentioned, there's also growing competition from hybrid makers. US automakers race to build more hybrids as EV sales slow https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-automakers-race-build-more-hybrids-ev-sales-slow-2024-03-15/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/us-aut... )
- panarky 3y ago
  >> I refuse to buy a Tesla > assuming Musk is the problem The answer, of course, is "all of the above". Yes, Tesla is subject to the same forces as other car companies. On top of that, some percentage of potential customers refuse to buy Teslas because Musk personally tainted the brand. And that second factor could easily explain the difference between a 5% drop in shipments and their actual 13% drop YoY.
- advael 3y ago
  It seems like most of those layoffs are a rather cynical ploy to create a temporary stock boost and pay for a buyback, maybe with some labor market manipulation (specifically, scaring developers into accepting lower wages, not unionizing, and not demanding remote work) getting done along the way. Tesla, like many tech companies and auto manufacturers, but also like most American businesses, essentially drives its decision-making around some complicated financial game the plutocrats are playing with stocks, increasingly to the detriment of anything us mere mortals can comprehend like making and/or selling goods and/or services

pseudosavant 3y ago

I must admit I enjoy seeing Cybertrucks in the wild. They are fugly, but not as fugly in-person as I expected. Putting the development resources into a cheaper Model 2 would almost certainly been a better investment for the company though. Cybertrucks will never sell in enough volume to affect Tesla's bottom line positively.

borkyborkbork 3y ago
The secret to their success is to build and test new tech in a low volume high cost vehicled then take that knowledge and build cheaper. Model S/X -> Model 3/Y. With that info, you can easily forecast that the tech they are testing in the Cybertruk will be the foundation for the 25k car.

chipdart 3y ago

> To a first approximation, if you express a strong opinion about politics (particularly in these times), no matter which side you align with, you're going to alienate about half your customers, so it's always seemed like bad business sense to do so. There's a basic principle as old as time which goes something like "never discuss politics, religion, and sports with co-workers". The reasons are obvious. What kind of absolute moron is going to assume the public face of a few fragile companies and insist on making broad gratuitous ignorant public statements on each and every single one of these topics, sometimes bundling a bunch of them together?

gota 3y ago
Surely its politics, religion and sex(uality)? Sports is the go to watercooler topic after weather