4 ms·

you will live to see enshittification beyond your comprehension

by recursivedoubts 3y ago

walterbell 3y ago
It's transient: a vendor goes too far, countermeasures follow, then economic consequences.
- MBCook 3y ago
  That only works with real competition. How’s the ink jet printer industry doing these days? Yeah. If everyone does it the only fix is a law. And clearly we don’t pass those anymore.
  - walterbell 3y ago
    On the video front, low-cost and legal HDMI splitters and downconverters have appeared in recent years. HDMI includes multiple protocols: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31828193 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31828193 HDMI blocked recent AMD contribution: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39543291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39543291 Ink jet printing is protected by patents. They will expire eventually.
  - eru 3y ago
    > How’s the ink jet printer industry doing these days? There's good competition from cheap laser printers. > If everyone does it the only fix is a law. What makes you think so? You could first try opening up the market more. You can lower barriers to market entry. Eg for new upstarts, for established companies in other industries trying to branch out, and for foreign would-be rivals, too.
- add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
  It doesn't work that way anymore and people need to understand the old rules are gone. We've passed an inflection point where a few companies have dipped their toes into extreme enshittification or excessive price increases and survived, so we're seeing the start of a free for all. Think of Reddit and Twitter doing user hostile shit starting last year, and fast food raising prices beyond the point where it's a discount relative to better food anymore. A critical mass of consumers is now so passive and docile that they don't change behavior as they're boiled alive.
  - walterbell 3y ago
    > Fast food raising prices beyond the point where it's a discount relative to better food anymore. A critical mass of consumers is now so passive and docile that they don't change behavior as they're boiled alive. Sad and self-correcting by self-eliminating consumers. But that will take time and smaller markets are a net negative for the survivors.
    - eru 3y ago
      Are you saying people will day en masse from fast food?
      - walterbell 3y ago
        It was a statement about uneconomic decisions. > they don't change behavior as they're boiled alive.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > fast food raising prices beyond the point where it’s a discount relative to better food anymore. Fast food has usually been more expensive than (not just “not at a discount to”) better food, ceteris paribus, because you are paying for “fast” in both money and quality. It is less expensive than better food that also has higher grades of service when the demand for service at the level at issue is sufficiently great compared to the demand for speed.
    - add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
      I don't think you pay for fast. You may need fast so you settle for worse, cheaper food. But you sacrifice a better, slower dining experience. I'd consider that its own qualitative tradeoff separate from pricing. But even if my framing is wrong, the fact remains that fast food has traditionally been cheaper than better (restaurant) food and only recently has that discount started to go away.
_3u10 3y ago
Just get a TV that isn’t shitty. People act like it’s a clockwork orange and you’re forced to watch ads.
- MBCook 3y ago
  And when they all do it, then what? Every single inkjet printer is trash because they all adopted the same tactics. All the TV makers went to selling your advertising data. What makes you think they won’t all do this?
  - redserk 3y ago
    Could buy a commercial display or set up a projector. That’s my backup plan at least.
    - eru 3y ago
      Even cheap projectors can be pretty good these days. They still need a darker room than a TV, though.
  - amyjess 3y ago
    That's what computer monitors are for. Edit: I'm a big fan of the Cooler Master GP27Q and GP27U. They both have eye-bleedingly gorgeous HDR and won't break the bank. You can get the Q for about $550 and the U for under $900; the difference is that the Q is 1440p and the U is 4K. The only criticism I have at all with them is that the firmware is kinda fucky (you will be spending your first few days with it constantly messing with settings, I guarantee) and doing computer stuff can be aggravating with FALD active; for example, I can scroll through a reddit post and watch the background color change between white and various shades of gray as I scroll, depending on the density of the text. But this is a complete non-issue if you're buying it as a TV replacement, and even if you are using it as a regular computer monitor, you get used to it real fast (and you can always turn off FALD when you're not watching something).
    - Sebb767 3y ago

you will live to see enshittification beyond your comprehension

walterbell 3y ago

It's transient: a vendor goes too far, countermeasures follow, then economic consequences.

MBCook 3y ago
That only works with real competition. How’s the ink jet printer industry doing these days? Yeah. If everyone does it the only fix is a law. And clearly we don’t pass those anymore.
- walterbell 3y ago
  On the video front, low-cost and legal HDMI splitters and downconverters have appeared in recent years. HDMI includes multiple protocols: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31828193 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31828193 HDMI blocked recent AMD contribution: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39543291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39543291 Ink jet printing is protected by patents. They will expire eventually.
- eru 3y ago
  > How’s the ink jet printer industry doing these days? There's good competition from cheap laser printers. > If everyone does it the only fix is a law. What makes you think so? You could first try opening up the market more. You can lower barriers to market entry. Eg for new upstarts, for established companies in other industries trying to branch out, and for foreign would-be rivals, too.
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
It doesn't work that way anymore and people need to understand the old rules are gone. We've passed an inflection point where a few companies have dipped their toes into extreme enshittification or excessive price increases and survived, so we're seeing the start of a free for all. Think of Reddit and Twitter doing user hostile shit starting last year, and fast food raising prices beyond the point where it's a discount relative to better food anymore. A critical mass of consumers is now so passive and docile that they don't change behavior as they're boiled alive.
- walterbell 3y ago
  > Fast food raising prices beyond the point where it's a discount relative to better food anymore. A critical mass of consumers is now so passive and docile that they don't change behavior as they're boiled alive. Sad and self-correcting by self-eliminating consumers. But that will take time and smaller markets are a net negative for the survivors.
  - eru 3y ago
    Are you saying people will day en masse from fast food?
    - walterbell 3y ago
      It was a statement about uneconomic decisions. > they don't change behavior as they're boiled alive.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > fast food raising prices beyond the point where it’s a discount relative to better food anymore. Fast food has usually been more expensive than (not just “not at a discount to”) better food, ceteris paribus, because you are paying for “fast” in both money and quality. It is less expensive than better food that also has higher grades of service when the demand for service at the level at issue is sufficiently great compared to the demand for speed.
  - add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
    I don't think you pay for fast. You may need fast so you settle for worse, cheaper food. But you sacrifice a better, slower dining experience. I'd consider that its own qualitative tradeoff separate from pricing. But even if my framing is wrong, the fact remains that fast food has traditionally been cheaper than better (restaurant) food and only recently has that discount started to go away.

_3u10 3y ago

Just get a TV that isn’t shitty. People act like it’s a clockwork orange and you’re forced to watch ads.

MBCook 3y ago
And when they all do it, then what? Every single inkjet printer is trash because they all adopted the same tactics. All the TV makers went to selling your advertising data. What makes you think they won’t all do this?
- redserk 3y ago
  Could buy a commercial display or set up a projector. That’s my backup plan at least.
  - eru 3y ago
    Even cheap projectors can be pretty good these days. They still need a darker room than a TV, though.
- amyjess 3y ago
  That's what computer monitors are for. Edit: I'm a big fan of the Cooler Master GP27Q and GP27U. They both have eye-bleedingly gorgeous HDR and won't break the bank. You can get the Q for about $550 and the U for under $900; the difference is that the Q is 1440p and the U is 4K. The only criticism I have at all with them is that the firmware is kinda fucky (you will be spending your first few days with it constantly messing with settings, I guarantee) and doing computer stuff can be aggravating with FALD active; for example, I can scroll through a reddit post and watch the background color change between white and various shades of gray as I scroll, depending on the density of the text. But this is a complete non-issue if you're buying it as a TV replacement, and even if you are using it as a regular computer monitor, you get used to it real fast (and you can always turn off FALD when you're not watching something).
  - Sebb767 3y ago