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I have jumped at this facility. My experience was similar to the description: rushed safety video that is playing while you are simultaneously given waivers to
by chabes 3y ago
I have jumped at this facility. My experience was similar to the description: rushed safety video that is playing while you are simultaneously given waivers to sign, forcing you to divert your focus between the two.
Not that watching the safety video would have helped in this case, as the instructor was not properly trained and vetted in the first place.
Still, it shows the careless attitude of the business, and the skewed priorities of profit over people.
- eleveriven 3y ago"...priorities of profit over people" - sounds really disturbing
- racked 3y agoScary. Sounds like a "scuba diving for newbies" session I took, where they would literally force you 16 meters underwater with only a quick spoken instruction about how to clear your goggles etc. Hair-raising.
- Phil_Latio 3y agoBut you still jumped.
- BHSPitMonkey 3y agoCustomers are not in a position to judge how much of a threat this might pose to their actual safety.
- giantg2 3y agoThat's true for virtually everything. Most drivers have no idea how much danger they are in or may cause since our tests are a joke. Put them on a skid pad and/or autocross course (TireRack had a defensive driving AutoX program), and then they might start to learn about the vehicle dynamics.
- lupusreal 3y agoMost drivers have a reasonable estimate of how common and serious car crashes are, since we drive and know people who drive and therefore have firsthand and secondhand experience with the matter The same probably can't be said for most skydivers (I assume most are first timers ticking off a bucket list item.)
- bombcar 3y agoBecause most people are drivers, they can recognize a "bad cab" or even a "bad bus" just when they see one. Most people are not professional ship drivers, and so big ships are much harder to recognize as "bad" just by looking at it. And the entire world is filled with "required, but ignored" waivers and such, and people just kind of "do what the professionals are saying."
- giantg2 3y agoBy that same logic the skydiver had a reasonable estimate of how dangerous it was based on the stereotypical view of the activity (and his prayer before doing it). The point isn't about if you think something is dangerous, but how dangerous it is. There are a bunch of near accidents and minor accidents because people fail to realize their limitations and the vehicle dynamics. I constantly see people texting, tailgating, and not understanding the law (right of way isuses). Many people are wildly overconfident, showing they don't really know the risks and engage in risky behavior that they aren't even aware of.
- lupusreal 3y agoStereotypes probably aren't a good basis for reasonable estimates. The average "I would never skydive" person probably severely overestimates the risks. Somebody who does decide to skydive... I can't say. But unless they looked up the statistics I think it's fair to say they have less information about it than an average driver. Also, drivers know all about near misses. Their propensity to near miss is based off their knowledge that major accidents are quiet infrequent for most drivers (most will never be in a life-threatening crash, and minor crashes are a "once in several years" occassion for most drivers.)
- michaelt 3y agoNobody goes skydiving expecting to be 100% safe. Nobody. The thrill of danger is the whole point of the sport. Unless they're providing skydiving to young children or the severely mentally disabled - which as I understand things, they aren't.
- datascienced 3y agoI don’t expect driving to be safe but I don’t want to worry about the airbag maker sticking a IED in my steering wheel, for profits or something.
- outcoldman 3y agoI feel as safe as driving a car. Except being on a plane, that is the main risk I take. I am a certified FAA Rigger, 1500 jumps, used to be an AFF Instructor.
- organsnyder 3y agoNo, but they are expecting a certain level of competence that will minimize risk.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tekla 3y agoDamn, if only we could apply this standard to driving
- tayo42 3y ago4.4 on Google maps with tons of positive 5star reviews
- throwaway74432 3y agoSurvivorship bias
- datascienced 3y ago20% discount on your next jump bias too as well?
- bigiain 3y agoNote to self: If I ever go skydiving, post a scathing 1 star review immediately before getting in the plane, and update it if I survive the landing...
- datascienced 3y agoA $40m judgement didn’t stop them but a millistar drop in their Google rating will get em!
- brewdad 3y agoA potential customers is far more likely to read a negative Google review than a log of court judgements.
- NathanaelRea 3y agoDeathswitch loaded with 1 star review "I died"
- RGamma 3y agoLet's be fair here. "I died" is two stars. One star is "I died and my family isn't paid damages and the business owner gets away scot-free".
- ilaksh 3y agoI feel like I have always judged skydiving correctly. It's been a consistent "nope" for me my entire life.
- outcoldman 3y agoSkydiving is much more safe than you think https://www.uspa.org/discover/faqs/safety https://www.uspa.org/discover/faqs/safety 1500 jumps in 5 years (not that much), 1 reserve ride, one twisted ankle in early 100 jumps.
- WalterBright 3y ago> Customers are not in a position to judge how much of a threat this might pose to their actual safety. I'm not so sure about that. I knew the statistics, and I paid full attention in the pre-jump class. A colleague of mine who went with us did not pay attention and shattered one leg from the ankle to the hip. Fortunately, he made a full recovery. I don't know why any intelligent person would regard jumping out of an airplane as "safe".
- NCFZ 3y agoWhich statistics are you talking about? According to the article, the only statistics available are from self reported data.
- WalterBright 3y agoWhen I went jumping back in the 80s, I was told that the accident rate was around 1 in 1000.
- calibas 3y agoI grew up in the area and the locals knew about all the deaths. If you told anybody you were going skydiving there, people would assume you were crazy or suicidal.
- outcoldman 3y agoI feel like locals always say that about any DropZone near them. I have heard the same about my previous home DropZone and the current one. Both are very active DropZone (tops of the USA). But yeah, every skydiver has heard about Lodi.
- recursive 3y agoSeveral years ago, a co-worker got a work group together for a groupon for this place. I lived. I didn't know about any of this. I assumed this was all tightly regulated.
- lazide 3y agoVery little of skydiving is actually regulated. There are some basic FAA regs (reserves need to be packed by certified riggers, for instance, and no jumping through clouds, and a handful of other rules), but USPA is a voluntary ‘regulatory’ organization and they do the rest. The rules are written in blood, and lack of compliance tends to be self regulating. They provide insurance in exchange for following the rules, which generally does what it needs to do. But anyone crazy enough could pay a pilot to let them jump out and not follow any of the licensing rules, and there isn’t much that would happen until something goes wrong and lawsuits start flying.
- outcoldman 3y agoThat is not entierely true. 1. Pilot still follow FAA, and there are chapters about skydiving operations in FAA for pilots. 2. USPA Members have to follow USPA rules even if they jump not in USPA DropZones. 3. The gear manufactures (especially Sigma) have their own set of rules for using their gear. Other than skydivers who want to be YouTube famous, there are not that many that do stupid shit.
- longerthoughts 3y ago>Not that watching the safety video would have helped in this case, as the instructor was not properly trained and vetted in the first place. The article is a little vague about the failure but I'm a skydiver and this might not be the instructor's fault. I know that sounds insane but hear me out. The article says "main and reserve parachutes had tangled, preventing either from opening". This could mean a few things: 1. Neither chute was ever deployed - "total malfunction" on main and reserve where they're both stuck in the container (backpack thing holding the parachute). An instructor following perfect protocol with a poorly packed reserve would have died here, and they likely did not pack the reserve themselves. Reserve chutes are packed by a master rigger who's required to apply a seal and update a little paper record on each rig indicating when it was packed and by whom. These are meant to be checked before you're allowed to get on a plane. Reserves are (thankfully) rarely opened until they're due to be repacked based on time. There's overlap between master riggers and instructors who handle tandem jumps, but the reserve was most likely not packed by that instructor. 2. Main deployed but has a "partial malfunction" (out but not fully open), reserve then deployed and tangles with the main. This would be the instructors fault - in this case they should cut away the main before deploying the reserve. 3. Main has a "total malfunction" where it doesn't come out at all, instructor deploys reserve, then main deploys late and tangles with the reserve. This one is inconclusive but probably not the instructor's fault. Protocol here is don't waste time cutting your main because you're falling fast with no drag from a partially deployed chute and the main is unlikely to ever open. The reason it could still be the instructors fault is if they had a chance to cut away the main after it came out and failed to do so before they tangled.
- mikhailfranco 3y agoI did a tandem freefall jump that had a "partial malfunction". The square canopy had one end closed off by lines looped over the top of the chute, perhaps 75% was still inflated. The instructor decided to keep the main chute. There was still significant drag, but no steering on the closed side, so we just spiralled into the ground at relatively high speed. The wind calculation was correct, so we hit a soft ploughed field. Needless to say - we survived :)
- LorenPechtel 3y ago