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Which is all somewhat ironic coming from Steve Jobs.
by iamacyborg 3y ago
Which is all somewhat ironic coming from Steve Jobs.
- pavlov 3y agoWhy? Do you think Jobs was a hands-off idea man who let others sweat the details?
- Workaccount2 3y ago[flagged]
- edouard-harris 3y agoI'd suggest reading the book Creative Selection by Ken Kocienda, which makes it clear that this wasn't the case.
- boringg 3y agoYou have a lot to learn about Steve.
- bruckie 3y ago> Do you think Jobs was a hands-off idea man who let others sweat the details? Very much not the case. I was on the iPod software team 15 years ago, and let me tell you, we got plenty of detailed feedback from periodic "SJ reviews". My manager (a line manager of a small team) went to those meetings and came back with lots of very specific things we needed to change. One year (fall 2008) Steve was going on vacation to Italy for a week or two, and asked for a development version of the iPod shuffle we were working on to take with him on the trip. (We were terrified, because it wasn't really ready for that level of scrutiny.) That was at a time when the iPhone 3G and the original iPad were also under development, and yet we got a bunch of feedback on the humble little iPod shuffle when he returned. He really was in the details, to an astonishing degree, and not just for the headline products, either.
- Workaccount2 3y agoThis seems to just re-enforce that he was an ideas man. I've yet to hear a story where Jobs was the one who discovered the fix, only stories that he pointed out the things that needed to be fixed. He's lauded as a visionary, not as an engineer. And all the stories about him are about him pushing others to realize his vision. Edit: Lots of people seem to disagree with me, but then pointing out how he was an extremely skilled ideas man. Perhaps that term has too much negative connotation for Jobs' visions (ideas) to be associated with?
- kevinmchugh 3y agoNobody's claiming that he was a programmer. From what I've read, though, he had a very keen sense of design and product. Here's an anecdote: https://www.folklore.org/Calculator_Construction_Set.html https://www.folklore.org/Calculator_Construction_Set.html I think "ideas guy" doesn't capture this. He had big ideas but also was super particular about details. (Which doesn't justify being a prick, to be certain)
- jdgoesmarching 3y agoMaybe the lines are more blurry, but design, marketing, and product are not just “ideas.” I’m not going to weigh in on what Steve contributed, but it’s perfectly plausible that he did so without writing code or holding a soldering iron. Not to say ideas guys aren’t prevalent, but for all his faults I would argue that Jobs wasn’t one of them.
- bdw5204 3y agoBeing able to point out the right things that need to be fixed is an important skill. Most people can tell when something is off about a product but can't tell you exactly what it is. You can easily identify the wrong thing as the problem then end up trying to hide a symptom instead of fixing the problem. Medicine is notorious for treating symptoms when the underlying problem is usually related to something else like diet or (lack of) exercise. You can also completely fail to identify an obvious problem such as the games where you end up stuck and having to Google how to progress because the game is poorly designed. This poor design isn't going to be obvious to anybody working on the game every day because they designed and already know the solution but it would come up if somebody else played the game and got stuck.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- passwordoops 3y agoI recommend finding people who worked at Apple while Steve Jobs was around. He was more involved than just barking I want "An iPod, a phone, an internet mobile communicator."
- Pxtl 3y agoYes, he was also haranguing and leaning on and verbally abusing Apple employees to get the most productivity out of them.
- b112 3y agoJust as everyone else did in the 80s. Judge people by the times they lived in, for you will be judged the same. (Without a doubt, something you think is OK, and everyone else does, will be seen as a horrible monstrosity by your descendants. It won't be something you can think of, and yet you'll be judged for it as a monster by some.)
- onion2k 3y agoBy all accounts Steve carried on managing the same way when he returned to Apple in 1997.
- bee_rider 3y agoHe was a pretty huge jerk to his wife and kid even by the standards of the day. He seems to have just not been a very nice guy. Jerks can invent interesting tech, right?
- buildsjets 3y agoEven in the 1980s, people who intentionally parked their unregistered Porches in handicapped spaces were considered monsters. Don't try to retcon Steve Jobs into something he was not. He was a brilliant scumbag.
- hobs 3y agoDon't forget that he leased them new continuously so that he always kept them unregistered and therefore wouldn't get ticketed!
- jimbokun 3y agoHuh? From everything I’ve read, Jobs was deep in the weeds with all that stuff. In terms of asking all the relevant questions, finding the right experts, the suppliers to provide the right inputs at the right price, finding alternative solutions to problems, etc. I doubt very many people knew more about bringing a new product idea to fruition from beginning to end than him.
- ajmurmann 3y agoI think your sentiment might be rooted in never having worked with a good product manager. What Jobs described is what I expect from a good PM. However, frequently PMs have so little understating how the product they manage works and is built and aren't that amazing at their own core skill set that developers either must push them up a hill or make these decisions instead of the PM turning the product manager into more of a project manager or mouth piece at best. It's a real shame because a good product manager can provide exactly the value Jobs is describing.
- treflop 3y agoA good product manager is key. I don’t think people realize how shitty everything you make is. It’s only through continuous improvement and iterations that it becomes really nice. Unless it’s something you’ve done many times before, if no one is pointing out problems with your design in the first version, it’s probably hot garbage.
- htrp 3y agoproject manager (pm) is the bare minimum that Product Manager (PM) has to do. Unfortunately, a lot of PM's only check the project manager box.
- ajmurmann 3y agoI'm not sure about the pm part. They certainly have to worry about it, but scheduling and delivery logistics to a large degree need to be a shared responsibility between product and engineering leadership. This is where the role responsibilities can get quite messy.
- ccorcos 3y agoSteve Jobs was technical though...