5 ms·

Until a gold has a military and economy behind it, it’s a toy. That is what a gold as a rock represents: power and trust.

zer00eyz 3y ago
Gold is not a currency, it's a commodity. It has been used for 1000's of years for adornment, because of its mailability and luster. Recently it also has application in industry at an unprecedented scale. Bitcoin is a token that represents an amount of wasted electricity. It has no value other than the intrinsic ones people place on it, like a currency. We can decide that bitcoin is worthless tomorrow and it would be. If you do the same for dollars, you have the US military to answer to...
- carlosjobim 3y ago
  Gold has always been a currency, it is a currency right now and it will be a currency for all future. That's why central banks deal in gold, while the serfs pay interest for fake paper money. Not the entire world is shackled and under military or police threat. You could also free yourself, if you research how to. Even without using any bitcoin nor gold.
  - sambeau 3y ago
    Central banks do not deal in gold and have not for decades, some for nigh-on a century.
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      From 2023: "China has spearheaded record levels of central bank purchases of gold globally in the first nine months of the year, as countries seek to hedge against inflation and reduce their reliance on the dollar. Central banks have bought 800 tonnes in the first nine months of the year, up 14 per cent year-on-year, according to a report by the World Gold Council, an industry group." https://www.ft.com/content/abc39431-1755-4906-b11e-ee9e53baadfe https://www.ft.com/content/abc39431-1755-4906-b11e-ee9e53baa...
      - jpc0 3y ago
        > hedge against inflation and reduce their reliance on the dollar If I am dealing in X I don't buy more X incase X's value decreases The parent comment is correct, gold hasn't been a standard for a long time to base the value of currency on. It is simply a commodity with a relatively stable value up until now. The only thing currency value is based on is how much people are willing to pay for it and as correlation to that how many people are willing to accept it as payment. I invite you to walk into your local grocery store and attempt to pay in anything other than your local currency, you will fins out just how worthless that is as a currency. So for me, a non-US citizen who isn't doing any dealing with people willing to accept dollars, dollars are as much a currency as pet rocks are. They can be converted into currency but they are not currency. Gold holds the same property although I would much rather hold gold than US dollars and that is where your quote on central banks come in. I'm much more likely to get the same amouny of currency from gold than from US dollars on the future should I choose to sell it.
  - zer00eyz 3y ago
    Gold can be made into currency, aka a coin. As can silver or bronze or zinc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debasement as an example of what happens when gold ends up a currency.
    - imtringued 3y ago
      People don't seem to understand that money is not much different to a deed that declares your property rights over a house or a plot of land. There is no difference. Whether it is paper or a metal coin, there is no difference since the money is like a legal contract recording how much abstract value you have given to "society" and how much access you have to resources. It is more like a key that opens doors. The problem with believing that money is a commodity is that such a commodity needs to be a master key, capable of opening every door. This ability to open doors is known as "liquidity", but perfect liquidity cannot exist. If you had a door for every point in space time, it is pretty clear that your key from 2024 can't open a door from 2023. It also can't open a door in Brazil when the key was made in the US. Money is always bound in time and space, but gold gives the impression that it is neither. The debasement is an inevitable fact that those metaphorical doors are closing and opening over time. In fact, the impression that gold bugs give is that the government and general public should force all those doors to stay open at great expense, while they do nothing as if laziness was a virtue that demands compensation.
      - someplaceguy 3y ago
        > money is like a legal contract recording how much abstract value you have given to "society" and how much access you have to resources Finally, someone who understands money. As opposed to the typical "but my military!", as if no country with a strong military had ever had its currency fail... I would only emphasize the importance of the scarcity aspect of money, which seems to be a (purposely) forgotten lesson nowadays. It reminds me of the historical importance of the Spanish Price Revolution, which with its 1.2% yearly inflation, nowadays it would be considered laughable.
        3y ago
  - throw0101b 3y ago
    > Gold has always been a currency […] Not in Mesoamerican civilizations (Aztec, Mayans). Also not for the Chinese, who used silver for currency (and gold for ceremonial purposes). Around the Mediterranean, gold became a currency 'only' around 500BC with the Lydians—which is a very long time after the first economic records we have, which take back to Ur III, the Babylonians (Hammurabi), Ancient Egypt.
- nradov 3y ago
  The US military is mostly irrelevant for maintaining the value of the dollar. If you treat the dollar as worthless or use other currencies they won't bomb you. It's really more civilian law enforcement that maintains the value of the dollar and blocks alternative currencies from widespread adoption. If you incur a tax liability to the US government then you have to settle the debt using dollars: they won't take gold or Bitcoin or cattle. And if you fail to pay then eventually they'll use violence (or the threat thereof) to seize your assets.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
kasey_junk 3y ago
Gold is not a currency. I’m not sure what point you think you are making but you aren’t refuting the point about currency.
- user90131313 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - LegibleCrimson 3y ago
    You replied directly to a comment about currency, and replaced the word "currency" with "gold". How is that not comparing gold to a currency?
  - ramon156 3y ago
    If that's not your argument then please explain yourself instead of shy-ing away from your argument. How are gold and currency related?

zer00eyz 3y ago

Gold is not a currency, it's a commodity. It has been used for 1000's of years for adornment, because of its mailability and luster. Recently it also has application in industry at an unprecedented scale. Bitcoin is a token that represents an amount of wasted electricity. It has no value other than the intrinsic ones people place on it, like a currency. We can decide that bitcoin is worthless tomorrow and it would be. If you do the same for dollars, you have the US military to answer to...

carlosjobim 3y ago
Gold has always been a currency, it is a currency right now and it will be a currency for all future. That's why central banks deal in gold, while the serfs pay interest for fake paper money. Not the entire world is shackled and under military or police threat. You could also free yourself, if you research how to. Even without using any bitcoin nor gold.
- sambeau 3y ago
  Central banks do not deal in gold and have not for decades, some for nigh-on a century.
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    From 2023: "China has spearheaded record levels of central bank purchases of gold globally in the first nine months of the year, as countries seek to hedge against inflation and reduce their reliance on the dollar. Central banks have bought 800 tonnes in the first nine months of the year, up 14 per cent year-on-year, according to a report by the World Gold Council, an industry group." https://www.ft.com/content/abc39431-1755-4906-b11e-ee9e53baadfe https://www.ft.com/content/abc39431-1755-4906-b11e-ee9e53baa...
    - jpc0 3y ago
      > hedge against inflation and reduce their reliance on the dollar If I am dealing in X I don't buy more X incase X's value decreases The parent comment is correct, gold hasn't been a standard for a long time to base the value of currency on. It is simply a commodity with a relatively stable value up until now. The only thing currency value is based on is how much people are willing to pay for it and as correlation to that how many people are willing to accept it as payment. I invite you to walk into your local grocery store and attempt to pay in anything other than your local currency, you will fins out just how worthless that is as a currency. So for me, a non-US citizen who isn't doing any dealing with people willing to accept dollars, dollars are as much a currency as pet rocks are. They can be converted into currency but they are not currency. Gold holds the same property although I would much rather hold gold than US dollars and that is where your quote on central banks come in. I'm much more likely to get the same amouny of currency from gold than from US dollars on the future should I choose to sell it.
- zer00eyz 3y ago
  Gold can be made into currency, aka a coin. As can silver or bronze or zinc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debasement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debasement as an example of what happens when gold ends up a currency.
  - imtringued 3y ago
    People don't seem to understand that money is not much different to a deed that declares your property rights over a house or a plot of land. There is no difference. Whether it is paper or a metal coin, there is no difference since the money is like a legal contract recording how much abstract value you have given to "society" and how much access you have to resources. It is more like a key that opens doors. The problem with believing that money is a commodity is that such a commodity needs to be a master key, capable of opening every door. This ability to open doors is known as "liquidity", but perfect liquidity cannot exist. If you had a door for every point in space time, it is pretty clear that your key from 2024 can't open a door from 2023. It also can't open a door in Brazil when the key was made in the US. Money is always bound in time and space, but gold gives the impression that it is neither. The debasement is an inevitable fact that those metaphorical doors are closing and opening over time. In fact, the impression that gold bugs give is that the government and general public should force all those doors to stay open at great expense, while they do nothing as if laziness was a virtue that demands compensation.
    - someplaceguy 3y ago
      > money is like a legal contract recording how much abstract value you have given to "society" and how much access you have to resources Finally, someone who understands money. As opposed to the typical "but my military!", as if no country with a strong military had ever had its currency fail... I would only emphasize the importance of the scarcity aspect of money, which seems to be a (purposely) forgotten lesson nowadays. It reminds me of the historical importance of the Spanish Price Revolution, which with its 1.2% yearly inflation, nowadays it would be considered laughable.
      - 3y ago
- throw0101b 3y ago
  > Gold has always been a currency […] Not in Mesoamerican civilizations (Aztec, Mayans). Also not for the Chinese, who used silver for currency (and gold for ceremonial purposes). Around the Mediterranean, gold became a currency 'only' around 500BC with the Lydians—which is a very long time after the first economic records we have, which take back to Ur III, the Babylonians (Hammurabi), Ancient Egypt.
nradov 3y ago
The US military is mostly irrelevant for maintaining the value of the dollar. If you treat the dollar as worthless or use other currencies they won't bomb you. It's really more civilian law enforcement that maintains the value of the dollar and blocks alternative currencies from widespread adoption. If you incur a tax liability to the US government then you have to settle the debt using dollars: they won't take gold or Bitcoin or cattle. And if you fail to pay then eventually they'll use violence (or the threat thereof) to seize your assets.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

kasey_junk 3y ago

Gold is not a currency. I’m not sure what point you think you are making but you aren’t refuting the point about currency.

user90131313 3y ago
[flagged]
- LegibleCrimson 3y ago
  You replied directly to a comment about currency, and replaced the word "currency" with "gold". How is that not comparing gold to a currency?
- ramon156 3y ago
  If that's not your argument then please explain yourself instead of shy-ing away from your argument. How are gold and currency related?