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Class Action Against General Motors LLC, OnStar LLC, LexisNexis Risk Solutions [pdf]
- happytiger 3y agoWe need a privacy bill of rights. The fact is that no other approach works.
- ProllyInfamous 3y agoCan this please include a section on things that are not allowed to be included in any ToS?!
- stavros 3y agoSomething like the GDPR?
- kube-system 3y agoWell, something like FCRA at least.
- troydavis 3y agoFrom the complaint: > Plaintiff did not want OnStar services and so he did not push the blue button "to get started." The email provides no mention of OnStar's Smart Driver Program. … > In or around January 2024, Plaintiff received his requested LexisNexis consumer disclosure. The report, as of December 18, 2023, had 258 recorded driving events under the "Telematics" subsection. Each driving event included trip details that show the start date, end date, start time, end time, acceleration events, hard brake events, high speed events, distance, and VIN. … > Plaintiff had never opted into any insurance program that would have allowed his information to be shared. Related: "Automakers are sharing consumers' driving behavior with insurance companies" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39666976 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39666976 And if you own a car made in the last ~5 years, here's how to request your "Consumer Disclosure Report" from LexisNexis: https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/ https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/ . According to NYT, LexisNexis receives at least some data from GM, Ford, Kia, Subaru, and Mitsubishi. Or from Verisk, which receives data from at least GM, Hyundai, and Honda: https://fcra.verisk.com/#/ https://fcra.verisk.com/#/
- grepfru_it 3y agoTeehee I wrote about this after my gag order expired. GM was shipping all telematics data to a big data cluster processing 100gbps of data (with double the data once Cisco released 400gbps support). Originally it was to help price their used cars. A noble effort I supported. I didn’t know about the sales to insurance brokers, but should have assumed that was coming. Anyway cat is out of the bag, they won’t undo this feature they will pay a fine, offer an opt-out to 5% of users who take up the offer and in 10 years time everyone will assume their driving habits are being monitored by their insurance company. How do I know this? It’s been 10 years since the hoopla about realtime location data being sold. Last night I saw my home IP address reports my location with .25 mile accuracy. Guess that $5 check from Verizon was the fine they had to pay!
- EMIRELADERO 3y ago> Anyway cat is out of the bag, they won’t undo this feature they will pay a fine, offer an opt-out to 5% of users who take up the offer and in 10 years time everyone will assume their driving habits are being monitored by their insurance company. So can't the plaintiffs just request an order compelling GM and others to remove the feature forever as part of the remedies?
- tialaramex 3y agoSpecific Performance. A court can order as the equitable remedy that one of the parties does a specific thing. Yes, in principle. But no in practice. The real world use of Specific Performance is mostly in Real Property ie the ownership of land and this is because land is very obviously not fungible. The square meter of land I need to get my cows from the grazing field to the nearby milking shed is not in any way equivalent to an otherwise similar square meter of land on the far side of the field leading nowhere, and having the wrong one can't meaningfully be compensated with money whereas the court can just order Specific Performance (ie the wrongful owner hands over the land) to fix the problem. But even beyond that in practice class actions are primarily about the lawyers getting a healthy pay day. $1M each for us as lawyers and each individual "participant" in the class action gets $1 and a 5% discount coupon that expires in six weeks? Sounds good. For the lawyers the incentive is that pay day and the only reason to care about their participants is that if they're treated too poorly a judge may not sign off on the deal.
- issafram 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- tehwebguy 3y agoWe are going to learn so many disturbing things that data brokers (which includes basically every large corporation) are doing in the next years.
- two_handfuls 3y agoAnd hopefully rein them in.
- advael 3y agoWithout extremely aggressive changes to how we handle situations like this, it seems unlikely A fine is a price, and there are basically no laws that put financial, let alone criminal liability for people behind the corporate veil or seizure/dissolution of a corporation that consistently breaks the law on the table
- KerrAvon 3y agoHow? Who will represent that viewpoint in the halls of congress? The EFF is politically ineffective and always has been for reasons I don't understand, and no one else seems to care.
- irq 3y ago> The EFF is politically ineffective and always has been for reasons I don't understand, and no one else seems to care. Going by the EFF's latest published financials (2022), they took in $23 million vs $16.6 million in expenses. Vs literal billionaires and nation states. Some of the billionaires have more money than the nation states do. David, meet Goliath. I care. I give them my money. They seem to do a better job at advancing these interests than anyone else. I'm more in awe of their attempts to take on issues of this magnitude given their meager resources than anything else.
- nceqs3 3y agoI'm sorry, but what nation-state or billionaire is fighting against the EFF? In fact, the EFF is funded by billionaires and nation-states.
- newprint 3y agoI wounder if this is true for older vehicles. I have 2018 vehicle with OnStar that is definitely has cell access (I could start it remotely).
- lxe 3y agoIs there a practical way to block any outgoing communication and telemetry from getting sent? Like a Little Snitch but for your car?
- newprint 3y agoI remember reading on HN that someone found a sim card in their vehicle and took it out.
- NickNameNick 3y agoPresumably the new ones use an e-sim instead of a physical one.
- toast0 3y agoWell, I removed the telematics module from my car. But it already stopped working because it was 3G only. The car was built in 2014, shipped with a 2G modem that was replaced at Ford's expense when 2G went offline shortly after the car was sold. My other car with telematics was built in 2016 with a 3G modem that also no longer works.
- mysterydip 3y agoI guess there's a silver lining to sunsetting 3G I hadn't considered. Thanks!
- hatsunearu 3y agoFor my car (2024 GR Corolla) you can pull a fuse that goes to the telematics computer. The car has a bad habit of calling the emergency hotline on a race track if you go over rumble strips (those painted red/white strips) because it shakes the car so violently I guess. Popping the fuse will make it stop happening.
- ProllyInfamous 3y agoOn my 2021 Camry, the fuse is labeled `DCS` — the only caveat is, it disables the front-right tweeter (there is a bypass, but requires you to remove the front dashboard and install jumpers across the DCS connector).
- selykg 3y agoGM is trying really hard to not get my business in the future. Between the no Car Play and Android Auto support in their new EVs. Now this. I'm just tired man...
- cheeze 3y agoThey've done that just fine for me by releasing... lame cars across the board. Most of their brands are shells of their former selves (especialllly Cadillac) and I can't remember the last time I saw a Chevy that I actually liked.
- selykg 3y agoI mean, I get that. Part of it is irrational because my father worked for and retired from GM. So it's a bit of a family thing. But the loyalty has a limit and I believe Mary Barra has reached the limit for me.
- CSMastermind 3y ago> Between the no Car Play and Android Auto support in their new EVs. Wait seriously? That's a wild choice.
- dwighttk 3y agoyeah they're doin it themselves
- parthdesai 3y agowhy would you want GM in first place? You've Japanese, German and to some extend even Korean cars that are much better. If pick up truck is what you're looking for, then Ford is much better
- dogmatism 3y agoIf you're in the market for a smaller, cheap(ish) EV with decent range, the Chevy Bolt (used) is basically the only option, and honestly can be had for less than any equivalent ICE vehicle of similar quality/mileage
- BenFranklin100 3y agoThis is good news. I hope this serves as inspiration for future cases against app developers, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, and all who are not upfront about their data and privacy practices.
- unyttigfjelltol 3y agoLeave it to data brokers and insurance companies to make the leap "ick" to outrage. On the other hand... to all selfish, unsafe street-racing, road-hogging Cadillac XT6 drivers out there: may your insurance rates double and may you swim forever in a sea of adverse underwriting decisions.
- afavour 3y agoI do think there’s an interesting future dilemma here. I’m absolutely against them sharing this data without consent. But if sharing e.g. the number of hard brakes you do was made explicit and led to lower insurance premiums… I’d be tempted. I often feel like there’s little reward for adhering to traffic laws these days.
- GuestHNUser 3y ago> led to lower insurance premiums Maybe it would be lower relative to other people's rates, but one must imagine that any insurance prices will only ever cost more to the consumer.
- smokefoot 3y agoThis is not how capitalism works. However, if insurance were priced perfectly, it would cease to be useful!
- dgacmu 3y agoNot really. Accidents are a function of driver and environment. You can't control the other drivers. If you think of the primary purpose of insurance as to make sure that the party not at fault is made whole, then perfectly priced insurance becomes like posting a bond in order to drive. Which isn't unreasonable. (Plus uninsured motorist coverage for the other parts you can't control, which really is an insurance function.)
- smokefoot 3y agoThere used to be opt-in insurance programs with many carriers. They used to send you a device, but I guess that was mooted by secret mass surveillance?
- rr1 3y agoTelematics should be disabled, preferably by way of hard cutting the modem chip's V-in. Call me a tinfoil hat lover, but when 23andme gets bought by an insurance company, the similarities with potential insurability issues are numerous when data is available to the other without a big, shining red opt-in.
- ProllyInfamous 3y agoConveniently, on most modern Toyota vehicles there is a fuse labeled `DCS` which disables power to the modem.
- kube-system 3y agoLuckily, GINA makes it illegal to use 23andme data for health insurance.
- userbinator 3y agoAs this article shows, "illegal to use" doesn't always stop them from doing it.
- kube-system 3y agoAgreed, but acquisitions of public companies typically get regulatory attention up-front. An insurer buying 23andme would be an obvious red flag from day one.
- schappim 3y agoThe complaint is for: • Violations of the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) due to the alleged improper sharing and reporting of plaintiffs' driving data without consent, impacting their ability to secure car insurance and leading to increased rates. • Violations of the Florida Deceptive and Unfair Trade Practices Act, accusing the defendants of engaging in deceptive practices by sharing personal driving data without the knowledge or consent of the car owners. • Invasions of privacy under Florida common law, arguing that the defendants' actions of tracking, collecting, and sharing personal driving data without consent intrude upon the plaintiffs' private lives and are offensive.
- Pokerface777 3y agoHopefully more class action lawsuits follow for other car manufacturers...
- deadbabe 3y agoRequest your data now: https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/request https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/request
- cebert 3y agoThanks for sharing this. I just submitted a request and am interested to see what they’ve collected.
- Linda231 3y ago[dead]
- jcgrillo 3y agolmfao this is why my newest car is from 1999. Computers ruin everything. Be warned.
- ungreased0675 3y agoCollecting and storing personal data needs to be exorbitantly expensive. LexisNexis knew exactly what they were doing and probably already factored in litigation costs to the product. Experian should have been fined out of existence when they lost all that data. The light of their funeral pyre could have warned away companies headed down the same path.
- plagiarist 3y agoIt is so enraging. Not only did they have zero consequences compared to what they should have received, they're still somehow the lone report I have to thaw for every single loan and line of credit. I'd like to see a HIPAA for regular data.
- selimthegrim 3y agoIt's pre-frozen?
- plagiarist 3y agoAfter Equifax I have to assume my SSN and address are public. I froze everything and it will stay frozen forever. I think everyone should freeze all their accounts. It's tedious but easy.
- bonton89 3y agoCould you briefly explain the process and any hang ups you have to deal with?
- plagiarist 3y agoYou find the right area of each agency's website to initiate a freeze. IIRC you have to make an account with them. You will have to prove your identity, which involves answering multiple choice questions about loans and residences you've had. My hang ups were mostly that I have a terrible memory so I had to look up info on loans to answer those questions. I was also full of rage that I have to give them my current info, but they 100% already have that from my bank, so whatever. When thawing you log in to the account and choose what days you want it thawed for. If you apply for loans or lines of credit it's smoother to do ahead of time, but IME nobody cares if you have to thaw and then reapply.
- calvinmorrison 3y agonothing will happen until heads literally roll, everything else is just business.
- whatever1 3y agoNice thing is that tracking via cellular never stops working but if you are in an emergency they will not call emergency services for you if you don't pay the subscription. Clearly your data are more important than you
- treebeard901 3y agoIt's good to read this thread and know that finally people are realizing the full extent of the surveillance. I have dealt with a Govt agency targeting me for several years and having technical knowledge, I've noticed all of this invasion of privacy and control used against me, lots of it wouldn't even be possible without technology or the internet. But it's so much more than if you gave up your phone... It's a literal surveillance state and even if you go to the suburbs away from the concrete prisons our cities have been turned into, you still have front door cameras everywhere, accessible by law enforcement. In fact, to abuse all of this stuff and weaponize it against someone, you do not need to have a court order or a warrant. As long as you find the right people, have the right narrative, companies will do all kinds of stuff to you, even if you are a customer. And my original reply before going off on a tangent was that even if you remove your sim card, even if you somehow disable emergency services, your phone is still pinging and leaking all these signals that are picked up by all kinds of scanners. Very few people even accept this is happening at scale, let alone are able to reason about the implications of it all. The public needs a better job of being informed about the consequences of all of it.
- 7952 3y agoI agree with the worry about surveillance. But isn't this really a continuation of how car makers treat their customers and the public generally. Cars companies comprimise privacy in the same way that they willingly comprimise safety, public health and the environment. It is the result of a broken culture and naive to expect them to change.
- thfuran 3y agoI think it's a mistake to frame it that way. Collecting and selling data is essentially ubiquitous among companies with access to harvestable data. ISPs, cell providers, smart tv manufacturers, and so on are not broadly associated with some specific historic cultural or urban planning failing. They're companies with access to an additional revenue stream, and nearly any company that can will make the same decision.
- smokefoot 3y agoThe secrecy is ick, but this is the future and there’s no stopping it. There’s ample evidence that consumers won’t pay for privacy and as most consumers opt in to data sharing programs, the non-data-sharing cohort will get seriously adverse further raising the price of privacy. The equilibrium state is that only bad actors and a handful of privacy zealots will inhabit that pool and mainstream carriers won’t even bid it.
- Dibby053 3y agoConsumers won't pay for safety either, which is why we have NCAP and mandatory vehicle inspections.
- smokefoot 3y agoRight, good point. We will see if regulators take up that cause.
- randerson 3y agoBasically, privacy will become a luxury that only the rich can afford.
- bonton89 3y agoExtremely rich, maybe. But since the value of a person's data goes up with their income just having the ability to pay extra won't save you.
- 7thaccount 3y agoThis all makes me so angry. It's so messed up.
- dade_ 3y agoI’m sure GM has a formula for this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiB8GVMNJkE
- G1N 3y agoCompanion nytimes article for anyone interested: https://archive.ph/MVmoX https://archive.ph/MVmoX
- 1970-01-01 3y ago>“What no one can tell me is how I enrolled in it,” Mr. Chicco told The Times in an interview this month. “You can tell me how many times I hard-accelerated on Jan. 30 between 6 a.m. and 8 a.m., but you can’t tell me how I enrolled in this?”
- koolba 3y agoHow much do they actually get for this per vehicle? I feel like the answer to the that would explain a lot.
- brianaker 3y agoHas Subaru been doing this as well with their STARLINK?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- yyyfb 3y agoThis is at least a Florida lawsuit. I'm pretty sure the practice violates California law as well.
- yyyfb 3y agoI have obtained an email from GM stating that if I am an OnStar Smart Driver subscriber, I cannot opt out of my data being shared. I believe this violates at least California privacy regulations, probably some other states, which mandate opt outs. I seriously want to rip the modem out of my car.
- staticautomatic 3y agoSome lawyer at GM is reading this and saying, "No private right of action FTW, suckaaaaaaa"
- yyyfb 3y agoPerhaps. This thing might be an easy win for a regulatory agency looking to establish itself though.
- staticautomatic 3y agoNobody in the privacy world is really holding their breath on the CPPA but maybe this could be the one!
- yyyfb 3y agoThe coda to the story is hilarious. CCPA apparently has an exemption (I'd say loophole) for the sale of personal information to consumer reporting agencies, as long as the use of that data is covered by the Fair Credit Reporting Act. So if FCRA allows it, CCPA says go right ahead!
- delfinom 3y agoWell you can file a CCPA violation complaint with the state AG. Especially because a "Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information" link is mandatory. https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa#sectionh https://oag.ca.gov/privacy/ccpa#sectionh https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-business-or-company https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-busine...
- Pokerface777 3y agoFord knows when you break the law: https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-exec-gps-2014-1 I wonder if they also share their data or if they were trying to find customers for the data.
- chiefalchemist 3y agoBut what if the automakers' solution going forward is to not make the feature optional? That the service gets baked into the price? They turn it on. They leave it on. Especially with a lease, won't they have a legal angle to protecting their property? My concern this might become a "be careful what you wish for"?
- chiefalchemist 3y agoAnyone know where VW sitting on this general topic?
- tm0 3y ago>The DriveView program became available to Volkswagen Car-Net subscribers starting with model year 2020. By enrolling in DriveView, Car-Net users may be eligible for discounted rates from some of the top automotive insurance companies in the country. This program can also help Car-Net users monitor their driving by tracking activities like night driving, hard braking, and idle time. These factors all contribute to an overall driving score, which is visible within the Car-Net mobile app and on vw.com/carnet. Through the agreement with CCC, VW Car-Net will leverage the newly released CCC® VIN Connect, which applies driving behavior data at the point-of-quote, making it fast and easy for eligible consumers to connect with potential insurance discounts. https://media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1370 https://media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1370
- steelframe 3y agoI recently bought a Toyota because I was able to push the "SOS" button in the car and request that they disable telematics right after I bought it. I don't know whether they've actually stopped collecting my location information or if they can arbitrarily re-enable telematics at some time in the future for whatever reason, so I've additionally pulled a fuse that powers the transmitter. I'm mulling wrapping some components in a Faraday cage just for good measure. The ability to prevent the car from spying on me was near the top of my list of desired features when I was shopping for a new car. This is one of the main things keeping me from buying another EV. So far as I'm aware there is nothing on the market where I live that won't constantly spy on you with no option to disable. This article from Mozilla is worth a read: https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/articles/its-official-cars-are-the-worst-product-category-we-have-ever-reviewed-for-privacy/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/article...
- ezfe 3y agoI bought a Toyota last year and the app clearly showed me a bunch of opt in/out options and I felt relatively confident they were either outright lying or I had opted out. I'll have to request my info to see for sure
- steelframe 3y agoI never installed the app or registered an account or anything. The rep who I spoke to after pressing the SOS button mentioned that they had to create an account for me and then disable. They went ahead and at least said they did that while I waited on the line. I'm more confident in effectiveness of pulling the DCM fuse.
- McQuain1 3y agoI'm in the market to buy a car and have narrowed it down to 2024 prius. I've read Mozilla's papers and a few auto forums on privacy issues with some abilities to turn on/off telematics. As you say, none of what I've read is conclusive in whether this actually stops collection. Do you have any links you followed for the physical fuse?
- rkagerer 3y agoReading this got me cheering out loud for the plaintiff. I'm so glad to see someone taking these bastards to court. I can relate in some small way to part of his ordeal - not with GM specifically, but I don't know how many times I've been stuck in a loop with companies who have no idea what happens to your data they hoover up and can't explain or answer even the most basic questions on that topic - and are confused as to why you are even asking. I hope this gets its class action certification and jury trial, and I'm looking forward to kicking back with a bag of popcorn and watching the show. If he started a GoFundMe or something I'd be happy to make a substantial contribution to his legal fees. It's long past the time bad actors like this who give you no real choice or control over the products you are buying start to be brought to justice.
- spdustin 3y agoI recently requested a quote while insurance shopping, and progressive seems to have already associated driving telematics history with one of my vehicles (a 2015 Chevy product).
- omginternets 3y agoHow did this manifest, exactly?
- Hit-Lar 3y ago[dead]
- beretguy 3y agoIs it possible to wrap “cellular connection” module in copper mesh to cut it off from sending data?
- kube-system 3y agoIt probably won't work very well. Faraday cages attenuate, they don't block signals, and most amateur attempts don't even attenuate very much. Wrap your phone in aluminum foil, put it in the microwave, and give it a call. It'll probably still ring.
- speff 3y agoTried it - 1. No foil, microwave - rings 2. Foil, no microwave - rings 3. Foil, microwave - doesn't ring I feel like cell phones have to be more sensitive than w/e transmitter the car has, but your point holds - naively wrapping it in foil still probably won't work.
- NewJazz 3y agoCell phones are less sensitive than the transmitter in your car, usually. Think about how much power budget you have in a car vs. A phone.
- kube-system 3y agoNice! I've done a bunch of RF attenuation experiments with friends, and foil+microwave was the best result we found using stuff lying around any of our houses. With foil+microwave we were able to attenuate the signal enough to seriously degrade service, but never quite enough to block all traffic. In our experiments, the microwave was doing the majority of the work, based on the signal strength we observed. Results also varied a good bit by carrier, presumably because of the different bands used. Tin-foil hat wearers beware.
- planede 3y agoYou probably have better luck by finding some standard antenna connection and attaching a proper 50 Ohm terminator to it.
- teeray 3y agoOnStar is one of those features that has desperately tried to claim is somehow different than the features your phone already provides.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- MichaelMug 3y agoI understand that my opinion on this matter may be controversial, but I feel compelled to share my experiences. In the past five years, I've noticed a significant increase in aggressive driving. I've been the victim of two hit-and-run incidents where I was rear-ended, and the drivers fled the scene. In a third incident, a driver collided with the side of my car as the road curved and had the audacity to tell the police that I was at fault. In Texas, I've witnessed rampant red-light running, failure to stop at stop signs, excessive speeding (more than 15 mph over the limit), tailgating, and failure to use turn signals. I believe that telematics could be a valuable tool in addressing this issue by scoring drivers based on their driving habits and adjusting their insurance rates accordingly. This would not only encourage safer driving practices but also ensure that responsible drivers are not unfairly penalized for the actions of aggressive drivers. In my opinion, telematics should be required for operating a vehicle on public roads.
- mlsu 3y agoNone of those people have car insurance.
- P_I_Staker 3y agoWillful dangerous driving is surpassing DUI these days it seems in terms of danger. ... but I guess some of these people were on something, too.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 3y agoWhile I dislike how little practical enforcement there is against the pervasive surveillance by ad-tech companies, this is one of the things that GDPR works wonders against: No sane company would want to participate in such a scheme in Europe. Both the seller and the buyers would be on the hook for massive GDPR fines, and unlike a tech company where the privacy violations might be contributing 50% of the revenue and which could thus easily consider a 4% of revenue fine once every few years a (small) cost of doing business, car companies can't afford that. General Motors had a global revenue of $172 billion, net income $10B, and the data sales are only a small part of that. The intermediate company that's buying the data and reselling it to car manufacturers could potentially try to get away with it, because their entire business model depends on it, so they have little to lose. Just make sure to keep no money in the company because once the DPAs learn of the business the company a) has no business model because they will prohibit continued buying/selling of the data b) is likely to be bankrupted by the fine that might well exceed their entire revenue (for smaller companies, the fine isn't capped to 4% of revenue, the limit is 20M EUR). For the insurance companies that would be buying this data I'd imagine it's even worse. And this sort of egregious thing is something I can see DPAs actually enforcing, because it'd be much more clear cut than tech companies using non-compliant consent banners. Edit: And I forgot the most important thing - if they don't put it into their privacy policy they're even more screwed, and if they do put it there, a customer who finds it can get it enforced by sending an e-mail (or in Germany, letter, because some DPAs don't accept e-mail) rather than finding a lawyer willing to start a class action.
- jmakov 3y agoHow we came to a stage where your iris is being monitored in your car, including mic and video recording and all your contact being uploaded as soon as you connect to the entertainment sys... and nobody gives a fuck. It's beyond my understanding.
- nojvek 3y agoIn this age of cars I want dumb cars with an engine that I could optionally plug in my smart thing if I wanted. Even Toyota has gone too smart with their in tune crap. Give me a cockroach car that survives for 50 years. No other bells and whistles. Just some connectors for them.
- LinuxBender 3y agoIs there a hardware hacking forum that would teach people how to modify their rig to use the good features of such devices regardless of manufacturer but intercept and modify telemetry data to feed them realistic looking but fake data until you press a distress button and them give real location? I ask because I do not trust the legal system to ever catch up to this globally or to have any real teeth that make companies feel real pain. I've played whack-a-mole with spammers and malware distributors. This feels the same to me. Until it becomes trivial to disable such things I personally will stick with fixing up used vehicles that I know are free of loose lips.
- NeuNeurosis 3y agoI think this is what you are looking for https://www.reddit.com/r/CarHacking/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CarHacking/
- LinuxBender 3y agoThat's a great start. Thankyou!
- sudden_dystopia 3y agoBuried in the complaint is an interesting part about why he lost his original insurance carrier, they stopped writing policies in FL. The personal injury lawyers in Florida are out of control. There are also a ton of staged accident rings that nobody is doing anything about. I’m surprised any insurance carriers exist in that state anymore.
- Terr_ 3y ago> he lost his original insurance carrier, they stopped writing policies in FL. The personal injury lawyers in Florida are out of control. I'm a little skeptical, this reminds me of past arguments of "blame malpractice lawsuits for exploding US medical costs, tort reform will fix it", which doesn't seem to have worked in the places where it was tried. AFAICT most of the reasons insurers are pulling out of Florida involves the math around catastrophes like hurricanes.
- dpkirchner 3y agoI wonder what they'd do if you contacted GM et al to report that you've sold your car to some made up person. Would they wait until they get official notice from your local government to change where the data is recorded?