6 ms·

My biggest fear. The nightmares I had for years after reading. They returned, years later, when observing Alzheimer's from up close, in family members. No way o

My biggest fear. The nightmares I had for years after reading. They returned, years later, when observing Alzheimer's from up close, in family members. No way out, no cure. Memory, reasoning capabilities, character, everything that makes you yourself decline, disappear; you're still breathing, but you're more dead day after day. And then, when you stop being aware of all that... does it make it better? or worse? I don't want to imagine this. Two follow-ups: "Rainbows End" by V. Vinge. Maybe there'll be a cure. Or "Choosing to Die" by Terry Pratchett. Maybe there's no cure and there won't be. At least, you can decide to go on your own terms, as a person still, not a vegetable yet.

nanolith 3y ago
I'm of the belief that in such a situation, a pre-cognitive decline "living will" or dead man switch is appropriate. If I were diagnosed with dementia, I'd build automation to ensure that I'd appear to die a natural death when I enter the steep slope of cognitive decline. It's as easy as tying the results of frequent cognitive tests into a moving average that triggers my medication dispenser to start mixing in a toxin and or substituting key medication that keeps me alive with a sugar pill. These days, without the right medication, I'd be dead from "natural causes" in a week.
- irrational 3y ago
  How would you do it if you didn't take any medication? The most medication I've ever needed to take is an aspirin once or twice a year. I'm trying to think what other method I could use in place of substituting mediation.
  - nanolith 3y ago
    Well, I would strongly advocate that such a system be used only after a diagnosis, at which point, you would be placed on medications to slow the progression. At that point, this would be seen as a rather innocuous thing by family members, since it's a machine meant to help you to remember to take medication that you need to help with your dementia. I have considered other machines -- again, as a theoretical exercise -- but ultimately, my decision process was that it had to maintain the plausible deniability to family members that I just died of natural causes. Allowing family to believe that I opted out because I felt that I was a burden would certainly lead to trauma beyond death from natural causes or an accident. I'm a strong believer in having the power of euthanasia. Part of the reason why dementia frightens me is because it would strip me of this agency. I currently suffer from heart failure, and dementia is a comorbidity in the later stages. Being able to choose a dignified end, hopefully in 30-40 years, is important to me.
- _yb2s 3y ago
  Having ADHD I've often wondered how I could even do a deadman switch. I'd eventually forget to renew it when I was otherwise perfectly fine.
  - extragood 3y ago
    There was something I was supposed to do today.. huh. Must not have been important. << KILLBOT ACTIVATING >> oh no
    - Diris 3y ago
      Gosh, this made me laugh out loud. Thanks XD
  - nanolith 3y ago
    It really has to be part of the routine, and there needs to be automated nagging in place to ensure that it goes off due to programmed conditions, and not due to neglect. I think this is especially important in cases of dementia. Daily routines will become one of the last things to go, as long as there is good nagware in place to keep you in line. I use nagware to remind me to take my medication, do my Duolingo practice, do my nightly checkins to GitHub, feed the various critters that don't or won't remind me themselves, and do my various work rituals. Weekly, monthly, and annual reminders (doctor appointments and birthdays) are also important.
- niemandhier 3y ago
  I have an assisted-suicide packt with my wife, that is probably the easiest solution.
  - nanolith 3y ago
    For sure, if you can trust your partner to assist you with this, and if you can guarantee that your partner will not face legal consequences, this would be a great option. Dementia poses a legal wrinkle, in that in many jurisdictions, assisted suicide requires consent at the time of the procedure. In many states in the US, especially in the south, assisted suicide is a boogeyman that runs against prevalent religious beliefs. In this case, someone with diminished capacity may be seen as unable to give consent, which could land the assistant in legal trouble. This is why I like the idea of automation that acts on objective measures, with fail safes in place. Likewise, if after "doing the deed", the system erases itself and the firmware on the pill dispenser is glitched out, then the whole thing can look like an accident. A letter can be sent ahead of time to the family attorney, only to be opened under suspicion of foul play, which can clear up any potential investigatory wrinkles if law enforcement gets involved.
    - badRNG 3y ago
      I'm fairly certain in the US you cannot legally consent to being killed.
      - thesh4d0w 3y ago
        Wikipedia has a map - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide_in_the_United...
      - nanolith 3y ago
        It depends on the jurisdiction. A half dozen states now permit assisted suicide in the case of terminal illness. There's also an interesting bit of case law and state statutes that deals with "drug cocktails", which when combined, will lead to death. A physician can prescribe these in certain places without getting in trouble if certain criteria have been met. Either way, where this is legal, it requires that the person be of the capacity to consent, which someone with dementia cannot do.
- credit_guy 3y ago
  > It's as easy as tying the results of frequent cognitive tests into a moving average that triggers my medication dispenser to start mixing in a toxin You appear to me to be the type who never writes any bugs in their code.
  - nanolith 3y ago
    Or, someone who would thoroughly test such a system and formally verify it long before use, as it would literally be a life or death thing...
    - pc86 3y ago
      Oh right we'll just "formally verify it," all good then!
      - klibertp 3y ago
        What's closer to "bug-free" (here, inside the cave) than formally verified software running on verified hardware in a distributed[1] system? [1] Because "you can't type-check being hit by lightning"...
      - lapetitejort 3y ago
        It works on my brain
- Analemma_ 3y ago
  That's fine in theory, but the problem is that many, possibly most, Alzheimer's patients report that they are happy and don't want to die, even well into severe cases. Whose preference should get priority, past you or present you? Maybe the internal experience of severe Alzheimer's isn't as bad as you are imagining, but if your living will is ironclad, by the time you realize that you'd have no way to signal it, and so you just get murdered.
  - nanolith 3y ago
    The consciousness living in my body at that point may very well be happy, but that consciousness would not be me. I'd be gone, except perhaps in rare instances of lucidity. Sure, there is a Ship of Theseus argument to be had here, but I am very much opposed to being a burden on my loved ones, and if nothing were to change with my mind, that opposition would remain. I've seen first-hand the suffering that Alzheimer's inflicts on loved ones, and that's not something I would EVER consent to while in my right mind. The very idea horrifies me. That the alien consciousness that would be inhabiting my body at that point doesn't want to die, and holds a few of my memories, is of little consequence to me. Even if this experience is pleasant, at that point, it's not my experience -- what little of "me" is left to experience it -- that I care about.
    - danielheath 3y ago
      If the old you is already dead - why should it get to decide whether or not to kill the new one, which wants to go on living.
      - nanolith 3y ago
        It's not about me, it's about the trauma that my husk causes to loved ones. I'm a firm believer in euthanasia. I should get the choice while I am able to make that choice. If future me had the capacity to choose, future me would choose the same.
        surfaceofthesun 3y ago
- butlike 3y ago
  I've been thinking about the question: "where will all the people go?" and instead of you having to do all that. Why don't we just pair the serial killers with the people who want to die? The right-to-die folks get what they want, and the "serial killer"-types get to pull the proverbial trigger, and we get to interview them after.
hattmall 3y ago
Would you prefer to suffer through something like cancer, fully aware of your decline and unable to do anything but with the will to do so? Or just be completely unaware of what is going on but not necessarily in poor health? Dementia is certainly terrible in a unique and disturbing way for the afflicted and people that care about them, but Im not so sure some of the more understandable alternatives would be preferable.
- user_7832 3y ago
  If you're asking what's worse, body dying with a a good mind, or mind dying eg in dementia but good body, the answer is almost 100% the latter being worse. I know someone who had Alzheimer's. Was in excellent physical shape, had biomarkers of someone 20 years younger. Would go for daily walks for decades, consistently did yoga etc. The issue, with late stage Alzheimer's (and possibly dementia in general), is that the brain starts to forget so many things it's not even funny (it never was). You forget to swallow water. You forget to chew food. You forget what the bathroom is for. It's far from "living with dignity", even if the body is still physically capable. I think lock-in syndrome is the only other medical situation I'd consider similarly traumatizing.
  - Ntrails 3y ago
    > It's far from "living with dignity", even if the body is still physically capable. It would be abhorrent if you understood what was going on, but if you did you wouldn't be in that state. I'm not sure whether in general terms Dementia is as traumatic for the sufferer as the observer who attaches value to a historical person (who for all intents and purposes is gone)
    - vidarh 3y ago
      There's often a long overlap, though. Both my grandmothers died with Alzheimers. We'lll never know how long they knew, but in retrospect it's clear they knew of the decline for quite some time. My mothers mother avoided hospital until it became too apparent to everyone around here that my grandfather tricker her. She'd make jokes about her failing memory for years, and while some of it might have been genuine, in retrospect odds are she noticed it was getting bad and was obscuring it with humour. For years afterwards, she would forget conversations partway through them, but clearly be aware that something was wrong. E.g. for some time she recognised me, but would wonder when I got there and how long I'd been there, and occasionally my name and who I was would slip, but she was otherwise lucid enough to understand that this was not normal. My dads mother managed to hide the decline until one day my grandfather was going in to hospital for a minor operation, and she refused to get out of bed. The last time I saw her before that, she seemed lucid and held a conversation. I never had another conversation with her, though she lived another decade - she went non-verbal almost overnight, but it was clear this wasn't some sudden physical change; she'd held it together until then, and gave up. It might be her cognitive decline was faster, and less cruel, but we really don't know if it was, or if she just managed to conceal it until the very brink. How much after that she managed to hold on to enough to recognise any of us - including her husband we don't know, because shortly after she went non-verbal she mostly stopped moving. But one of the cruelest parts of Alzheimers is what it does for those left behind - my grandfather spent a whole decade in his 70's and 80's walking to the nursing home, sitting with her all day, every day, then walking home, after she was for all intents and purposes gone.
at_a_remove 3y ago
Throw in the late Edward Wellen's "Mind Slash Matter" for another variation.
fairity 3y ago
Too many of us are attached to our intelligence. I love this story bc it's a reminder that we should value personal excellence over intelligence. By personal excellence I mean making the most of the intelligence you’re given. The arc of intelligence in Flowers of Algernon is the same arc we’ll all experience over our lifetime. With old age, we all lose our mental faculties. If we value intelligence, in and of itself, that loss will be very painful. But, if we value making the most of our intelligence, we are resilient. Applying this framework to Charlie, there’s much less to be sad about. He made the most of the intelligence he was gifted, and that’s what really matters.
- the_af 3y ago
  > Too many of us are attached to our intelligence I think Alzheimer's is scary because it's not just about intelligence. If it was just that you become dumb(er), I wouldn't mind it that much. I must be an exception, but beyond a certain threshold (I wouldn't want to be drooling idiot) I'm not that attached to my intelligence. I'm painfully aware that I'm average and that I had the luck of having an education and a stable home that other, more intelligent but less fortunate people than me, didn't. I think Alzheimer's is scary because your whole personality goes. Cognitive functions. Memory. You stop being independent. You cannot do the simplest things by yourself. Things become scary and you're not sure why. You are alone, surrounded by strangers. If there was a progressive illness where you got less intelligent, but still able to function and tell who your loved ones are, remember things, and at least understand where you are and your new place in the world, to me it wouldn't be half as scary as Alzheimer's.
  - eszed 3y ago
    I can corroborate your insight from personal experience. I had a stroke a few years back and, while I was recovering, my intelligence was drastically reduced. I always derived a great deal of my identity and self-worth from being "smart", and would have predicted that operating at maybe 25% capacity would be devastating. In fact, it wasn't. I was aware (certainly!) that I was operating at a deficit, but I still felt like myself. I was able to love and feel loved, experience joy, and humour, and enjoy good food, and watch movies and sports on TV. About all I couldn't do was read (well, I could read, but I couldn't follow complex prose), which sucked, but nearly all of what made me me, and made life worth living, was unaffected. Intelligence is overrated. Your description of dementia, however, is only true from the outside. Prior to that stage, I passed through a period of about a week where I was completely absent. I was able to behave coherently for short periods of time, but I wasn't creating any memories. It's a blank. (I have text threads saved with friends where I tell them what's happened and where I was, carry on for a bit, and then loop back to the beginning.) If identity is a pattern both stable and self-modifying over time - which, based on this experience, I believe it to be - then I had ceased exist. I've made an agreement with my wife that, should I become demented in old age, she should feel no moral compulsion towards any course of action. She's welcome to keep whatever is left of me around so long as it gives her joy, but "I" will no longer be present, and whatever happens to whatever is left no longer matters. As far as I'm concerned she should warehouse, or (better, though unfortunately not legal where we live) euthanase my body, and get on with doing something useful with her time.
foobarian 3y ago
I always thought it would be neat if there were some dangerous or lethal jobs that people like this could sign up for and go out in a blaze of glory. I know I'd sign up! Like Spock fixing that warp core :-)
- lainga 3y ago
  cf. the many elderly who volunteered to clean up at Fukushima
  - hathawsh 3y ago
    Fascinating. Here's one article about them: https://www.npr.org/2011/09/12/140402430/japanese-seniors-send-us-to-damaged-nuclear-plant https://www.npr.org/2011/09/12/140402430/japanese-seniors-se...
  - metalliqaz 3y ago
    I don't think they expected to die from it, though. More so that they knew they would die of old age before they could develop cancer from it.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
  Maybe Spock was just playing the long game. Knew he would be resurrected by space magic and get to pon farr with the rescue party.
chaostheory 3y ago
There are preventative measures. The easiest and cheapest one is cardio exercise. I can’t run anymore, but I find the Quest VR headset to be a great way to do cardio workouts since you’re just playing video games. Much easier to do and less excuses than having to go to the gym.
- klibertp 3y ago
  Thank you. I felt for years that this is the way to go: I hate moving without purpose, and "being fit" is too abstract a goal for me to keep at it. But I don't mind at all moving to accomplish something, and honestly, getting a high-score in a game is as good a "something" as anything. I read a few opinions like yours, unfortunately, most were drowned in "VR doomerism" (doesn't work, too big, too heavy, motion sickness, low res, etc. etc.) - but I'm now at the point where it's becoming more and more apparent that I have to do something. You just gave me the final nudge and I firmly decided to try VR for cardio. Thanks :)

nanolith 3y ago

I'm of the belief that in such a situation, a pre-cognitive decline "living will" or dead man switch is appropriate. If I were diagnosed with dementia, I'd build automation to ensure that I'd appear to die a natural death when I enter the steep slope of cognitive decline. It's as easy as tying the results of frequent cognitive tests into a moving average that triggers my medication dispenser to start mixing in a toxin and or substituting key medication that keeps me alive with a sugar pill. These days, without the right medication, I'd be dead from "natural causes" in a week.

irrational 3y ago
How would you do it if you didn't take any medication? The most medication I've ever needed to take is an aspirin once or twice a year. I'm trying to think what other method I could use in place of substituting mediation.
- nanolith 3y ago
  Well, I would strongly advocate that such a system be used only after a diagnosis, at which point, you would be placed on medications to slow the progression. At that point, this would be seen as a rather innocuous thing by family members, since it's a machine meant to help you to remember to take medication that you need to help with your dementia. I have considered other machines -- again, as a theoretical exercise -- but ultimately, my decision process was that it had to maintain the plausible deniability to family members that I just died of natural causes. Allowing family to believe that I opted out because I felt that I was a burden would certainly lead to trauma beyond death from natural causes or an accident. I'm a strong believer in having the power of euthanasia. Part of the reason why dementia frightens me is because it would strip me of this agency. I currently suffer from heart failure, and dementia is a comorbidity in the later stages. Being able to choose a dignified end, hopefully in 30-40 years, is important to me.
_yb2s 3y ago
Having ADHD I've often wondered how I could even do a deadman switch. I'd eventually forget to renew it when I was otherwise perfectly fine.
- extragood 3y ago
  There was something I was supposed to do today.. huh. Must not have been important. << KILLBOT ACTIVATING >> oh no
  - Diris 3y ago
    Gosh, this made me laugh out loud. Thanks XD
- nanolith 3y ago
  It really has to be part of the routine, and there needs to be automated nagging in place to ensure that it goes off due to programmed conditions, and not due to neglect. I think this is especially important in cases of dementia. Daily routines will become one of the last things to go, as long as there is good nagware in place to keep you in line. I use nagware to remind me to take my medication, do my Duolingo practice, do my nightly checkins to GitHub, feed the various critters that don't or won't remind me themselves, and do my various work rituals. Weekly, monthly, and annual reminders (doctor appointments and birthdays) are also important.
niemandhier 3y ago
I have an assisted-suicide packt with my wife, that is probably the easiest solution.
- nanolith 3y ago
  For sure, if you can trust your partner to assist you with this, and if you can guarantee that your partner will not face legal consequences, this would be a great option. Dementia poses a legal wrinkle, in that in many jurisdictions, assisted suicide requires consent at the time of the procedure. In many states in the US, especially in the south, assisted suicide is a boogeyman that runs against prevalent religious beliefs. In this case, someone with diminished capacity may be seen as unable to give consent, which could land the assistant in legal trouble. This is why I like the idea of automation that acts on objective measures, with fail safes in place. Likewise, if after "doing the deed", the system erases itself and the firmware on the pill dispenser is glitched out, then the whole thing can look like an accident. A letter can be sent ahead of time to the family attorney, only to be opened under suspicion of foul play, which can clear up any potential investigatory wrinkles if law enforcement gets involved.
  - badRNG 3y ago
    I'm fairly certain in the US you cannot legally consent to being killed.
    - thesh4d0w 3y ago
      Wikipedia has a map - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_suicide_in_the_United...
    - nanolith 3y ago
      It depends on the jurisdiction. A half dozen states now permit assisted suicide in the case of terminal illness. There's also an interesting bit of case law and state statutes that deals with "drug cocktails", which when combined, will lead to death. A physician can prescribe these in certain places without getting in trouble if certain criteria have been met. Either way, where this is legal, it requires that the person be of the capacity to consent, which someone with dementia cannot do.
credit_guy 3y ago
> It's as easy as tying the results of frequent cognitive tests into a moving average that triggers my medication dispenser to start mixing in a toxin You appear to me to be the type who never writes any bugs in their code.
- nanolith 3y ago
  Or, someone who would thoroughly test such a system and formally verify it long before use, as it would literally be a life or death thing...
  - pc86 3y ago
    Oh right we'll just "formally verify it," all good then!
    - klibertp 3y ago
      What's closer to "bug-free" (here, inside the cave) than formally verified software running on verified hardware in a distributed[1] system? [1] Because "you can't type-check being hit by lightning"...
    - lapetitejort 3y ago
      It works on my brain
Analemma_ 3y ago
That's fine in theory, but the problem is that many, possibly most, Alzheimer's patients report that they are happy and don't want to die, even well into severe cases. Whose preference should get priority, past you or present you? Maybe the internal experience of severe Alzheimer's isn't as bad as you are imagining, but if your living will is ironclad, by the time you realize that you'd have no way to signal it, and so you just get murdered.
- nanolith 3y ago
  The consciousness living in my body at that point may very well be happy, but that consciousness would not be me. I'd be gone, except perhaps in rare instances of lucidity. Sure, there is a Ship of Theseus argument to be had here, but I am very much opposed to being a burden on my loved ones, and if nothing were to change with my mind, that opposition would remain. I've seen first-hand the suffering that Alzheimer's inflicts on loved ones, and that's not something I would EVER consent to while in my right mind. The very idea horrifies me. That the alien consciousness that would be inhabiting my body at that point doesn't want to die, and holds a few of my memories, is of little consequence to me. Even if this experience is pleasant, at that point, it's not my experience -- what little of "me" is left to experience it -- that I care about.
  - danielheath 3y ago
    If the old you is already dead - why should it get to decide whether or not to kill the new one, which wants to go on living.
    - nanolith 3y ago
      It's not about me, it's about the trauma that my husk causes to loved ones. I'm a firm believer in euthanasia. I should get the choice while I am able to make that choice. If future me had the capacity to choose, future me would choose the same.
      - surfaceofthesun 3y ago
butlike 3y ago
I've been thinking about the question: "where will all the people go?" and instead of you having to do all that. Why don't we just pair the serial killers with the people who want to die? The right-to-die folks get what they want, and the "serial killer"-types get to pull the proverbial trigger, and we get to interview them after.

hattmall 3y ago

Would you prefer to suffer through something like cancer, fully aware of your decline and unable to do anything but with the will to do so? Or just be completely unaware of what is going on but not necessarily in poor health? Dementia is certainly terrible in a unique and disturbing way for the afflicted and people that care about them, but Im not so sure some of the more understandable alternatives would be preferable.

user_7832 3y ago
If you're asking what's worse, body dying with a a good mind, or mind dying eg in dementia but good body, the answer is almost 100% the latter being worse. I know someone who had Alzheimer's. Was in excellent physical shape, had biomarkers of someone 20 years younger. Would go for daily walks for decades, consistently did yoga etc. The issue, with late stage Alzheimer's (and possibly dementia in general), is that the brain starts to forget so many things it's not even funny (it never was). You forget to swallow water. You forget to chew food. You forget what the bathroom is for. It's far from "living with dignity", even if the body is still physically capable. I think lock-in syndrome is the only other medical situation I'd consider similarly traumatizing.
- Ntrails 3y ago
  > It's far from "living with dignity", even if the body is still physically capable. It would be abhorrent if you understood what was going on, but if you did you wouldn't be in that state. I'm not sure whether in general terms Dementia is as traumatic for the sufferer as the observer who attaches value to a historical person (who for all intents and purposes is gone)
  - vidarh 3y ago
    There's often a long overlap, though. Both my grandmothers died with Alzheimers. We'lll never know how long they knew, but in retrospect it's clear they knew of the decline for quite some time. My mothers mother avoided hospital until it became too apparent to everyone around here that my grandfather tricker her. She'd make jokes about her failing memory for years, and while some of it might have been genuine, in retrospect odds are she noticed it was getting bad and was obscuring it with humour. For years afterwards, she would forget conversations partway through them, but clearly be aware that something was wrong. E.g. for some time she recognised me, but would wonder when I got there and how long I'd been there, and occasionally my name and who I was would slip, but she was otherwise lucid enough to understand that this was not normal. My dads mother managed to hide the decline until one day my grandfather was going in to hospital for a minor operation, and she refused to get out of bed. The last time I saw her before that, she seemed lucid and held a conversation. I never had another conversation with her, though she lived another decade - she went non-verbal almost overnight, but it was clear this wasn't some sudden physical change; she'd held it together until then, and gave up. It might be her cognitive decline was faster, and less cruel, but we really don't know if it was, or if she just managed to conceal it until the very brink. How much after that she managed to hold on to enough to recognise any of us - including her husband we don't know, because shortly after she went non-verbal she mostly stopped moving. But one of the cruelest parts of Alzheimers is what it does for those left behind - my grandfather spent a whole decade in his 70's and 80's walking to the nursing home, sitting with her all day, every day, then walking home, after she was for all intents and purposes gone.

at_a_remove 3y ago

Throw in the late Edward Wellen's "Mind Slash Matter" for another variation.

fairity 3y ago

Too many of us are attached to our intelligence. I love this story bc it's a reminder that we should value personal excellence over intelligence. By personal excellence I mean making the most of the intelligence you’re given. The arc of intelligence in Flowers of Algernon is the same arc we’ll all experience over our lifetime. With old age, we all lose our mental faculties. If we value intelligence, in and of itself, that loss will be very painful. But, if we value making the most of our intelligence, we are resilient. Applying this framework to Charlie, there’s much less to be sad about. He made the most of the intelligence he was gifted, and that’s what really matters.

the_af 3y ago
> Too many of us are attached to our intelligence I think Alzheimer's is scary because it's not just about intelligence. If it was just that you become dumb(er), I wouldn't mind it that much. I must be an exception, but beyond a certain threshold (I wouldn't want to be drooling idiot) I'm not that attached to my intelligence. I'm painfully aware that I'm average and that I had the luck of having an education and a stable home that other, more intelligent but less fortunate people than me, didn't. I think Alzheimer's is scary because your whole personality goes. Cognitive functions. Memory. You stop being independent. You cannot do the simplest things by yourself. Things become scary and you're not sure why. You are alone, surrounded by strangers. If there was a progressive illness where you got less intelligent, but still able to function and tell who your loved ones are, remember things, and at least understand where you are and your new place in the world, to me it wouldn't be half as scary as Alzheimer's.
- eszed 3y ago
  I can corroborate your insight from personal experience. I had a stroke a few years back and, while I was recovering, my intelligence was drastically reduced. I always derived a great deal of my identity and self-worth from being "smart", and would have predicted that operating at maybe 25% capacity would be devastating. In fact, it wasn't. I was aware (certainly!) that I was operating at a deficit, but I still felt like myself. I was able to love and feel loved, experience joy, and humour, and enjoy good food, and watch movies and sports on TV. About all I couldn't do was read (well, I could read, but I couldn't follow complex prose), which sucked, but nearly all of what made me me, and made life worth living, was unaffected. Intelligence is overrated. Your description of dementia, however, is only true from the outside. Prior to that stage, I passed through a period of about a week where I was completely absent. I was able to behave coherently for short periods of time, but I wasn't creating any memories. It's a blank. (I have text threads saved with friends where I tell them what's happened and where I was, carry on for a bit, and then loop back to the beginning.) If identity is a pattern both stable and self-modifying over time - which, based on this experience, I believe it to be - then I had ceased exist. I've made an agreement with my wife that, should I become demented in old age, she should feel no moral compulsion towards any course of action. She's welcome to keep whatever is left of me around so long as it gives her joy, but "I" will no longer be present, and whatever happens to whatever is left no longer matters. As far as I'm concerned she should warehouse, or (better, though unfortunately not legal where we live) euthanase my body, and get on with doing something useful with her time.

foobarian 3y ago

I always thought it would be neat if there were some dangerous or lethal jobs that people like this could sign up for and go out in a blaze of glory. I know I'd sign up! Like Spock fixing that warp core :-)

lainga 3y ago
cf. the many elderly who volunteered to clean up at Fukushima
- hathawsh 3y ago
  Fascinating. Here's one article about them: https://www.npr.org/2011/09/12/140402430/japanese-seniors-send-us-to-damaged-nuclear-plant https://www.npr.org/2011/09/12/140402430/japanese-seniors-se...
- metalliqaz 3y ago
  I don't think they expected to die from it, though. More so that they knew they would die of old age before they could develop cancer from it.
0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
Maybe Spock was just playing the long game. Knew he would be resurrected by space magic and get to pon farr with the rescue party.

chaostheory 3y ago

There are preventative measures. The easiest and cheapest one is cardio exercise. I can’t run anymore, but I find the Quest VR headset to be a great way to do cardio workouts since you’re just playing video games. Much easier to do and less excuses than having to go to the gym.

klibertp 3y ago
Thank you. I felt for years that this is the way to go: I hate moving without purpose, and "being fit" is too abstract a goal for me to keep at it. But I don't mind at all moving to accomplish something, and honestly, getting a high-score in a game is as good a "something" as anything. I read a few opinions like yours, unfortunately, most were drowned in "VR doomerism" (doesn't work, too big, too heavy, motion sickness, low res, etc. etc.) - but I'm now at the point where it's becoming more and more apparent that I have to do something. You just gave me the final nudge and I firmly decided to try VR for cardio. Thanks :)