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Miles Davis and the recording of Kind of Blue
- cdme 3y agoAn undeniable classic, but I remain partial to Bitches Brew.
- AdmiralAsshat 3y agoI'm more of a Dark Magus guy, myself.
- wk_end 3y agoIn A Silent Way for me. What a brilliant musician.
- AlecSchueler 3y agoThis is the one album that I can never say no to if it pops up in my recommendations.
- cdme 3y agoAlso a fantastic choice — I love so many of his albums for different reasons.
- aEJ04Izw5HYm 3y agoMe too. While I appreciate why kind of blue and bitches brew are celebrated the way they are, the journey of in a silent way, to me is still unparalleled.
- jelavich 3y agoI’ve come to love all sides of Miles.
- WalterSear 3y agoI recently dicovered that he played on lots of other artists records that I have yet to listen to.
- asaph 3y agoThat album is more challenging to appreciate for listeners new to jazz, while Kind of Blue is immediately accessible to mainstream listeners.
- Capricorn2481 3y agoI've had the opposite experience. Kind of Blue never grabbed me. I've always been drawn to Avant Garde jazz first and foremost. I was introduced to it via Flying Lotus and heard him mention BB in an interview. I recognize that Kind of Blue is a beloved album, but I've listened to BB a hundred times.
- d12345m 3y agoIf you're a fan of both Flying Lotus and Bitches Brew, you should check out Miles Davis' album On The Corner, which came out two years after Bitches Brew. It feels like a direct precursor to hip-hop and a lot of the sample-based music that gained popularity in the 1980s, partly due to the tape splicing and looping that was done in the studio and partly because of the extremely wide set of influences that got stirred together on that record. It still sounds fantastically weird.
- Capricorn2481 3y agoAwesome, I'll check that out
- karmelapple 3y agoStrangely, I first heard BB, all thanks to Napster. I just thought that is what jazz sounded like when I was very young, since I hadn't heard much of it at all except what came on our local NPR radio station. It took me a few days on a 56k modem (thanks to failed downloads) to finally get one of the full 20+ minute tracks from the album. I think it might have been Pharoah's Dance mislabeled as the track BB... so many mislabeled songs on Napster back then. This was around the time the Complete BB Sessions [1] came out... so that was one of the first albums I ever asked my parents for as a gift. A few years after I got the album, I was traveling to a city, and while walking around downtown I heard one sound that sounded like it was identical to a sound from Pharoah's Dance. Whether intentional or not, I thought some of the cacophony of these tracks was intended to represent the chaotic energy that a big city can have. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Bitches_Brew_Sessions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Bitches_Brew_Sess...
- jeffbee 3y agoI can't take that record off the shelf without thinking of this CBS memo. https://i.imgur.com/2GMwXPo.jpg https://i.imgur.com/2GMwXPo.jpg
- cdme 3y agoI’ve never seen this before — love it. Thanks.
- squidsoup 3y agoWhat's remarkable about Bitches Brew to me, is that in many ways Miles was a traditionalist, and yet his foray into the avant garde was more successful than most of his contemporaries.
- WarOnPrivacy 3y ago> What's remarkable about Bitches Brew to me, is that in many ways Miles was a traditionalist, and yet his foray into the avant garde... John McLaughlin was how I wound up at Bitches Brew - and got introduced to Miles. BB was a departure from the early JMC I was used to and it took me a while to bite into it. Hearing Holland and DeJohnette helped. A few years later I was all in. Saw Miles on my 19th bday.
- dhosek 3y agoWhich, in many ways is a polar opposite to Kind of Blue. Whereas Kind of Blue is comprised almost entirely of first takes, Bitches Brew was assembled in the editing room, pulling together multiple takes and pieces to form the tracks on the album.
- karmelapple 3y agoThis was eye-opening to me in reading the thick booklet that came with the Complete BB Sessions: how editing was a big part of the output. But on re-listening, I could hear it immediately. And then I appreciated all the more what a good edit can do for music.
- tiahura 3y agoMy favorite was his work on Miami Vice. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLyqgd-KTRM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kLyqgd-KTRM
- aworks 3y agoI think Kind of Blue is a better album but I listen to Bitches Brew more often, maybe due to greater variety of song and texture. The former is like swinging, poignant velvet, the latter a swirling, electronic groove.
- richardfontana 3y agoI actually now think that Miles's best work was his early stuff, before _Kind of Blue_, but that has to do with changes in my general preferences around jazz.
- mturmon 3y agoWho wouldn’t love them both. But I’m partial to Miles from the Bitches Brew era as well. I really got hooked on the reissue of the “bootleg“ 1969 European concerts a few years back. It gave a whole new perspective on his style in those years, it’s different than BB in some ways.
- seanhunter 3y agoIf you like Bitches Brew, I would advise checking out "Miles Davis at Fillmore: Live at the Fillmore East" [1] (ideally the 1997 reissue rather than the original which was pretty heavily edited). It's like if someone took Bitches Brew and wanted to make it even more intense and hostile. Genuinely terrifying, amazing music. [1] https://www.discogs.com/fr/release/5036048-Miles-Davis-Miles-Davis-At-Fillmore-Live-At-The-Fillmore-East https://www.discogs.com/fr/release/5036048-Miles-Davis-Miles...
- PhunkyPhil 3y agoLondon Brew is also a very fun album. A lot of elements of BB are clearly evident but they ramp up the chaos and make it more "scary", while incorporating some things like electric guitar and more modern production.
- wiredfool 3y agoI'm partial to Cookin. So I guess I'm on team early Miles.
- rplnt 3y agoThe preface reminded me of the Koln Concert, which is apparently the best selling piano album/recording. And the story behind it is quite interesting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_K%C3%B6ln_Concert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_K%C3%B6ln_Concert
- donbrae 3y agoAnd soon to be a film: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20414360 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20414360.
- simonw 3y agoTip for San Francisco Bay Area Jazz fans: I just found out about https://bachddsoc.org/ https://bachddsoc.org/ in Half Moon Bay - an apparently legendary jazz venue that's been hosting world-class musicians since the 1950s. I went on Sunday and it was fantastic - a really quirky venue, great music. I think it may be one of the Bay Area's best kept secrets.
- ashxel 3y agofor sure. saw vijay iyer trio there 6 years ago and it was very memorable.
- resters 3y agowow I used to live near there and somehow missed it. Looks great!
- bitbckt 3y agoThere aren’t many of these venues left. Keep showing up!
- cphaynes 3y agoVery true. My favorite jazz club anywhere is in Boston: https://wallyscafe.com/ https://wallyscafe.com/ I'm glad to see it's packed (albeit only holds ~25-30 people), nearly 365 days of the year.
- AlbertCory 3y agoNot a secret, but I haven't thought about it in 20 years. I didn't realize it was still going (maybe that's sort of a secret!)
- hypertexthero 3y agoWonderful place!! Got into jazz when I lived in Oakland and I still miss Jerry Dean and KJAZ: http://timhodges.net/SPIRIT/index1.html http://timhodges.net/SPIRIT/index1.html Eventually learned about Django Reinhardt, which led me to Django the web framework and the rest of your and Jacob’s work: https://jacobian.org/help/ https://jacobian.org/help/ Thanks so much, Simon!
- LargeWu 3y agoThe book "Kind of Blue: The Making of a Miles Davis Masterpiece" by Ashley Cole is great if you're into this album. One of the most notable things about this album is that, while there were a few false starts, they used the first complete take for each track, which is astounding. I personally think it's the greatest achievement in the history of music.
- AlecSchueler 3y agoThe autobiography is also a phenomenal book while we're on that topic.
- AlbertCory 3y agoNormally, I roll my eyes at claims of something being "the greatest ever." However, I think this one is a defensible claim. I like Miles' quote about it: "If I'd known it was going to be such a hit, I'd have asked for more money." I always wonder what they thought at the time. "Well, I guess that was pretty good." maybe?
- tohnjitor 3y agoIt would have been quite expensive to try for a second or third take. You're paying for the room, for the tape, and for at least one engineer and probably another guy, and except for the tape, it's all per hour. They had likely played together enough that they planned to just do one take unless there was a hiccup.
- AlbertCory 3y agoMr. Tambourine Man took 3 takes, and that used studio musicians.
- LargeWu 3y agoThe thing about this album though was that it used a groundbreaking style of playing in a single mode, no chord changes. This was completely counter to anything ever heard in the jazz world before. Nor had they practiced these songs before. For them to sit down and record what they did, the first time, is pretty unbelievable.
- johnea 3y agoEpic album and article! It's great to see this on HN. It gives me a little more hope for the world...
- mp05 3y agoWhat an album! Aside from the hubris of asserting something so bold in the first place, it can not too controversial of a take to state that "Blue in Green" is the finest musical recording ever produced. If I had one, single song to take with me to a desert island, this is the one. The bowed bass at the end gives me chills every time.
- heleninboodler 3y agoI think there are several other tracks on the album tied for this same distinction. :)
- vjulian 3y agoOh—it’s not only me! I just commented on Blue in Green. Outside of that, the album overall has an association for me. I started buying jazz records in my teens in the 80s. No one guided my listening or made recommendations. I eventually came upon Kind of Blue and felt it was special. I had no idea how famous and well-loved it was. I find it interesting that even in a “blind taste test”, I converged with the critical massess.
- Tycho 3y agoSomeone posted a website to HN a year ago which took a track as input and then returned you a list of similar tracks based on the sonic qualities. I tried it with Blue in Green and it actually did supply a list of tonally, harmonically, musically similar tracks. None were as good, of course, but still it was good to get more of the same vibe.
- xrd 3y agoI'm hoping the jazz fans here will know the right answers to this question: where is the best place to see jazz in Tokyo? What about Kyoto?
- dodos 3y agoI've been having trouble finding good ones in Tokyo. Blue Note Tokyo seems nice but is pricey and often sold out far in advance. I've seen some others I'd like to go to, but they double as cigar bars and my lungs don't enjoy smoke.
- xrd 3y agoI had a really nice time seeing a jazz show at the Tower records last year. It was completely by chance, just happened to be there right when it happened. But I would like to be more intentional this next time. Thanks for your notes. I saw a guy play jazz in Miami two months ago and he lives in Tokyo. I'm going to see what he's up to and where he plays. Email me if you want to know what I find out.
- dumbo-octopus 3y agoIt seemed to me every "X" doubled as a "Smoking X" in Tokyo...
- ethbr1 3y agoBeing jetlagged and people-watching in a coffee shop as Tokyo woke up was eye opening. Newspapers and cigarettes wall to wall. Especially since Paris was substantially less smokey, for all the French stereotypes.
- porknubbins 3y agoI used to like jazz club Overseas in Osaka. Just a small place but very nice people. Also in Tokyo all my best experiences were at small intimate places where you got to know the owners or at least have a nice conversation about jazz with them.
- Daz1 3y ago
- brcmthrowaway 3y agoHow do I listen to it? Just seems like a mishmash of sounds.. I don't see the genius.
- heleninboodler 3y agoThis is a fascinating comment to me. I understand not really feeling jazz, but it doesn't even sound like a song to you? My only suggestion is to jump into the middle of a few songs and try to hear the rhythm and song structure. They can often be difficult to pick up when they start slow. All Blues might be the easiest. I sincerely wish you luck, because it's really incredible music.
- pie420 3y agoit's most likely someone baiting reactions on the internet by posting rage-bait disguised as naivety
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 3y agoHa, jokes on them! They're getting excellent and smart replies.
- heleninboodler 3y agoYou mean just for fun? I'm having a hard time imagining real value in doing something like karma-farming on HN. Not to mention, that would be more like anti-karma-farming.
- squidsoup 3y agoWalk through New York City. You will hear a "mishmash of sounds", and perhaps begin to understand.
- khazhoux 3y agoAnd make sure to wear a fedora and a sharp suit, tip the newsboy, and give a warm “heya fellas!” to the navy boys taking in Times Square.
- WalterSear 3y agoI recently read that Miles was delving deeply into the Lydian Chromatic concept when he was composing for this. I haven't been able to find out more about this, or how much it actually influenced him or his preparation for Kind of Blue, but it's about as strong an endorsement for Barry Harris's work as it gets.
- cbzbc 3y ago> I haven't been able to find out more about this, or how much it actually influenced him or his preparation for Kind of Blue, but it's about as strong an endorsement for Barry Harris's work as it gets. You mean George Russell? And my impression is that it was influential with Miles because it was one of the early examples of the modal/horizontal approach being fleshed out as text over and above it being LCC specifically. Harris' approach is based on what he calls the sixth diminished scale.
- WalterSear 3y agoDoh! I'm messing up my Jazz theorists. Yes, George Russell. Barry Harris just keeps popping up in my youtube algorithm.
- hamburglar 3y agoIt does seem like there is an explosion of Barry Harris enthusiasm on YouTube in the last 6 months or so. I was wondering if I’d done something to make my algorithm latch onto it.
- richardfontana 3y agoIndeed, I would say Barry Harris's music is characterized by a complete rejection of the George Russell legacy. Barry Harris's music is sort of like what jazz would have been like if _Kind of Blue_ had never happened.
- vjulian 3y agoThere are a few pieces of music that I avoid listening to too frequently. That’s because I find them to be too beautiful, too profound and—illogically—I don’t want to wear them out. Perhaps also because I find myself consistently in tears when listening to them, at times even when thinking about them (as I am now). One of those pieces is Blue In Green, as recorded for Kind of Blue. God Bless Bill Evans.
- appel 3y agoOut of curiosity and if you don't mind me asking, would you mind listing the others?
- vjulian 3y agoBeethoven quartet opus 135, especially the third movement. Several others, about an album or two worth of music. Ravel’s quartet is up there. I melt when I hear George Duke’s rhodes solo on Blessed Relief (a great piece overall). Stuff like that.
- smingo 3y agoBarber's Adagio for strings, although it gets referenced enough; Khachaturian's Spartacus and Phrygia, especially the brass version; Holst's planets, esp Uranus; Beethoven's 7th; Gorecki's 3rd.
- signalToNose 3y agoFor me it’s Bach: Erbarme dich, mein Gott. In this version: https://youtu.be/BBeXF_lnj_M?si=kPTUsAB19_RyECO5 https://youtu.be/BBeXF_lnj_M?si=kPTUsAB19_RyECO5
- dadoomer 3y agoSome of mine include Bach's violin partita 3, Beethoven's 9, and Mahler 1.
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- thangalin 3y agoFor folks wanting to learn a little more about the history of blues music, please have a read, look, and listen: https://dave.autonoma.ca/playlists/blues/dancing https://dave.autonoma.ca/playlists/blues/dancing Apparently there are issues with the videos on Safari/iPhone. A hint to a fix would be welcome.
- csmpltn 3y agoI’m classically trained, love all sorts of music, play live, jam and compose. I’ve went to countless jazz concerts and nights, and continue to do so today. I just don’t get jazz at all. It’s fun to mess around on stage, and play free form. But it also ends up sounding that way to the listener: like some mess that must be fun to play… I was stuck on a long drive a couple of years back, driver had Swissjazz FM on the whole time. Felt like a form of torture ;)
- tommysve 3y agoThere are so many different kinds of jazz. I guess you have not listened to Kind of Blue.
- zabzonk 3y agohave you actually listened to "kind of blue"? or (for e.g.) "sketches of spain"? i can't see how either could be classified as "some mess", though everyone's taste is different.
- GoofballJones 3y agoI like some of it, but I agree with you on most of jazz. Kind of Blue is great though. It really is something special. But as I say, I agree with you on most other Jazz though. And I'm convinced that about 80% of the people that go around saying they love jazz are just pretending to. Also, along with Bluegrass, jazz is SO closed off to people who'd like to join in and play with a group. It's filled with gatekeepers and judgemental jerks. For instance, criticizing you for bringing a guita they don't agree with, "you can't play jazz with that, go home and get another something else there, Eddie Van Halen". Seriously, it can be that bad.
- gvurrdon 3y ago> It's filled with gatekeepers and judgemental jerks. That's not been my experience playing jazz around my local area. I've never played jazz in New York but I have heard that all manner of ungentlemanly behaviour goes on in jams there and I suspect I'd be on the receiving end of it if I dared to try. Presumably acceptance of the newcomer is determined by the size of the existing pool of talent. Rural England is not well supplied with jazz musicians of any skill level (or discerning audiences) so we can't really afford to treat them rudely. I'm not really a guitarist, but the last time I played one at a jam it was one of these: https://www.andertons.co.uk/brands/gl-guitars/asat-guitars/g-l-tribute-asat-cl-bluesboy-semi-hollow-clear-orange-maple-fretboard https://www.andertons.co.uk/brands/gl-guitars/asat-guitars/g...
- aEJ04Izw5HYm 3y agoRadio Station: "Giants of Jazz" was an absolute revelation to me discovering only absolute classics over the past 50 years. 'In a silent way' is still my favourite MD album. Reading the "Miles:The autobiography" while listening through his discography was one of my favourite ever reading experiences, thoroughly recommended.
- thinkingtoilet 3y agoYou might enjoy this lovely little anecdote from John McLaughlin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sB5UkrkMu4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sB5UkrkMu4
- aEJ04Izw5HYm 3y agolol. He's like (silent) jazz (crack loving) Yoda. Man, I love in a silent way.
- InCityDreams 3y ago"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny"
- donatj 3y agoIs it a stylistic choice to refer to a “mic” as a “mike”? I’ve never seen that before.
- helloplanets 3y agoI'd assume. 'Mike' is a pretty common shorthand. Feels like it's more of an older generation thing to spell it like that, though.
- elbelcho 3y agoIf you're looking for a comprehensible to mortals explanation of the genius that can be found in Jazz, watch this explainer on Coltrane's Giant Steps. https://youtu.be/62tIvfP9A2w https://youtu.be/62tIvfP9A2w
- aczerepinski 3y agoFantastic record. It’s nice to see any kind of spotlight shined on jazz but don’t let nostalgia for the past stop you from discovering the elite music being created today. So many jazz message boards and higher ed curriculums focus exclusively on the jazz of the 40s and 50s. Miles for one would have disapproved.
- frakt0x90 3y agoStrongly agree. See artists such as Domi and JD Beck, Snarky Puppy, Jesus Molina, Sungazer, Greg Mehldau, Sullivan Fortner... The list goes on. There are some extremely great jazz musicians out there today.
- akrain 3y agoThanks for the suggestions. I will surely give them a try. The only recent Jazz musician that I have heard is Kamasi Washington.
- navbaker 3y agoJulian Lage and Kurt Rosenwinkle are another couple of guitarists to check out. Deep Song, by Kurt, and Gladwell, by Julian, are great entry points into their music!
- zeruch 3y agoKamasi is a current darling. Right now two schools are en vogue: a more fusiony, dancable crossover kind where groups like Snarky Puppy, Mononeon, Thundercat and Sungazer are up front, and a more traditionally anchored, but edgier sonic architecture is applied kind of school populated by Kamasi, James Hurt, Robert Glasper, Daniel Casimir, Shabaka Hutchings, and anything on the Brownswood or Jazz Re:freshed labels...
- xetplan 3y agoI would try Jazzmeia Horn on vocals. She is an absolute monster. Mark Guiliana on drums is as good as anyone ever too.
- kristofferR 3y agoKind of Bloop - An 8-Bit Tribute to Miles Davis' Kind of Blue https://kindofbloop.com/ https://kindofbloop.com/ Sidenote, the author was sued to oblivion for his tribute album art: https://waxy.org/2011/06/kind_of_screwed/ https://waxy.org/2011/06/kind_of_screwed/
- RaoulP 3y ago> https://waxy.org/2011/06/kind_of_screwed/ https://waxy.org/2011/06/kind_of_screwed/ That is crazy, and eye-opening. > It breaks my heart that a project I did for fun, on the side, and out of pure love and dedication to the source material ended up costing me so much — emotionally and financially. For me, the chilling effect is palpably real. I’ve felt irrationally skittish about publishing almost anything since this happened. I feel sad for the author.
- busfahrer 3y agoOne tip for beginning Jazz listeners that I’ve heard is to go through each of the musicians that played on Kind of Blue and listen to their own albums respectively, then recurse