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Yuzu emulator developers settle Nintendo lawsuit, pay $2.4M in damages
- ndiddy 3y agoLink to final judgement terms: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.rid.56980/gov.uscourts.rid.56980.10.1.pdf https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.rid.569... Basic summary is that the Yuzu developers agreed to shut down development, give their domain to Nintendo, and delete all copies that they posess of Yuzu and any other Switch hacking tools.
- thesnide 3y agoI immediatly had a chain of questions: * how will they pay $2M? * why did they settle for that much? * isn't strict emulation legal? Maybe not in the US... * is there something fishy that was hidden somewhere?
- aaomidi 3y ago> * how will they pay $2M? Probably patreon > * why did they settle for that much? Because Nintendo will just ruin their lives otherwise > * isn't strict emulation legal? Maybe not in the US... Thank you DMCA for ruining this scene. The federal government should not be the one interjecting itself into this area, but here we are. Because of the anti-circumvention rules of the DMCA, right to repair is completely broken. Heck, WV was able to hide them lying about emissions because of it.
- KomoD 3y ago> * how will they pay $2M? They actually made quite a bit of money, around ~$30k/mo from just Patreon, wouldn't surprise me if they had that much money. > * why did they settle for that much? Expensive to fight it, and if they lose they'd have to pay even more. Nintendo can go on forever, they have so much money and the best lawyers.
- waffleiron 3y ago30k a month is only (roughly rounded) 1 mill per 3 years. So that be 6 years income without spending, and it’s likely their income wasn’t always at this level.
- archy_ 3y agoTaxes will also eat away at that
- johnnyanmac 3y ago>how will they pay $2M? The same way Bowser did, I suppose. Wage garnishing + whatever Patreon money they earned? Apparently it's estimated to have made some $1.2 million from patreon so that may help >why did they settle for that much? Bad crooked lawyers that said they had no chance or very good lawyers that said they had no chance. IANAL, so I can't truly say which. > isn't strict emulation legal? Maybe not in the US... It is AFAIK, apparently the judgement's big argument here is >Developing or distributing software, including Yuzu, that in its ordinary course functions only when cryptographic keys are integrated without authorization, violates the Digital Millennium Copyright Act’s prohibition on trafficking in devices that circumvent effective technological measures, because the software is primarily designed for the purpose of circumventing technological measures. Again, I don't know how much water that holds. >is there something fishy that was hidden somewhere? Depends on if you think whether or not it would have cost more than $2.5m dollars to fight nintendo in a full battle. I imagine Yuzu doesn't have such funds nor means to. So this was the cheapest option for them.
- thesnide 3y agoI guess the fishy thing was the Patreon, which I was not aware of. Hell, I just even knew about Yuzu because of that lawsuit. #streisand
- darig 3y ago[dead]
- 1231232131231 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ipaddr 3y agoThey have paid themselves out already and will declare bankruptcy.
- OJFord 3y agoIf down voters want to explain their objection we'd probably all benefit - this may sound pithy but afaict parent is correct: Tropic Haize LLC is the defendant in TFA; LLC stands for Limited Liability Company. IANAL but this essentially means the company is on the hook for the damages, if it doesn't have that much then Nintendo probably becomes it's most senior creditor (gets paid first) in bankruptcy, but its directors (the emulator devs, presumably) are unlikely to be personally liable, at least wouldn't be in a judgement on this case. Settling would I assume imply that Nintendo thinks it is getting paid (won't bankrupt the company, or directors agreed to kick it in) though.
- throwaway48r7r 3y agoThey're about as likely to get paid as the poor sods the RIAA sued. It's just about using their legal muscle to shut them down. They will get the assets though. So $30k in patron money for the month, the domain, the trademark, and the copyright to the GPL'd code.
- OJFord 3y agoThey didn't win in court though, they settled, so the money would be a strange and arbitrary amount if they don't think they're getting it?
- throwaway48r7r 3y agoPretty much. The term for this is judgement proof.
- throwaway48r7r 3y agoAs far as I know (IANAL) it was Tropic Haize LLC that was sued and is on the hook for the $2M.
- super256 3y ago> * how will they pay $2M? They most likely don't. Most of these settlements have another agreement made behind closed doors. I was alleged to do stuff related to video game cheats, and was in settlement talks with a company bigger than Nintendo. I didn't end up signing, so a quick overview of what such secret agreements include (the money point is the last one): - keep everything of the following secret - be truthful with us and tell us everything - hand over source code, server access, chats - shut down social media, websites related to the cheats - if defendant cant shut down the cheat site, defendant has to try to shut it down via other various means and email the plaintiff once every quarter for three years with the efforts made - plaintiff will make a public announcement that defendant owes 2.5 million USD (used by the plaintiff for marketing / scaring people off). After X years, the plaintiff agrees to file a full satisfaction of the monetary award (aka plaintiff files that the defendant paid the money and so their credit score isn't totally fucked), BUT in reality the defendant only has to pay the money if they breach any of the terms above.
- throwaway48r7r 3y agoWas your name on the lawsuit or was it an LLC?
- Sammi 3y agoThanks for this insight. This honestly sounds like the reasonable solution for both parties. Everyone just walks away, and no ones life is ruined.
- notso411 3y ago
- SSLy 3y agosome grapevine reports indicate yuzu paid reviewers with early access to some games for pre-retail dumps that were then used to have speedy day1 compat. it could be wrong, totk just leaked a week before release.
- jandrese 3y agoThis feels like a "so what" issue to me. Maybe the early release guys who sold their copies should be in trouble for breaking a contract, but the Yuzu guys should be in the clear.
- alephnerd 3y agoPaying someone to break the rules still makes you culpable.
- futhey 3y agoPaying someone to break the law makes you culpable. Paying someone to violate an NDA or other agreement with a private company you have no direct association with doesn't ordinarily make you culpable.
- favorited 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tortious_interference
- crtasm 3y agoThat would be a strange thing to do considering it was shared everywhere anyway.
- SSLy 3y agoI've seen evidence of other games too.
- choo-t 3y ago> give their domain to Nintendo So, Nintendo will receive all future Yuzu's telemetry.
- iamjk 3y agoplot twist: they leave it up, collect telemetry to match and understand the data behind pirating vs. owned emulation, find it useful to open the platform, focus on services, and build their business to 10x on software almost exclusively not probable, but that would be interesting to see
- erremerre 3y agowould not be possible to send the domain to 127.0.0.1 in localhosts?
- dvngnt_ 3y agoRIP Yuzu
- barbazoo 3y agoI grew up with Nintendo being my "main" game console and to this day I play (Switch) but I'm starting to wonder, might this be a company that's worth boycotting? Sure I'd miss out on the exclusives but lots of games exist on multiple platforms or have similar games on other platforms. Nintendo's behaviour seems to be very much anti hacker and even anti-consumer in cases like this one. Anyone else have any strong feelings about this?
- mcphage 3y agoNintendo’s disdain for historical preservation is frustrating and problematic. But this is an emulator for their current console, I’m not sure this is boycott-worthy. This is more, they’ve got a business to run, and Yuzu impacts their bottom line in a way that Dolphin doesn’t.
- ejj28 3y agoWhile that's a fair point, I also have to wonder how much of that is actually lost sales, vs. people who wouldn't have bought the games otherwise, or didn't have a Switch to play on, or etc. Personally, I paid for a copy of Tears of the Kingdom when it came out, but only because I had a Switch I could borrow from someone to play it on - if I hadn't had that option, I wouldn't have bought a Switch just to play one game, and I just wouldn't have bought the game at all. Had they released the game on PC as well as Switch, I would have bought it for PC, but that's not an option. As it stands, either you have to own an overpriced and underpowered console, even if you only want to play one Nintendo game, or you can pirate the game and play it on PC, and have a much better experience than on a real Switch. Nintendo is somewhat bringing this upon itself in my opinion and I don't feel much sympathy for their lost profits, real or imagined.
- gamblor956 3y agoValve used the Yuzu emulator in some of its Steam Deck initial marketing, and emulating the Switch is one of the most popular uses for the Steam Deck, so there is definitely a measurable impact. Considering that the Steam Deck is more expensive than the Switch, arguably every SD player using Yuzu is several lost sales for Nintendo. Nintendo is somewhat bringing this upon itself in my opinion and I don't feel much sympathy for their lost profits, real or imagined. This is why they are going after Yuzu in the first place...Because Yuzu makes it easy to pirate Switch games and the pirates feel entitled to play those games on a more expensive device than the device they claim is too expensive.
- ls612 3y agoWelp there goes emulation.
- Ekaros 3y agoNot really... No actual court decision so not precedence yet... Someone can try to fight it and kill it.
- 1231232131231 3y agoWho has the money, time, and effort to protect emulation?
- anthk 3y agoYuzu has been forked since forever. Libre software is never lost.
- 1231232131231 3y agoLegally, I meant. Yuzu definitely isn't dead. I wonder where it will be hosted, though.
- Acrobatic_Road 3y agotor/i2p romsites are already there
- moogly 3y agoI'm surprised they have the monetary means to do that.
- janice1999 3y agoTheir Patreon earns over €27,000 a month. I imagine that was factored into the amount. [1] [1] https://www.patreon.com/yuzuteam https://www.patreon.com/yuzuteam
- 1231232131231 3y ago$2.4 million is insane. That would take their profits + a lot more.
- AdmiralAsshat 3y agoDid someone fork the GH repo before it was taken down?
- Lammy 3y agoBoom https://archive.org/details/yuzu.7z https://archive.org/details/yuzu.7z (archived by me from a git mirror; all git remotes removed before zipping)
- isoprophlex 3y agoSeems to be up still... Edit: he's dead, Jim
- wingmanjd 3y agoRepo URL is now dead.
- isoprophlex 3y agoWhoa, cloned it just in time, with literally minutes to spare!
- xingped 3y agoShare if you can!
- sleirsgoevy 3y ago``` git clone https://github.com/irfanhakim-as/yuzu-mainline https://github.com/irfanhakim-as/yuzu-mainline git fetch origin 537296095ab24eddcb196b5ef98004f91de9c8c2 ``` It seems that GitHub still serves the commit history through the existing forks of the repo. According to archive.org, this commit corresponds to the last release of yuzu-mainline before the repo takedown: http://web.archive.org/web/20240304185516/https://github.com/yuzu-emu/yuzu-mainline/releases/tag/mainline-0-1734 http://web.archive.org/web/20240304185516/https://github.com...
- saidinesh5 3y agoThis is sad. Yuzu was such a well polished emulator. I hope everyone backs up a copy of yuzu and hopefully someone some day would continue the development...
- meragrin_ 3y ago> Yuzu was such a well polished emulator. I guess that depends on your definition of "well polished emulator". From what I hear, it is not well polished.
- Pfhortune 3y ago> From what I hear, it is not well polished. Relative to what? Emulators are inherently complex software, and yuzu more than most since it has to deal with modern concerns like GPU drivers, game updates, DLC, etc. For all that it does, it is fine, it mostly works quite well.
- nerdjon 3y agoI am all for there being emulators for past consoles as a form of preservation as the hardware gets harder and harder to get. Has Nintendo ever gone after Dolphin except for the Steam thing? But, emulating a current console is not about preservation. It just isn't. You can try to say it is, but no. Maybe, maybe you could argue that you are putting in the work now so it's ready when it's needed. But then be careful about putting it out there. Just go look at the steam deck subreddit and how often Switch games are talked about, I can't imagine Nintendo was very happy about that. This wasn't just some small project that people did not really know about or served a niche purpose. This as asking for trouble and I am surprised it took so long honestly. Edit: Don't get me wrong, I hate exclusives and I wish the practice would end. But that is the current state of things and the choices leading up to this were questionable at best. Edit Again: Hold up, Yuzu was an actual company and had a Patreon bringing in over $29k a month? Yeah um, Nintendo has been bad but that's a choice for a current console. It is no surprise Nintendo went after them.
- aaomidi 3y agoFolks. This is not about piracy at all. It is also not about copyrights or whatever. It's about the shitty part of DMCA's anti-circumvention. If you want to see how stupid this law is, look at the number of exemptions given for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act#Anti-circumvention_exemptions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_A...
- aaomidi 3y agoI'll also go as far to say, if you support Nintendo here. You also are supporting Apple shutting down Asahi linux. All Apple will need to claim is that Asahi is bypassing some "client side protection", and Asahi is shut down.
- jamesgeck0 3y agoApple Silicon machines have a "permissive security" mode which allows booting unsigned third party kernels. Asahi isn't circumventing anything, this is a officially supported feature.
- MisterBastahrd 3y agoYou can tell that this was about protecting their hardware sales more than any claims about fair use or copyright or other IP because there are literally hundreds of companies which actively sell handheld systems with thousands of Nintendo brand or licensed ROMs on Amazon and elsewhere and I haven't seen a single one shut down.
- Analemma_ 3y agoI mean, yes? I'm not sure why you think you've exposed some kind of secret motivation. Yuzu is not the same thing as Dolphin: it's emulating a current console and is very obviously primarily for facilitating piracy, not historical preservation; people arguing otherwise are fucking kidding themselves. Of course it's about Nintendo protecting hardware sales.
- dtech 3y agoDolphin also existed when Wii was current. Switch is also pretty old by now, you have to start at some point.
- ajford 3y agoOr it's for playing modern games on hardware from this decade. The Switch is now 7 years old, and was dated hardware from the outset. Plenty of people use Yuzu to play Switch games on hardware that can actually support modern resolutions, or so you can actually achieve decent framerates at modern resolutions. Dolphin was in development since the GameCube was the "current gen", on through the Wii's lifecycle. Hell, by this point in the Wii lifecycle, it was already on the way out and Wii-U was releasing.
- anthk 3y agoWine does the same with Windows binaries, and some forks I think they bypass Starforce and lots of DRM crap.
- maximus-decimus 3y agoI would bet people mostly buy their games they use with Wine. Especially now that it's so well integrated with Steam.
- xnx 3y agoI was first in line to buy ToTK on release day, but also enjoyed playing ToTK in Yuzu. It's a shame that won't be an option anymore. What becomes of Ryujinx?
- npteljes 3y agoYuzu, as it is now, won't go anywhere, because it's an open source project. Whatever is working right now, kind of always will in the future.
- KomoD 3y agoThe repos are now disappearing, only managed to get a partial archive
- paol 3y agoIt's open source. If there are people interested in continuing development it won't go away. And even if there aren't the current version will still work fine, just maybe not for future games.
- gjsman-1000 3y agoYou're assuming Nintendo doesn't file DMCA takedowns; especially considering they've literally just won a court case against it. And even if you are outside the US, I wouldn't be surprised if European service providers don't want to risk it because they are still under copyright treaties, of which the DMCA is just the US implementation.
- paol 3y agoI don't think it's that simple. For one thing emulation has been ruled legal in the US. By all reports Nintendo had an unusually strong case against Yuzu because the developers behind it didn't sufficiently distance themselves from piracy uses - the opposite if anything. On the practical side, the fact that the developers were a for profit company also made Nintendo's job much easier. Taking down a more legally careful, decentralized open source project should prove harder.
- gjsman-1000 3y ago> For one thing emulation has been ruled legal in the US. By Emulation was; breaking cryptographic locks under the DMCA never was. In addition, most of the pro-emulation lawsuits were decided before the relevant DMCA sections even came into effect (e.g. Bleem), and are quite possibly already obsolete.
- 1231232131231 3y agoWhat if it was forked and the code that broke DRM was separated from the codebase, preferably as a library (dll/lib)?
- Kirby64 3y agoI wonder if Ryujinx gets the same scrutiny/lawsuits? Seems like Ryujinx is a good competitor to Yuzu and will easily fill the void here.
- FrostKiwi 3y agoSame thoughts. They should triple-up their public image efforts and make sure any shared ROM link on Ryujinx controlled infrastructure results in a ban or something, otherwise Nintendo comes for them next.
- kimixa 3y agoIt's what Dolphin did - so much as a sniff about piracy and you're banned. It was unfortunately still rather common - people just can't stop telling on themselves - and that's after big warnings in every part of the forum sign up process and on the post page too. I'm not sure they really lost much from the community because it of though - the vast majority banned were just "Free Gamez Pls" - and coming down on things like that hard can make sense if you don't want more of that creeping over time.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- m3kw9 3y agoI'm surprised Ryujinx wasn't mentioned much at all or touched. They have the exact identical Patreon page except a shade of color i can identify.
- KAdot 3y agoThe project is gone from GitHub already https://github.com/yuzu-emu/yuzu https://github.com/yuzu-emu/yuzu
- kadoban 3y agoAnyone have a recent fork to grab from before it becomes harder to find?
- KAdot 3y agohttps://github.com/pineappleEA/pineapple-src https://github.com/pineappleEA/pineapple-src
- bspammer 3y agohttps://github.com/SomeAspy/yuzu https://github.com/SomeAspy/yuzu The most recent commit hash matches another comment in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39595014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39595014
- dang 3y agoRecent and related: Nintendo is suing the creators of Switch emulator Yuzu - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39530203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39530203 - Feb 2024 (678 comments)
- apt-get 3y agoConsidering the precedent in circumventing decryption issues by calling out to a library (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libdvdcss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libdvdcss), what is the likelihood that someone just builds a libxcidecrypt and development of yuzu continues unimpeded on a fork (somewhere like Europe for example where the DMCA doesn't hold)?
- dbrueck 3y agoIt would be so great if Nintendo were just a software company. Over the years they have put out some really terrific games, many of which I'd still buy today if they sold them as software. But after the Wii I stopped being a Nintendo customer (and stopped buying PS/Xbox/etc. consoles altogether) and I don't think I'll ever go back.
- pezezin 3y agoI fully agree with you, except that I stopped buying their stuff after the Gamecube. There are several Nintendo games that I would certainly like to play, but I don't want to be forced to buy their hardware.
- throwaway48r7r 3y agoPersonally, I will be boycotting Nintendo and will urge others to do the same.
- iamunr 3y agoNintendo is the worst, and your entire gaming experience will be better on Yuzu or Ryujinx. Sad to see this happen to the Yuzu squad.
- camdenlock 3y ago<loves playing Nintendo games> “Nintendo is the worst”
- carleton 3y agoI bet you thought you got him. My mans just learned that you can like a game without liking the company that makes the game
- antonyt 3y agoI think their point is that you're not taking a principled stand by stealing. If it matters enough to you to "boycott" the company, walk the walk and don't play the games by any means.
- hn_acker 3y agoThere might not be copyright infringement involved, so "stealing" is an unnecessary assumption (on top of being a misleading term for copyright infringement). Since Nintendo isn't the only source for games that run on Nintendo consoles, Nintendo might not get money from the self-proclaimed boycotter. But since there's no guarantee that Nintendo won't get money from the self-proclaimed either, I can understand why people would view the following scenario as cognitively dissonant: A person only buys physical copies of non-Nintendo-made games which run on Nintendo devices from people reselling legally-distributed copies (legal in the US with the first-sale doctrine, which unfortunately doesn't apply to digital copies). The person plays those games by ripping the files and running them on third-party emulators. The person publicly states that they boycott Nintendo the company and that they play non-Nintendo-games made for Nintendo consoles. Resellers might or might not spend their money on more Nintendo games. By the way, iamunr didn't claim to boycott Nintendo. Perhaps iamunr buys Nintendo games but plays them on emulators. throwaway48r7r didn't provide any information about whether they'll continue playing non-Nintendo-made games for Nintendo consoles.
- sotix 3y agoYuzu got me to start buying Nintendo games again. Two weeks ago I coincidentally decided to mod my Switch and extract all of my games to play on my steam deck because I hadn't touched my switch since getting a steam deck. Everything I am now running on my steam deck comes from my personal switch. I have been having so much fun and loving how my games look on an OLED screen. I also appreciate that I didn't have to generate any waste since I continue to only have my two devices rather than buying a new OLED switch. I was about to go on a shopping spree on the Nintendo store to buy more games even though I haven't bought a switch game in 2 years. This is disappointing to hear. The interesting thing to me is the Wii U was sort of like youtube premium. Everyone complains about youtube ads yey refuses to pay for the ad-free experience. Similarly, I see people complain about not being able to buy old Nintendo games, but the Wii U eShop provided an abundance of retro games for purchase. Most of the retro games I play come from my Wii U. Nintendo has disappointingly made it more and more difficult over the years to buy their older games, but I suppose when it was easy to do, nobody did it unfortunately. All of this would be solved if Nintendo simply sold their games and we were allowed to play it on whatever hardware we want. But I understand why Nintendo doesn't want that and also that many people seem to not want to actually pay for the games they play.
- rokkitmensch 3y agoBut in no world can I buy a retro game on arbitrary platform X and then also play it on arbitrary platforms P, Q or R.
- parl_match 3y agoYou can do this right now. For example, I have bought retro games from gog and humble that included multiple builds for different systems and platforms, and no restrictions on where you run them - just that you don't distribute them.
- effingwewt 3y agoYou missed the 'arbitrary platform' part of 5he original comment. We all know steam exists that wasnt what OP meant.
- dang 3y agoRelated ongoing thread: Yuzu (Nintendo Switch emulator) is dead - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39594795 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39594795
- schoen 3y agoI just want to echo what a few people have mentioned here: The legality of emulation was strongly upheld under pre-DMCA copyright law in U.S. court decisions where console makers lost against emulator developers. However, the DMCA gave plaintiffs a whole new set of tools to prevent interoperability. Lots of interoperability and emulation cases have been lost under the DMCA. The DMCA radically limited the prior legal norm that you could create a compatible implementation of a proprietary technology from scratch. If you agree that there should be a right to reimplement a third-party version of a proprietary system/technology/format/protocol (including one that uses some kind of secrecy to attempt to enforce DRM), you should oppose DMCA §1201.
- p0w3n3d 3y agoThe same as in John Deere's case. You can fix your tractor but you will break the software patents
- ronsor 3y agoReminder that the EFF is challenging section 1201 as unconstitutional: https://www.eff.org/cases/green-v-us-department-justice https://www.eff.org/cases/green-v-us-department-justice
- metalcrow 3y agoCan you give examples of some of those lost cases? Specifically emulation related ones?
- ncann 3y agoThis is sad, but honestly the expected outcome. Not only did they receive money from people, which is like the #1 in the not-to-do list when you're offering a product in a legally grey area, but also they set up a company in the US (TROPIC HAZE LLC), which is like a giant target to be sued. An anonymous GitHub repo is by contrast much harder to sue.
- Dig1t 3y agoI had never heard of this emulator before, but after all the news of this lawsuit, I looked at their compatibility list and am surprised at how many titles are supported and how well this seems to work! I'll definitely be giving this emulator a try soon. I think Nintendo is probably shooting themselves in the foot a little bit by giving this project more publicity than it otherwise would have received.
- Arnavion 3y agoThe /g/ thread about this linked https://web.archive.org/web/20240302031159/https://github.com/yuzu-emu/yuzu/issues/13189 https://web.archive.org/web/20240302031159/https://github.co... . Would be amusing if true, though it probably isn't. (It's an issue filed on the yuzu repo by someone claiming to be so upset about yuzu dropping Windows 7 support that they sent emails to Nintendo to bring it to their attention.)
- archy_ 3y agoBig companies don't wait for some rando to complain to take these kinds of enforcement actions. Chances are it was already well underway by the time he typed up his message.
- Arnavion 3y agoYeah.
- ronsor 3y agoWe saw a similar and opposite situation with Pokemon fans bothering Nintendo to go after Palworld. Considering Nintendo released a statement that boiled down to "we already know", it's clear that whatever Nintendo does or doesn't do has nothing to do with people telling them.
- skrebbel 3y agoI simply can’t get used to the entitlement of gamers, it’s on a whole nother level. This person writes as if the authors mugged their mother, but the problem is “your emu stopped working on my computer”.
- codetrotter 3y agoProbably was just a troll anyway that wanted to get a rise out of the devs, and never even sent any emails or anything in the first place. “Now I hear news of a lawsuit. Probably from my awareness effort, maybe not.” This claim would’ve been more credible if it was made before news about the lawsuit broke. Thankfully the devs knew how to respond: “Linux would have solved your issues just fine.”
- neurostimulant 3y agoSo, are Yuzu developers actually have $2.4M lying around, or will they pay for it in installment like Gary Bowser?
- ThatPlayer 3y agoIt seems like it's $2.4M from the company Tropic Haze LLC which will probably pay what it can and then declare bankruptcy and close, so that the developers aren't paying $2.4M.
- honkycat 3y agoThis is a shame. The Nintendo consoles are JUNK. So much nicer on my PC and one less piece of trash I have to keep in my room.
- 1231232131231 3y agoI didn't really care for Switch games till the lawsuit. Yuzu runs pretty well!
- speps 3y agoLet's see what'll happen to Ryujinx next... https://ryujinx.org/ https://ryujinx.org/
- aquova 3y agoUnless I'm mistaken, their sister project Citra, a 3DS emulator, is also gone now. https://github.com/citra-emu https://github.com/citra-emu Only their website remains
- haunter 3y agoLast official builds https://archive.org/details/citra-latest-builds-4th-march-2024 https://archive.org/details/citra-latest-builds-4th-march-20...
- TillE 3y agoThe installers don't actually work, because wherever they hosted the updates is gone. I see a lot of people on Twitter lamenting that 3DS emulation is dead, but Citra was more or less a finished product, and third-party builds will undoubtedly be up within hours.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- fxtentacle 3y agoI'm pretty sure the true reason behind this lawsuit was that the Yuzu people were running a company selling (on Patreon) "Early Access" to emulator features and access to a private Discord where there was A LOT of user-uploaded Switch ROM dumps floating around and the moderators (employed by the company charging for access) were extremely happy to look the other way. Also, doesn't Yuzu itself include pre-decrypted ROM dumps from the actual Switch hardware, like for example the OS bootloader ? It's one thing to build an emulator. It's a very different thing to run a company by facilitating piracy. Also, this judgement probably won't financially ruin the Yuzu devs, because they (as persons) were not sued. But it will probably tank their liability-limited company named Tropic Haze LLC. I have a strong feeling that if you'd post lossless rips of pre-release cinema movies to a private (but paid) discord, you'd get a rather similar treatment ;) EDIT: I mean even the name choice "Tropic Haze" kind of hints at sailing the high seas ;) EDIT2: Straight from the filing: "The lead developer of Yuzu [..] has publicly acknowledged most users pirate prod.keys and games online" EDIT3: "The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom, was unlawfully distributed a week and a half before its release"
- corytheboyd 3y agoThank you for providing the sober explanation of what really happened here, I knew there had to be more to it, but didn’t care enough to dig in.
- bakugo 3y agoThere isn't more to it, that explanation is wrong. See my other comments.
- corytheboyd 3y agoSo did they run a discord server where people shared ROMs or not? That alone is enough of a woopsie.
- fxtentacle 3y agoThey did, but indirectly by tolerating it, and some files are even still online: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39596261 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39596261
- Osmose 3y agoShoutout to every Nintendo employee who grew up playing Nintendo games on emulators because they couldn't afford them or they weren't available anymore having to stay silent while their employer ensures that never happens again.
- AnarchismIsCool 3y agoHow hard would it be to create a gitea repo under a .onion address and carry on development in a place outside the control of nintendo?
- bakugo 3y agoNot hard at all, development will definitely be continued to some degree but likely not by the original developers, since most of them didn't do a great job of obscuring their identities and won't want to take the risk.
- Wowfunhappy 3y agoI hate to say it, but I'm mostly on Nintendo's side here. I love emulators. I love being able to play old games on my PC, and I love being able to play modern Switch games at higher frame rates. However, I just don't think we should ignore the fact that 99% of Yuzu users are pirating the games they're playing. Maybe you are personally in the 1% of people who dutifully buys every Switch game they play in Yuzu. You are in a tiny minority. I would feel very differently if Yuzu, say, partnered with a company to create Switch game cart readers that connect via USB, and the software would only load games which were actually plugged in.
- Dylan16807 3y agoI honestly don't think it's 99% And shutting down development is the wrong thing to do no matter what. > and the software would only load games which were actually plugged in That screws over anyone with a laptop or handheld, who can't just put all their games on a nearby shelf.
- Wowfunhappy 3y ago> That screws over anyone with a laptop or handheld, who can't just put all their games on a nearby shelf. It does. That's life. You don't have an inalienable right to play Nintendo games, and this just isn't such an extreme inconvenience. It's far more convenient than the current actually-legal process of tracking down an early model switch and taking the time to mod it and transfer games over, which everyone totally pinky swears they actually do!
- Dylan16807 3y ago> That's life. You don't have an inalienable right You made up this idea. So no it's not. > taking the time to mod it and transfer games over, which everyone totally pinky swears they actually do. Downloading versus ripping yourself is a dumb technicality that most people don't care about. The important part is whether you own the game. That's the part Nintendo actually cares about too.
- aussieguy1234 3y agoYuzu was GPL licensed. Where there was one Yuzu, there will now be 100 Yuzu's.
- favorited 3y agoAnd 0 of them with any Tropic Haze developers.
- MallocVoidstar 3y agoWho exactly is going to start doing very difficult work knowing that they will immediately be sued by an extremely rich company that operates worldwide?
- tavavex 3y agoI don't know about immediately. Even Ryujinx, another established Switch emulator that rivals Yuzu and used to be more popular than it, is still up with no news of an incoming lawsuit. This takedown will definitely lessen the number of people who'd want to contribute to the project, but I'm guessing it'll return back to normal as the Switch is discontinued and Nintendo starts losing interest in defending the system.
- aussieguy1234 3y agoCould depend. If the next gen console is a Wii > Gamecube type situation, it may be that Yuzu could run games for it with minimal modification, just like how Dolphin can play Gamecube games. That would keep nintendo/their lawyers interested most likely.
- m3kw9 3y agoDifferent fixes over 100s of different repos lol
- syspec 3y agoFrom the “Final Judgment” and “Permanent Injunction” documents > [yuzu] > yuzu, in its current form, will cease to exist. > Their settlement with Nintendo prohibits any distribution of yuzu in built and source code form. Development must also stop. > The yuzu website and related services will also be shut down. Source: https://twitter.com/OatmealDome/status/1764715696250843321 https://twitter.com/OatmealDome/status/1764715696250843321
- privacyking 3y agoIf you're backing up stuff, you should also clone / grab the latest releases for TegraRcmGUI, Hekate, Atmosphère, Lockpick_RCM, NDDumpTool, nxDumpFuse, and TegraExplorer - all of which are also scheduled to be deleted
- comex 3y agoSource?
- privacyking 3y agoMost of the press articles mention it
- m3kw9 3y agoThey go sued because the android version directly competes with how Nintendo switch is played and most likely have a easy to use rom search and install system somewhere
- flykespice 3y agoIs it really "playable" on Android, at least 30 fps? Doesn't it overheats easily?
- daedalus2027 3y agoAll released Nintendo software should be inspected for potential FLOSS license violations and made to cease and desist like they do with emulator developers or at least take them to court.
- daedalus2027 3y agoExamine all Nintendo software releases for potential violations of Free/Libre and Open Source Software (FLOSS) licenses, and if any are identified, take legal action to ensure compliance, similar to their approach with emulator developers.
- mindslight 3y agoThe imaginary property maximalist truncheon seems to really be heating up. Too many naive devs following the web startup handbook while not realizing that the aim of their project conflicting with the corporatist status quo means they have to do things much differently. The world can't move on from centralized hellholes like Github (aka Microsoft) and Discord soon enough. It's a damn shame how much development effort has been wasted by these traps, and how much the corporate world has been primed to think anything they don't like can just be bullied away with the legal system. As people move towards freer communications tools that don't just respond to requests to roll over with "how many times?", this entitlement is going to result in demands for ever more draconian Internet restrictions.
- everyone 3y agoHoly shit that was fast. Did Nintendo threaten to have them killed or something?
- Andrex 3y ago> 7. With the exception of paragraphs 5 and 6 herein, the Court further enjoins > Defendant and its members from destroying, transferring, altering, moving, returning, concealing, > or in any manner hiding evidence relevant to the matters set forth herein—including any and all > video game consoles, video games (or constituent elements thereof, such as video game files), > ROMs, and video game emulators (and any digital files comprising the same) that infringe > Nintendo’s intellectual property rights, and/or which were used in connection with developing or > using Yuzu—unless authorized by Nintendo in writing. Defendant and its members are also > enjoined from allowing evidence to be destroyed, altered, or concealed by third parties if the > evidence is under Defendant or its members’ possession, custody, or control. Aaaaand there it is. Nintendo figured out that Yuzu is not clean-room emulation, which is the only legal path to emulation. Reverse-engineering anything from Nintendo is verboten. Developing your own from scratch is not, hence why Dolphin is likely in the clear.
- lisbon44 3y agonot sure if anyone is going to see at this point but I digress. even if this case did not directly set a precedent against emulation the mere risk of a repeat of this case with the same outcome is not exactly encouraging to the prospect of someone forking the projects at issue and restarting development.
- Dban1 3y agoPirating =/= Theft.
- anbardoi 3y agoJust speculating here, but I'm open to input or counterpoints. In regards to the term 'lost sales'... are these sales truly even lost? I imagine that if somebody is scrolling through a list of ROMS for games available to download, it's probably a significantly different experience than scrolling through the Nintendo e-shop hunting for a new game to play. For the ROM list: "oh hey, that looks kinda cool. downloads file" For the e-shop(same exact game): "looks kinda cool, but not '$40' cool, lol keeps scrolling" I'd almost play with the idea that ROM emulation could, in some circumstances, increase sales for Nintendo, for example the new console 'Nintendo Foo' comes out, no emulation avenues yet, but a sequel for a game you played on an emulator is only available on the new console. Cha-ching. 'Lost sales' as a reason for litigation doesnt _seem_ to have very stable footing from a logical perspective, albeit I imagine it's only a justifiable means to an end for Nintendo. These little dramas are always so exciting.
- carl_dr 3y agoITT everyone missing the point that an open source tool which may or may not have enabled piracy, and may or may not have illegally charged for access to assets which may or may not have allowed users to access pirated assets, had $2.4M on hand to settle with one of the largest software and hardware producers in the world.