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EVs are still too compromising or expensive. All I want is an electric no-frills version of my Civic at a comparable price. Honda themselves, or any other manuf

EVs are still too compromising or expensive. All I want is an electric no-frills version of my Civic at a comparable price. Honda themselves, or any other manufacturer, have been unable to offer that. I have no interest in buying another ICE vehicle, so I'll continue to maintain my current car, but I'm ready to buy once they offer something I'm looking for.

api 3y ago
> All I want is an electric no-frills version of my Civic at a comparable price. The US car industry seems really determined not to allow anything affordable on the market. It's not just EVs. They also push overpriced bloated gas guzzlers. Eventually someone will get a cheap reliable decent-range EV like you want into the market and steamroll the entire industry.
- dalyons 3y ago
  It coming, from BYD and the other new Chinese ev companies
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Not to the US. There's currently a 25% tariff on imported Chinese vehicles, and there's a proposal to raise it to 125%.
    - grecy 3y ago
      If you can't beat the competition, stifle them!
    - LammyL 3y ago
      BYD is opening a plant in Mexico to avoid tariffs. If that happens we should see BYD cars in the US and Canada by 2030.
      - api 3y ago
        They could even open plants in the USA like the Japanese car makers did.
      - bryanlarsen 3y ago
        The proposed rule would add a 100% tariff to Chinese cars built in Mexico. Would totally break Trump's USMCA, but...
- mook 3y ago
  Wasn't that basically why the Japanese cars got popular way back? Because they were cheaper and more efficient (and gas was getting expensive)? This time around the Japanese have been assimilated; it looks like it'll have to be the Chinese to make useful cars.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    Quality was at least as important. Cheap cars that break down and rust out aren't a bargain.
    - nradov 3y ago
      Japanese cars were never particularly rust resistant. Even some more recent Japanese models have been notorious for rusting. https://carfromjapan.com/article/industry-knowledge/the-history-of-toyota-tacoma-frame-recall/ https://carfromjapan.com/article/industry-knowledge/the-hist...
      - ghaff 3y ago
        Probably just about everyone is a lot better than they were a few decades ago. I had a Honda Del Sol that I donated right before the pandemic. I think the last time I took it into the dealer, mechanics gathered around the 1997(?) model which I had kept garaged in the winter for a number of years because they hadn't seen a recent example that didn't have rusted-out wheel wells. That notwithstanding, perceived Toyota quality (perhaps in particular) was a big part of their success in probably the 80s/90s.
    - shinjitsu 3y ago
      Right you are - if cheap was all that matter the Yugo would have been everywhere https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a21082360/a-quick-history-of-the-yugo-the-worst-car-in-history/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a21082360/a-quick-hist...
- nradov 3y ago
  Overpriced according to whom? There's no big conspiracy here. Manufacturers earn larger profits on more expensive vehicles. If consumers are willing to buy expensive cars then why bother making cheap ones? Some of the legacy mainstream brands used to offer an affordable entry-level model as essentially a loss leader to build brand loyalty with younger consumers. The theory was that those consumers would return in a few years and trade that cheap car in for a more profitable model. But now the brands have largely abandoned that strategy. As for fuel economy, it costs more to build an efficient vehicle. If consumers are willing to pay a premium for efficiency then manufacturers will be happy to build it.
  - ProfessorLayton 3y ago
    >Overpriced according to whom? Me, and apparently many others since manufacturers are cutting their forecasts? As a consumer I don't really care what makes manufacturers more profit, I just want a product that meets my needs, and the first one to do so gets my money. Many, many cars are sold at a Civic's price band, and it wouldn't be happening if it wasn't profitable. Legacy car makers can twiddle their thumbs all they want, but upstarts like BYD are going to eat their lunch if they don't become competitive. They're making competitively priced EVs, and building a plant in Mexico, so competition is about to heat up.

api 3y ago

> All I want is an electric no-frills version of my Civic at a comparable price. The US car industry seems really determined not to allow anything affordable on the market. It's not just EVs. They also push overpriced bloated gas guzzlers. Eventually someone will get a cheap reliable decent-range EV like you want into the market and steamroll the entire industry.

dalyons 3y ago
It coming, from BYD and the other new Chinese ev companies
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Not to the US. There's currently a 25% tariff on imported Chinese vehicles, and there's a proposal to raise it to 125%.
  - grecy 3y ago
    If you can't beat the competition, stifle them!
  - LammyL 3y ago
    BYD is opening a plant in Mexico to avoid tariffs. If that happens we should see BYD cars in the US and Canada by 2030.
    - api 3y ago
      They could even open plants in the USA like the Japanese car makers did.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      The proposed rule would add a 100% tariff to Chinese cars built in Mexico. Would totally break Trump's USMCA, but...
mook 3y ago
Wasn't that basically why the Japanese cars got popular way back? Because they were cheaper and more efficient (and gas was getting expensive)? This time around the Japanese have been assimilated; it looks like it'll have to be the Chinese to make useful cars.
- ghaff 3y ago
  Quality was at least as important. Cheap cars that break down and rust out aren't a bargain.
  - nradov 3y ago
    Japanese cars were never particularly rust resistant. Even some more recent Japanese models have been notorious for rusting. https://carfromjapan.com/article/industry-knowledge/the-history-of-toyota-tacoma-frame-recall/ https://carfromjapan.com/article/industry-knowledge/the-hist...
    - ghaff 3y ago
      Probably just about everyone is a lot better than they were a few decades ago. I had a Honda Del Sol that I donated right before the pandemic. I think the last time I took it into the dealer, mechanics gathered around the 1997(?) model which I had kept garaged in the winter for a number of years because they hadn't seen a recent example that didn't have rusted-out wheel wells. That notwithstanding, perceived Toyota quality (perhaps in particular) was a big part of their success in probably the 80s/90s.
  - shinjitsu 3y ago
    Right you are - if cheap was all that matter the Yugo would have been everywhere https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a21082360/a-quick-history-of-the-yugo-the-worst-car-in-history/ https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a21082360/a-quick-hist...
nradov 3y ago
Overpriced according to whom? There's no big conspiracy here. Manufacturers earn larger profits on more expensive vehicles. If consumers are willing to buy expensive cars then why bother making cheap ones? Some of the legacy mainstream brands used to offer an affordable entry-level model as essentially a loss leader to build brand loyalty with younger consumers. The theory was that those consumers would return in a few years and trade that cheap car in for a more profitable model. But now the brands have largely abandoned that strategy. As for fuel economy, it costs more to build an efficient vehicle. If consumers are willing to pay a premium for efficiency then manufacturers will be happy to build it.
- ProfessorLayton 3y ago
  >Overpriced according to whom? Me, and apparently many others since manufacturers are cutting their forecasts? As a consumer I don't really care what makes manufacturers more profit, I just want a product that meets my needs, and the first one to do so gets my money. Many, many cars are sold at a Civic's price band, and it wouldn't be happening if it wasn't profitable. Legacy car makers can twiddle their thumbs all they want, but upstarts like BYD are going to eat their lunch if they don't become competitive. They're making competitively priced EVs, and building a plant in Mexico, so competition is about to heat up.