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Ford EVs gain access to Tesla Superchargers starting today
- stbenjam 3y agoDongles are great but supercharger cables are relatively short, we're going to see Fords blocking multiple chargers in various ways so they can connect. There's usually only one pull-in spot.
- jmacd 3y agoThe F-150 Lightning has a charging port on the front driver's side. Tesla Superchargers are meant to be backed in to with a read driver's side charging port. A F-150 will need to drive in to the spot adjacent to the charger they want to use and bring the charging cable across, effectivly using 2 stalls to charge, as far as I can tell.
- jhickok 3y agoSo basically the same experience we all have with them in grocery store parking lots.
- cyberax 3y agoEV charger cables need to conduct hundreds of amps of current. You can't easily make them much longer without losing efficiency.
- ajross 3y ago> effectivly using 2 stalls to charge Only for stations that aren't at the end of a row or lack a parking spot adjacent. And only if the "blocked" spot can't be used by another "mirror image" car design. I mean, gas stations have been dealing with this problem for decades (different car designs need to pull through along different sides, so sometimes my Mazda "blocks" the two pumps because other cars can't pull in until I move) and we've all survived. And in any case, unless you're trying to charge on major corridors on high traffic weekends, it's academic anyway. Over 30k miles and almost three years, I can count on one hand the number of times my Model Y has had to wait for a charger spot. People are making way to big a deal out of a minor issue, basically. Standard Tesla discussion form.
- jmacd 3y agoThere is 1 stall on a single set of superchargers which can be charged by a F-150 without blocking 2 stalls, that is if there is an adjacent spot on the right side/end of the chargers, which is not always the case. This is a post about Ford's getting access to Superchargers, so I don't think it's making a "big deal" about anything to simply describe the configuration of the trucks and how that impacts their ability to use the superchargers. It just is what it is.
- ajross 3y ago> There is 1 stall on a single set of superchargers which can be charged by a F-150 without blocking 2 stalls Verifiably false. Put a F-150 in every stall, and only one on the very end is blocked, and only if there isn't an open parking space next to it. If F-150's make up a significant fraction of the charging population, then you're looking at half the impact (25%) at most, not even including the spots on the ends that don't have a spot to block (most rows are 4-8 spots wide, so that's another 12-25% recovered). And of course if F-150's don't make up a significant fraction of the charging population, then you're not looking at a significant impact by definition. I repeat, in exhaustion: This Is Not A Big Deal. Please stop making everything a big deal Because Tesla. It's exhausting.
- _ea1k 3y ago> People are making way to big a deal out of a minor issue, basically. Standard Tesla discussion form. Yeah, I've seen way too much stress about this issue. I'm sure there will be a few stations that have issues for short periods of time, but the overall picture just doesn't change that much. And the solution is the same anyway. Just keep building.
- Torkel 3y agoIn Sweden this is a pain at super charger locations that allow non-Tesla vehicle charging. The almost randomized charge port locations makes lots of non-Tesla vehicles park in the wrong place and take up two spots. Not really sure what can be done about it except just hoping for more charge infrastructure to be built fast... If Tesla would go back to only offering charging for Tesla vehicles that would be nice when driving Tesla but a step back for the overall electrification so I'm actually ok with some minor annoyance on this.
- stbenjam 3y agoThey could make the cables longer but there's definitely a cost aspect given they're liquid cooled.
- datameta 3y agoI think it's a maintenance decision. Probably less wear and tear on the internal layers in a shorter cable that can't be spaghettified as easily. Could be off here.
- Torkel 3y agoHey! I just learned they are actually doing exactly that for V4 - Yay! https://electrek.co/2023/07/26/tesla-confirms-supercharger-v4-350-kw-output/ https://electrek.co/2023/07/26/tesla-confirms-supercharger-v...
- p1mrx 3y agoThey just need to fix this cable-snagging lip design: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mox4tL3dR8o&t=1403s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mox4tL3dR8o&t=1403s
- brummm 3y agoI mean, this was essentially solved for gas stations with long, flexible cables. That is the obvious solution here.
- asabla 3y ago
- avalys 3y agoBut two F150s can still park next to each other and use two chargers, yes? The only wasted spot is at the interface between a Tesla and non-Tesla.
- adolph 3y agoDo you wind up wasting the next one in the row, so only wasting half as many slots? Reminds me of the 1/3 coin revolution problem: Circle A has 1/3 the radius of circle B. Circle A rolls around circle B until it returns to its starting position. How many revolutions of circle A are there in total? https://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2015/07/05/everyone-got-this-sat-math-question-wrong-can-you-solve-it-sunday-puzzle/ https://mindyourdecisions.com/blog/2015/07/05/everyone-got-t...
- bluGill 3y agoMaybe, but if you are towing a trailer most charging locations are setup such that you have to block several different chargers in some way.
- bdcravens 3y agoProbably. It'll get worse as different manufacturers gain access. This change is about ubiquity, and Tesla knows it may make things less convenient for current Tesla owners.
- _ea1k 3y agoThis is why it is so important for stations to support sharing power between stalls via shared cabinets. Lowering the cost per stall makes it much easier to install additional posts to limit the impact of that problem. IIRC, Tesla is currently installing ~2,400 stalls per year in the US. It could be higher now as the rate tends to trend up over time. Of course, lots of third parties are ramping up now too (Pilot, Flying J, Circle-K, and the non-EA/Wal-Mart branded sites).
- rpmisms 3y agoTesla already does this.
- _ea1k 3y agoI know, and it has been a significant advantage for them. Others have been using a similar approach recently too (EA "balanced" chargers, Kempower, newer Chargepoint setups, and quite a few others).
- throwaway894345 3y agoWouldn't it make more sense for manufacturers to ... put the charge port in the same spot?
- ascorbic 3y agoOr make the cables a bit longer, like all the other chargers do.
- stbenjam 3y agoFront center (like the LEAF) or passenger side makes most sense to me (for street parking), but it's just a free-for-all right now.
- vel0city 3y agoPutting it in the front means its more likely to take damage. No thanks. Putting it on the passenger side means I need to walk around the car nearly every time even though I pretty much never street park the car. No thanks.
- dheera 3y agoJust build more chargers. When chargers are as ubiquitous as gas stations this won't be an issue.
- bluGill 3y agoThey won't be though. Most charging will be at home. Your neighborhood gas station's days are numbered. There may be more chargers on rural highways (charging spends more time at the "pump"), but overall there will be less charging and so chargers will never be as ubiquitous.
- pa7ch 3y agoNeighborhoods with higher density housing won't be able to charge at home so likely EV stations will be easier than widespread curbside charging in cities.
- dheera 3y agoYeah this. I live in Silicon Valley, can't afford a house here (almost nobody can), but have an EV and rely on public charging infrastructure. Most people, and even most EV owners, don't and will never own a single family home here. It works totally fine, my office has slow charging, the public library a short walk from my apartment has slow charging, and many supermarkets have superchargers or other DC fast charging so I almost never waste time dealing with charging.
- bluGill 3y agoIf you live that dense you should take transit. so the question is why do you not? are letting politicians get away with lip service?
- m463 3y agolol, silicon valley mass transit is a poorly connected mishmash. It has been "getting better" for decades without really getting better. Most of the time "transit" means 4x or more the travel time.
- ChadMoran 3y agov4 dispensers have longer cables and are centrally mounted allowing vehicles to only use one stall regardless of port location.
- usrusr 3y agoHow wasteful would it be to build a car with charging ports on both sides? Would use far more resources than most other conveniences you find in a car, but would also be a far more substantial quality of life improvement than the other stuff.
- fnordpiglet 3y agoI think more likely if Tesla charging is becoming the standard, just build all cars to have a charge port in the same place. I’ve never understood the need to be creative with where you put a plug/gas nozzle. If that’s your differentiation you’ve got worse problems.
- Bud 3y ago[dead]
- simmonmt 3y agoI doubt they're being creative. Far more likely they're locating the charging port based on the needs of the vehicle's internal layout. Or to be consistent with the manufacturer's standard, which was likely set by the needs of their first EV's internal layout.
- usrusr 3y agoAre fuel inlet sides consistent with the handedness of traffic in the home market of the brand? Perhaps with occasional exceptions in brands aiming for extra britishness to appear more "sports car"?
- m463 3y agoThe only technical reason I could think of to put it on the passenger side would be for chargers when parallel parking on the street.
- bdavbdav 3y agoAudi do.
- ulfw 3y agoThe Ford adapter should have been available with a cord extension instead of just a block. Or at least offer a 10ft extension cable converter (CCS one end, NACS other end)
- jmacd 3y agoThis is for access to compatible 250kW Supercharges. There are a lot of them, but it is a subset of the total Supercharger network. [1] If you check the Find Us map and select "Superchargers Open to NACS" then you will see which ones are compatible and their associated 'Charging Fees for NACS EVs' rates. 1: https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=53.02665397538087%2C-66.9667980625%2C23.94405035054529%2C-131.5664074375&zoom=5&filters=party%2Cnacs https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=53.02665397538087%2C...
- _ea1k 3y agoYeah, it is a subset of the v3/v4 chargers. It isn't clear how they selected them either. Some very busy sites have been added, but other v3 sites that aren't as busy were left off. Some have speculated that it relates to the stall layout, but if that is the case the differences must be really subtle.
- tw04 3y agoHas anyone physically inspected the sites. I wonder if they’ve started installing longer cables at the sites on the list
- _ea1k 3y agoCable lengths seem to be the same. They did have to upgrade control boards, though, supposedly at each stall. The few v4 sites that are available do have longer cables.
- ChadMoran 3y agoThey require a board upgrade at -each- dispenser. Likely they are still upgrading many of them.
- NewJazz 3y agoLet's hope. Though vertical integration always invites suspicion.
- sandworm101 3y agoQuestion: Could ford one day be denied access? I know there is a physical adapter, but could a certain mercurial billionaire one day decide to restrict access via software?
- baron816 3y agoHopefully they structured the contract so that no vehicles sold under it could lose access even if the contract is not renewed for new vehicles.
- blibble 3y agoI thought the evidence was Musk considers adherence to signed contracts as something only his counterparty needs to comply with
- basiccalendar74 3y agoTwitter board disagrees
- justrealist 3y agoI'm sure Ford's agreement with Tesla ensures continuity of service, with a lot of heads-up if Tesla wants to terminate.
- bdcravens 3y agoThey block access to current Tesla owners for different reasons, so of course. https://www.carscoops.com/2023/09/tesla-owner-loses-supercharging-privileges-after-insurance-company-mistakenly-lists-car-as-totaled/ https://www.carscoops.com/2023/09/tesla-owner-loses-supercha...
- ggreer 3y agoThat's not "no reason". The insurance company incorrectly listed the car as totaled and the DMV issued a salvage title for it. Tesla doesn't want chargers or vehicles to be damaged or destroyed, so they have a policy of disabling supercharging on cars with salvage titles. That Tesla didn't fix the issue until a news crew contacted them is an indictment of Tesla's customer support, not some sort of fickleness where they gleefully disable supercharging for random cars. Edit: The parent comment originally said "They block access to current Tesla owners for no reason."
- SamuelAdams 3y ago> Ford EVs aren't compatible with every Tesla Supercharger, however. They must be the more recent units, which are able to charge at up to 250 kW, identified by a black collar at the base of the charging plug. > And the adapter is only for DC fast charging, not for Tesla's AC destination chargers. While charging interoperability is a great step forward, all these conditionals will make the transition to EV’s much slower. Imagine if gas stations had a different charger for each vehicle manufacturer. Now imagine that gas station (really ought to rebrand them as refuel stations) had to replace charge points every 2-5 years when newer charger models are made. And this model is supposed to be more sustainable? We really need a standard charging plug / port for EV’s, and it needs to be enforced by the relevant authorities.
- jbellis 3y agoThat's why everyone is standarizing on NACS for new models. Not much you can do about old ones.
- MBCook 3y agoRight. And ford is giving one free adapter for EVERY ford EV for people who already own them or buy them through June(?). Free shipping too. So you put in your order, your vehicle gets a software update, and you’re ready at any station. You don’t have to wait for a new vehicle with the NACS plug. The car doesn’t need to be retrofit.
- gnicholas 3y agoJust FYI this is only for 2021 and newer vehicles: https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/electric-vehicles/public-charging/how-do-i-get-a-fast-charging-adapter-nacs/ https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/electric-vehicles/publi...
- vel0city 3y agoDid any of their pre-2021 EVs even support DCFC at all?
- Mistletoe 3y agoHow does the billing work? I know with our Tesla it just billed our Tesla account and knew our car. How do other manufacturers using these work? Will my Volvo EX30 just talk to the Tesla equipment when I get it? Edit: Sorry I see it says this in the article. > Ford EVs already use the ISO 15118 "plug and charge" protocol, which means they give the charger their billing details as part of the electronic handshake, obviating the need to use an app or credit card to start a charging session. Are the prices the same as the rates that Tesla charges for Tesla vehicles? It was really cheap for our Tesla and we loved that.
- MBCook 3y agoIt will be billed through ford just like any other Plug & Charge station would be. It’s not clear at the moment if you can start a session in the Tesla app and be billed that way.
- davedx 3y agoYup that’s how it works in NL. My wife uses the Tesla app to start a supercharger session with her Mach E
- pests 3y agoI believe the physical aspect is described via CCS1 and CCS2. But yes the charging cables also carries the information. ISO 15118 does include provisions for wireless communication to support eventual wireless charging.
- amluto 3y agoIt’s interesting that Tesla shows pricing for non-Tesla EVs using Tesla superchargers but does not (AFAICT) show pricing for Tesla cars. It’s extra odd given that Tesla’s sort-of-sister-company SpaceX is notes for its transparent pricing.
- pests 3y agoHmm? Do you mean online or something as the car does show the price (per min or per kwh, depending on jurisdiction) in-car when you are browsing the superchargers on the map.
- jamesy0ung 3y agoThe price of the electricity delivered by the supercharger is shown when you use the Tesla app or the in car navigation. At least in Australia it does.
- DennisAleynikov 3y agoIt shows it for me as well in the US. All of this info is transparent
- amluto 3y agoAnd if you are considering buying a car and want to know what charging costs?
- 3y ago
- 1970-01-01 3y agoThe order will be Ford, GM, Rivian, Volvo..it's the same order the OEMs decided to make a deal. Elon won't let anyone get ahead of anyone else, because money is not the objective.
- brtkdotse 3y ago> money is not the objective What is the objective in your opinion?
- 1970-01-01 3y agoA shockingly useful, working, and reliable nationwide supercharger network. Take the pun.
- brtkdotse 3y agoSo money is the objective, but with extra steps ;)
- 1970-01-01 3y agoIf money was the objective, they would have vending machines and unskippable ads on superchargers. Monetizing EV charging would be a complete disaster, and Tesla can always leverage it years and years after the adoptions are complete.
- organsnyder 3y ago> If money was the objective, they would have vending machines and unskippable ads on superchargers. Perhaps. Or maybe they decided that having ads would cheapen their brand and hurt sales in the long term.
- josefresco 3y agoThe ads will come once (if) Tesla matures. Mass adoption comes first.
- yieldcrv 3y agoIs there any EV with the uninterrupted glass sunroof of the Tesla Model Y but doesn't look like a Tesla? I would be in the market for that with the fast charging standards rolling out
- ChadMoran 3y agoRivian R1S is interrupted but only between 2nd/3rd rows. Which technically is the same as the Y since it supports a 3rd row.
- dgolds 3y agoAudi e-tron GT. Sounds expensive but in the USA, there are huge lease incentives from Audi. Take a look on leasehackr.com
- eichin 3y agoPolestar 2 (looks enough like a volvo that volvo fans will come up and ask about it, partly because the only branding is the + logo.)
- kristofferR 3y agoWell, Polestar is a Volvo brand.
- JojoFatsani 3y agoVolvo and Polestar are both Geely brands. Volvo is decoupling from Polestar and they'll each be pretty independent at that point, although the corporate lineage may lead to technology sharing you would think.
- recursive 3y agoMy Mustang Mach E has an all-glass roof. I guess it's available on the Premium and California Route 1 trim levels.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
- p1mrx 3y ago> the adapter is only for DC fast charging, not for Tesla's AC destination chargers I wonder what actually happens if you try to use a Tesla destination to J1772 adapter with a NACS DC charger? In that case, the 400-1000VDC pins are connected to the 240VAC pins on the vehicle. Is the NACS handshake smart enough to detect this fault before the power turns on? I have one of those adapters, but I stuck a "120-240V AC ONLY" label on it because I don't want to find out.
- 0xfae 3y agoIn NACS the DC and AC pins are the same pins. The car only connects the charge port pins to either the AC/DC charger or to the DC battery after it communicates with the charger and tells the charger what voltage / amps it wants.
- p1mrx 3y agoYou are describing the behavior of a NACS vehicle. I'm wondering what happens if you connect a DC charger to the AC pins of a CCS1 vehicle, and then start the DC handshake. If the DC charger is required to passively sense the battery voltage before charging, then it's probably fine. Otherwise, magic smoke!
- theluketaylor 3y agoThe signalling won't work, so nothing will happen.
- p1mrx 3y agoHow do the endpoints know the difference between a J1772 or CCS1 adapter, if the adapters are passive? Don't they use the same signalling pins?
- anticensor 3y agoNo power is provided until negotiation using the signalling authorises the power transfer.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- nunez 3y agoThis is incredible news...and might also be the death knell to the Cybertruck (traditional pick-up vs antialiased 3D polygon)
- blehn 3y agoYou might be underestimating how many Cybertruck buyers are not pickup truck buyers. Also not sure that a little added charging convenience is going to sway Cybertruck buyers to an F150. The "antialiased 3D polygon" design is a big part of the appeal.
- ActorNightly 3y agoNot really. Nobody is cross shopping Cybertruck (novelty expensive toy) with Lightning (somewhat practical truck option)
- chikitabanana 3y agoIn practice, both are often used as expensive toys. But you're correct, very little substitution. One targets gangly code monkeys, the other targets the bearded and obese
- bluGill 3y agoFord at least is attempting to go after the pro market though. You are correct it is mostly toys, but I expect the pro market will start buying them more as they figure out how nice it is. (in many areas the first thing the pro does is unload the generator - the truck can provide all the power they need for a day and get back home, thus saving a ton of money in gas)
- chikitabanana 3y agoAgreed. F-150 has far more commercial applications than the Cybertruck.
- DennisAleynikov 3y ago
- hyperthesis 3y agoEdison is famous for his lightbulb, but more significant was his electric power stations and infrastructure (via GE). Similar for Birdseye frozen fish and freezer infrastructure in supermarkets. Selling some of the cars is one thing; selling fuel to all of the cars is another. Who's richer: car manufacturers or oil companies?
- decafninja 3y agoSupercharger stations are Tesla’s killer app though. Say what you want about their cars or Elon but no one else comes close to their Supercharger network in both coverage and reliability. It’s one objective reason why you’d pick a Tesla versus another EV. Now that they’re opening it, it’s a competitive advantage lost. You could argue that it was always a matter of time before everyone else caught up, but this is accelerating the schedule. Tesla (the company, the stock) seems to be a time bomb of trying to outrun the competition before they catch up. Lately they seem to be squandering the massive lead they had, partially because of Elon’s stupid shenanigans.
- DennisAleynikov 3y agoForcing all of their competitors to pay 35% more at their fast charging network and being known as the only viable EV in North America is enough of a benefit still. Nobody is selling NACS cars with the Tesla connector yet. They will soon but why bother with a cheap imitation of Tesla when you could go with the clear market leader and not do any mental gymnastics? Seems simple to me
- decafninja 3y agoDepends if you see Tesla cars as the best EVs or not, especially if the Supercharger network is no longer exclusive. I don’t, and I know a lot of other people think likewise. I see this becoming a wider phenomenon as the competition continues to grow. Hence, what I referred to as the “time bomb”. I say this as someone with a huge number of TSLA shares, albeit someone that wants to dump them sooner rather than later because of reasons like this.
- 3y ago
- dylan604 3y agoSeems like a strange day for something to start, and it has nothing to do with leap years. Starting something on a Thursday seems odd. Starting something major and new like this not on a 1st seems odd. It just so happens to also be a leap day, but starting something on the last day of the month seems odd.
- MostlyStable 3y agoOnly tangentially related....but why do so many people seem obsessed with the "network" when it comes to chargers? I'm a non-tesla EV owner, and on the relatively rare occasions that I need a lvl 3 charger, I do find myself almost (but not entirely) exclusively using EA chargers, but this is because A)they are usually conveniently located and B) they are almost always the cheapest available option. I do not care at all that they are part of the same network, and I would happily use whatever charger was convenient and cheap, just like I used to do with gas stations. There is no advantage, to me as a driver, of it being part of a "network".
- LUmBULtERA 3y agoMy understanding is that the Tesla supercharger network was/is the most reliable network, whereas there were frequent reports of the unreliability of all non-Tesla networks. Also once all the networks adopt the NACS plug, it will be great because all vehicles should be able to connect with all charge networks and I'm looking forward to the high availability and competition that will offer.
- rconti 3y agoI have a Tesla and haven't had occasion to use a non-Tesla L3 charger, but my understanding is that different networks may make it easier to pay without a credit card, or offer discounts for being part of their network, or maybe don't have a credit card reader at all? And having their app installed on your phone (or whatever) will make it easier to find them or view the realtime status. So I would think it's simply easier to always use the same network or else you're juggling apps and payment methods.
- bahama_mama 3y agoOne aspect that is quite important to me but I can't find it mentioned anywhere is the integration with the API of superchargers. Will Ford cars get live access to statistics on what superchargers are available in what capacity that could help planning the trip a bit better? It's finally a good time to start considering other EVs than Tesla assuming one drives relatively far distances. One thing that Tesla car still does exceptionally well is trip planning where I don't have to think anything about planning the trip w.r.t. charging. I don't know if using CarPlay with Apple Maps would provide similar experience.
- WaxProlix 3y agoNot sure about Ford, but for Rivians at least it looks like the answer is yes. So the integration is presumably doable. https://twitter.com/Rivian/status/1763286448927904232 https://twitter.com/Rivian/status/1763286448927904232