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BYD launches $15,000 EV
- no_wizard 3y agoIn China. No word on if this will ever make it outside that market. Never the less it’s a good achievement. Auto industry is continuing to grow there and going as close to majority EV as possible out the gate is a net win
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoIt could make it to lots of developing world markets, where BYD already has market share. So it won't just be china, but lots of markets that just aren't the USA and perhaps Western Europe or Japan.
- a_bonobo 3y agoThere are heaps BYDs driving around here in Australia. I'd say by now more than Teslas
- iamthemonster 3y agoMy BYD Atto 3 is costing me A$155 a week, with a rebate equivalent to 35 weekly payments, and I'll run it largely for free via solar. My whole car and CTP registration is costing me the same as 83 litres of petrol a week. The novated lease FBT exemption is incredibly generous (excessively so - it's bad policy)
- newsclues 3y agoThey are going to Mexico to test NA market.
- mappu 3y agoThe BYD Seagull (cost about 17k AUD / 12k USD) didn't make it to Australia. There was some mention about safety standards. Hopefully this new model makes it further around the world,
- resolutebat 3y agoThe BYD Seal, BYD's Tesla 3 clone down to the recessed door handles, is available in Australia and selling like hotcakes, not least because at ~AU$50k it's $20k less than a $70k Tesla.
- freetime2 3y agoChina is the second largest market for the Corolla after North America (as of 2016 at least) [1]. So even if it only kills the Corolla in China, that’s a pretty big deal. [1] https://global.toyota/en/corolla50th/history/by_the_numbers/ https://global.toyota/en/corolla50th/history/by_the_numbers/
- scarab92 3y agoBYD’s success is in no small part due to substantial government subsidies. We’re not talking about relatively small tax or CO2 incentives, but rather large upfront interest free loans with questionable expectations of repayment. This meant that BYD could leapfrog the growth stage and invest directly into new large automated factories before even having found market fit. I expect they’ll do well in smaller countries, but larger western countries with existing domestic car makers will impose large tarrifs to neutralise their unfair advantage.
- DanielVZ 3y agoAt least in my LATAM country, BYD already has a hefty chunk of the electric car market. Most of our capital’s public transport buses are BYD as well. Maybe they target emerging economies
- parl_match 3y agoSomeone please explain to me how the math works here. $15k usd is insanely low, do they really have that economy of scale or is this a subsidized attack on major car manufacturers, or is it both? Or is it something else?
- NewJazz 3y agoI think this is for the Chinese market only right now? Besides, 48 kWh battery is pretty small. Newer Chevy Bolts pack on 66 kWhs, and those vehicles are priced pretty low as-is. As with most standard models, I'd bet there are a lot of features you'd want requiring an upgrade to a higher trim.
- smcin 3y agoClaimed CLTC (China light-duty vehicle test cycle) ranges: - with 48 kWh battery pack, up to 261 ml (420 km) - with 57.6 kWh battery pack 316 mi (510 km) - there is also apparently a 71.7 kWh battery pack option CLTC ranges are supposed to be ~35% higher than EPA ranges. Can't find warranty length or details.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago> CLTC ranges are supposed to be ~35% higher than EPA ranges. A very polite way of saying "the usual specification-bullshitting the Chinese are famous for."
- smcin 3y agoI didn't say that and I don't think it's helpful to use language like that. The EU quoted ranges are also higher than the EPA ranges: > "The European Union + some other territories (Turkey, Israel) rely on WLTP (Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicles Test Procedure), which replaced the wildly optimistic and now obsolete NEDC (New European Driving Cycle) in 2019. The CLTC (China Light Duty Vehicle Test Cycle) replaced the NEDC in China and is usually the most unrealistically optimistic of the three. ...To make things a little confusing, though, not every automaker applies the results from the tests equally.* https://insideevs.com/features/343231/heres-how-to-calculate-conflicting-ev-range-test-cycles-epa-wltp-nedc/ https://insideevs.com/features/343231/heres-how-to-calculate...
- vsskanth 3y agoSo what's stopping Chinese EV manufacturers from selling in the US? Are the safety regulations so much different from China?
- firejake308 3y agoThe biggest factor is import tariffs
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoIt is a reciprocal import tariff, meaning China charges as much for American imports as we charge for Chinese imports (why BYD had to set up an EV bus in California, and why Tesla setup a factory in Shanghai). Used to work more to China's advantage (protection from American car imports) but now works to its disadvantage (since American car makers are now protected from Chinese imports).
- londons_explore 3y agoShipping low cost cars is fairly expensive. It might actually make more sense to have 1 assembly factory per continent and just ship parts. Assembling a car is < 1 days labour, so even if you're paying high north American labour rates, it's still cheaper than a spot on a ship from China.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoBYD is going to set up in North America (like Tesla did). They can setup a factory in Mexico (where they are already selling cars?) just as easily as they can setup in Mississippi. I expect them to eventually setup in a car plant somewhere in an American southern state or Mexico. To avoid the tariff and for shipping reasons. Japan used to make a lot of their USA-bound cars in Japan, even the cheap ones. I guess that is a difference between the 70s and today, though.
- papercrane 3y agoThere are reports that they're looking to build a factory in Mexico. Likely for that very reason, as then they should be covered by the US-Canada-Mexico free trade agreement.
- lethologica 3y agoCorolla killer is jumping the gun a bit. Will these cars still be operational in 30+ years? What will their condition be like after 500,000km on the clock? Once they reach these milestones then maybe they can call themselves a Corolla killer.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoAt that price, does it matter? You know what a Toyota costs today new? How many people drive their car to 500k km?
- lethologica 3y agoIf price is your only concern you could also buy a 1990 Corolla for a fraction of that price too. And it’ll likely still run pretty flawlessly. I wonder if these will stand the test of time is the point I’m trying to make.
- ProllyInfamous 3y agoI was not aware there was an EV Corolla in 1990..? I see no mention of this on the usual car&drivers.
- riehwvfbk 3y agoThere was, however, an EV RAV4 in 1997 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV)
- ProllyInfamous 3y agoCool! Thanks for the link.
- stevenwoo 3y agoThere's one I see in my local city center all the time, they live about two miles away so not a big trip. :)
- henriquez 3y agoThis is a joke. All of these vehicles “launch” at unbelievably low prices, get delayed and end up costing twice as much or more years later when they finally release… a cheap Chinese Toyota knockoff has a LOT to prove.
- pokepim 3y ago[dead]
- fnordpiglet 3y agoI’m confused : “””the all-electric Qin Plus has five models priced between 109,800 RMB to ($A23,300) to 139,800 RMB ($A29,700).””” $23300!=$15000 Edit: ah I see it’s got a three way currency conversion just to make it all clearer!
- chpatrick 3y agoAustralian dollars.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoA is AUD, this might be an Australian mag. 23k AUD is actually 15k USD. Weird that they quote USD first.
- ambichook 3y agoaussie outlet, quoting an american source who speaks in USD, thats where the 15k is coming from. then gets converted to AUD for local readers
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- elithp 3y agoThere's literally zero percent chance this is the "Corolla Killer". Toyota has built an amazing reputation for decades, this is just a cheaper EV sedan lol.
- handonam 3y agoWe only have the perspective as observers outside of China, so I would caution how we interpret this article. However, it may be possible that this COULD be the Corolla for the Chinese market. They do have a lot of EV manufacturers (300+ I believe?). State-side (or even worldwide)? It takes some more convincing. And the article doesn't explicitly say it would be the next Corolla killer for the US market..
- teleforce 3y agoOn a similar note, a GWM Tank 300 that cost 1/5 or 1/10 of Mercedes G-Wagon price (depending on the countries) is as good if not better in term of interior luxury, moving from A to B and off-road capability [1]. It now has reached its 300K milestone production recently and has 5-star NCAP safety rating. It has taken 4WD scene in China by storm and fast becoming Corolla of 4WD world. [1]Cybertank 300 Is A Batshit Crazy $47K Chinese SUV With 227 HP: https://carnewschina.com/2021/08/17/cybertank-300-crazy-47-000-chinese-suv-with-227-hp/ https://carnewschina.com/2021/08/17/cybertank-300-crazy-47-0...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- KennyBlanken 3y ago"Good not if better in terms of interior luxury"? You're wildly delusional or have never actually been in a Mercedes, Audi, or BMW. Maybe the pre-reworked G-wagons - those were basically tarted up army trucks - but definitely not the new ones. https://youtu.be/ML_zUFp0igY?t=278 https://youtu.be/ML_zUFp0igY?t=278 Listen to the noises the interior components make when opened/closed and how they look. It's all super cheap, hard, undampened plastic. Another video - listen to the noise the door makes when it closes. There isn't a lick of sound deadening material in there and the door is probably made of thin-as-paper metal. https://youtu.be/t0vM3B9oJqs?t=74 https://youtu.be/t0vM3B9oJqs?t=74 Keep watching and you'll see how bad the stitching is on the back of the front passenger seat. Here you can see the dome light plastic is painted silver and it's already been scratched up badly, and you can hear the lack of dampening and sound deadening when he actuates the switches (and note there's no soft on/off): https://youtu.be/t0vM3B9oJqs?t=86 https://youtu.be/t0vM3B9oJqs?t=86 ...then you can hear the entire back seat rattle as he squeezes the headrest. Here he slaps the rear passenger seat and it sounds like the sort of noise I'd expect out of a 1990's Chevy: https://youtu.be/t0vM3B9oJqs?t=92 https://youtu.be/t0vM3B9oJqs?t=92 Guaranteed that when driving that thing on any sort of road that isn't perfectly smooth, it'll be a veritable din of rattling.
- Aurornis 3y agoCool vehicle, but comparing it to a Mercedes G-Class platform that has been refined and optimized over 45 years and entrusted by militaries around the world is one hell of a stretch. This looks more like a cheap Jeep alternative with an attempt at a luxury interior (that looks ultra tacky and cheap to me, but to each their own). I’m always surprised at how HN will rant about cheap Chinese products on Amazon all day, but the moment a press release for a Chinese G-Class knockoff comes out we’re supposed to believe it’s the superior vehicle.
- ilamont 3y agoAnyone else remember the Yugo? Lots of enthusiasm for that car when it launched for $4999 or whatever. I knew someone who owned two of them … one for parts, the other to drive. Low prices can get you only so far in the US market. Once there are doubts about quality or safety, you’re toast. Details: https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/a-quick-history-of-the-yugo https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shopping-guides/a-quick-history...
- acdha 3y ago> Once there are doubts about quality or safety, you’re toast. If they did only as well as Tesla, that’d be a big success.
- classichasclass 3y agoNah, let's let Dan Neil defenestrate it in grand form. "Yugo. Or not." https://content.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,1658545_1658533_1658529,00.html https://content.time.com/time/specials/2007/article/0,28804,...
- Mistletoe 3y ago“It’s built for efficiency, not speed!” Samuel Jackson’s character about the Yugo in Die Hard with a Vemgeance
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- tawayrant 3y ago[flagged]
- aurareturn 3y ago“Many Chinese nationalists”. No, there are many American nationalists and Chinese rationalists. 1/100 article posted here that isn’t anti china and someone in the comments is bound to complain about how HN is turning into CCP shills.
- ThisIsMyAltAcct 3y agoSpeak of the devil
- aurareturn 3y agoSorry if the truth hurts you.
- axus 3y agoYeah I was mislead by the title thinking this was a worldwide release, but it's still interesting manufacturing news. Maybe I'm not on enough but I haven't noticed a new BYD article every day.
- callalex 3y agoWe should come up with some kind of democratic voting system where every HN user can help decide what does and doesn’t have anything to do with HN.
- shiroiushi 3y agoDemocratic systems don't get the results existing members want when a bunch of new members are allowed into the system and vote against them. As a thought exercise, imagine some small, liberal, European nation with 10M people suddenly had 20M ultra-conservative Muslims move in, and vote. The laws would change drastically at that point, and the previous citizens probably wouldn't like it very much. I don't know the stats, but if tons of mainland Chinese users are joining HN and voting on stories, and making pro-China comments, then of course this is going to have a big effect on things, and longtime non-Chinese users probably won't like it. I don't really see a solution to this; HN could simply ban traffic from mainland China, but I doubt they'd do that because it's against the whole "freedom" ethos. But if it gets too flooded with China stuff (esp. if it's pro-CCP propaganda), then people will simply leave. Overall, I see this as a big vulnerability in democracy. If you're not careful who you give voting power too, you can get outcomes you really don't like, especially if you give voting power to people who are actively opposed to your existing voter base. It's even worse on the internet where people can write bots to create fake accounts.
- tamimio 3y agoIt won’t be a corolla killer unless it has the same after market parts and maintenance, buying a 15k car to replace the battery later for half that price won’t do it.
- alephnerd 3y ago[dead]
- blululu 3y agoIf 200000 miles on some very bumpy roads haven’t killed my Corolla then I would not expect some ev to kill it. Jokes aside, the Corolla is loved by its owners for its high reliability at the low price point. Fixating on the price only looks at half the picture. This is maybe a Hyundai killer, but it will take 15 years for people to prove that any car has vested the Corolla for reliability.
- est 3y ago> but it will take 15 years There are tons of BYD electric/hybrid taxi out there with >400,000km odometer. see also: a 100,000km durability test for BYD vs Tesla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdl5KzUz_kk&list=PLju1MY2dLCuC4vZ7EhuXCMzBMJJA00g_A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdl5KzUz_kk&list=PLju1MY2dLC...
- blululu 3y agoGood point, there is probably a path toward consumer acceptance of reliability, but commercial and personal car markets are different and that can’t be overlooked. Taxis get regular maintenance and only last a few years. Personal vehicles get spotty maintenance and are kept for more than a decade. This stresses the reliability of the car in different ways. For one thing taxi companies don’t just drive 10k miles with a messed up timing belt. For another the manufacturer is almost guaranteed to sell parts for 5 years after production. But 15 years is a different question. That gets into yard trip territory. I am sure there is a path forward for BYD, but it will take more than a decade for that to establish itself in the market.
- xbmcuser 3y agoI have been saying this for a few months now that chinese ev car manufacturers are coming and they will do to japanese car manufacturers what the Japanese car manufacturers did to american and European car manufacturers. Japanese car manufacturers also started of being considered cheap but unreliable. But they kept improving over time to gain reputation of reliability. I expect Chinese car OEM to do the same add the fact that with solar, wind and battery electricity costs are falling 10% a year. Ice cars will be priced out rapidly in the next few years even used ice cars.
- selcuka 3y agoI don't know. Japanese electronics also started as cheap knockoffs of Western devices, and they've improved. Chinese electronic brands are still questionable after a few decades. The Japanese strategy (or culture) seems to be about improving quality over time, while Chinese business strategy is to stay as cheap as possible.
- kredd 3y agoThe questionable brands like... Anker, DJI, TCL? I mean, at least let's give them credit where credit is due, they've improved in quality for the past couple of decades. Even BYD itself, a decade ago wasn't not even close to be as good as it is right now.
- selcuka 3y ago> The questionable brands like... Anker, DJI, TCL? I mean, at least let's give them credit where credit is due I'm not saying they are all bad, but the quality and brand recognition is all over the place. They haven't produced a Sony, Toshiba, Sharp, Panasonic JVC, AKAI, etc yet.
- kredd 3y agoSorry, but I don't get your point. All three I mentioned are in top 10 of their respective markets. North America is not always their main market target, as it's hard to beat the incumbents, especially when you consider tariffs. Think something like, I've almost never seen anyone using Xiaomi/OPPO phones in North America, but have noticed people using them in Taiwan/Singapore, where the price isn't the only reason why someone would buy them. That being said, a bit more relevant market segment - bus manufacturing, is also full of Chinese companies that are producing those big boys left and right. They're even opening (opened? haven't kept up with the news) a BYD plant here in Canada. Writing this makes me feel like I'm going full on Chinese-shilling, but I enjoy competitive markets and reading about them. You're right that brand names are definitely not as recognized as Sharp/Panasonic, but I think our age shows a bit here. I don't think younger people have heard of Sharp or JVC as they're not common household names anymore, but I can guarantee anyone who has ever thought of buying a drone has heard of DJI.
- nharada 3y agoNot bad for how cheap it is. The range for the 15k car is 420km of CLTC, which probably translates to around 190-200 miles of real world range.
- mft_ 3y agoSomething doesn’t add up; or is that your point about real-world range? > a 48 kWh battery providing 420 km CLTC range The Tesla Model 3 is currently the most efficient EV, and does ~4.5m/kWh, which is ~7.2km/kWh (ballpark; precise figures vary by source). 48kWh x 7.2km/kWh would give 346km range, or ~82% of 420km.
- 7e 3y agoThe most efficient is the Hyundai Ioniq 6 Long Range RWD, followed by Lucid Air Pure AWD or Touring AWD, according to https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/most-efficient-electric-cars-and-trucks-available-today/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/most-efficient-electric-c.... Tesla lies about EPA range, so I wouldn't trust the Model 3 or Y at #3 and #4.
- nharada 3y agoYeah they say CLTC is the most optimistic test of the main three (EPA, WLTP, CLTC) and is about 30-35% higher than the actual range.
- davidw 3y agoNo mention of Taiwan in this thread. I don't know how that factors in exactly or how much, but it is a risk.
- rubatuga 3y agoHopefully there's no battery fires.
- mbfg 3y agodon't like ev? ok. even cheaper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O5Wr2qTLLw&pp=ygUVdG95b3RhIDE1ayBoaWx1eCAyMDIz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O5Wr2qTLLw&pp=ygUVdG95b3RhI...
- jackvalentine 3y agoI am _amazed_ at how fast I've talked myself in to considering a Chinese car. The BYD Dolphin[1] fits my families needs very well and it's only some sense of latent 'eww newcomers to the market' that pushes back. Legacy automakers don't make electric cars that fit my needs! 30 years ago we were leery about Hyundai, 30 years before that Honda. I'm just amazed to observe this shift again. [1] https://bydautomotive.com.au/dolphin https://bydautomotive.com.au/dolphin
- apexalpha 3y agoCan this charge my house yet? Still waiting for a decent car that can be a battery for my house. A cheap BYD with an LFP battery would be a perfect candidate.
- nojvek 3y agoTime will tell. Toyota has taken decades to build their reputation on being reliable and cheap to run/maintain.