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When reading about headset experiences, I'd de-weigh any insights that are within 3 months of the first headset purchase. The first few dozen sessions are novel

When reading about headset experiences, I'd de-weigh any insights that are within 3 months of the first headset purchase. The first few dozen sessions are novel, you get a kick (and social media views) about sharing how completely your life has changed to fit the headset. More often than not, it's collecting dust on the shelf within a few months. Sort of like an expensive blender you were so excited to get, you imagined making super fruit smoothies every morning. Let's see how AVP fares in this regard.

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DiscourseFan 3y ago
Yeah, I really like the Macbook and the iPhone, but basically everything else apple produces is pretty shit these days, even the airpods are just alright (I mean, the audio quality, design, and form factor are amazing, but they are super buggy and there are better wireless earbuds for the price). It would be a great shame if a secure, well designed, easy to use computer loaded with a custom-built, well supported unix-like distro gets trashed because the company that makes it is always trying to "innovate." I don't know if there's much left to innovate in the computer world, there is only so much you can do with ones and zeros. It would be better if they just focused on what works, reliable and secure consumer electronics, instead of trying to be what they were under Steve Jobs. Jobs is dead, he will never come back, and Apple will never be Apple under Jobs again. They should just try to be like the IBM of their space...just there, doing what they do best. An institution, a monolith, but not a "disruptor," as if there are any of those left.
- LeafItAlone 3y ago
  > there are better wireless earbuds for the price Not that I’ve found. Maybe on individual features, but not as a whole product.
  - p5a0u9l 3y ago
    Same here. Bose ear buds noise canceling and bass are incredible. No comparison to the air pods. But god are they big and ugly.
    - Intermernet 3y ago
      I just did a 10 hour flight from Tokyo to Sydney and I wore my Bose QC2 buds for the whole flight. I watched some pre downloaded YouTube videos, and then fell asleep for about 6 hours of actually restful sleep. I cannot express how amazing the noise cancellation is on those things. I was in a 787, seat 29A, window seat, just behind the wing and I could barely hear the sound of the plane. I'm never flying without them again.
    - lovegrenoble 3y ago
      Can you drop a link to your model of Bose please?
  - DiscourseFan 3y ago
    To be fair, when I bought them it was only because I thought they looked cool and I already had other apple devices I knew they would work with; I was willing to pay the premium for the brand, it was a spur of the moment kind of thing and I never factored in competitor value. The funny thing about the Vision Pro was that as soon as I saw it I thought it, and anyone who used it, was really dumb, and I didn't want to be caught dead wearing it--not so for the airpods.
    - expensive_news 3y ago
      This is likely because you bought a pair of AirPods when they were already very popular and everyone thought they were stylish. I bought my first pair of AirPods very close to their initial release and everyone looked at me like I was an idiot for wearing such an ugly and expensive device that couldn’t really do anything better than a $20 pair of earbuds. Do you remember everyone making fun of them at the announcement? It wasn’t until around 2 years later that AirPods were widely worn and accepted. I’m not sure Vision Pro will go through the same adoption curve, but I am not confident that it won’t happen by late v2 or v3.
- andoando 3y ago
  Why does anyone like wireless headphones? 3 different pieces to track, have to constantly be on charge, and pricey at that. I ended up finally buying some iems
  - bowsamic 3y ago
    A lot of younger people never take them out
  - mdhen 3y ago
    and Letshuoer S12 Pro's absolutely blow everything else away in that space and they only cost about $100. Best value in ear phones, easy.
  - crimsontech 3y ago
    If I’m on a call on my computer I can get up and make coffee without leaving the call. If my phone rings I don’t need to switch headphones, they switch devices automatically. I have high quality headphones and IEMs, the headphones I use if I’m _really_ listening to music, maybe a couple of times a week. The IEMs have been in drawer for months without use. The wireless headphones I use every day all day. It’s convenience.
  - Hippocrates 3y ago
    That’s wildly different from my experience. Never lost the pieces or had to “track” them and the charge lasts for longer than I can comfortably listen to something without a short break. Being tethered to a phone or computer with a wire that pulls, catches, and makes rubbing noise through your ears is truly an awful relic of the past.
    - andoando 3y ago
      Never had that problem. I run the cables underneath my shirt and hand the earbuds on my shirt when I’m not using them. Super convenient for me
  - gWPVhyxPHqvk 3y ago
    As a train commuter, wireless headphones are a massive improvement over wired for my semi-daily commute. I used to have the headphone wires constantly getting caught on my bag, other people's jackets, getting twisted and knotted in my bag, etc.
- ActorNightly 3y ago
  >. It would be better if they just focused on what works, reliable and secure consumer electronics, instead of trying to be what they were under Steve Jobs. Man, the amount of history rewriting that happens in tech world is actually insane. Louis Rossman literally made his career out of showcasing how shit apple laptops have been through the years. The evidence is all there. I dunno if people are just willfully ignorant or are actually just lying.
karim79 3y ago
> More often than not, it's collecting dust on the shelf within a few months. I can't speak for the Apple Vision Pro, I'd love to try one, to be honest. But I can agree with your comment. Such has been my experience with the two headsets I own - the Meta Quest 2, which I think is really great and serves many purposes, and the PSVR 2 headset, which is phenomenal for gaming, but pretty much useless for anything else. Both headsets have had a short-lived "wow" factor to them, without a doubt, but sadly, the novelty tends to wear off within weeks. I haven't used my Quest 2 since early 2023 (I think) and the PSVR 2's last use was for a game called Pavlov, which is simply mind-blowing, despite which, I think the hassle of headsets is problematic. For real gaming I go back to couch gaming with the Xbox or PS5, and for computer things I use computers. Funny thing is, I keep meaning to do more with the PSVR 2 but now it's actually so dusty that it puts me off, it needs a full cleaning at this stage :). Edit: Meta Quest -> Meta Quest 2
- nox101 3y ago
  For me, VR comes down to content. Because the market is too small, there is none. There's few high end titles. HL:Alyx, Horizon: Call of the Mountain? Sometimes you get a port but then it wasn't originally designed for VR and it usually shows. There's zero on the Quest 2/3 because it's a mobile device and it's not up to it and at least in my experience the link is not up to it either. I'm not saying there are not some good experiences there. Several rhythm games are fun, a couple of games designed for low-power mobile devices. But the fully immersive high quality graphics games are so few an far between. If there were more I'd keep playing.
roland35 3y ago
I still love making smoothies, it just turned out that they are way too many calories :(
dijit 3y ago
I love this comment, I think you're completely right. What I love most about this comment is how it caused me to reflect on what I use daily and get some amount of joy from. When it comes to Apple products in particular I use an Apple Studio display at home, I use it for 10hours per day, every day, and honestly I have no complaints, it's probably one of the best bits of technology I use daily. However, it's completely unsexy and has (at least on paper) extremely stiff competition. Not only that it was maligned by the tech media upon release. Yet, it just subtlely benefits my life because the speakers are excellent, the webcam is servicable (the novelty of the fact it tracks you never truly wears off) and the size/pixel density is great. It's weird that I'm waxing poetic like this about such a boring device, but that's kinda my point, your comment made me reflect about all the little tech around me that I use every day that just sort of shifted into the background. Quietly doing its job excellently.
- filmgirlcw 3y ago
  Yeah, I agree. I rolled my eyes when I bought the Studio Display because of the price (I got the VESA option so I also had to factor in $200 for an Ergotron LX just so I could use it the way I’d want) and I’m annoyed by its lack of power button, its garbage web camera, and the really that it has no better picture quality than the v2 LG UltraFine 5K it was replacing, despite costing $300 more, but if it broke tomorrow I’d buy another one without a second thought (also the VESA option — also just say no to the Nano Texture option). In fact, I might even get a second one this year because I have 3 Macs (2 M-series laptops and a 2020 5K iMac) and it would be nice to have one dedicated to the laptops instead of having to swap the cable for the TB4 dock. Until/unless Apple does fractional scaling in a way that doesn’t really need pixel doubling to work, I will insist on a 5K display for a 27” monitor and the ASD really is the best game in town.
  - theyinwhy 3y ago
    So what's the benefit of the ASD if it has no better picture quality than the LG?
    - dagmx 3y ago
LoganDark 3y ago
With ADHD, it doesn't even take 3 months. Give me one day and I'll never touch something again. Hell, some of the things I buy, I don't even use a first time, because having stuff doesn't actually help with motivation
babyshake 3y ago
There will be an inflection point with devices like Vision Pro, where you'd rather do things you do right now with a laptop, tablet or TV in the Vision Pro instead of with those other devices. Then the other devices will be the ones gathering dust. The hard part is being able to know when that inflection point comes. But I think there's a very good chance that 10 years from now, it's already behind us.
- steve1977 3y ago
  if putting on the Vision Pro is as fast and seamless as grabbing a tablet or opening up your laptop I guess.
  - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
    when it's a pair of sunglasses with the Facial Studio Code already opened to your project, in other words.
    - 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
      Too bad "Visual" is already taken.. maybe Vision Studio Code.
- Turskarama 3y ago
  Here's my prediction for this: you need to have input with the same fidelity and ease of use as a mouse and keyboard. The mouse input analogy is probably pretty close with eye tracking, but text input? I can't even imagine what it will look like to make that work as nicely as real touch typing.
  - tiagod 3y ago
    You can use a macbook keyboard and trackpad seamlessly with the headset
  - WanderPanda 3y ago
    It will probably look like a keyboard. Keyboards are so lindy at this point they didn’t even adjust the layout (from that path-dependent mess we are dealing with), let alone the form factor
mvkel 3y ago
Couldn't agree more. I bought an AVP on day one to be used -exclusively- as a monitor extender for coding. It's untenable. The only way I could avoid significant neck/back pain from the weight was to sit in a reclining chair. That wouldn't be a bad coding setup, but my eye strain was pretty significant, too. I ended up returning mine. This is a necessary 1.0 to build out the app ecosystem, etc. but it's absolutely not ready for full-time use.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  > The only way I could avoid significant neck/back pain from the weight was to sit in a reclining chair Lying on a bed would also do the trick.
  - nomel 3y ago
    I've had some great coding sessions on my ceiling, with my quest 3.
    - glinkot 3y ago
      Interesting! What software did you use for that? And how did you set your keyboard up?
      - nomel 3y ago
        Immersed VR, connected to my MacBook over the network. Used a bluetooth keyboard (with a crappy integrated trackpad) on my MacBook for mouse. I have an IR floodlight, that just barely works in the dark, for the tracking.
  - jazzyjackson 3y ago
    doing some pushups also helps
- jliptzin 3y ago
  I almost returned mine for that exact reason until I used it in bed before going to sleep. I have never fallen asleep faster. I know it sounds really strange that a computer strapped to my face helps me sleep but I guess something about the whole immersive environment really helps. I also don’t feel the pressure on my head when I’m lying down.
anonzzzies 3y ago
I ditched my laptop for the xreal well over two years ago. I will never go back. This looks a 1000 times better but too expensive for now.
- layer8 3y ago
  It’s better in terms of visuals, but worse in terms of weight, bulkiness, and your faces/eyes being enclosed.
_xivi 3y ago
> collecting dust on the shelf within a few months Not even that, apparently many customers are already returning them[1]. Most of the hype, as usual, is tech reviewers who want to stay relevant. Early adopters will naturally chase any and every opportunity to make use of them, but in the coming months as novelty wears off, more issues arise, you get the (The ecosystem is just not ready yet)™ and most will be listed on the secondhand market. [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/14/24072792/apple-vision-pro-early-adopters-returns https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/14/24072792/apple-vision-pro...
beloch 3y ago
It shouldn't be surprising that an AR workstation isn't as good as the real thing. If you're at home or at work, the AVP is going to sit on the shelf while you sit at your workstation. While an AR set can, in theory, surround you with code, you can only really focus on one window at a time. Old-fashioned monitors have had a long time to get good at providing that experience. Still, it would be pretty darned cool to be able to take something even half as good on the road in a package that will easily fit in a backpack! I am entirely done with Apple and will not be buying any more of their products, but I look forward to the competition that AVP will foster.
- jimmySixDOF 3y ago
  > Old-fashioned monitors have had a long time to get good at providing that experience. That's part of the problem framing the AVP as a system for 2D floating screens. 2D screens are good at what they do. 360 degree 3D with Six Degrees of Freedom is a completely different surface area and we are still at the Horseless Carriage stage of development of that affordance space. There are a few experiments in what's possible [1] but, for the most part, if all you throw at these devices is a floating screen then the novelty wears off and we have the conversations we are having in this thread instead of thinking about what more is possible. [1] VR Immersive IDE: https://primitive.io/ https://primitive.io/
  - Fluorescence 3y ago
    The problem is it's not a horseless carriage... it's more like a hang-glider or something. For the some niche things, fantastic, it's unique. Feeling inside a 3d scene, two handed manipulations of 3d objects... it's the hang-glider jumping off a mountain which no horse can do. If you currently render something in 3d on a monitor, VR might help and some new things like training for physical tasks might be cool too. The hang-glider just isn't useful for commuters getting from A to B which in this case, is office work. It's text, it's numbers, it's organisation, it's communication. Throwing things around in 3d is just a gimmick that will likely slow you down. Moving your head or waving your hands around are not better ergonomically than a good monitor, keyboard and seating. Using a keystroke to flip the app/tabs in your field of view is more comfortable than turning to look at your wall. > VR Immersive IDE This is like every 3d scifi UX you could see in compsci department since the 90s. I get it, everyone wants to create that cool looking scene from Prometheus but sadly no-one wants 4 lines of code exploded into a huge visual call-graph with dozens of nodes, interconnections everywhere and translucent text. VR won't change that. No-one really wants to drive around a city to find their files in a Gibson either. For VR, you don't want to look at text that's far away, you don't want to look at text at weird angles... so what is a 3d environment adding? The ideal is to bring perfectly sized legible text at a comfortable focal distance into your gaze, that's what an automobile will need to do.
fullspectrumdev 3y ago
The way I see it, by the time AVP is available in Europe, there will probably be sufficient data from US users to give me an idea as to if it’s worthwhile. So far hearing vastly mixed reviews about its “balance” on the users head - when I wear night vision goggles or similar devices I have to use a counter mass at the back of the helmet to make it comfortable. It seems the AVP doesn’t have such a balancing weight?
- LoveMortuus 3y ago
  I was thinking that it might be possible to mount the battery to the back of the headset, like you see on various other headsets, which might counterbalance it. But because so many keep talking about how heavy the headset already is, I think this might introduce new issues, especially if you turn your head quickly.
ActorNightly 3y ago
Also, de-weigh anything Apple branded significantly. You can easily code on Quest 3 if you really wanted to do AR/VR, and could do it on Quest Pro as well a year ago. While its true that Vision does offer better resolution, lets not pretend that people who are trying the Vision Pro have significant experience with AR/VR headsets, chasing the ability to work anywhere. Its brand fanboyishness at its core: "Apple made therefore its good and usefull".
brcmthrowaway 3y ago
Speaking of Blender, does anyone know some good tutorials?
dgellow 3y ago
It’s also a first generation device, often a good idea to just wait a bit, if it is such a revolutionary tool you won’t miss much by skipping the first version (other than feeling cool that you were in the first users).
helpfulContrib 3y ago
[dead]
keyle 3y ago
Oy sounds like you wrote the fate of my DK2.
spookie 3y ago
For me, my Valve Index has completely changed how I do 3D modelling, I suppose this would do the same for many people. We programmers are quite the outsiders, and sometimes its hard for us to understand how others see computers. It's better to be patient before jumping to conclusions, this goes for first impressions or what we think it's gonna happen.
- rxyz 3y ago
  Most programmers are anything but outsiders. It's not a niche profession anymore
  - dartos 3y ago
    Being a programmer necessarily changes how you approach and interact with computers. After a while (and not a long one) you develop a serious usability bias since you can intuit what a program is doing and how best to interact with it. The longer you work in software, the harder it is to accurately imagine how a non programmer uses a computer. That’s why the classic “only users could cause this error” jokes exist.
    - sfn42 3y ago
      The way i see it, that's just a huge advantage. My partner works as a medical research assistant. They had filled data into a huge spreadsheet in a software I think was called IBM SSES or something along those lines. Basically an excel spreadsheet, with hundreds of columns and tens of thousands of rows. One of the analyses they wanted to run wasn't working correctly so she was tasked with filling in 0s in place of empty cells. She was expecting to spend 2-3 weeks doing this. She mentioned it to me, I've never seen this software before in my life but it took me 15 minutes to figure out how to do three weeks of manual work instantly. Just googled it and followed some instructions. Being able to understand software is a useful skill. We should find ways to bring the average person up to speed, help them understand what computers can do so they too can see a task like that and be like "there's no way the software doesn't have an easier way to do that" instead of wasting time doing pointless busywork.
al_borland 3y ago
This has been my reply to most people asking me if I’m going to buy a Vision Pro. It seems like after a week or two I’m going to want to do something, and a TV, laptop, or phone is good enough… I won’t want to go through the ceremony of putting on the headset and entering that environment to do some basic stuff, especially not if there is a remote chance I’ll be multitasking with stuff in the real world. That said, I tried one on at the Apple Store the other day and the immersive stuff was really cool and I’d like to see more of it. But I think it makes sense to wait for the amount of content to increase and the price to come down.
- masto 3y ago
  To be honest, I'm kind of at that point. At first I was using it every day because it was new and I was curious, then I was using it every day because I wanted to give it a good try, then I was still using it but increasingly thinking "can I find any way in which this is better than just using a computer/iPad?". As of this morning, I'm writing this comment on my laptop, because going into the other room and strapping on googles feels like a chore, not a desirable activity. I don't regret the purchase; I did not expect it to change my life, and I've actually had my skepticism about spatial computing turned around. I hope there is a future where we can do the same things in a less physically cumbersome way.
bsdpufferfish 3y ago
This comment does not address anything in the article or say anything of substance. Everything is more exciting when it’s novel. That’s part of the fun of consumer electronics, games, movies, etc.
easylogin 3y ago
I'd generally agree, but it definitely depends on how the device is being used. My VR headsets don't see much usage outside of simracing which I'd consider a hobby more than just gaming. So my point is that, "working" might present that same routine which demos/gaming/facehugger yt with low return on novelty.
dep_b 3y ago
FWIW I still use my blender almost every day. It's a great start of the day, so I can eat like a sinner the rest for the day. Didn't lose a gram of weight but I don't feel guilty about it anymore!

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DiscourseFan 3y ago

Yeah, I really like the Macbook and the iPhone, but basically everything else apple produces is pretty shit these days, even the airpods are just alright (I mean, the audio quality, design, and form factor are amazing, but they are super buggy and there are better wireless earbuds for the price). It would be a great shame if a secure, well designed, easy to use computer loaded with a custom-built, well supported unix-like distro gets trashed because the company that makes it is always trying to "innovate." I don't know if there's much left to innovate in the computer world, there is only so much you can do with ones and zeros. It would be better if they just focused on what works, reliable and secure consumer electronics, instead of trying to be what they were under Steve Jobs. Jobs is dead, he will never come back, and Apple will never be Apple under Jobs again. They should just try to be like the IBM of their space...just there, doing what they do best. An institution, a monolith, but not a "disruptor," as if there are any of those left.

LeafItAlone 3y ago
> there are better wireless earbuds for the price Not that I’ve found. Maybe on individual features, but not as a whole product.
- p5a0u9l 3y ago
  Same here. Bose ear buds noise canceling and bass are incredible. No comparison to the air pods. But god are they big and ugly.
  - Intermernet 3y ago
    I just did a 10 hour flight from Tokyo to Sydney and I wore my Bose QC2 buds for the whole flight. I watched some pre downloaded YouTube videos, and then fell asleep for about 6 hours of actually restful sleep. I cannot express how amazing the noise cancellation is on those things. I was in a 787, seat 29A, window seat, just behind the wing and I could barely hear the sound of the plane. I'm never flying without them again.
  - lovegrenoble 3y ago
    Can you drop a link to your model of Bose please?
- DiscourseFan 3y ago
  To be fair, when I bought them it was only because I thought they looked cool and I already had other apple devices I knew they would work with; I was willing to pay the premium for the brand, it was a spur of the moment kind of thing and I never factored in competitor value. The funny thing about the Vision Pro was that as soon as I saw it I thought it, and anyone who used it, was really dumb, and I didn't want to be caught dead wearing it--not so for the airpods.
  - expensive_news 3y ago
    This is likely because you bought a pair of AirPods when they were already very popular and everyone thought they were stylish. I bought my first pair of AirPods very close to their initial release and everyone looked at me like I was an idiot for wearing such an ugly and expensive device that couldn’t really do anything better than a $20 pair of earbuds. Do you remember everyone making fun of them at the announcement? It wasn’t until around 2 years later that AirPods were widely worn and accepted. I’m not sure Vision Pro will go through the same adoption curve, but I am not confident that it won’t happen by late v2 or v3.
andoando 3y ago
Why does anyone like wireless headphones? 3 different pieces to track, have to constantly be on charge, and pricey at that. I ended up finally buying some iems
- bowsamic 3y ago
  A lot of younger people never take them out
- mdhen 3y ago
  and Letshuoer S12 Pro's absolutely blow everything else away in that space and they only cost about $100. Best value in ear phones, easy.
- crimsontech 3y ago
  If I’m on a call on my computer I can get up and make coffee without leaving the call. If my phone rings I don’t need to switch headphones, they switch devices automatically. I have high quality headphones and IEMs, the headphones I use if I’m _really_ listening to music, maybe a couple of times a week. The IEMs have been in drawer for months without use. The wireless headphones I use every day all day. It’s convenience.
- Hippocrates 3y ago
  That’s wildly different from my experience. Never lost the pieces or had to “track” them and the charge lasts for longer than I can comfortably listen to something without a short break. Being tethered to a phone or computer with a wire that pulls, catches, and makes rubbing noise through your ears is truly an awful relic of the past.
  - andoando 3y ago
    Never had that problem. I run the cables underneath my shirt and hand the earbuds on my shirt when I’m not using them. Super convenient for me
- gWPVhyxPHqvk 3y ago
  As a train commuter, wireless headphones are a massive improvement over wired for my semi-daily commute. I used to have the headphone wires constantly getting caught on my bag, other people's jackets, getting twisted and knotted in my bag, etc.
ActorNightly 3y ago
>. It would be better if they just focused on what works, reliable and secure consumer electronics, instead of trying to be what they were under Steve Jobs. Man, the amount of history rewriting that happens in tech world is actually insane. Louis Rossman literally made his career out of showcasing how shit apple laptops have been through the years. The evidence is all there. I dunno if people are just willfully ignorant or are actually just lying.

karim79 3y ago

> More often than not, it's collecting dust on the shelf within a few months. I can't speak for the Apple Vision Pro, I'd love to try one, to be honest. But I can agree with your comment. Such has been my experience with the two headsets I own - the Meta Quest 2, which I think is really great and serves many purposes, and the PSVR 2 headset, which is phenomenal for gaming, but pretty much useless for anything else. Both headsets have had a short-lived "wow" factor to them, without a doubt, but sadly, the novelty tends to wear off within weeks. I haven't used my Quest 2 since early 2023 (I think) and the PSVR 2's last use was for a game called Pavlov, which is simply mind-blowing, despite which, I think the hassle of headsets is problematic. For real gaming I go back to couch gaming with the Xbox or PS5, and for computer things I use computers. Funny thing is, I keep meaning to do more with the PSVR 2 but now it's actually so dusty that it puts me off, it needs a full cleaning at this stage :). Edit: Meta Quest -> Meta Quest 2

nox101 3y ago
For me, VR comes down to content. Because the market is too small, there is none. There's few high end titles. HL:Alyx, Horizon: Call of the Mountain? Sometimes you get a port but then it wasn't originally designed for VR and it usually shows. There's zero on the Quest 2/3 because it's a mobile device and it's not up to it and at least in my experience the link is not up to it either. I'm not saying there are not some good experiences there. Several rhythm games are fun, a couple of games designed for low-power mobile devices. But the fully immersive high quality graphics games are so few an far between. If there were more I'd keep playing.

roland35 3y ago

I still love making smoothies, it just turned out that they are way too many calories :(

dijit 3y ago

I love this comment, I think you're completely right. What I love most about this comment is how it caused me to reflect on what I use daily and get some amount of joy from. When it comes to Apple products in particular I use an Apple Studio display at home, I use it for 10hours per day, every day, and honestly I have no complaints, it's probably one of the best bits of technology I use daily. However, it's completely unsexy and has (at least on paper) extremely stiff competition. Not only that it was maligned by the tech media upon release. Yet, it just subtlely benefits my life because the speakers are excellent, the webcam is servicable (the novelty of the fact it tracks you never truly wears off) and the size/pixel density is great. It's weird that I'm waxing poetic like this about such a boring device, but that's kinda my point, your comment made me reflect about all the little tech around me that I use every day that just sort of shifted into the background. Quietly doing its job excellently.

filmgirlcw 3y ago
Yeah, I agree. I rolled my eyes when I bought the Studio Display because of the price (I got the VESA option so I also had to factor in $200 for an Ergotron LX just so I could use it the way I’d want) and I’m annoyed by its lack of power button, its garbage web camera, and the really that it has no better picture quality than the v2 LG UltraFine 5K it was replacing, despite costing $300 more, but if it broke tomorrow I’d buy another one without a second thought (also the VESA option — also just say no to the Nano Texture option). In fact, I might even get a second one this year because I have 3 Macs (2 M-series laptops and a 2020 5K iMac) and it would be nice to have one dedicated to the laptops instead of having to swap the cable for the TB4 dock. Until/unless Apple does fractional scaling in a way that doesn’t really need pixel doubling to work, I will insist on a 5K display for a 27” monitor and the ASD really is the best game in town.
- theyinwhy 3y ago
  So what's the benefit of the ASD if it has no better picture quality than the LG?
  - dagmx 3y ago

LoganDark 3y ago

With ADHD, it doesn't even take 3 months. Give me one day and I'll never touch something again. Hell, some of the things I buy, I don't even use a first time, because having stuff doesn't actually help with motivation

babyshake 3y ago

There will be an inflection point with devices like Vision Pro, where you'd rather do things you do right now with a laptop, tablet or TV in the Vision Pro instead of with those other devices. Then the other devices will be the ones gathering dust. The hard part is being able to know when that inflection point comes. But I think there's a very good chance that 10 years from now, it's already behind us.

steve1977 3y ago
if putting on the Vision Pro is as fast and seamless as grabbing a tablet or opening up your laptop I guess.
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  when it's a pair of sunglasses with the Facial Studio Code already opened to your project, in other words.
  - 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
    Too bad "Visual" is already taken.. maybe Vision Studio Code.
Turskarama 3y ago
Here's my prediction for this: you need to have input with the same fidelity and ease of use as a mouse and keyboard. The mouse input analogy is probably pretty close with eye tracking, but text input? I can't even imagine what it will look like to make that work as nicely as real touch typing.
- tiagod 3y ago
  You can use a macbook keyboard and trackpad seamlessly with the headset
- WanderPanda 3y ago
  It will probably look like a keyboard. Keyboards are so lindy at this point they didn’t even adjust the layout (from that path-dependent mess we are dealing with), let alone the form factor

mvkel 3y ago

Couldn't agree more. I bought an AVP on day one to be used -exclusively- as a monitor extender for coding. It's untenable. The only way I could avoid significant neck/back pain from the weight was to sit in a reclining chair. That wouldn't be a bad coding setup, but my eye strain was pretty significant, too. I ended up returning mine. This is a necessary 1.0 to build out the app ecosystem, etc. but it's absolutely not ready for full-time use.

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
> The only way I could avoid significant neck/back pain from the weight was to sit in a reclining chair Lying on a bed would also do the trick.
- nomel 3y ago
  I've had some great coding sessions on my ceiling, with my quest 3.
  - glinkot 3y ago
    Interesting! What software did you use for that? And how did you set your keyboard up?
    - nomel 3y ago
      Immersed VR, connected to my MacBook over the network. Used a bluetooth keyboard (with a crappy integrated trackpad) on my MacBook for mouse. I have an IR floodlight, that just barely works in the dark, for the tracking.
- jazzyjackson 3y ago
  doing some pushups also helps
jliptzin 3y ago
I almost returned mine for that exact reason until I used it in bed before going to sleep. I have never fallen asleep faster. I know it sounds really strange that a computer strapped to my face helps me sleep but I guess something about the whole immersive environment really helps. I also don’t feel the pressure on my head when I’m lying down.

anonzzzies 3y ago

I ditched my laptop for the xreal well over two years ago. I will never go back. This looks a 1000 times better but too expensive for now.

layer8 3y ago
It’s better in terms of visuals, but worse in terms of weight, bulkiness, and your faces/eyes being enclosed.

_xivi 3y ago

> collecting dust on the shelf within a few months Not even that, apparently many customers are already returning them[1]. Most of the hype, as usual, is tech reviewers who want to stay relevant. Early adopters will naturally chase any and every opportunity to make use of them, but in the coming months as novelty wears off, more issues arise, you get the (The ecosystem is just not ready yet)™ and most will be listed on the secondhand market. [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/14/24072792/apple-vision-pro-early-adopters-returns https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/14/24072792/apple-vision-pro...

beloch 3y ago

It shouldn't be surprising that an AR workstation isn't as good as the real thing. If you're at home or at work, the AVP is going to sit on the shelf while you sit at your workstation. While an AR set can, in theory, surround you with code, you can only really focus on one window at a time. Old-fashioned monitors have had a long time to get good at providing that experience. Still, it would be pretty darned cool to be able to take something even half as good on the road in a package that will easily fit in a backpack! I am entirely done with Apple and will not be buying any more of their products, but I look forward to the competition that AVP will foster.

jimmySixDOF 3y ago
> Old-fashioned monitors have had a long time to get good at providing that experience. That's part of the problem framing the AVP as a system for 2D floating screens. 2D screens are good at what they do. 360 degree 3D with Six Degrees of Freedom is a completely different surface area and we are still at the Horseless Carriage stage of development of that affordance space. There are a few experiments in what's possible [1] but, for the most part, if all you throw at these devices is a floating screen then the novelty wears off and we have the conversations we are having in this thread instead of thinking about what more is possible. [1] VR Immersive IDE: https://primitive.io/ https://primitive.io/
- Fluorescence 3y ago
  The problem is it's not a horseless carriage... it's more like a hang-glider or something. For the some niche things, fantastic, it's unique. Feeling inside a 3d scene, two handed manipulations of 3d objects... it's the hang-glider jumping off a mountain which no horse can do. If you currently render something in 3d on a monitor, VR might help and some new things like training for physical tasks might be cool too. The hang-glider just isn't useful for commuters getting from A to B which in this case, is office work. It's text, it's numbers, it's organisation, it's communication. Throwing things around in 3d is just a gimmick that will likely slow you down. Moving your head or waving your hands around are not better ergonomically than a good monitor, keyboard and seating. Using a keystroke to flip the app/tabs in your field of view is more comfortable than turning to look at your wall. > VR Immersive IDE This is like every 3d scifi UX you could see in compsci department since the 90s. I get it, everyone wants to create that cool looking scene from Prometheus but sadly no-one wants 4 lines of code exploded into a huge visual call-graph with dozens of nodes, interconnections everywhere and translucent text. VR won't change that. No-one really wants to drive around a city to find their files in a Gibson either. For VR, you don't want to look at text that's far away, you don't want to look at text at weird angles... so what is a 3d environment adding? The ideal is to bring perfectly sized legible text at a comfortable focal distance into your gaze, that's what an automobile will need to do.

fullspectrumdev 3y ago

The way I see it, by the time AVP is available in Europe, there will probably be sufficient data from US users to give me an idea as to if it’s worthwhile. So far hearing vastly mixed reviews about its “balance” on the users head - when I wear night vision goggles or similar devices I have to use a counter mass at the back of the helmet to make it comfortable. It seems the AVP doesn’t have such a balancing weight?

LoveMortuus 3y ago
I was thinking that it might be possible to mount the battery to the back of the headset, like you see on various other headsets, which might counterbalance it. But because so many keep talking about how heavy the headset already is, I think this might introduce new issues, especially if you turn your head quickly.

ActorNightly 3y ago

Also, de-weigh anything Apple branded significantly. You can easily code on Quest 3 if you really wanted to do AR/VR, and could do it on Quest Pro as well a year ago. While its true that Vision does offer better resolution, lets not pretend that people who are trying the Vision Pro have significant experience with AR/VR headsets, chasing the ability to work anywhere. Its brand fanboyishness at its core: "Apple made therefore its good and usefull".

brcmthrowaway 3y ago

Speaking of Blender, does anyone know some good tutorials?

dgellow 3y ago

It’s also a first generation device, often a good idea to just wait a bit, if it is such a revolutionary tool you won’t miss much by skipping the first version (other than feeling cool that you were in the first users).

helpfulContrib 3y ago

[dead]

keyle 3y ago

Oy sounds like you wrote the fate of my DK2.

spookie 3y ago

For me, my Valve Index has completely changed how I do 3D modelling, I suppose this would do the same for many people. We programmers are quite the outsiders, and sometimes its hard for us to understand how others see computers. It's better to be patient before jumping to conclusions, this goes for first impressions or what we think it's gonna happen.

rxyz 3y ago
Most programmers are anything but outsiders. It's not a niche profession anymore
- dartos 3y ago
  Being a programmer necessarily changes how you approach and interact with computers. After a while (and not a long one) you develop a serious usability bias since you can intuit what a program is doing and how best to interact with it. The longer you work in software, the harder it is to accurately imagine how a non programmer uses a computer. That’s why the classic “only users could cause this error” jokes exist.
  - sfn42 3y ago
    The way i see it, that's just a huge advantage. My partner works as a medical research assistant. They had filled data into a huge spreadsheet in a software I think was called IBM SSES or something along those lines. Basically an excel spreadsheet, with hundreds of columns and tens of thousands of rows. One of the analyses they wanted to run wasn't working correctly so she was tasked with filling in 0s in place of empty cells. She was expecting to spend 2-3 weeks doing this. She mentioned it to me, I've never seen this software before in my life but it took me 15 minutes to figure out how to do three weeks of manual work instantly. Just googled it and followed some instructions. Being able to understand software is a useful skill. We should find ways to bring the average person up to speed, help them understand what computers can do so they too can see a task like that and be like "there's no way the software doesn't have an easier way to do that" instead of wasting time doing pointless busywork.

al_borland 3y ago

This has been my reply to most people asking me if I’m going to buy a Vision Pro. It seems like after a week or two I’m going to want to do something, and a TV, laptop, or phone is good enough… I won’t want to go through the ceremony of putting on the headset and entering that environment to do some basic stuff, especially not if there is a remote chance I’ll be multitasking with stuff in the real world. That said, I tried one on at the Apple Store the other day and the immersive stuff was really cool and I’d like to see more of it. But I think it makes sense to wait for the amount of content to increase and the price to come down.

masto 3y ago
To be honest, I'm kind of at that point. At first I was using it every day because it was new and I was curious, then I was using it every day because I wanted to give it a good try, then I was still using it but increasingly thinking "can I find any way in which this is better than just using a computer/iPad?". As of this morning, I'm writing this comment on my laptop, because going into the other room and strapping on googles feels like a chore, not a desirable activity. I don't regret the purchase; I did not expect it to change my life, and I've actually had my skepticism about spatial computing turned around. I hope there is a future where we can do the same things in a less physically cumbersome way.

bsdpufferfish 3y ago

This comment does not address anything in the article or say anything of substance. Everything is more exciting when it’s novel. That’s part of the fun of consumer electronics, games, movies, etc.

easylogin 3y ago

I'd generally agree, but it definitely depends on how the device is being used. My VR headsets don't see much usage outside of simracing which I'd consider a hobby more than just gaming. So my point is that, "working" might present that same routine which demos/gaming/facehugger yt with low return on novelty.

dep_b 3y ago

FWIW I still use my blender almost every day. It's a great start of the day, so I can eat like a sinner the rest for the day. Didn't lose a gram of weight but I don't feel guilty about it anymore!