10 ms·
Fitness trackers find new symptom of depression: body temperature
- amelius 3y agoFeels like we're living in the dark ages of correlations. Given today's compute power and availability of medical data, why wasn't this already a well known fact?
- vanderZwan 3y agoDo you have the slightest idea how many variables to check for correlations there are in a biological system as complex as the human body? And how few of those variables can be reliably measured and analyzed at the same time in most of these studies?
- amelius 3y agoActually, a lot is being recorded ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiomics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiomics
- vanderZwan 3y agoYeah I know, I used to work for a single-cell molecular neurobiology group. But you're citing a development that mostly took of in the last decade, and your question was "why wasn't this already a well known fact?" That implies disdain that this wasn't discovered ages ago, to the point where it is widely a known truth among regular people. A fact discovered relatively recently as part of very exciting new things that are taking place in biology and medicine would not qualify for that.
- ben_w 3y agoIt's easy to find correlations, having enough evidence to rule out mere coincidence is harder. http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
- amelius 3y agoThat's why you need more than two handfuls of datapoints ...
- maxglute 3y agoMaybe AC ownership correlated with depression during summer. Being hot sucks.
- iamthirsty 3y agoThe article talks about self-thermoregulation — so I don't know if those would exactly be correlated.
- beAbU 3y agoMany parts of the world don't have AC, and many people in those parts are not depressed. Source: it's 22h00 here and its probably about 28C in my bedroom now. The walls are radiating heat into the room after baking in the sun the whole day. All my windows are open and ceiling fan is on. I'll be sleeping on top of a towel tonight as to not destroy my mattress. I'm definitely not depressed... I think.
- tanseydavid 3y ago<hot-or-not> That's HOT!
- Scoundreller 3y agoDry or humid heat?
- standardly 3y agoI have a hard time making sense of parts of this article. RE: Treatment: "“What is we can track the body temperature of people with depression to time heat-based treatments well?” "If thermoregulation is a symptom of depression, as the Oura Ring study suggests, temperature treatment could be an effective way to treat depression." Thermoregulation is a symptom of depression? How do they reach the conclusion that "temperature treatment" could treat depression, and why do they not define what "temperature treament" even is? As someone with MDD I seriously doubt making myself warm more often is going to affect my symptoms, but it's certainly an alluring concept as I do enjoy saunas.
- francisofascii 3y agoThis is just my hunch, but I think temperature treatment is the wrong conclusion to this finding. When someone is sick with a virus and has a fever, people suggest taking ibuprofen to lower the fever effectively masking the symptoms, but that does nothing to address the underlying cause. I think this finding can be helpful is trying to find other ways to reduce inflammation in the body (assuming inflammation is driving the temperature increase) Interventions like diet changes could lead to both less inflammation and less depression.
- gmuslera 3y agoIt looks like a medical anti pattern, deal with the symptom that the base disease will cure itself, somewhat, maybe magically. I know that forcing a happy face could lighten up a bit your mood, but this is going too far, and maybe is too simplistic in its view of depression.
- pedalpete 3y agoApparently this isn't new knowledge, a study from 2003. The study not only states that body temperature is higher, but also the mechanism by which this occurs which is related to 5-HTTLPR deletion. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12759553/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12759553/
- DiabloD3 3y agoI was going to say, I thought we've known this for at least two decades. Depression is considered an inflammation-associated disorder, and improper/constant activation of cross-reactive inflammation pathways eats into mitochondrial energy production (The Powerhouse Of the Cell(tm)), which means energy that would go keeping you warm isn't. The body, for some adaptive reason (and presumably a good one), doesn't turn up energy production to compensate.
- throwawaaarrgh 3y agoI don't know if this is a wide phenomenon, but when I get angry or frustrated, my body temp skyrockets. I have to take off clothes I get hot so fast. Happens mostly when I'm working from home and getting pissed off at the computer.
- iisan7 3y agowell, if some of the reasoning in this thread is correct, maybe you need to take off your clothes to prevent yourself getting angry!
- okr 3y agohey now
- themaninthedark 3y agoThen I should be great since I like to take off my clothes all the time!
- kaycebasques 3y agoFirst time hearing about Oura Ring. Looks cool! That price though... ouch.
- aitchnyu 3y agoMoore's law exists, but somehow I feel rings are Theranos Edison among chunky watches and heart straps.
- wiredfool 3y agoThey're pretty good, though battery life is an issue with some firmware revs. (n-2: bad, n-1: 100% better, current: iffy). So far my wife's ring has lasted well longer than my Apple Watch.
- qiine 3y agoapparently Samsung is preparing something https://www.tomsguide.com/news/samsung-galaxy-ring https://www.tomsguide.com/news/samsung-galaxy-ring
- FraterSKM 3y agoI feel like at some point we're gonna discover depression is basically some kind of inflammatory disease
- deminature 3y agoMy experience with covid is that severe post-disease inflammation can cause wild neurological symptoms including anxiety and depression. I had a 'mild' case and still suffered significant, long-lasting inflammation. I see very few people talking about this outside special-interest covid discussion boards. Surprisingly, my doctor was already aware of the destructive potential of inflammation for mental health.
- 7thaccount 3y agoSometime early during the pandemic I believe I got Covid as my breathing got really messed up in a way my medications couldn't help and I never have asthma issues during that time of the year (no typical symptoms though). I noticed not long after that occurrence that any caffeine consumption would give me massive anxiety attacks and a heart beat out of rhythm. I've never had issues with either before. Heart stress test found nothing. I stopped caffeine for over a year. Funny thing was I found out that this wasn't a super rare occurrence either. I met other people randomly (I didn't bring it up) that quit caffeine after Covid due to a sudden intolerance for it. Covid is absolutely wild.
- deminature 3y agoI've had the same thing with caffeine causing significant anxiety that didn't occur beforehand. One of my medications also stopped working for a month afterwards. I'm surprised there's not more concern in broader society about the multi-systemic health issues this infection can cause before barreling into shoving people into crowded public spaces again, where they can catch it repeatedly.
- agos 3y agoit appears that other infections can cause similar if not identical problem, it's just that with COVID a tenth of the planet or so caught it in the span of a few months and it's (slightly) clearer what the effects are. I feel we are shoving people into crowded public spaces because we currently have no practical alternative
- zxlu 3y agohttps://archive.is/aoIiM https://archive.is/aoIiM
- paulpauper 3y agoAbout one in five adults wore a fitness tracker, either as a band or smartwatch, in 2020, according to the Pew Research Center. I'm sure it's higher now and yet obesity rates keep going up. Shows how ineffective these solutions are. People are more active and tracking their calories yet weight gain is unstoppable.
- nsillik 3y agopepel
- DoreenMichele 3y agoFood is getting less nutritious.* I think this is a largely overlooked factor in the obesity epidemic. * https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/09/13/food-nutrients-carbon-dioxide-000511/ https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/09/13/food-nutrie...
- patmorgan23 3y agoIt's definitely a constellation of causes, the continued loss of third places, the continued growth of auto centric suburbs and office parks, etc
- DoreenMichele 3y agoI'm all for supporting more walkable, mixed-use neighborhoods. That's definitely an issue.
- naasking 3y agoI think it's mainly that food is just more abundant. It's literally everywhere now. You can't go out and do something without passing easy to acquire, relatively cheap and high calorie food to tempt you, or to satisfy every passing snacking impulse. That just wasn't the case for most of human history, even most of the 20the century.
- NoPicklez 3y agoThat's a very generalised take with a big assumption. I don't think wearing a smartwatch will immediately shed you weight. You actually need to actively put in the work both through exercise and a proper diet. A watch is just a tool that supports the rest of it. More people might be consuming diet beverages as well and yet weights might be going up, that may not necessarily be the failing of the diet beverage.
- DoreenMichele 3y agoIronically, heating people up actually can lead to rebound body temperature lowering that lasts longer than simply cooling people down directly, as through an ice bath Sounds to me like there is unrecognized infection causing a low-grade fever and heat treatments kill infection, allowing the fever to break.
- Mistletoe 3y agoInteresting, considering the following. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/01/human-body-temperature-has-decreased-in-united-states.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/01/human-body-te... > The researchers determined that the body temperature of men born in the early to mid-1990s is on average 1.06 F lower than that of men born in the early 1800s. Similarly, they determined that the body temperature of women born in the early to mid-1990s is on average 0.58 F lower than that of women born in the 1890s. These calculations correspond to a decrease in body temperature of 0.05 F every decade.
- naasking 3y agoPeople are now also taller, with more body mass but possibly less muscle mass, likely less fit, and have clothes of likely better quality. Unclear how these factors would affect final body temp overall.
- quickthrower2 3y agohttps://archive.is/aoIiM https://archive.is/aoIiM
- fpiacenza 3y agoBody temperature is regulated by norepinephrine.
- ex3ndr 3y agoI am wondering if you can just cool down your body to fix it. I had panic attacks in the past and now from time to time i am experience mild anxiety. Eventually i learned that hot shower or hot bed (i have 8sleep) actually increases anxiety, making my bed colder calms anxiety. This makes sense since anxiety and many other disorders are just overloading the body and cooling down stops the chemical processes that causes them.
- svrtknst 3y agoNot sure about "fix" but cooling the body via hot showers is a fairly common recommendation for anxiety relief, especially prior to sleep. Supposedly, if you cool the body down externally (cold shower, cold environment) it will try to increase body temp, but if you take a hot shower or sauna, the body will instead try to lower its temperature.
- lazyasciiart 3y agoDrinking hot tea will also help you stay cool externally, as people in some areas seem to have known for a long time https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/a-hot-drink-on-a-hot-day-can-cool-you-down-1338875/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/a-hot-drink-on...
- devilbunny 3y agoNote: applies in hot, dry climates where you’re wearing light clothing that lets the sweat evaporate. Don’t try it in New Orleans or Singapore.
- antoniojtorres 3y agoToday I learned about the diving reflex and why it’s helpful to dunk your face in cold water. It can help with anxiety according to my therapist.
- aszantu 3y agomaybe weird... I'm suffering from migraine sometimes, my face starts feeling cold, including teeth and hard palate. So I measured and it was 33 c°, told a few doctors and got no response, still looking for a cause/solution. I'm also a depression sufferer, and the days after seem to be more anxious. Tried to go to the sauna with the symtoms, but couldn't handle more than 20 minutes last time. Felt better right after, but got more cold afterwards. Could be perimenopausal (40, female). I've been tracking food for a while (elimination diet works for my depression), and the days leading up to the attack, I had some mixed foods, tsatziki and some curry sauce where the sauce tasted weird. AND I ate kinda low fat the last few days. Also no doctor could tell me how that is connected, they just try to put me on statins. Probably lean mass hyper responder, no proof though. Within the keto community low body temperature was mentioned a few times, some of them take crazy amounts of iodine. Not sure I want to do that. been collecting for a while https://github.com/cutestuff/FoodDepressionConundrum/blob/main/DeficienciesSideEffects.md https://github.com/cutestuff/FoodDepressionConundrum/blob/ma...
- jacquesm 3y agoIf 33C is your core temp that's way low. You should escalate that beyond just telling doctors, it may be a serious blood pressure issue (or your thermometer might be off!).
- aszantu 3y agoit's only the case when I have migraines, 33 is between the upper lip and gums, below the tongue it's higher more like 36. But thanks a lot, will go to the hospital next time I've got cold face+migraine!
- jacquesm 3y agoAh ok, I thought that was your core temp, that would be seriously worrisome if not already an acute crisis, I've never heard of it going that low. Surface temperature is next to impossible to measure accurately, it is super fluid so most likely that is an anomalous reading then. The only temperature of your body that really matters is core temp, skin temp is all over the place, from 33 on the low end to 37 on the high end depending on how much bloodflow you've got and what the ambient is (because you'll always measure partly your body, partly the air around it).
- hasty_pudding 3y agoProbably inflammation related.
- reify 3y agohttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-51567-w#Sec1 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-51567-w#Sec1 A massive document saying nothing of use. Amongst others; Oura Health Oy (#134650) also provided funding for this work. For these daily self-reported temperature assessments, participants used their own thermometers (which were not provided by the study, and which may have been of any brand), and we did not ask participants to report the type of thermometer used or the method of body temperature assessment. Not good research criteria! The PROMIS T-scores: They appear to have an 8 question questionaire for every illness on the planet. https://www.healthmeasures.net/score-and-interpret/interpret-scores/promis/promis-score-cut-points https://www.healthmeasures.net/score-and-interpret/interpret... Can anyone really do a diagnostic test with just 8 questions and conclude that someone has a mental illness. Absolutely not! Yet they have us believe that you can. Psychiatrists have been using short questionaires for years to assess anxiety and depression and most forms of mental illness. None of them work or are accurate.
- mcmcmc 3y agoNit: mental health surveys/assessments are a screening tool, not intended to be used on their own for a diagnosis. They work as they are intended to, identifying individuals who are at risk or displaying common symptoms so that mental health professionals can then proceed with further testing and discussion to make a diagnosis. They’re not always used correctly, but they are useful.
- ThinkBeat 3y agoImagine standing at top of edge cliff with your feed halfway into the air, teetering, swaying a little. For a lot of people that would increase their body temprature, and casue anxiety and stress. Yes they would have elevated body temperature, but that does not indicate that it is the symptom to focus upon. With a severe depression a person will go through periods of extreme anxiety, guilt, for some suicidal thoughts, and in general serious continuous stress. Parts of the brain get rewired, with long term depression. They will experience periods of elevated body temperature, heck high enough to be categorized as a fever in some cases, but lowering the body temperature, for instance, with a cool bath or cool wrappings, is not going to change or alleviate depression.
- hdanirwin 3y agoMy wife's therapist recently instructed her to start plunging her face in ice when she gets overwhelmed with anxiety (mostly because she was refusing to consider meds) The ice plunge is generally understood to help by stimulating the vagus nerve and parasympathetic nervous system. But I wonder if it is related to this too.
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