6 ms·

Dear Google, please fix your names and versioning. Gemini Pro, Gemini Ultra... but was 1.0? now upgraded but again Gemini Pro? jumping from 1.0 to 1.5? wait

by code51 3y ago

Dear Google, please fix your names and versioning. Gemini Pro, Gemini Ultra... but was 1.0? now upgraded but again Gemini Pro? jumping from 1.0 to 1.5? wait but not Gemini Pro 1.5... Gemini "1.5" Pro What actually happened between 1.0 and 1.5?

lairv 3y ago
This naming is terrible, if I understand correctly this is the release of Gemini 1.5 Pro, but not Gemini 1.5 Ultra right ?
- goalonetwo 3y ago
  Looks like the former PM of chat at google found a new job.
- cchance 3y ago
  How is that hard to understand? Yes its gemini 1.5 pro, they haven't released ultra or nano, like this isn't rocket science they didnt introduce Gemini 1.5 ProLight or something, lol its the Pro size model's 1.5 version.
  - lairv 3y ago
    The name of the blog post is "Our next-generation model: Gemini 1.5", how am I supposed to infer from this that it is only the 1.5 pro and not ultra ?
nkozyra 3y ago
Their inability to name things sensibly has been called out for years and it doesn't look like they care? I'm not sure what the deal is, it has to be a marketing hinderance as every major tech company is trying to claw their way up the AI service mountain. Seems like the first step would be cogent naming.
- i_love_cookies 3y ago
  [dead]
- data-ottawa 3y ago
  It would have been better as Gemini Lite, Gemini, Gemini Pro, and then v1, v1.5 for model bumps. Ultra vs pro vs nano with Ultra unlocked by buying Gemini Advanced is confusing. I'm also not sure why they make base Gemini available after you have Advanced, because presumably there's no reason to use a worse model.
jjbinx007 3y ago
They can't decide on a single name for a chat application so I think expecting them to come up with a sensible naming suggestion is optimistic at best.
aqme28 3y ago
Furthermore, is a minor version upgrade two months later really "next generation"?
- philote 3y ago
  Well if it's from 1 to 1.5 then it's really 5 minor version upgrades at once. And since 1.5 is halfway to 2 and you round up, it's next generation!
- AndroTux 3y ago
  Maybe it's not a "next generation" model, but rather their next model for text generation ;)
  - cchance 3y ago
    I mean i don't see any other models watching and answering questions about a 44 minute video lol
Alifatisk 3y ago
I understod the transition as following. Google Bard to Google Gemini is what they call Gemini 1.0. Gemini consists of Gemini Nano, Gemini Pro, & Gemini Ultra. Gemini Nano is for embedded and portable devices I guess? The free version of Gemini (gemini.google.com) is Gemini Pro. The paid version, called Gemini Advanced is using Gemini Ultra. What we're reading now is about Gemini Pro version 1.0 switching to version 1.5 as of today.
- meowface 3y ago
  That just made my head spin even more. (Like, I get it, but it's just a very tortuous naming system.) The free version is called Pro, Gemini Advanced is actually Gemini Ultra, the less powerful version upgraded to the more powerful model but the more powerful version is on the less powerful model. People make fun of OpenAI for not using product names and just calling it "GPT" but at least it's straightforward: 2, 3, 3.5, 4. (On the API side it's a little more complicated since there's "turbo" and "instruct" but that isn't exposed to users, and turbo is basically the default.)
  - kweingar 3y ago
    But you don't pay for GPT-4, you pay for a product called ChatGPT Plus, which allows you to write 40 messages to GPT-4 within a three-hour time window, after which you need to switch to 3.5 in the menu.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- code51 3y ago
  but if Vertex AI is using Gemini Ultra, then why makersuite (aisuite now? hmmm) showing only "Gemini 1.0 Pro 001" (001: a version inside a version) and why have makersuite/aisuite in the first place, if Vertex AI is the center for all things AI? and why aitestkitchen? I'm seeing only Gemini 1.0 Pro on Vertex AI. So even if I enabled Google Gemini Advanced (Ultra?), enabled Vertex AI API access, I have to first be blessed by Google to access advanced APIs. It seems paying for their service doesn't mean anything to Google at this point. As a developer, you have to jump through hoops first.
sho_hn 3y ago
It's not that difficult. Their LLM brand is now Gemini. Gemini comes in three different sizes, Nano/Pro/Ultra. They recently released 1.0 versions of each, most recently (a few months after Nano and Pro) Ultra. Today they are introducing version 1.5, starting with the Pro size. They say 1.5 Pro offers comparable performance to 1.0 Ultra, along with new abilities (token window size). (I agree Small/Medium/Large would be better.)
- Keyframe 3y ago
  What's Advanced then, chat? Also, by that, 1.5 Ultra is then still to come and it'll show even bigger guns.
  - sho_hn 3y ago
    Yes, my understanding is also there will be a 1.5 Ultra. It's however nowhere explicitly said that I could find. The Technical Report PDF also avoids even hinting at it. Advanced is a price/service tier for the end-user frontend. At the moment it gets you 1.0 Ultra access vs. 1.0 Pro for the free version. Similar to how ChatGPT Plus gives you 4 instead of 3.5. I agree this part is messy. Does everyone who had Pro already get 1.5 Pro? If 1.5 Pro is better than 1.0 Ultra, why pay for Advanced? Is 1.5 Pro behind the Advanced paywall? etc.
    - Keyframe 3y ago
      Ok, so from what I've gathered then from all of the comments so far, primary confusion is that both Chat service and llm models are named the same. There are three models: nano/pro/ultra and all are at v1.0 There are two tiers of chat service: basic and pro There is AIStudio from google through which you can interact with / use directly gemini llms. Chat service Gemini basic (free) uses Gemini Pro 1.0 llm. Chat service Gemini advanced uses Gemini Ultra 1.0 llm. What was shown is ~~Ultra~~ Pro 1.5 LLM which is / will be available to select few for preview to be used via AIStudio. That leaves a question, what's nano for, and is it only used via AIStudio/API? Jesus, Google..
      - 3y ago
gmuslera 3y ago
Maybe they should take a hint on Windows versions name scheme and call the next version Gemini Meh.
- apapapa 3y ago
  Are you talking about Xbox one?
  - mring33621 3y ago
    No. Gemini Purple Plus Platinum Advanced Home Version 11.P17
  - gmuslera 3y ago
    You didn't know about Windows Meh? Not sure about the spelling.
lordswork 3y ago
See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39385230 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39385230
kccqzy 3y ago
Dear OpenAI please fix your names and versioning. Why do you have GPT-3 and GPT-3.5? What happened between 3 and 3.5? And why isn't GPT-3 a single model? Why are there variations like GPT-3-6.7B and GPT-3-175b? And why is there now a turbo version? How does turbo compared to 4? And what's the relationship between the end-user product ChatGPT and a specific GPT model? You see this problem isn't unique to Google.
cchance 3y ago
This just means we'll be getting a Nano 1.5 and Ultra 1.5 and if Pro 1.5 is this good holy shit what will Ultra be... Nano/Pro/Ultra are the model sizes, 1.0 or 1.5 is the version

by code51 3y ago

lairv 3y ago

This naming is terrible, if I understand correctly this is the release of Gemini 1.5 Pro, but not Gemini 1.5 Ultra right ?

goalonetwo 3y ago
Looks like the former PM of chat at google found a new job.
cchance 3y ago
How is that hard to understand? Yes its gemini 1.5 pro, they haven't released ultra or nano, like this isn't rocket science they didnt introduce Gemini 1.5 ProLight or something, lol its the Pro size model's 1.5 version.
- lairv 3y ago
  The name of the blog post is "Our next-generation model: Gemini 1.5", how am I supposed to infer from this that it is only the 1.5 pro and not ultra ?

nkozyra 3y ago

Their inability to name things sensibly has been called out for years and it doesn't look like they care? I'm not sure what the deal is, it has to be a marketing hinderance as every major tech company is trying to claw their way up the AI service mountain. Seems like the first step would be cogent naming.

i_love_cookies 3y ago
[dead]
data-ottawa 3y ago
It would have been better as Gemini Lite, Gemini, Gemini Pro, and then v1, v1.5 for model bumps. Ultra vs pro vs nano with Ultra unlocked by buying Gemini Advanced is confusing. I'm also not sure why they make base Gemini available after you have Advanced, because presumably there's no reason to use a worse model.

jjbinx007 3y ago

They can't decide on a single name for a chat application so I think expecting them to come up with a sensible naming suggestion is optimistic at best.

aqme28 3y ago

Furthermore, is a minor version upgrade two months later really "next generation"?

philote 3y ago
Well if it's from 1 to 1.5 then it's really 5 minor version upgrades at once. And since 1.5 is halfway to 2 and you round up, it's next generation!
AndroTux 3y ago
Maybe it's not a "next generation" model, but rather their next model for text generation ;)
- cchance 3y ago
  I mean i don't see any other models watching and answering questions about a 44 minute video lol

Alifatisk 3y ago

I understod the transition as following. Google Bard to Google Gemini is what they call Gemini 1.0. Gemini consists of Gemini Nano, Gemini Pro, & Gemini Ultra. Gemini Nano is for embedded and portable devices I guess? The free version of Gemini (gemini.google.com) is Gemini Pro. The paid version, called Gemini Advanced is using Gemini Ultra. What we're reading now is about Gemini Pro version 1.0 switching to version 1.5 as of today.

meowface 3y ago
That just made my head spin even more. (Like, I get it, but it's just a very tortuous naming system.) The free version is called Pro, Gemini Advanced is actually Gemini Ultra, the less powerful version upgraded to the more powerful model but the more powerful version is on the less powerful model. People make fun of OpenAI for not using product names and just calling it "GPT" but at least it's straightforward: 2, 3, 3.5, 4. (On the API side it's a little more complicated since there's "turbo" and "instruct" but that isn't exposed to users, and turbo is basically the default.)
- kweingar 3y ago
  But you don't pay for GPT-4, you pay for a product called ChatGPT Plus, which allows you to write 40 messages to GPT-4 within a three-hour time window, after which you need to switch to 3.5 in the menu.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
code51 3y ago
but if Vertex AI is using Gemini Ultra, then why makersuite (aisuite now? hmmm) showing only "Gemini 1.0 Pro 001" (001: a version inside a version) and why have makersuite/aisuite in the first place, if Vertex AI is the center for all things AI? and why aitestkitchen? I'm seeing only Gemini 1.0 Pro on Vertex AI. So even if I enabled Google Gemini Advanced (Ultra?), enabled Vertex AI API access, I have to first be blessed by Google to access advanced APIs. It seems paying for their service doesn't mean anything to Google at this point. As a developer, you have to jump through hoops first.

sho_hn 3y ago

It's not that difficult. Their LLM brand is now Gemini. Gemini comes in three different sizes, Nano/Pro/Ultra. They recently released 1.0 versions of each, most recently (a few months after Nano and Pro) Ultra. Today they are introducing version 1.5, starting with the Pro size. They say 1.5 Pro offers comparable performance to 1.0 Ultra, along with new abilities (token window size). (I agree Small/Medium/Large would be better.)

Keyframe 3y ago
What's Advanced then, chat? Also, by that, 1.5 Ultra is then still to come and it'll show even bigger guns.
- sho_hn 3y ago
  Yes, my understanding is also there will be a 1.5 Ultra. It's however nowhere explicitly said that I could find. The Technical Report PDF also avoids even hinting at it. Advanced is a price/service tier for the end-user frontend. At the moment it gets you 1.0 Ultra access vs. 1.0 Pro for the free version. Similar to how ChatGPT Plus gives you 4 instead of 3.5. I agree this part is messy. Does everyone who had Pro already get 1.5 Pro? If 1.5 Pro is better than 1.0 Ultra, why pay for Advanced? Is 1.5 Pro behind the Advanced paywall? etc.
  - Keyframe 3y ago
    Ok, so from what I've gathered then from all of the comments so far, primary confusion is that both Chat service and llm models are named the same. There are three models: nano/pro/ultra and all are at v1.0 There are two tiers of chat service: basic and pro There is AIStudio from google through which you can interact with / use directly gemini llms. Chat service Gemini basic (free) uses Gemini Pro 1.0 llm. Chat service Gemini advanced uses Gemini Ultra 1.0 llm. What was shown is ~~Ultra~~ Pro 1.5 LLM which is / will be available to select few for preview to be used via AIStudio. That leaves a question, what's nano for, and is it only used via AIStudio/API? Jesus, Google..
    - 3y ago

gmuslera 3y ago

Maybe they should take a hint on Windows versions name scheme and call the next version Gemini Meh.

apapapa 3y ago
Are you talking about Xbox one?
- mring33621 3y ago
  No. Gemini Purple Plus Platinum Advanced Home Version 11.P17
- gmuslera 3y ago
  You didn't know about Windows Meh? Not sure about the spelling.

lordswork 3y ago

See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39385230 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39385230

kccqzy 3y ago

Dear OpenAI please fix your names and versioning. Why do you have GPT-3 and GPT-3.5? What happened between 3 and 3.5? And why isn't GPT-3 a single model? Why are there variations like GPT-3-6.7B and GPT-3-175b? And why is there now a turbo version? How does turbo compared to 4? And what's the relationship between the end-user product ChatGPT and a specific GPT model? You see this problem isn't unique to Google.

cchance 3y ago

This just means we'll be getting a Nano 1.5 and Ultra 1.5 and if Pro 1.5 is this good holy shit what will Ultra be... Nano/Pro/Ultra are the model sizes, 1.0 or 1.5 is the version