14 ms·

Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

385 points by wahnfrieden 3y ago

apapapa 3y ago
Bet attorneys and Gov did.
wahnfrieden 3y ago
> A bartender in Orlando, Florida who requested to remain anonymous because they still work in the industry, said they started a new bartending job in May and pushed back when they found out their hourly wage was just a daily rate of $30, despite working eight-hour shifts. > “I reminded my manager that paying less than minimum wage was illegal, and added a link to a law firm’s page about it. He fired me,” the worker said. “Getting fired for not wanting to be paid below the already insanely low minimum wage after working in the industry for over 20 years was pretty rough.” > The worker attempted to file a complaint with the US Department of Labor and the Florida attorney general’s office but was told they only prioritize higher wage violations and never heard back after being told someone would follow up.
- Clubber 3y ago
  Florida AG has unlimited funds for CYA but not to help the people who most need it. Figures.
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - alkonaut 3y ago
    Most of the factors are beyond your control when it comes to how busy a place is. Sure a smile helps fill a restaurant, but mostly - it's other people's responsibility. Anyone employed full time in an empty restaurant for a full month should both make a living wage AND have 40h work. If there isn't enough work to fill the shifts, or enough guests to make tips - that's not the service staff's problem, it's the owner.
    - Workaccount2 3y ago
      If you are working at a place that doesn't have volume for a month...thats on you. Restaurants are a dime a dozen and slow ones die quick. Getting a job at one is simply filling out an application and talking to the manager. It's very easy. Sure, if you live in rural area maybe it can be tough, but if you are in the 80% who live in metro areas, the bar is very low to find a place(s) where you can do well.
      - alkonaut 3y ago
        I guess waiting staff was always seen as a "gig economy" in the US. (Where I live, it's a salaried job, 3-6 months of notice from the employer and so on.)
      - yareal 3y ago
        If you work, you deserve a living wage. Tipped labor sucks for a host of reasons, but even if you pick a "bad" restaurant you should still get enough money from your work to live.
  - fzeroracer 3y ago
    What does any of what you just said have to do with their employer violating Florida labor laws? They have specific wages for both tipped and non tipped employees. The wage as mentioned above was well below the tipped wage line as defined by Florida law.
elzbardico 3y ago
The standard civil courts pipeline sucks as a mechanism for labor rights protection. You'll need expedited courts and a speedier process to dissuade this kind of thing. It needs to be as straightforward as child support law.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  There's no voting solution to gaining that unfortunately
  - danaris 3y ago
    Well, not today. But if this year you vote for candidates who are more favorable to labor than the other candidates, and then you continue making that (part of) your strategy over the course of several elections, you can start to shift things. Especially if you can get other people on board with the movement. It's not like the current situation came about by chance or some cosmic inevitability: the right wing in America has been consistently showing up and voting in larger numbers for decades to get where we are.
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      You would have happily voted for Hindenburg? Labor wins that we have today have come from coordinated labor movements across partisan lines, not from voting and waiting on service from politicians
      - danaris 3y ago
        I'm afraid I don't know offhand who Hindenburg is, nor even what country he was running in, but: In the US, due to the winner-take-all, first-past-the-post voting system, if Hindenburg was running against a candidate in the general election who was even one step worse than he was, then yes, I would have voted for him. Even if his platform included kicking puppies and stealing candy from babies. (Because, remember, in this hypothetical, his opponent's platform includes, say, setting fire to puppies and kicking babies.) Any other choice, under the system we have here, is mathematically certain to increase the chance of the candidate I like least winning. Voting is not saying "I like this person and agree with everything they say." It is saying "I think that, of the two choices on offer, this person is the most likely to move the county/state/country toward the situation I prefer." It's not about whether the vote makes me happy. It's about whether it makes the world a marginally better place than the realistic alternatives.
AniseAbyss 3y ago
[dead]
gadders 3y ago
From the article: >> There are numerous forms of wage theft, from employers not compensating workers for time worked, violating minimum wage and overtime laws, misclassifying employees as independent contractors, not providing legally required meal breaks, confiscating worker tips, or illegally taking deductions from worker wages. Yeah, one of those isn't like the others. I know unions and the tax people hate it, but some people are perfectly happy to be independent contractors. Having said all that, for all the others make the company directors personally liable.
- bjornevik 3y ago
  > misclassifying
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Another one is misclassifying non exempt employees as exempt, and not paying them for more than 40 hours per week. Big in immigrant circles where one or two people will operate a 24/7 or near 24/7 business and be called “managers” when they have no management autonomy.
- InitialLastName 3y ago
  > some people are perfectly happy to be independent contractors. Literally nobody is denying that. The issue is that many companies are also happy to use the classification to their advantage when the roles don't meet the legal standard their society has put forth as the requirement for someone to be an independent contractor (largely e.g. genuine independence in their work).
  - screenothethird 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - gadders 3y ago
      >>being an idiot Have you been talking to my wife?
spamizbad 3y ago
This phenomena is pretty widespread in the service industry and I would venture to say that a significant minority of businesses participate in some version of wage theft. For example, one of my jobs right out of high school was waiting tables at a local restaurant. If you were opening, the expectation from owners and management was you'd get in early to help open but would wait 15 minutes before service started before clocking in. So on those days you'd do 30-45 minutes of fully unpaid labor. There was well understood that if you complained about this not only would they fire you but they'd call up all their industry buddies and you'd basically be on every other restaurants no-hire list. At the time I was pretty naive and didn't think much of it, just figured that's the way the world worked. Doing the math, because I always made more than the tipped minimum wage, I think it only ended up costing me $7/week in wages - but if I stole $7 out of the till each week for a year in a half I'd be charged with a felony.
- antisthenes 3y ago
  Amazing pettiness from the owners for what is essentially $10 worth of labor (or less)
  - spacecadet 3y ago
    This sums up much of american rural small business... I started working at 12 and had many random jobs between 12-18 that were run by awful people. Our family has a small farm, my parents didn't think we did enough of that and put me in a white van full of migrant workers at 12 years old (hey the 80s!) to go pick produce in a field all day... It was grueling work but I got a first hand account of migrant farm workers and the way they are treated.
    - vdaea 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
        This is a really shitty take. I don't think you're a decent person if that's how you truly feel.
devmor 3y ago
This topic always reminds me of one of my first jobs as a young adult. It was a call center, for political polling. The facility was foul, we had rats running around, frequent minor electrocutions from improperly maintained power and of course, all sorts of backhanded tactics to avoid paying employees what they were owed. At some point, someone had enough and reported something to OSHA - I’m not sure what, but the day the inspector showed up, our supervisors came around the office telling us all that we had better lie to the inspector because if we tell the truth, they’ll shut us down for weeks and no one will be able to pay their rent. I wonder how many other people struggle with that issue daily. The inability to try to make their employer do the bare minimum out of fear of losing what they do have.
dbingham 3y ago
One of the clearest illustrations of the deeply injust structural power imbalance at the heart of our economic system is wage theft. If your employer withholds $20 from your paycheck it's a civil violation of contract law. You have to go through an extremely onerous and convoluted process that very likely won't go anywhere. If, in response, you decide to pay yourself by taking $20 from the till, that's criminal theft. You will be arrested by the police, sent to jail, and charged in the criminal justice system.
- iforgotpassword 3y ago
  That's because in one case you're stealing from an individual, and in the other from a business. The former group is usually not well organized, uneducated wrt the according laws, and too scared to go against the guy paying them. Their discontent with the establishment is usually unleashed in the most nonsensical ways, like we saw during covid. Anti-maskers/-vaxxers had a disproportionate amount of people from these kind of low-skilled exploited jobs.
- geodel 3y ago
  Well a simple reason could be probability of person take money and disappearing vs institution/business withhold person's money and disappearing. To be clear I am not defending it. If anything I was on receiving end of this behavior from a douchebag employer.
- MOARDONGZPLZ 3y ago
  Not quite true, DOL will go to bat for you and fine the employer and get you paid. Violations of labor law are not simply small claims civil matters. Some employers get large fines.
  - dbingham 3y ago
    The whole article is about how DOL mostly doesn't go to bat for people. Of $50 bil in wage theft, DOL recovered ~$3 bil.
    - 3y ago
throwaway_wt 3y ago
At a previous employer, the employee handbook defined “wage theft” as failure to work the required number of hours as agreed defined in the employee’s contract. I distinctly remember that the handbook used the term “wage theft” and not “time card theft” or “fraud”.
- draw_down 3y ago
  [dead]
- charles_f 3y ago
  Yeah, I've seen something similar but they were calling it "time theft". Funny enough this company had a reputation for stealing time, so they'd know
draw_down 3y ago
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mrangle 3y ago
Slaving: Not paying for work. Internships: some may be legit, most are slave labor schemes with many being deeply institutionalized in systems such as healthcare and education. Lower than minimum wage with an expectation that tips will make up the difference (just be done with tipping, pay at least minimum wage, and raise food prices). Mistreatment
- pitaj 3y ago
  That is not the definition of slavery. Slavery is being forced to work.
  - vaidhy 3y ago
    I would amend that slavery is being forced to work for a single person/corporation with a massive penalty for trying to change it.
    - mrangle 3y ago
      It deserves to be amended to a far greater degree than that, but also the above statement isn't relevant when there is only one "employer" available. Which has often been the case, historically, and maybe more so in the future.
  - mrangle 3y ago
    Logically and morally speaking, if not semantically speaking given a logically and morally inadequate definition for a highly political word, that's completely false. Virtually everyone is forced to work, or face death. Being forced to work is the de facto human experience. Effectively, there isn't a choice to work or not. Presenting work as a choice is closely analagous to presenting eating as a choice Pay, or relative lack thereof, is what defines degree of slavery (complete or partial). The only real arguments being a.) if one is paid what the work is worth and b.) how much of that pay is retaken in the form of taxes (direct or indirect like when company towns, or estates, recoup most of the pay in the form of costs to the laborer). Therefore, we will add an additional form of enslavement process: purposefully (often illegally) diulting the value of labor so that it is cheaper. If a serf is "paid" but the boss and landlord recoups nearly all of that pay in rent and taxes, is the serf a slave? Few moral and logical people would say no. Slaver hand-waving deserves to be called out.
darth_avocado 3y ago
People thinking wage theft only affects lower wage workers, let me tell you how tech companies commit wage theft: 1. Having annual components to wages (RSUs, bonuses), making you work all year and firing you just before they have to pay you. 2. Having no overtime for salaried employees 3. Having employees work extra responsibilities that are not part of the job description by promising promotions and then not giving it to them
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  These are legalized forms of wage theft, the article is about the illegal forms. But yes the legal ones are just as unpleasant
  - jmclnx 3y ago
    Maybe, but I know of a case where a contractor for a fortune 500 company working in IT had I think some of his salary stolen (in Texas). The company released the contract and he was put on the bench working for the contracting firm on their projects. They would pay him once per month. They fired him after a few months, not pay him is back pay. He filed a claim with Texas, nothing was done. When he told me (a year or 2 later) I said he should file with the Federal Gov, but he did not want to. So it can happen in office work too.
- sneak 3y ago
  Any promises not made in writing and signed by both parties aren’t promises. None of these are theft, just poor business skills on the part of the employees. Get it in writing so you can sue later, or don’t ever count on it. It’s basic business skills.
  - darth_avocado 3y ago
    > It’s basic business skills Job offers are often take it or leave it, because of the inherent power dynamics in the industry. These “basic business skills” will essentially leave you out of a job.
danielovichdk 3y ago
Thank tour union if you have one.
DrNosferatu 3y ago
Not only in the US, I would say - in general - wage-theft is indeed the actual business model of most outsourcing/"consulting" businesses. Seek a rent, sweat the asset: more and more business-as-usual today.
tretwertAC 3y ago
So, you're telling me yet another intervention, this time minimum wage fiat, doesn't work? Who could have thought?
- metabagel 3y ago
  There’s the law, and then there is enforcement of the law.
- cool_dude85 3y ago
  Are you a libertarian? Much wage theft is not paying for time worked - a violation of one of the sacred Contracts you little rascals love so much.
- charles_f 3y ago
  I don't know how you make the jump from human exploitation to "there's too much interventions". Libertarians and ultra capitalists see the building on fire and complain that we have too many firefighters. Let this building auto-regulate! To some degree it's probably the same mechanisms of self-deception that conspiracy theorists use to make themselves feel good and superior for having seen the light. There is no magic effect of the capitalism system. It eats workers and shits billionaires. It won't self correct. And arguably yes, all the regulations are just patches to the system, but short of a revolution and changing the system itself, that's the best there is for now.
kingkawn 3y ago
Unions Unions Unions
- timbit42 3y ago
  Even better: Worker Cooperatives.
  - kingkawn 3y ago
    I agree that something with a more diffused power-structure to the worker population is better.
- InCityDreams 3y ago
  Thanks to whom I enjoy two days off a week and, the safety dude immediately corrected something I'd pointed out as dangerous 5 years ago.
  - kingkawn 3y ago
    So join one and work to make it better.
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
(2023)
FpUser 3y ago
When it is actual theft why the owners/authors of said theft are not charged criminally? Why laws are asymmetric? When Hertz complains about car theft while there is none the renters are getting charged.
- vundercind 3y ago
  The answer is in the name of our economic system: Capital -ism. We basically put a big flashing sign right out front saying whose interests are the top priority.
  - Philorandroid 3y ago
    That's such a yellow-press non-answer. Annoyed interpretations of the name of something doesn't offer any insight into, or affect the reality of, the thing.
    - vundercind 3y ago
      I think it’s interesting that the labeling and the observed behavior of the system really do match.
      - Philorandroid 3y ago
        Again, you've made no claims, only voiced vague notions of your distaste
        vundercind 3y ago
        I claim that the name “capitalism” states whose interests are favored in our system. That’s a claim, and it’s not vague. Also I didn’t voice distaste.
        Philorandroid 3y ago
        It's hard to interpret "We basically put a big flashing sign right out front saying whose interests are the top priority" as anything but distaste, just as it's hard to parse "the name “capitalism” states whose interests are favored in our system" as anything but a favorable verisimilitude. Whose capital? Construction contractors? Service industry bosses? How exactly are they favored? Clearly wage theft is a well-understood phenomenon, so wouldn't it be a greater indictment of the legal system backing the law than the system that rests on top of it? How is any of this unique to a capitalist system and prevented in, say, command economies?
andsoitis 3y ago
> Eventually Martinez and several of his co-workers left after not getting paid for four weeks of work. If my employer fails to make even a single paycheck I would immediately be looking for another job because the chances are that it isn't that they're looking for free labor, but rather that they have cashflow problems. I am not interested to depend on a sinking ship for my income.
- jt2190 3y ago
  When the cash flow of an income-generating investment changes, a disciplined investor will rebalance to reduce the risk to their portfolio to the desired level. For many people their job is their major investment.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  Even above and beyond that. Worked for a company where the owner had admirably bootstrapped himself from working in a copier room at a law firm to owning a large copy/print/scan business that handled law firms in two cities and was a millionaire mid-late 20s. Would give me my check (after repeatedly asking, though never "late"), and usually say something like "this will cash today, but if you can wait til Monday or Tuesday, I'd prefer that". Hell no. I went downstairs within minutes every time and put that straight in the bank, and I did it over the teller (we banked with the same bank, so it was processed immediately).
mihaaly 3y ago
I believe it is a difficult to avoid byproduct of a competitive society (so basicly all). Contractors/suppliers compete with lower price that need to be balanced some way, employees compete with their willingness to work cheaper or more to have any kind of income at all sometimes. Some do it for greed only, employee and employer alike. I know someone, well paid construction engineer, who was willing to get into a shady situation so both his employee and himself can save on taxes, sharing financial gain of pretending non-employment relationship. This involved payment in bulk for months of work which at a financial downturn ended up in not getting paid - along multitude of exuses and promises - loosing almost 2 years of work worth of money for the engineer and the need to find someone else to work for in a desperate time risking the livelyhood of his family. Meanwhile his previous 'partner' in crime of course fluorished instead of sharing the loss too after the benefits. The engineer had no means to do anything being an accomplice for long, both dependent on the partner's payment but without any small means to put pressure on them. Exposed completely. It is too easy to be smartass about someone else's life and situation but since individual employees are always more fragile than organizations the best to avoid extreme competition advantages like above and have reserves for situations when an organization stops paying - e.g. being on the brink of collapse - so one can have better position of pressuring by not working until payment arrives in parallel of looking for other possibilities in case the likely eventuality of loosing job comes. Of course this is what is almost impossible to achive for most, especially for the most vulnerable: there will always someone to take the place of 'troublesome' employees, sometimes for less or offering more. As a product of desperation (in lack of reserves and possibilities but the need of buying food for the family). Shady figures exploit this. Unity against exploitation would help but we rather compete to raise above others.
btbuildem 3y ago
I wonder if the workers still owe taxes on the unpaid wages. I bet the gov't plays it that way, leaving the burden on the victims of the crime.
iancmceachern 3y ago
This happened to me, from a big "trusted" company.
rebuilder 3y ago
So what you do is you have a system where employees can claim unpaid wages from a government agency who pays them and then goes after the company that didn’t pay to recover the money.
Ccecil 3y ago
I know this is not the same thing but there is another form of what I consider wage theft that is totally legal in my state. That is the ability of an employer to pay almost half of minimum wage based on the fact that the employee gets tips. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped In my state...Idaho...employees can be paid as low as $3.35 (if I am reading that correctly). I know many people local who worked under this law for many years. The town I am in it costs approx 2x the average "renters salary" to afford to live. We currently have constant "now hiring" signs on almost every building. One of the largest employers in the area uses this law to pay their people peanuts. The only ones who can afford to stay in this town are the ones who already had houses before the "doubling" that happened over the last 5 years...and often they are on edge too. But you know..."Go ruthless capitalism".
stcredzero 3y ago
This has happened to me! In a programming job, no less! Is this something which could be addressed through the use of a specialized AI assistant? The biggest barrier to uncompensated workers is the cost of litigation. If the worker could represent themselves effectively, then this would stop.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  >Is this something which could be addressed through the use of a specialized AI assistant? JFC tech workers sometimes. Just unionize man, that's like the whole point of unions. An "AI assistant" that was effective would be telling you the same thing. You can't convince your boss that paying you what you are owed is the correct choice, you don't have any power in the relationship. Whether they are right or not, they BELIEVE you are eminently replaceable.
  - stcredzero 3y ago
    JFC tech workers sometimes. Just unionize man Basically, people don't want to do the lawsuit, because they don't know how and to pay for the expertise, it would cost more than the paycheck. The most straightforward way to fix it, is to make the expertise low or zero cost. An "AI assistant" that was effective would be telling you the same thing. No, it would tell me how to conduct the lawsuit. Below is what ChatGPT-4 just told me. Had I known back then, I would have just done this. (And I note that the lawyer who told me it would cost me more than I would get back didn't tell me a lot of this!) User I have been shorted $4000 on my last paycheck when I was let go by a software company in Columbia, South Carolina. What is the jurisprudence on being shorted pay, what do I have to prove, and how do I go about bringing the lawsuit. ChatGPT In a situation where you've been shorted on your final paycheck, the specific steps you can take and the jurisprudence around it largely depend on both federal and state laws. Here's a general overview of what you need to know and potential steps you could take, specifically tailored to Columbia, South Carolina: Jurisprudence on Being Shorted Pay Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA): At the federal level, the FLSA requires that employees are paid for all hours worked. If an employer fails to pay you what you're owed, you may have a claim under the FLSA. State Laws: South Carolina has its own labor laws that complement federal laws. While South Carolina does not have specific laws governing the timing of final paychecks for terminated employees, employers are generally expected to adhere to the agreed-upon terms of pay. If no specific terms are set, then they must follow the usual pay schedule. What You Have to Prove To bring a successful claim for unpaid wages, you typically need to prove: The Amount Owed: Documentation or evidence of the agreed-upon wages and the shortfall in your final paycheck. Hours Worked: Evidence of the hours you worked for which you have not been paid. This could include time sheets, emails, or other records. Attempts to Resolve: It's often beneficial to show that you've made reasonable attempts to resolve the issue with your employer before resorting to legal action. Steps to Take Review Employment Agreement: Check your employment contract or any official documentation regarding pay rates, schedules, and termination policies. Gather Documentation: Compile all relevant documents, including pay stubs, employment contracts, correspondence with the employer about your pay, and any records of hours worked. Attempt to Resolve Directly: It's often recommended to attempt to resolve the issue with your employer directly. Sometimes, pay discrepancies are due to clerical errors and can be corrected without legal action. File a Wage Claim: If direct resolution isn't possible, you can file a wage claim with the South Carolina Department of Labor, Licensing and Regulation (SCLLR). While SCLLR does not handle wage disputes directly, they can guide you on the process and what state resources might be available. Consult with an Attorney: Consider consulting with an employment law attorney who is familiar with South Carolina's laws. An attorney can advise you on the best course of action, whether it's negotiating a settlement or filing a lawsuit. They can also help you understand your rights and the strengths of your case. Small Claims Court: For amounts under a certain threshold (which varies by state), you might be able to bring a claim in small claims court without the need for an attorney. In South Carolina, the limit for small claims court is $7,500. Federal Claim: If your case involves violations of federal law (such as FLSA violations), you might also have the option to file a complaint with the U.S. Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division. Each case is unique, so it's important to get personalized legal advice. An attorney can help you navigate the specific procedures and ensure your rights are protected throughout the process.
micromacrofoot 3y ago
the hypocritical nature of companies that employ wage theft is something else too... companies like walmart, walgreens, cvs, etc are largely responsible for "organized retail crime" being showcased in the media... and they use this complaint when they close locations in poor neighborhoods and create pharmacy deserts (and to be clear, it seems to be a big lie)... but they'll try to get their outrageously larger wage theft settlements buried many media outlets are complicit with this, and are either getting completely fooled by these PR tactics or simply don't care
rsynnott 3y ago
So, one thing that surprises me about this article is the lack of mention of the tax authorities. At least in this country, hell hath no fury like a tax authority which thinks it isn't getting all the payroll tax it's entitled to, and it's one of the easier types of evasion for them to go after. Why isn't the IRS chasing these employers?
jokoon 3y ago
The US never ceases to surprise me That's so medieval and backward for a country like that
- stevenwoo 3y ago
  If I'm not mistaken, we are the only country which has a founding document enshrining chattel slavery. Many of the issues in the USA stem from this, amendments notwithstanding - it's a stain on everything, arguments in the top legal court, the Supreme Court, frequently bring up the historicity so we are constantly enmeshed in very old and sometimes medieval thinking, i.e. recent abortion decision referenced many legal arguments that preceded modern biology or medicine.
  - jokoon 3y ago
    what bothers me is that the country with the most dominant military sometimes looks like it might turn bad which would not be good for the rest of the world
  - eesmith 3y ago
    Which document? I can't find where the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation or the US Constitution enshrine chattel slavery. None mention slavery directly, eg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_and_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_and_the_United_States_... says there are only indirect references. Brazil's independence from Brazil was declared in 1822 and recognized in 1825. "Slavery was legitimated as a historical institution in the Brazilian Constitution of 1824 in the right to own property." says https://oxfordre.com/latinamericanhistory/display/10.1093/acrefore/9780199366439.001.0001/acrefore-9780199366439-e-861 https://oxfordre.com/latinamericanhistory/display/10.1093/ac... More specifically, just like the US Constitution does not mention slavery, https://constitutionalstudies.wisc.edu/index.php/cs/article/view/104 https://constitutionalstudies.wisc.edu/index.php/cs/article/... writes: "Given its Enlightenment inspiration and proclaimed liberal spirit the Brazilian Constitution of 1824 never explicitly employed the words slave or slavery. But it did implicitly recognize the slaveholding character of Brazilian society when it subtly confessed the inequality among men. To some extent it had to, for the far-reaching consequences of the slave-master relationship were too important to be fully ignored. The solution the constituent found was to borrow categories from Roman law.5 Article 6 of the Charta established that Brazilians were those born in Brazil, either ingenuous or freed. Ingenuous were those born free, while freed were those born slaves but manumitted (Ribas 1880, 49)." .. It seems that "masters could revoke a granted manumission in case of ingratitude." Brazil did not abolish slavery until 1888.
larsrc 3y ago
I happened to find out what the Danish laws for not getting paid on time are, as the company I was working for got into financial trouble. If you're not paid on time, you can send a letter setting a deadline for the payment - typically a week or two. If you're not paid by then, you get to declare the company bankrupt. You can stop working, and you will get the next three month's payment from a state-run fund, even if you find other work. Isn't socialism just wonderful?
chaosharmonic 3y ago
Worth noting that lawmakers in New York, where the focus of this piece is, recently unveiled a trio of bills[0] aimed at curtailing wage theft, effectively shutting down businesses that steal $1k or more from their employees. [0] https://www.propublica.org/article/wage-theft-law-new-york-violators-doing-business https://www.propublica.org/article/wage-theft-law-new-york-v...
PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
When I was young my parents to my fathers employer to court for wage theft and won. My mother always meticulously logged when my father clocked in and when he clocked out. All my life she did this. At one employer they immediately noticed my father wasn't getting paid what he should be. So they let it rack up to a decent amount and took them to court. The judge took the years of time logs as proper documentation.
mbostleman 3y ago
The article starts with a scenario from commercial construction in which pay to workers was delayed at times and some ultimately never collected. The commercial construction industry can be a risky environment. I spent some time in this supply chain and the monthly billing to the owner was always a nail biting experience similar to a rocket launch. Is every sub billing for the right amount of labor and materials? Do we have evidence that materials delivered but not installed are on site and secure, or did some of it grow legs over the weekend? How is the owner's liquidity? Are the business drivers that justified the investment (eg. tenants) still a go? Because if not, the financing will pull out. While the Guardian likes to imply that the first company upstream of the workers is a thief, the reality is far more complex. There might be some dealings that could be called theft but, before you get to those, you'd have to remove all the dealings that involve a risky chain of transactions that failed somewhere along the line.
HumanReadable 3y ago
I am generally not very fond of unions, but prevent wage theft is a very important function Unions have historically done very well. If there ever was an argument for unions, better contract enforcement would be it.
Bobbyben 3y ago
[flagged]
Throwthrowbob 3y ago
Seeing some other comments about unfair power dynamics: Parking. Parking lot fines where you are accused of misusing a lot and fined: https://globalnews.ca/news/10217661/bc-man-private-parking-company-unfair-ticket/ https://globalnews.ca/news/10217661/bc-man-private-parking-c... Or being charged a fine when you were never there (due to someone reporting your number): https://globalnews.ca/news/9668618/bc-woman-fights-parking-violation-precise-parklink/ https://globalnews.ca/news/9668618/bc-woman-fights-parking-v... Or when trying to find another working machine your vehicle was ticketed even after being explained it would be waived (sorry, video): https://globalnews.ca/video/10283604/fort-langley-parking-ticket-challenged/ https://globalnews.ca/video/10283604/fort-langley-parking-ti...

385 points by wahnfrieden 3y ago

Bet attorneys and Gov did.

> A bartender in Orlando, Florida who requested to remain anonymous because they still work in the industry, said they started a new bartending job in May and pushed back when they found out their hourly wage was just a daily rate of $30, despite working eight-hour shifts. > “I reminded my manager that paying less than minimum wage was illegal, and added a link to a law firm’s page about it. He fired me,” the worker said. “Getting fired for not wanting to be paid below the already insanely low minimum wage after working in the industry for over 20 years was pretty rough.” > The worker attempted to file a complaint with the US Department of Labor and the Florida attorney general’s office but was told they only prioritize higher wage violations and never heard back after being told someone would follow up.

Clubber 3y ago
Florida AG has unlimited funds for CYA but not to help the people who most need it. Figures.
Workaccount2 3y ago
[flagged]
- alkonaut 3y ago
  Most of the factors are beyond your control when it comes to how busy a place is. Sure a smile helps fill a restaurant, but mostly - it's other people's responsibility. Anyone employed full time in an empty restaurant for a full month should both make a living wage AND have 40h work. If there isn't enough work to fill the shifts, or enough guests to make tips - that's not the service staff's problem, it's the owner.
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    If you are working at a place that doesn't have volume for a month...thats on you. Restaurants are a dime a dozen and slow ones die quick. Getting a job at one is simply filling out an application and talking to the manager. It's very easy. Sure, if you live in rural area maybe it can be tough, but if you are in the 80% who live in metro areas, the bar is very low to find a place(s) where you can do well.
    - alkonaut 3y ago
      I guess waiting staff was always seen as a "gig economy" in the US. (Where I live, it's a salaried job, 3-6 months of notice from the employer and so on.)
    - yareal 3y ago
      If you work, you deserve a living wage. Tipped labor sucks for a host of reasons, but even if you pick a "bad" restaurant you should still get enough money from your work to live.
- fzeroracer 3y ago
  What does any of what you just said have to do with their employer violating Florida labor laws? They have specific wages for both tipped and non tipped employees. The wage as mentioned above was well below the tipped wage line as defined by Florida law.

elzbardico 3y ago

The standard civil courts pipeline sucks as a mechanism for labor rights protection. You'll need expedited courts and a speedier process to dissuade this kind of thing. It needs to be as straightforward as child support law.

wahnfrieden 3y ago
There's no voting solution to gaining that unfortunately
- danaris 3y ago
  Well, not today. But if this year you vote for candidates who are more favorable to labor than the other candidates, and then you continue making that (part of) your strategy over the course of several elections, you can start to shift things. Especially if you can get other people on board with the movement. It's not like the current situation came about by chance or some cosmic inevitability: the right wing in America has been consistently showing up and voting in larger numbers for decades to get where we are.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    You would have happily voted for Hindenburg? Labor wins that we have today have come from coordinated labor movements across partisan lines, not from voting and waiting on service from politicians
    - danaris 3y ago
      I'm afraid I don't know offhand who Hindenburg is, nor even what country he was running in, but: In the US, due to the winner-take-all, first-past-the-post voting system, if Hindenburg was running against a candidate in the general election who was even one step worse than he was, then yes, I would have voted for him. Even if his platform included kicking puppies and stealing candy from babies. (Because, remember, in this hypothetical, his opponent's platform includes, say, setting fire to puppies and kicking babies.) Any other choice, under the system we have here, is mathematically certain to increase the chance of the candidate I like least winning. Voting is not saying "I like this person and agree with everything they say." It is saying "I think that, of the two choices on offer, this person is the most likely to move the county/state/country toward the situation I prefer." It's not about whether the vote makes me happy. It's about whether it makes the world a marginally better place than the realistic alternatives.

AniseAbyss 3y ago

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gadders 3y ago

From the article: >> There are numerous forms of wage theft, from employers not compensating workers for time worked, violating minimum wage and overtime laws, misclassifying employees as independent contractors, not providing legally required meal breaks, confiscating worker tips, or illegally taking deductions from worker wages. Yeah, one of those isn't like the others. I know unions and the tax people hate it, but some people are perfectly happy to be independent contractors. Having said all that, for all the others make the company directors personally liable.

bjornevik 3y ago
> misclassifying
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Another one is misclassifying non exempt employees as exempt, and not paying them for more than 40 hours per week. Big in immigrant circles where one or two people will operate a 24/7 or near 24/7 business and be called “managers” when they have no management autonomy.
InitialLastName 3y ago
> some people are perfectly happy to be independent contractors. Literally nobody is denying that. The issue is that many companies are also happy to use the classification to their advantage when the roles don't meet the legal standard their society has put forth as the requirement for someone to be an independent contractor (largely e.g. genuine independence in their work).
- screenothethird 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - gadders 3y ago
    >>being an idiot Have you been talking to my wife?

spamizbad 3y ago

This phenomena is pretty widespread in the service industry and I would venture to say that a significant minority of businesses participate in some version of wage theft. For example, one of my jobs right out of high school was waiting tables at a local restaurant. If you were opening, the expectation from owners and management was you'd get in early to help open but would wait 15 minutes before service started before clocking in. So on those days you'd do 30-45 minutes of fully unpaid labor. There was well understood that if you complained about this not only would they fire you but they'd call up all their industry buddies and you'd basically be on every other restaurants no-hire list. At the time I was pretty naive and didn't think much of it, just figured that's the way the world worked. Doing the math, because I always made more than the tipped minimum wage, I think it only ended up costing me $7/week in wages - but if I stole $7 out of the till each week for a year in a half I'd be charged with a felony.

antisthenes 3y ago
Amazing pettiness from the owners for what is essentially $10 worth of labor (or less)
- spacecadet 3y ago
  This sums up much of american rural small business... I started working at 12 and had many random jobs between 12-18 that were run by awful people. Our family has a small farm, my parents didn't think we did enough of that and put me in a white van full of migrant workers at 12 years old (hey the 80s!) to go pick produce in a field all day... It was grueling work but I got a first hand account of migrant farm workers and the way they are treated.
  - vdaea 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
      This is a really shitty take. I don't think you're a decent person if that's how you truly feel.

devmor 3y ago

This topic always reminds me of one of my first jobs as a young adult. It was a call center, for political polling. The facility was foul, we had rats running around, frequent minor electrocutions from improperly maintained power and of course, all sorts of backhanded tactics to avoid paying employees what they were owed. At some point, someone had enough and reported something to OSHA - I’m not sure what, but the day the inspector showed up, our supervisors came around the office telling us all that we had better lie to the inspector because if we tell the truth, they’ll shut us down for weeks and no one will be able to pay their rent. I wonder how many other people struggle with that issue daily. The inability to try to make their employer do the bare minimum out of fear of losing what they do have.

dbingham 3y ago

One of the clearest illustrations of the deeply injust structural power imbalance at the heart of our economic system is wage theft. If your employer withholds $20 from your paycheck it's a civil violation of contract law. You have to go through an extremely onerous and convoluted process that very likely won't go anywhere. If, in response, you decide to pay yourself by taking $20 from the till, that's criminal theft. You will be arrested by the police, sent to jail, and charged in the criminal justice system.

iforgotpassword 3y ago
That's because in one case you're stealing from an individual, and in the other from a business. The former group is usually not well organized, uneducated wrt the according laws, and too scared to go against the guy paying them. Their discontent with the establishment is usually unleashed in the most nonsensical ways, like we saw during covid. Anti-maskers/-vaxxers had a disproportionate amount of people from these kind of low-skilled exploited jobs.
geodel 3y ago
Well a simple reason could be probability of person take money and disappearing vs institution/business withhold person's money and disappearing. To be clear I am not defending it. If anything I was on receiving end of this behavior from a douchebag employer.
MOARDONGZPLZ 3y ago
Not quite true, DOL will go to bat for you and fine the employer and get you paid. Violations of labor law are not simply small claims civil matters. Some employers get large fines.
- dbingham 3y ago
  The whole article is about how DOL mostly doesn't go to bat for people. Of $50 bil in wage theft, DOL recovered ~$3 bil.
  - 3y ago

throwaway_wt 3y ago

At a previous employer, the employee handbook defined “wage theft” as failure to work the required number of hours as agreed defined in the employee’s contract. I distinctly remember that the handbook used the term “wage theft” and not “time card theft” or “fraud”.

draw_down 3y ago
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charles_f 3y ago
Yeah, I've seen something similar but they were calling it "time theft". Funny enough this company had a reputation for stealing time, so they'd know

draw_down 3y ago

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mrangle 3y ago

Slaving: Not paying for work. Internships: some may be legit, most are slave labor schemes with many being deeply institutionalized in systems such as healthcare and education. Lower than minimum wage with an expectation that tips will make up the difference (just be done with tipping, pay at least minimum wage, and raise food prices). Mistreatment

pitaj 3y ago
That is not the definition of slavery. Slavery is being forced to work.
- vaidhy 3y ago
  I would amend that slavery is being forced to work for a single person/corporation with a massive penalty for trying to change it.
  - mrangle 3y ago
    It deserves to be amended to a far greater degree than that, but also the above statement isn't relevant when there is only one "employer" available. Which has often been the case, historically, and maybe more so in the future.
- mrangle 3y ago
  Logically and morally speaking, if not semantically speaking given a logically and morally inadequate definition for a highly political word, that's completely false. Virtually everyone is forced to work, or face death. Being forced to work is the de facto human experience. Effectively, there isn't a choice to work or not. Presenting work as a choice is closely analagous to presenting eating as a choice Pay, or relative lack thereof, is what defines degree of slavery (complete or partial). The only real arguments being a.) if one is paid what the work is worth and b.) how much of that pay is retaken in the form of taxes (direct or indirect like when company towns, or estates, recoup most of the pay in the form of costs to the laborer). Therefore, we will add an additional form of enslavement process: purposefully (often illegally) diulting the value of labor so that it is cheaper. If a serf is "paid" but the boss and landlord recoups nearly all of that pay in rent and taxes, is the serf a slave? Few moral and logical people would say no. Slaver hand-waving deserves to be called out.

darth_avocado 3y ago

People thinking wage theft only affects lower wage workers, let me tell you how tech companies commit wage theft: 1. Having annual components to wages (RSUs, bonuses), making you work all year and firing you just before they have to pay you. 2. Having no overtime for salaried employees 3. Having employees work extra responsibilities that are not part of the job description by promising promotions and then not giving it to them

wahnfrieden 3y ago
These are legalized forms of wage theft, the article is about the illegal forms. But yes the legal ones are just as unpleasant
- jmclnx 3y ago
  Maybe, but I know of a case where a contractor for a fortune 500 company working in IT had I think some of his salary stolen (in Texas). The company released the contract and he was put on the bench working for the contracting firm on their projects. They would pay him once per month. They fired him after a few months, not pay him is back pay. He filed a claim with Texas, nothing was done. When he told me (a year or 2 later) I said he should file with the Federal Gov, but he did not want to. So it can happen in office work too.
sneak 3y ago
Any promises not made in writing and signed by both parties aren’t promises. None of these are theft, just poor business skills on the part of the employees. Get it in writing so you can sue later, or don’t ever count on it. It’s basic business skills.
- darth_avocado 3y ago
  > It’s basic business skills Job offers are often take it or leave it, because of the inherent power dynamics in the industry. These “basic business skills” will essentially leave you out of a job.

danielovichdk 3y ago

Thank tour union if you have one.

DrNosferatu 3y ago

Not only in the US, I would say - in general - wage-theft is indeed the actual business model of most outsourcing/"consulting" businesses. Seek a rent, sweat the asset: more and more business-as-usual today.

tretwertAC 3y ago

So, you're telling me yet another intervention, this time minimum wage fiat, doesn't work? Who could have thought?

metabagel 3y ago
There’s the law, and then there is enforcement of the law.
cool_dude85 3y ago
Are you a libertarian? Much wage theft is not paying for time worked - a violation of one of the sacred Contracts you little rascals love so much.
charles_f 3y ago
I don't know how you make the jump from human exploitation to "there's too much interventions". Libertarians and ultra capitalists see the building on fire and complain that we have too many firefighters. Let this building auto-regulate! To some degree it's probably the same mechanisms of self-deception that conspiracy theorists use to make themselves feel good and superior for having seen the light. There is no magic effect of the capitalism system. It eats workers and shits billionaires. It won't self correct. And arguably yes, all the regulations are just patches to the system, but short of a revolution and changing the system itself, that's the best there is for now.

kingkawn 3y ago

Unions Unions Unions

timbit42 3y ago
Even better: Worker Cooperatives.
- kingkawn 3y ago
  I agree that something with a more diffused power-structure to the worker population is better.
InCityDreams 3y ago
Thanks to whom I enjoy two days off a week and, the safety dude immediately corrected something I'd pointed out as dangerous 5 years ago.
- kingkawn 3y ago
  So join one and work to make it better.

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

(2023)

FpUser 3y ago

When it is actual theft why the owners/authors of said theft are not charged criminally? Why laws are asymmetric? When Hertz complains about car theft while there is none the renters are getting charged.

vundercind 3y ago
The answer is in the name of our economic system: Capital -ism. We basically put a big flashing sign right out front saying whose interests are the top priority.
- Philorandroid 3y ago
  That's such a yellow-press non-answer. Annoyed interpretations of the name of something doesn't offer any insight into, or affect the reality of, the thing.
  - vundercind 3y ago
    I think it’s interesting that the labeling and the observed behavior of the system really do match.
    - Philorandroid 3y ago
      Again, you've made no claims, only voiced vague notions of your distaste
      - vundercind 3y ago
        I claim that the name “capitalism” states whose interests are favored in our system. That’s a claim, and it’s not vague. Also I didn’t voice distaste.
        Philorandroid 3y ago
        It's hard to interpret "We basically put a big flashing sign right out front saying whose interests are the top priority" as anything but distaste, just as it's hard to parse "the name “capitalism” states whose interests are favored in our system" as anything but a favorable verisimilitude. Whose capital? Construction contractors? Service industry bosses? How exactly are they favored? Clearly wage theft is a well-understood phenomenon, so wouldn't it be a greater indictment of the legal system backing the law than the system that rests on top of it? How is any of this unique to a capitalist system and prevented in, say, command economies?

andsoitis 3y ago

> Eventually Martinez and several of his co-workers left after not getting paid for four weeks of work. If my employer fails to make even a single paycheck I would immediately be looking for another job because the chances are that it isn't that they're looking for free labor, but rather that they have cashflow problems. I am not interested to depend on a sinking ship for my income.

jt2190 3y ago
When the cash flow of an income-generating investment changes, a disciplined investor will rebalance to reduce the risk to their portfolio to the desired level. For many people their job is their major investment.
FireBeyond 3y ago
Even above and beyond that. Worked for a company where the owner had admirably bootstrapped himself from working in a copier room at a law firm to owning a large copy/print/scan business that handled law firms in two cities and was a millionaire mid-late 20s. Would give me my check (after repeatedly asking, though never "late"), and usually say something like "this will cash today, but if you can wait til Monday or Tuesday, I'd prefer that". Hell no. I went downstairs within minutes every time and put that straight in the bank, and I did it over the teller (we banked with the same bank, so it was processed immediately).

mihaaly 3y ago

I believe it is a difficult to avoid byproduct of a competitive society (so basicly all). Contractors/suppliers compete with lower price that need to be balanced some way, employees compete with their willingness to work cheaper or more to have any kind of income at all sometimes. Some do it for greed only, employee and employer alike. I know someone, well paid construction engineer, who was willing to get into a shady situation so both his employee and himself can save on taxes, sharing financial gain of pretending non-employment relationship. This involved payment in bulk for months of work which at a financial downturn ended up in not getting paid - along multitude of exuses and promises - loosing almost 2 years of work worth of money for the engineer and the need to find someone else to work for in a desperate time risking the livelyhood of his family. Meanwhile his previous 'partner' in crime of course fluorished instead of sharing the loss too after the benefits. The engineer had no means to do anything being an accomplice for long, both dependent on the partner's payment but without any small means to put pressure on them. Exposed completely. It is too easy to be smartass about someone else's life and situation but since individual employees are always more fragile than organizations the best to avoid extreme competition advantages like above and have reserves for situations when an organization stops paying - e.g. being on the brink of collapse - so one can have better position of pressuring by not working until payment arrives in parallel of looking for other possibilities in case the likely eventuality of loosing job comes. Of course this is what is almost impossible to achive for most, especially for the most vulnerable: there will always someone to take the place of 'troublesome' employees, sometimes for less or offering more. As a product of desperation (in lack of reserves and possibilities but the need of buying food for the family). Shady figures exploit this. Unity against exploitation would help but we rather compete to raise above others.

btbuildem 3y ago

I wonder if the workers still owe taxes on the unpaid wages. I bet the gov't plays it that way, leaving the burden on the victims of the crime.

iancmceachern 3y ago

This happened to me, from a big "trusted" company.

rebuilder 3y ago

So what you do is you have a system where employees can claim unpaid wages from a government agency who pays them and then goes after the company that didn’t pay to recover the money.

Ccecil 3y ago

I know this is not the same thing but there is another form of what I consider wage theft that is totally legal in my state. That is the ability of an employer to pay almost half of minimum wage based on the fact that the employee gets tips. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped In my state...Idaho...employees can be paid as low as $3.35 (if I am reading that correctly). I know many people local who worked under this law for many years. The town I am in it costs approx 2x the average "renters salary" to afford to live. We currently have constant "now hiring" signs on almost every building. One of the largest employers in the area uses this law to pay their people peanuts. The only ones who can afford to stay in this town are the ones who already had houses before the "doubling" that happened over the last 5 years...and often they are on edge too. But you know..."Go ruthless capitalism".

stcredzero 3y ago

This has happened to me! In a programming job, no less! Is this something which could be addressed through the use of a specialized AI assistant? The biggest barrier to uncompensated workers is the cost of litigation. If the worker could represent themselves effectively, then this would stop.

mrguyorama 3y ago
>Is this something which could be addressed through the use of a specialized AI assistant? JFC tech workers sometimes. Just unionize man, that's like the whole point of unions. An "AI assistant" that was effective would be telling you the same thing. You can't convince your boss that paying you what you are owed is the correct choice, you don't have any power in the relationship. Whether they are right or not, they BELIEVE you are eminently replaceable.
- stcredzero 3y ago
  JFC tech workers sometimes. Just unionize man Basically, people don't want to do the lawsuit, because they don't know how and to pay for the expertise, it would cost more than the paycheck. The most straightforward way to fix it, is to make the expertise low or zero cost. An "AI assistant" that was effective would be telling you the same thing. No, it would tell me how to conduct the lawsuit. Below is what ChatGPT-4 just told me. Had I known back then, I would have just done this. (And I note that the lawyer who told me it would cost me more than I would get back didn't tell me a lot of this!) User I have been shorted $4000 on my last paycheck when I was let go by a software company in Columbia, South Carolina. What is the jurisprudence on being shorted pay, what do I have to prove, and how do I go about bringing the lawsuit. ChatGPT In a situation where you've been shorted on your final paycheck, the specific steps you can take and the jurisprudence around it largely depend on both federal and state laws. Here's a general overview of what you need to know and potential steps you could take, specifically tailored to Columbia, South Carolina: Jurisprudence on Being Shorted Pay Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA): At the federal level, the FLSA requires that employees are paid for all hours worked. If an employer fails to pay you what you're owed, you may have a claim under the FLSA. State Laws: South Carolina has its own labor laws that complement federal laws. While South Carolina does not have specific laws governing the timing of final paychecks for terminated employees, employers are generally expected to adhere to the agreed-upon terms of pay. If no specific terms are set, then they must follow the usual pay schedule. What You Have to Prove To bring a successful claim for unpaid wages, you typically need to prove: The Amount Owed: Documentation or evidence of the agreed-upon wages and the shortfall in your final paycheck. Hours Worked: Evidence of the hours you worked for which you have not been paid. This could include time sheets, emails, or other records. Attempts to Resolve: It's often beneficial to show that you've made reasonable attempts to resolve the issue with your employer before resorting to legal action. Steps to Take Review Employment Agreement: Check your employment contract or any official documentation regarding pay rates, schedules, and termination policies. Gather Documentation: Compile all relevant documents, including pay stubs, employment contracts, correspondence with the employer about your pay, and any records of hours worked. Attempt to Resolve Directly: It's often recommended to attempt to resolve the issue with your employer directly. Sometimes, pay discrepancies are due to clerical errors and can be corrected without legal action. File a Wage Claim: If direct resolution isn't possible, you can file a wage claim with the South Carolina Department of Labor, Licensing and Regulation (SCLLR). While SCLLR does not handle wage disputes directly, they can guide you on the process and what state resources might be available. Consult with an Attorney: Consider consulting with an employment law attorney who is familiar with South Carolina's laws. An attorney can advise you on the best course of action, whether it's negotiating a settlement or filing a lawsuit. They can also help you understand your rights and the strengths of your case. Small Claims Court: For amounts under a certain threshold (which varies by state), you might be able to bring a claim in small claims court without the need for an attorney. In South Carolina, the limit for small claims court is $7,500. Federal Claim: If your case involves violations of federal law (such as FLSA violations), you might also have the option to file a complaint with the U.S. Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division. Each case is unique, so it's important to get personalized legal advice. An attorney can help you navigate the specific procedures and ensure your rights are protected throughout the process.

micromacrofoot 3y ago

the hypocritical nature of companies that employ wage theft is something else too... companies like walmart, walgreens, cvs, etc are largely responsible for "organized retail crime" being showcased in the media... and they use this complaint when they close locations in poor neighborhoods and create pharmacy deserts (and to be clear, it seems to be a big lie)... but they'll try to get their outrageously larger wage theft settlements buried many media outlets are complicit with this, and are either getting completely fooled by these PR tactics or simply don't care

rsynnott 3y ago

So, one thing that surprises me about this article is the lack of mention of the tax authorities. At least in this country, hell hath no fury like a tax authority which thinks it isn't getting all the payroll tax it's entitled to, and it's one of the easier types of evasion for them to go after. Why isn't the IRS chasing these employers?

jokoon 3y ago

The US never ceases to surprise me That's so medieval and backward for a country like that

stevenwoo 3y ago
If I'm not mistaken, we are the only country which has a founding document enshrining chattel slavery. Many of the issues in the USA stem from this, amendments notwithstanding - it's a stain on everything, arguments in the top legal court, the Supreme Court, frequently bring up the historicity so we are constantly enmeshed in very old and sometimes medieval thinking, i.e. recent abortion decision referenced many legal arguments that preceded modern biology or medicine.
- jokoon 3y ago
  what bothers me is that the country with the most dominant military sometimes looks like it might turn bad which would not be good for the rest of the world
- eesmith 3y ago
  Which document? I can't find where the Declaration of Independence, Articles of Confederation or the US Constitution enshrine chattel slavery. None mention slavery directly, eg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_and_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_and_the_United_States_... says there are only indirect references. Brazil's independence from Brazil was declared in 1822 and recognized in 1825. "Slavery was legitimated as a historical institution in the Brazilian Constitution of 1824 in the right to own property." says https://oxfordre.com/latinamericanhistory/display/10.1093/acrefore/9780199366439.001.0001/acrefore-9780199366439-e-861 https://oxfordre.com/latinamericanhistory/display/10.1093/ac... More specifically, just like the US Constitution does not mention slavery, https://constitutionalstudies.wisc.edu/index.php/cs/article/view/104 https://constitutionalstudies.wisc.edu/index.php/cs/article/... writes: "Given its Enlightenment inspiration and proclaimed liberal spirit the Brazilian Constitution of 1824 never explicitly employed the words slave or slavery. But it did implicitly recognize the slaveholding character of Brazilian society when it subtly confessed the inequality among men. To some extent it had to, for the far-reaching consequences of the slave-master relationship were too important to be fully ignored. The solution the constituent found was to borrow categories from Roman law.5 Article 6 of the Charta established that Brazilians were those born in Brazil, either ingenuous or freed. Ingenuous were those born free, while freed were those born slaves but manumitted (Ribas 1880, 49)." .. It seems that "masters could revoke a granted manumission in case of ingratitude." Brazil did not abolish slavery until 1888.

larsrc 3y ago

I happened to find out what the Danish laws for not getting paid on time are, as the company I was working for got into financial trouble. If you're not paid on time, you can send a letter setting a deadline for the payment - typically a week or two. If you're not paid by then, you get to declare the company bankrupt. You can stop working, and you will get the next three month's payment from a state-run fund, even if you find other work. Isn't socialism just wonderful?

chaosharmonic 3y ago

Worth noting that lawmakers in New York, where the focus of this piece is, recently unveiled a trio of bills[0] aimed at curtailing wage theft, effectively shutting down businesses that steal $1k or more from their employees. [0] https://www.propublica.org/article/wage-theft-law-new-york-violators-doing-business https://www.propublica.org/article/wage-theft-law-new-york-v...

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago

When I was young my parents to my fathers employer to court for wage theft and won. My mother always meticulously logged when my father clocked in and when he clocked out. All my life she did this. At one employer they immediately noticed my father wasn't getting paid what he should be. So they let it rack up to a decent amount and took them to court. The judge took the years of time logs as proper documentation.

mbostleman 3y ago

The article starts with a scenario from commercial construction in which pay to workers was delayed at times and some ultimately never collected. The commercial construction industry can be a risky environment. I spent some time in this supply chain and the monthly billing to the owner was always a nail biting experience similar to a rocket launch. Is every sub billing for the right amount of labor and materials? Do we have evidence that materials delivered but not installed are on site and secure, or did some of it grow legs over the weekend? How is the owner's liquidity? Are the business drivers that justified the investment (eg. tenants) still a go? Because if not, the financing will pull out. While the Guardian likes to imply that the first company upstream of the workers is a thief, the reality is far more complex. There might be some dealings that could be called theft but, before you get to those, you'd have to remove all the dealings that involve a risky chain of transactions that failed somewhere along the line.

HumanReadable 3y ago

I am generally not very fond of unions, but prevent wage theft is a very important function Unions have historically done very well. If there ever was an argument for unions, better contract enforcement would be it.

Bobbyben 3y ago

[flagged]

Throwthrowbob 3y ago

Seeing some other comments about unfair power dynamics: Parking. Parking lot fines where you are accused of misusing a lot and fined: https://globalnews.ca/news/10217661/bc-man-private-parking-company-unfair-ticket/ https://globalnews.ca/news/10217661/bc-man-private-parking-c... Or being charged a fine when you were never there (due to someone reporting your number): https://globalnews.ca/news/9668618/bc-woman-fights-parking-violation-precise-parklink/ https://globalnews.ca/news/9668618/bc-woman-fights-parking-v... Or when trying to find another working machine your vehicle was ticketed even after being explained it would be waived (sorry, video): https://globalnews.ca/video/10283604/fort-langley-parking-ticket-challenged/ https://globalnews.ca/video/10283604/fort-langley-parking-ti...