5 ms·

The things I like about woodworking: * It's tangible. I can put in a couple of hours of work and then step back and see exactly what's been accomplished. * Th

by avemg 3y ago

The things I like about woodworking: * It's tangible. I can put in a couple of hours of work and then step back and see exactly what's been accomplished. * The techniques are hundreds/thousands of years old. New tools come along (not as quickly as they do in software), but at the end of the day, we've pretty much decided on a handful of best ways to do things. There's always new stuff to learn, but you're very rarely inventing something from whole cloth. * And my personal favorite: Every project has a definite end. That jewelry box or coffee table is FINISHED. Sure, after a time I might put a new coat of finish on something, but once a piece leaves my shop it's done. I'm not forever tweaking this or that about it, trying to make it something it was never meant to be or tearing pieces of it apart to redo the joinery or whatever.

haroldp 3y ago
Covered in sawdust right now from building a pull-out drawer for a kitchen cabinet. It came out square and the joints were tight enough to hold it together for the dry fit. Very satisfying. I am still mostly terrible at this. > It's tangible. This is the best part for me. Programming often reminds me of the "I sell air"[1] scene from City Slickers. The down side of this is that there's no undo. You have 300 operations to step through and if you mess one up you probably need to start over. > The techniques are hundreds/thousands of years old. Watching Clickspring recreate the Antikythera mechanism[2] has made it obvious to me that loads of secret knowledge was trapped in guilds and missing from the historical record as a result. You can do so much with basic hand tools. The down side is that there's so much temptation to buy expensive shit. Or worse, think you can't build anything because you don't have $15,000 worth of pro tools. I really needed a thickness planer on this project. > Every project has a definite end. So much. Fuck maintenance. No down side 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77xaqFyFET0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77xaqFyFET0 2. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZioPDnFPNsHnyxfygxA0to4RXv4_jDU2 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZioPDnFPNsHnyxfygxA0...
- tharkun__ 3y ago
  >> It's tangible. > You have 300 operations to step through and if you mess one up you probably need to start over. This, but ;) I really like that you don't have undo but you still don't have to start over. You have to learn how to build things and what to do when you inevitably eff up and how to cover it up! And then you go around the house and check how the builders/tradespeople covered up their mistakes or how they were simply never as perfect to begin with as you think you need to be. The difference being that unfortunately you will know forever where you effed up and even if you cover it up so that nobody will ever notice unless you tell them, you will be able to see it. I can still see the tile in the bathroom being siliconed in instead of grouted where we opened it up to allow access when re-piping the house vs. the regular grout even though objectively it's exactly the same color and even the texture is close enough. I siliconed it just in case because this was the second to last extra tile, so if we ever need to open it up again, I want to be able to just cut the silicone vs. destroying the tile like the contractor did to gain access the first time. Same when I do woodworking. I will always remember/see the gap that was too wide after I cut it incorrectly and filled it in with sawdust and glue from the exact same wood. I keep a bunch of containers w/ the different wood types' sawdust for just these cases.
  - conductr 3y ago
    I like that it forces me to really be smart about planning out those 300 operations, plan around constraints like tool/material availability, and then sometimes even re-evaluate mid stream when you realize your plan was off a little
- ajmurmann 3y ago
  > The down side of this is that there's no undo. You have 300 operations to step through and if you mess one up you probably need to start over. This is why I love ceramics and wheel throwing in particular. It's relatively quick, but at any step something can go wrong, especially at my skill level. Sometimes you throw the same piece, apply the same glaze and it comes out quite different. It prevents you from getting too attached to any one piece and forces me towards a zen-like attitude. In some way it makes it even more a balanced to software engineering.
  - mejutoco 3y ago
    I really like this aspect of ceramics. Plus, before the clay goes into the kiln and is glazed it can always be recycled, so no guilt.
    - ajmurmann 3y ago
      Yes, the recycling aspect really helps with how viable it is to not get attached to a piece till it's done.
- coffeebeqn 3y ago
  > You have 300 operations to step through and if you mess one up you probably need to start over. Only if you’re a perfectionist. You can always adjust the plan or do some annoying work with glueing. And usually it’s one part of a bigger thing that can be redone individually. Unless you’re sculpting a giant piece of wood like marble
- wlesieutre 3y ago
  > You have 300 operations to step through and if you mess one up you probably need to start over. I’ve heard a couple of people say that the #1 skill of master woodworkers is fixing mistakes. Keep at it and you (usually) won’t have to start over.
  - bradly 3y ago
    I help teach woodworking and there is a lot of truth in this. There are very few mistakes in wood that cannot be fixed.
- dajt 3y ago
  I do 'model engineering' which is mostly metalwork, and it's about the same. You end up with something tangible but it really hurts when you make a mistake many hours into a part and have to scrap it and start again. Especially if it's not plain old steel, so just cost a lot. You do learn to save a part from some types of mistakes but it's not always possible. I think it's great that software lets you build castles in the air and mistakes generally only cost time, and fixes or improvements can be incremental but it does get old when many projects are scrapped before being used so you feel like you're just wasting time. I find the 'no undo' and a perfectionistic streak add immeasureably to the stress of my 'hobby' but now I have finally finished my steam loco after 10 years I do like looking at it and driving it.
  - iAmAPencilYo 3y ago
    > ... I have finally finished my steam loco after 10 years I do like looking at it and driving it. That sounds fascinating! Could you share some more about your project?
    - fho 3y ago
      "Blondyhacks" on YouTube is currently in the process of build model steam locomotive. You might want to check that out.
      - Doxin 3y ago
        Or one of their previous projects if you'd like to binge start-to-finish.
    - dajt 3y ago
      It's about 1/11 scale of the real one, so the next size up from what Blondiehacks is building, and a bit more complicated and detailed. But essentially the same thing, a steam loco that runs on coal & water and works just like the real thing in every respect. See https://i.imgur.com/GuHR2j6.jpg https://i.imgur.com/GuHR2j6.jpg It can haul me and about 8 or 10 other people. It's a pretty popular hobby - look for live steam on YouTube.
  - 3y ago
- irrational 3y ago
  Now I want to see a YouTube series where they show how to the same task with different tools. Here is how we use a planer. Now we will do the same thing using a router sled. Now the same thing with some hand planes. And so forth.
  - jtuente 3y ago
    Jonathan Katz Moses, Stumpy Nubs, and The Wood Whisperer all have different videos like that. And then there's all kinds of channels that do pro, journeyman, novice builds of the same idea, sometimes as competition.
- otikik 3y ago
  > You have 300 operations to step through and if you mess one up you probably need to start over. As long as this is a hobby and not a job, you don't "need" to start over. If you mess up you got a lot of very useful scrap wood for the next project.
- huytersd 3y ago
  How did you build drawers without a planer or atleast a jointer? Did to buy pre surfaced wood or spend hours with a bench plane?
  - haroldp 3y ago
    I actually built the frame from crappy construction 2x4s milled down to 3/4 x 3 because this is mostly a proof of concept and learning project. You can use a table saw to do a decent approximation of what a planer or a jointer does by fixing the work pice to a sled. This worked kind of poorly for me, but that was my fault, and next time I'll do a better job. I spend a lot of time sanding out saw marks and never got a great result. Tamar uses a planer in this video for the first side, but I think you can see how you could do it just with a table saw, for small pieces. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWOB-WIDkOs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWOB-WIDkOs
    - huytersd 3y ago
      You could do maybe 3.5 inch pieces max on the table saw (blade height). Surely the front face of the drawer is bigger than that?
      - haroldp 3y ago
        That's exactly right. Only works for small pieces. My drawer is a pull-out tray type drawer that I am adding to a big cabinet.
wkjagt 3y ago
I spent weeks practicing dovetails with a Japanese pull saw until they fit just right. It was very satisfying. A kind of feeling I could never achieve writing code.
exe34 3y ago
I suppose also the table it rests on stays horizontal, the hands that hold it stay similar enough, and there's no subscription fees to the app store :-D
winrid 3y ago
Tell that to my grandfather, who at 73 is still adding onto his house that he built when he was like 20 :)
- andy_ppp 3y ago
  Houses are more like software projects than furniture.
  - winrid 3y ago
    He does mostly woodwork.
arrowsmith 3y ago
All three of your points are also things that I love about growing my own food. (Reason 4: it tastes better!)
boilerupnc 3y ago
This. These are the exact same reasons why I like the task of lawn mowing! There is a begin state and a clear finished state. The satisfaction of reaching “finished” cannot be overstated.
liendolucas 3y ago
Which is exactly the opposite of software development :-). I always liked woodworking and hope some time in the future to have my own space where I can start and build things as well. One drawback I been told many times is that you need a lot of tools and they are not cheap...
- avemg 3y ago
  It's not lost on me that those are the opposite of software engineering! >One drawback I been told many times is that you need a lot of tools and they are not cheap... There's truth to that. You will find no shortage of people in the woodworking community that insist that you can do woodworking with a couple of hand tools in a small space. I don't think they're necessarily wrong, but that's going to be a very limiting situation as far as projects go. Depending on your personality and wants, maybe that would work for you. But it's not for me. At a minimum I want floor space for a decent sized table saw and a workbench. Those are going to take up the most real estate among the core things. And yes, it's not a cheap hobby. If you buy used tools, you can save a lot. But you've also go to remember that lumber is pretty expensive too. You can save money on lumber by buying rough-sawn stock but then you need to spend some more money on tools to process it (a good investment once you've decided the hobby is one you want to stick with!)

by avemg 3y ago

haroldp 3y ago

Covered in sawdust right now from building a pull-out drawer for a kitchen cabinet. It came out square and the joints were tight enough to hold it together for the dry fit. Very satisfying. I am still mostly terrible at this. > It's tangible. This is the best part for me. Programming often reminds me of the "I sell air"[1] scene from City Slickers. The down side of this is that there's no undo. You have 300 operations to step through and if you mess one up you probably need to start over. > The techniques are hundreds/thousands of years old. Watching Clickspring recreate the Antikythera mechanism[2] has made it obvious to me that loads of secret knowledge was trapped in guilds and missing from the historical record as a result. You can do so much with basic hand tools. The down side is that there's so much temptation to buy expensive shit. Or worse, think you can't build anything because you don't have $15,000 worth of pro tools. I really needed a thickness planer on this project. > Every project has a definite end. So much. Fuck maintenance. No down side 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77xaqFyFET0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77xaqFyFET0 2. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZioPDnFPNsHnyxfygxA0to4RXv4_jDU2 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZioPDnFPNsHnyxfygxA0...

tharkun__ 3y ago
>> It's tangible. > You have 300 operations to step through and if you mess one up you probably need to start over. This, but ;) I really like that you don't have undo but you still don't have to start over. You have to learn how to build things and what to do when you inevitably eff up and how to cover it up! And then you go around the house and check how the builders/tradespeople covered up their mistakes or how they were simply never as perfect to begin with as you think you need to be. The difference being that unfortunately you will know forever where you effed up and even if you cover it up so that nobody will ever notice unless you tell them, you will be able to see it. I can still see the tile in the bathroom being siliconed in instead of grouted where we opened it up to allow access when re-piping the house vs. the regular grout even though objectively it's exactly the same color and even the texture is close enough. I siliconed it just in case because this was the second to last extra tile, so if we ever need to open it up again, I want to be able to just cut the silicone vs. destroying the tile like the contractor did to gain access the first time. Same when I do woodworking. I will always remember/see the gap that was too wide after I cut it incorrectly and filled it in with sawdust and glue from the exact same wood. I keep a bunch of containers w/ the different wood types' sawdust for just these cases.
- conductr 3y ago
  I like that it forces me to really be smart about planning out those 300 operations, plan around constraints like tool/material availability, and then sometimes even re-evaluate mid stream when you realize your plan was off a little
ajmurmann 3y ago
> The down side of this is that there's no undo. You have 300 operations to step through and if you mess one up you probably need to start over. This is why I love ceramics and wheel throwing in particular. It's relatively quick, but at any step something can go wrong, especially at my skill level. Sometimes you throw the same piece, apply the same glaze and it comes out quite different. It prevents you from getting too attached to any one piece and forces me towards a zen-like attitude. In some way it makes it even more a balanced to software engineering.
- mejutoco 3y ago
  I really like this aspect of ceramics. Plus, before the clay goes into the kiln and is glazed it can always be recycled, so no guilt.
  - ajmurmann 3y ago
    Yes, the recycling aspect really helps with how viable it is to not get attached to a piece till it's done.
coffeebeqn 3y ago
> You have 300 operations to step through and if you mess one up you probably need to start over. Only if you’re a perfectionist. You can always adjust the plan or do some annoying work with glueing. And usually it’s one part of a bigger thing that can be redone individually. Unless you’re sculpting a giant piece of wood like marble
wlesieutre 3y ago
> You have 300 operations to step through and if you mess one up you probably need to start over. I’ve heard a couple of people say that the #1 skill of master woodworkers is fixing mistakes. Keep at it and you (usually) won’t have to start over.
- bradly 3y ago
  I help teach woodworking and there is a lot of truth in this. There are very few mistakes in wood that cannot be fixed.
dajt 3y ago
I do 'model engineering' which is mostly metalwork, and it's about the same. You end up with something tangible but it really hurts when you make a mistake many hours into a part and have to scrap it and start again. Especially if it's not plain old steel, so just cost a lot. You do learn to save a part from some types of mistakes but it's not always possible. I think it's great that software lets you build castles in the air and mistakes generally only cost time, and fixes or improvements can be incremental but it does get old when many projects are scrapped before being used so you feel like you're just wasting time. I find the 'no undo' and a perfectionistic streak add immeasureably to the stress of my 'hobby' but now I have finally finished my steam loco after 10 years I do like looking at it and driving it.
- iAmAPencilYo 3y ago
  > ... I have finally finished my steam loco after 10 years I do like looking at it and driving it. That sounds fascinating! Could you share some more about your project?
  - fho 3y ago
    "Blondyhacks" on YouTube is currently in the process of build model steam locomotive. You might want to check that out.
    - Doxin 3y ago
      Or one of their previous projects if you'd like to binge start-to-finish.
  - dajt 3y ago
    It's about 1/11 scale of the real one, so the next size up from what Blondiehacks is building, and a bit more complicated and detailed. But essentially the same thing, a steam loco that runs on coal & water and works just like the real thing in every respect. See https://i.imgur.com/GuHR2j6.jpg https://i.imgur.com/GuHR2j6.jpg It can haul me and about 8 or 10 other people. It's a pretty popular hobby - look for live steam on YouTube.
- 3y ago
irrational 3y ago
Now I want to see a YouTube series where they show how to the same task with different tools. Here is how we use a planer. Now we will do the same thing using a router sled. Now the same thing with some hand planes. And so forth.
- jtuente 3y ago
  Jonathan Katz Moses, Stumpy Nubs, and The Wood Whisperer all have different videos like that. And then there's all kinds of channels that do pro, journeyman, novice builds of the same idea, sometimes as competition.
otikik 3y ago
> You have 300 operations to step through and if you mess one up you probably need to start over. As long as this is a hobby and not a job, you don't "need" to start over. If you mess up you got a lot of very useful scrap wood for the next project.
huytersd 3y ago
How did you build drawers without a planer or atleast a jointer? Did to buy pre surfaced wood or spend hours with a bench plane?
- haroldp 3y ago
  I actually built the frame from crappy construction 2x4s milled down to 3/4 x 3 because this is mostly a proof of concept and learning project. You can use a table saw to do a decent approximation of what a planer or a jointer does by fixing the work pice to a sled. This worked kind of poorly for me, but that was my fault, and next time I'll do a better job. I spend a lot of time sanding out saw marks and never got a great result. Tamar uses a planer in this video for the first side, but I think you can see how you could do it just with a table saw, for small pieces. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWOB-WIDkOs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWOB-WIDkOs
  - huytersd 3y ago
    You could do maybe 3.5 inch pieces max on the table saw (blade height). Surely the front face of the drawer is bigger than that?
    - haroldp 3y ago
      That's exactly right. Only works for small pieces. My drawer is a pull-out tray type drawer that I am adding to a big cabinet.

wkjagt 3y ago

I spent weeks practicing dovetails with a Japanese pull saw until they fit just right. It was very satisfying. A kind of feeling I could never achieve writing code.

exe34 3y ago

I suppose also the table it rests on stays horizontal, the hands that hold it stay similar enough, and there's no subscription fees to the app store :-D

winrid 3y ago

Tell that to my grandfather, who at 73 is still adding onto his house that he built when he was like 20 :)

andy_ppp 3y ago
Houses are more like software projects than furniture.
- winrid 3y ago
  He does mostly woodwork.

arrowsmith 3y ago

All three of your points are also things that I love about growing my own food. (Reason 4: it tastes better!)

boilerupnc 3y ago

This. These are the exact same reasons why I like the task of lawn mowing! There is a begin state and a clear finished state. The satisfaction of reaching “finished” cannot be overstated.

liendolucas 3y ago

Which is exactly the opposite of software development :-). I always liked woodworking and hope some time in the future to have my own space where I can start and build things as well. One drawback I been told many times is that you need a lot of tools and they are not cheap...

avemg 3y ago
It's not lost on me that those are the opposite of software engineering! >One drawback I been told many times is that you need a lot of tools and they are not cheap... There's truth to that. You will find no shortage of people in the woodworking community that insist that you can do woodworking with a couple of hand tools in a small space. I don't think they're necessarily wrong, but that's going to be a very limiting situation as far as projects go. Depending on your personality and wants, maybe that would work for you. But it's not for me. At a minimum I want floor space for a decent sized table saw and a workbench. Those are going to take up the most real estate among the core things. And yes, it's not a cheap hobby. If you buy used tools, you can save a lot. But you've also go to remember that lumber is pretty expensive too. You can save money on lumber by buying rough-sawn stock but then you need to spend some more money on tools to process it (a good investment once you've decided the hobby is one you want to stick with!)