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A French village that voted to ban scrolling in public
- dakial1 3y agoI bet those are the same people who fought against vaccinations rules during COVID...
- rldjbpin 3y agothis will only be enforcable in practice by the ones who voted for its favour.
- KayJay46 3y ago[flagged]
- andy99 3y agoBanning doesn't make sense. I'd be ok with a campaign to try and make it socially unacceptable, like smoking.
- _fat_santa 3y agoEh even then, if I'm sitting on a park bench smoking and you sit next to me, there's a certain measurable harm that you get because I'm smoking. But if I'm just scrolling HN on my phone? You can sit there and not be bothered at all.
- berkes 3y agoIf, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. Human contact, even with strangers, has a profound impact on health, mental state and quality of life. This has been researched and proven over and over. We are simply wired to function in social groups. Our current state of individualism is rather exceptional, and a cause for many issues with (mental) health. So, yes, you scrolling HN has an effect on my health, because the reverse is unfortunately true too: loneliness (and isolation etc) have a negative effect on humans
- vigilans 3y ago"If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve." You haven't talked to me :D
- polishdude20 3y agoYeah, it takes two people to talk and if I'm on my phone and someone starts talking to me, I'm more than willing to put it down and talk.
- JadeNB 3y ago> If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. I'm wholly in sympathy with the idea that public life would be better if we spent less of it on our phone, but counting every good deed left undone as a harm done is a very dangerous road to go down.
- berkes 3y agoFair point. I wasn't seeing it as a "good deed left undone" but as a normalized state that has been unbalanced by phones and individualism. That the norm is a place where humans talk, collaborate, and have deep connections in small social groups. The way humans have lived for millions of years. I guess looking at it from a more practical perspective of individualism being the norm from which we should break through good deeds, is a far more effective and realistic way. Thanks.
- giantrobot 3y ago> If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. Citation needed. The cohort that wants to talk to random strangers in my experience 1) significantly overvalue their opinions 2) seem unbothered by any behavior or body language saying "please leave me alone" and 3) are not nearly as interesting as they think. Just because I'm outdoors doesn't mean I signed up to be bothered by randos.
- krisoft 3y ago> If, instead of scrolling HN, you talked to me, both our lives would improve. It might be just my big city upbringing but the random people chatting me up in public almost always want something from me I would rather not give them. Most of them want my literal money. Either by scamming me or by just begging. Those who don’t usually want to tell me about their faith and try to get me converted. Not saying it is all interactions. Have a few positive ones too, but the wast majority is not. The reason I am very skeptical about talking with strangers is evidence based and has nothing to do with phones. In fact it predates smartphones by decades. The idea that baning phone usage is going to make people less lonely is in itself preposterous. If you see me on my phone in public most likely i’m talking with one of my friends. If you are feeling so lonely that you want to force me to interact with you instead of them, then maybe you are the one who has a problem? Like join a club, invite people over for some board games or volunteer.
- coldtea 3y agoI'd take second hand smoke over an unsociable society of human-zombies scrolling around in public.
- throwanem 3y agoAfter twenty years smoking and close to a decade quit I still can't smell it but want to light up one of my own. (I'd say 'bum one', but even so evanescent an unplanned interaction seems to take people the wrong way, these days...) I'd still call it the same way you would, if anyone gave me the chance. Wouldn't even have to think it over.
- standardUser 3y agoWhere do you live that you feel like you are surrounded by scrolling zombies?
- coldtea 3y agoIn Western Europe, but does it matter? Most modern cities would qualify...
- standardUser 3y agoI live in Manhattan and I would not describe the scene here as 'zombies on phones'. If there is noticeable anti-social trend here it would be headphones, not scrolling.
- ur-whale 3y ago> You can sit there and not be bothered at all. Radiations man, radiations!
- throw98989 3y ago> there's a certain measurable harm that you get because I'm smoking Do you really believe that? Do you actually believe you get a "measurable harm" due to a few minutes of so-called "second hand smoke"? Does ANYONE actually believe that? I'm not sure how people just buy into small memes and make no use of common sense, whatsoever.
- tmtvl 3y ago> Does ANYONE actually believe that? Yes: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/secondhand-smoke/health.html https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/secondhand-smoke/health.html
- throw98989 3y ago[flagged]
- sandgiant 3y agoSounds like it's more of a campaign than an actual ban. > It is not enforceable by police – officers could not stop or fine people scrolling in the street because there is no national law against smartphones – but the mayor describes it as an incitement to stop scrolling and guidance for limiting phone use.
- sandworm101 3y agoIt sounds silly on its face but these things can have impacts. Say that a store bans the use of phones. Is this ordinance a defense against a discrimination suite brought by someone kicked out while using a translation or vision app? The store would say that it was simply acting in support of a local ordinance.
- jeffbee 3y agoHaha you think smoking is socially unacceptable in France? By some measures it is more popular than ever.
- mijamo 3y agoI suppose "by some measure" means "by none whatsoever"? Tobacco sales are at lowest point for 50 years, and even occasional usage is close to 50y low. I remember when you couldn't go anywhere without smelling cold tobacco, even in trains and buses, not even talking about might clubs and restaurants... Now even outside many smokers are considerate and will avoid smoking in your direction, especially when you have kids, which was definitely not the case 20 years ago!
- jeffbee 3y agoBut among youth the prevalence of smoking is increasing again, even if they buy less tobacco. ETA: I guess you are objecting to my "worse than ever" characterization, and you are probably right, but it's shocking to drop into France where youth smoking is visibly more common than it was 15-25 years ago, mother-daughter smoking is a thing, young adult smoking might be only 40-50% but that's hard to differentiate from 100% and it's 10x higher than some other western nations so it seems crazy.
- dylan604 3y agoBut smoking is banned in certain places punishable by fines. So, why not publicly scrolling while walking down the street? You can't drive while distracted (ignoring the fact every dumbass does it), so why not make distracted walking punishable?
- seszett 3y agoThere's no particular reason not to do it, it's just that it's not in the power of a mayor, at least in France.
- arlort 3y agoThere is a law against smoking in certain places, a village can't put in place an equivalent law against this
- fhdkweig 3y agoWhen a pedestrian bumps into another, it isn't expensive property damage and potential death.
- playingalong 3y agoThere are countries this is banned.
- cscurmudgeon 3y agoWhat's next? Can't walk while drunk? Someone has to carry you on their shoulders? Banning thinking and daydreaming while walking? License for walking, lanes for walking and turn signals on your shoulders? For your safety.
- dylan604 3y agoi second the motion. i'd now like to move to the next item on the agenda and propose banning of smart phones followed by all social media.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
- thih9 3y ago> I'd be ok with a campaign to try and make it socially unacceptable, like smoking. Why though? I’m fine with shunning smokers - these directly affect the others in a negative way. Scrolling seems harmless to others; no reason for me to make it socially unacceptable.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- amadeuspagel 3y agoSmoking is also banned in many places.
- davidw 3y ago"Hear ye, hear ye ..." "Hello, sir, do you have a license for that scroll?" "No, I am but a crier here to announce..." "The rule is no unlicensed scrolling. We're going to have to take that scroll into custody"
- ysofunny 3y agoright now it's only the scrolls but I bet they're coming for the parchments later then the papers and finally the books! when does it end!!??
- mondobe 3y agoSoon they won't even let us use our smartphones!
- croisillon 3y agoit could lead to dancing!
- coffeebeqn 3y agoThis definitely screws over all the town olden times philosophers too.
- polishdude20 3y agoAnd the grey beard wizards who love to pour over them.
- jen20 3y agoPouring over them is almost certainly going to cause damage and be socially unacceptable!
- sandworm101 3y agoI'll believe it when I see a French court actually enforce this ordinance. It seems too vague and rights-limiting to be more than a publicity stunt. I also chuckle at a French government trying to encourage people to spend more time in public. Throughout history French governments have famously tried to keep people from taking to the streets. Most every revolt began with a conversation in a pub or coffee shop.
- bowsamic 3y agoRead the article, they say in it that they won't actually try to enforce it
- JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 3y agoBecause they can’t and because this "ban" is ridiculous.
- bowsamic 3y agoRight but it doesn't seem like their intent was to do so
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ZoomerCretin 3y agoBeing friendless has a higher negative impact on lifespan than smoking. It's not a big stretch to link phone use to the huge increase in depression, anxiety, and poor social skills. And just like smoking, phone use in public isn't limited to the person using it. You can't exactly have a conversation with someone who is on their phone. I find myself pulling my phone out whenever my companions also do so. If this seems a bit heavy-handed, it's because damaging and addictive habits require collective action to stop. No one walks down the street in San Francisco and tries to convince heroin addicts to stop for other peoples' good. No one tries to tell drunks and alcoholics to stop overdoing it. They are definitely early, and possibly the first place to do this, but they will surely not be the last. Our youth have been ruined by cheap, omnipresent, and never ending social media content. This is a step in the right direction to make public spaces social again.
- michaelmrose 3y agoStrangers out on the street are largely out doing something or going somewhere and are unlikely to want to strike up a conversation. People who are friendless ought to get a job, volunteer, get a hobby, join a group, go to a social space instead of expecting strangers to entertain them.
- throwanem 3y agoYeah, God forfend people should act human to one another, right?
- michaelmrose 3y agoYou aren't entitled to other people's time. You should try to earn it by doing something together with people that both enjoy. I volunteer at a cat shelter for instance. Feed some cats, play with the kittens then shoot the shit with the other volunteers.
- throwanem 3y agoI never understand where it comes from, this idea that an unplanned social interaction in public necessarily constitutes one person choosing to waste the time of others, or that no one ever has any choice but to let an unwelcome interaction persist indefinitely. It gives the impression of a somewhat socially impoverished style of life, but I assume that's no more accurate a perspective than anyone else's.
- NotYourLawyer 3y ago> The village has also approved a charter for families on children’s use of screens: no screens of any kind in the morning, no screens in bedrooms, no screens before bed or during meals. Yikes. Who actually wants the government regulating something like this?
- Narishma 3y agoThese are recommendations, not regulation.
- pharrington 3y agoThe villagers want it, and they have gotten it precisely at the scale of the village they live in. edit: moved the bulk of my comment upthread
- NotYourLawyer 3y agoSome of the busybodyest villagers want it, and they’re imposing their will on everyone else.
- wand3r 3y agoThis is an interesting idea: Voting on the norms of society even if not strictly enforceable. I would love a referendum on tipping in my American state. The proposed solution that at least 54% of this village have recognized is that the internet has really eroded societal bonds. The optimization of everything, coupled with the easy on-demand connection provided by phones is a big problem for society. It's like eating cake all the time, its easy and feels good in the moment but it will likely have negative societal impacts. I'll speak for America, but I am sure it isn't unique here. The optimization of everything to short term profit & loss coupled with phones has made society pretty unpleasant. - Grocery stores have removed handles from bags and most tellers. - Extremely uniform big box stores are primarily all that are left - Shopping is fully online - Workers have been reduced as much as possible to automata in low status jobs. - Due to the quality and quantity of data, of all goods are priced to the absolute max society can bear and wages are suppressed to the extent possible as well. - Connection with society is primarily done through a screen and id ephemeral I could go on. The point is that in concert, this has seriously changed our society even if any single change alone would be positive. Phones are simply a symptom of a society that is lonely and disconnected and a biological psychology that makes adaptation to this change hard/impossible. It's not neccesarily negative, but we will see how this shapes society when gen-z and gen alpha are in their 40s.
- nonrandomstring 3y agoInterestingly the article mentioned that some young people raised an objection that they had "nothing else to do" without their phones. In response the mayor promised new investment into sports, recreation, libraries and book sharing... In other words, there's more going on here than just the "phone ban", but a broader attempt to reconnect and rehumanise the village life. My concern is that even with the social and financial will to restore a more convivial lifestyle, those young people won't be able to engage. Having been raised by screens they are already so psychologically altered (damaged?) as to be lost. The assumption that life can "go back" may be misguided, and that makes this an experiment worth watching.
- rapind 3y agoI’m pretty sure (like 99%) that you can unlearn social media and phone bad habits if forced to with minimal fuss. Just go on a month long camping retreat (sans screens) and you’ll see how quickly we adapt.
- nonrandomstring 3y agoThe word "ban" is doing a lot of work here. As I read (and commented) earlier it's merely an informal decision by the village mayor that smombies are to be discouraged. The headmaster of a school who says no to phones probably has more clout. What amused me in that article was the kid who said he needed GPS to find his way around... in a village of 2000 people.
- hilbert42 3y agoFrom my perspective the ban has to be a plus. At least the mesmerized wouldn't be blindly walking across roads whilst glued to their screens and frightening the hell out of motorists who are trying to avoid them.
- forinti 3y agoI'm reminded of Robin William's French Siri impression: "You're in France, look around you. Walk down the block, you idiot".
- mtVessel 3y agoIs this how we use the term "scrolling" now? I mean, I get "doom scrolling", but now just bare "scrolling" connotes addictive attachment to social media on a mobile device? <sigh> Okay, fine.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- fingerlocks 3y agoThe “next” button on HN is way ahead of its time!
- Towaway69 3y agoGotta scroll down to find it ;)
- julienreszka 3y agoIt's a non-event only 200 people voted and no real sanctions.
- anonu 3y agoFifteen years ago I pulled out my point and shoot camera while on tourism in a random city in Turkey. I wanted to take a picture of a beautiful flower bush outside a shop. The shop keeper rushed out and scolded me not to take pictures and proceeded to tell me to appreciate the beauty with my eyes. The moment stuck with me. Of course he was right. But he was fighting a cultural tsunami.
- renewiltord 3y agoFrom the beginning of adulthood to about mid-20s I was a "live in the moment" kind of guy. Then I started taking photographs. The latter is a way better way for me to live life. Now, sometimes as I walk to my desk the photo display switches to a moment that brings me joy and memories. It's really wonderful. Big fan of photographs. And there's so much of Turkey I wouldn't remember without the photos. Good times good times.
- Kye 3y agoSame. I went to three days of a convention in 2016[0]. By the end, the whole thing was so vivid in my mind I could walk around it in my head and remember every little detail. Eight years later, blurs of shapes and colors and sounds are all I have without the photos I took and the words I wrote. Taking notes helps, but a photo captures all those details I don't think to note in the moment. [0] https://kyefox.com/2022/07/11/my-first-furry-convention/ https://kyefox.com/2022/07/11/my-first-furry-convention/
- standardUser 3y agoHe was not right. He was an asshole.
- pharrington 3y agoThis is the very definition of small government. Anything less is no government, and the only people who, after seriously thinking about it, seriously want no government, are organized criminals, extreme sociopaths, and extreme survivalists who are already living in isolation.
- seabass-labrax 3y agoI was tickled by this statement: "Those who might check their phone’s map when lost are instead being encouraged to ask for directions." Having Interrailed across northern Europe and travelled within a variety of cities without an internet-connected phone, I am now confident in declaring that the average local is terrible at giving directions! Attempt to ask how to get to the nearest metro station or bus stop, for instance, and each of the friendly residents you ask will direct you in an entirely different direction. Of course, you'll also get your fair share of unsolicited travel advice: in Brussels, I believe I have now heard more instructions for effective fare-dodging than I have actual directions! As a result of the typical denizen's questionable geography knowledge, I've now made sure I have a good offline map before embarking on any journey. If I know approximately which railway or bus lines I'll need to use, I'll download timetables for them as well. Of course, I could print out a dozen maps in advance - there's nothing inherently electronic about a map - but spurning maps entirely and asking for directions just won't cut the mustard!
- telesilla 3y agoI was at a very nice hotel recently in the countryside where car sharing apps don't work and the trains in that country are notorious for not arriving. I needed to get a train to a near town, a very very well known place and it was at least a 3-connection trip. The young person at the desk said, oh I don't take public transport (I guess they cycle everywhere and never leaves the area without their Mum?), and proceeded to start looking at Google Maps. Horrified, I said please find me someone here who knows how the transport works in the area. They didn't understand what I was asking so I walked away and figured it out myself (got a taxi to the nearest station with the busiest lines). I'm still surprised given how I can imagine how anyone lives in that area without taking a bus or train to get further afield.
- irrational 3y agoMaybe they had never been afield? I was once having dinner at a small restaurant in a village in northern Iceland. The server had impeccable English with an American accent. I got to talking to him and learned that he had never in his life (he was probably in his mid 20s) left his village. He had never even travelled to the nearest town/city.
- kragen 3y agoi think there are laws like this in north korea too i wonder if there used to be laws against reading books in public
- fnordpiglet 3y agoBefore smart phones came along I walked around reading a book. I carried one in my pocket at all times, and any moment I wasn’t forced to speak to someone I whipped it out and read. With the palm pilot I started reading project Gutenberg books on a device. With the iPhone I switched to kindle books. Antisocial does as antisocial does, and no right wing ban on it will prevent me from scrolling, whether it be on vellum, wood pulp, or oled.
- ur-whale 3y agoIf there's one thing the French are particularly gifted at, it's sticking the government's nose deep, deep where it strictly does not belong. Even more amazing: when that happens, no one seems to notice that a huge line has been crossed, because by now, they've been shafted that way so many times, it's just fairly normal. So sad.
- subroutine 3y agoIt would be funny to see a bunch of people huddled up in a designated phone-ers area outside a bar in January to satisfy their instagram addiction.
- binarymax 3y agoPretty much this exact scene was predicted by Ronnie Chang as a comedy bit. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BN6aUgMtAos https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BN6aUgMtAos
- henriquez 3y ago> young people say there’s little else to do They could ... read a book?
- onion2k 3y agoIt's considered rude to interrupt someone who's reading. Reading takes you out of a social situation. When someone is on their phone they're still present enough to talk to. They're very different activities.
- bigstrat2003 3y agoWhat? It's no more rude to interrupt someone reading than it is to interrupt someone messing around on their phone.
- amadeuspagel 3y agoMaybe banning headphones in public would be enough to encourage a sense of presence while still allowing people to look up directions.
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoNote that this is not enforceable. So it's not going to work, because they would not need it if people could gone without phone, and people who can't won't stio just because a bunch of other people will tell them it's better. Social pressure doesn't work with addicts. Espacially if said addict are to a tool that also makes some tasks 10 times faster.
- amelius 3y agoI'm betting this village will have the highest adoption rate of Apple Vision Pro helmets.