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High coffee consumption, brain volume and risk of dementia and stroke
- greesil 3y agoCaffeine does raise blood pressure. You also drink more of you don't sleep enough. Who knows.
- nomel 3y agoAnd, it significantly disrupts sleep if you drink it 6 hours before bedtime [1]. Poor sleep is linked to dementia [2] risk. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3805807/#:~:text=The%20results%20of%20this%20study,detrimental%20effects%20on%20daytime%20function https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3805807/#:~:tex.... [2] https://www.harvardpilgrim.org/hapiguide/understanding-the-connection-between-sleep-and-dementia/#:~:text=Researchers%20found%20that%20individuals%20who,to%20eight%20hours%20per%20night https://www.harvardpilgrim.org/hapiguide/understanding-the-c....
- nabla9 3y agoThe article is not claiming causal link, but this is still interesting. >After full covariate adjustment, consumption of >6 cups/day was associated with 53% higher odds of dementia compared to consumption of 1–2 cups/day Coffee is stimulant just like some Alzheimer medications used to treat symptoms. It would be interesting to see if people increase coffee consumption with cognitive decline.
- llamaLord 3y agoConsidering the very early effects of dementia start to impact people sometimes decades before it becomes bad enough that they are diagnosed, it's certainly possible that extreme coffee consumption is some kind of self-medication mechanism. Anecdotally, I've seen this a lot with adults with undiagnosed ADHD (including myself until 26). Caffeine can be a (very shitty) alternative to proper stimulant medication that people don't realise they actually need because of a medical issue. So the end up drinking 4-5 coffees a day instead.
- doubled112 3y agoI've been accused of self medicating with coffee before by a guy who was diagnosed with ADHD in his 40s. It was funny at first, but then he started pointing things out. Want to ride bikes? We can get coffee on our travels. I jest, kind of.
- whizzter 3y agoNot far fetched at all, seems there's been studies showing a correlation between ADHD and Dementia between genrations. A big question for me is if the ADHD was always even in the older generations there but was non-diagnosed? https://news.ki.se/link-between-adhd-and-dementia-across-generations https://news.ki.se/link-between-adhd-and-dementia-across-gen...
- jijijijij 3y ago> A big question for me is if the ADHD was always even in the older generations there but was non-diagnosed? Also could the absence of treatment be causal? Undiagnosed people suffer immensely trying to cope and adapt to a neurotypical life. Depression and anxiety disorders are commonly found as comorbidities. The above-normal stress default by itself could probably explain all sorts of aging associated disease and symptoms, I presume. Then you typically find issues with sleep, regular food and water intake ... And yeah, in context, people with undiagnosed ADHD are much, much more likely to abuse drugs, or "self-medicate". Especially smoking and coffee.
- JohnBooty 3y agoEverything was diagnosed far less often in older generations, right?
- klyrs 3y agoNot so! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria
- terramoto 3y agoWasnt this study made in the UK where most people lack vitamin D, which is also associated with dementia and depression?
- lr4444lr 3y agoI'm wagering that these people are just chronically under-slept, using higher amounts of coffee to compensate. The link between chronic poor sleep and dementia is well established.
- hiq 3y agoDoesn't coffee impact sleep quality as well? At 6 cups a day, I'd expect some caffeine left in the body when sleeping.
- datavirtue 3y agoTwelve hours to metabolize. The six cup people are totally jacked.
- getwiththeprog 3y agoHalf-life of six hours, so after twelve hours, one quarter of the caffiene will still be in the blood.
- elzbardico 3y agoTolerance kicks in. I can drink a double espresso after a dinner and still sleep like an angel.
- hattmall 3y agoPerhaps, but do you really know if and how much REM sleep you are getting? I've seen some things that link dementia more specifically to quality of sleep and REM time.
- ViktorRay 3y agoCaffeine consumption does lead to poor sleep. Makes sense then that lots of coffee would lead to many nights of low quality sleep thereby increasing the risk of all sorts of bad health outcomes
- daniel_reetz 3y agoThat is interesting. I wonder if it's simply the cadmium and lead found in coffee concentrate in heavy users.
- eurleif 3y agoAnother potential causal mechanism might be that people in cognitive decline have their "daily cup of coffee", forget they've already had it, and then have another.
- dusted 3y agoI was thinking the same, it's very interesting which way the arrow points. Am I saying that because I drink an enormous amount of coffee and really don't want to stop? Yes. But also.. because I hope my high coffee drinking is because of my vanishing brain, rather than the cause of it ;)
- m463 3y agoI've also read, several places, that sleep deprivation correlates very highly with alzheimers. People with trouble sleeping tend to be people with trouble staying awake. And those people generally reach for coffee. there's also the reverse, coffee interfering with sleep as well. EDIT: add a link: https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/sleep-well-and-reduce-your-risk-of-dementia-and-death-2021050322508 https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/sleep-well-and-reduce-yo...
- owlstuffing 3y ago> consumption of >6 cups/day was associated with 53% higher odds of dementia compared to consumption of 1–2 cups/day (fully adjusted OR 1.53, 95% CI 1.28, 1.83) 6+ cups! That’s a cranial marinade.
- doubled112 3y agoMy mom, both of my sisters and I drink it by the pot. Each of us, every day. 6 cups? That doesn't sound like enough coffee to me.
- op00to 3y agoI can’t even drink a single cup of coffee without shaking and getting intense anxiety.
- doubled112 3y agoPerhaps someday we'll discover a coffee tolerance gene.
- xcv123 3y agoThe gene is called CYP1A2 with two variants. One variant is a rapid caffeine metabolizer. The other is a slow caffeine metabolizer. https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/liver-detox-genes-cyp1a2/ https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/liver-detox-genes-cyp1a2/ I have the rapid variant but could not sleep well on 6 cups.
- JonChesterfield 3y agoThat is interesting information. I note that the same enzyme breaks down melatonin. If a variant that is particularly efficient at caffeine is also particularly efficient at breaking down melatonin, the symptom would be difficulty getting to sleep independent of amount of caffeine, which is totally fixed by taking melatonin tablets.
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- elzbardico 3y agoI remember the late 90's where simple banners were hated with passion. If we only knew...
- jokethrowaway 3y agoCome on, it was fine until 2015
- mattigames 3y agoThe anger caused by such idiocy incrases the risk of headaches and strokes.
- mwigdahl 3y agoIt would be interesting to see comparisons to tea and decaf coffee, correcting for the amount of caffeine in those beverages. They seem to be assuming caffeine is the causal agent here, in which case there should be detectable parallels with other caffeinated beverages.
- sgt101 3y agoThe lack of a result for stroke tells me that this is just a fishing expedition.
- touwer 3y agoA cup of coffee can be something very different from person to person and situation to situation. Espresso? Weak americano? Strong? And then even: there is often more caffeine in a cup of filter coffee than in an espresso. Weird but true. So it differs quite a lot what you drink. I know someone who drinks 15 cups a day, but they are very very weak. And another drank 20 stong ones a day. Myself I used to drink 10 easily, not anymore
- neither_color 3y agoEven the same volume(cup) of coffee brewed the exact same way will vary in caffeine content based on whether it's a light or a dark roast. I wish more studies like this would just list mg of caffeine for comparison instead.
- ACV001 3y agoPDF download + Online access 48 hours access to article PDF & online version Article PDF can be downloaded Article PDF can be printed GBP 48.00 --- About the subject, could be indeed that people with early dementia, have sleep deprivation so they need more coffee...
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- jxy 3y agoI can't access the article. Can somebody tell me what is "a cup" mentioned in the article? How much water and how much caffeine is in one "cup" in this article? All the comments here mentions different number of "cups", but I'm very worried that all are different "cups"
- Mathnerd314 3y agoI've looked for this, the BioBank screen is this: https://biobank.ndph.ox.ac.uk/showcase/refer.cgi?id=100319 https://biobank.ndph.ox.ac.uk/showcase/refer.cgi?id=100319 There is literally no guidance AFAICT. My best estimate is 8 US fl oz as per ChatGPT British still use cups to refer to that sometimes. And caffeine... it varies even from cup to cup, the estimate of 91mg per 8 oz cup is what I use.
- Kirby64 3y agoPer the article, "Habitual coffee intake was self-reported as cups per day, as part of the touchscreen questionnaire at base line with the question ‘How many cups of coffee do you drink a day?’ " Sounds like it's based on the colloquial definition, which means... who knows! Self-reported values are very non-specific, since my definition of a 'cup' could mean a 24oz with an added triple shot... or it could mean a weakly brewed cup of instant coffee.
- stubish 3y agoIt will average out, so we will need to ask a British person what size an average cup of coffee is.
- d1sxeyes 3y agoBrit here, an average cup of coffee would be around 1 heaped tsp of instant coffee in a 300ml mug with a bit of breathing room, say 275ml? But that would include the milk, so maybe around 200ml water and 75ml of milk. Would vary quite a lot from person to person though.
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- drtournier 3y agoCoffee and tobacco consumption is a known correlation (one of many refs https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4158991/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4158991/). Curious to see if authors considered that, as tobacco is one of the main aggressors of vascular tissue, which causes dementia in the long run. EDIT 1: Just in time, UK Biobank (almost 500.000 people) study pointing to increased longevity with coffee consumers, an interesting controversy that just doesn't fit with their smaller study conclusion (although overall longevity is a different outcome, you would expect to find more dementia in older people) https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/coffee-longer-life/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/coffee-lo...
- hattmall 3y agoIs it to tobacco because of nicotine? Or would things like nicotine gum and lozenges not count. I thought I recalled nicotine potentially being neuroprotective wrt dementia.
- everdrive 3y agoIs this just related to caffeine, or coffee in general? I drink a LOT of decaf, which probably ends up being 2-4 cups of "real" coffee.
- JonChesterfield 3y agoStupid publishing model from the dark ages https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/126392/FINAL_AcceptedManuscript_NNS.pdf https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/1...
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y agoCould coffee be a proxy for a high-stress, mentally-taxing, low-sleep-quality lifestyle? How did they take their coffee? With lots of sugar?
- nunez 3y agoI switched over to fully decaf coffee earlier this year. One of the coffee roasters nearby me highlighted their decaf single origin and thought to try it on a whim one day. It was so good, I stopped drinking decaf coffee that day and bought three bags of the stuff. It's been two months since I did this. The biggest benefit I've noticed was feeling how insanely tired I am. Fortunately, I've been working on that problem, but damn, coffee really covers up sleep deprivation well.
- zingelshuher 3y ago> I switched over to fully decaf coffee earlier this year. You may want to rethink. >The association between coffee consumption and dementia was.. > with evidence for higher odds for non-coffee and decaffeinated coffee drinkers and those drinking >6 cups/day, compared to light coffee drinkers.
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- robg 3y agoNot controlled for: Heavy caffeine consumption affects sleep, and sleep quality is correlated with cognitive declines.
- adamredwoods 3y agoMore and more of these "studies" are popping up, using the UK health database to make hypothesis to what we eat or drink, without really diving into the "why". I know it's a nice first step for more thorough research proposals, but I think they tend to freak people out.
- cjbenedikt 3y agoJust had another coffee...darn, forgot what I wanted to write ;-)
- b0dhimind 3y agoStill experimenting with about ~20mg of coffee every other day. Great as part of my pre-workout (as indicated by Huberman's podcast) especially with fats. If I don't add the fats, I definitely feel the edginess and jitteriness... I don't really need it though, wondering if I'm better off just avoiding it? Heard of many other longevity and neural benefits... something I was expecting in this pretty empty study. Self-experimenting continues...
- hattmall 3y agoWell even this study shows reduced risk with moderate consumption compared to the 0 or the 6+ group.
- mantra2 3y agoI drink about 8-10 cups of black coffee a day, which is what my brewer makes. I don’t have any issues with sleep but I don’t feel any sort of boost from it, I just enjoy the way it tastes. I’m curious how consistent this can be seeing as coffee can be made so differently. I know the coffee I make at home is incredibly weak compared to what you’d get at a cafe. I use about 2-3 tablespoons of freshly ground beans for those 10 cups. Starbucks tastes like they use double that for a cup. I can’t imagine I consumed that much coffee despite the large number of “cups”.
- dewert 3y agoSorry, I have to get clarification - do you use 2-3 tbsp per cup, as in 20-30 tbsp for the pot, or 2-3 tbsp for the whole pot? The one sounds like normal coffee, while the other would almost be water in my books.
- mantra2 3y agoI use 2-3, maybe 4 for the 8 cup brewer. I drink it weak. lol
- notaharvardmba 3y ago“Cups” as in “coffee maker cups”, ~4oz per “cup”, vs cups as in measuring cups (8 oz)
- mantra2 3y ago1.3 Liters, so I guess they’re considering a cup in my 8 cup brewer as 5oz.
- NoPedantsThanks 3y agoSo the takeaway is that more than zero but fewer than six cups is better than none or greater than six cups? We need to know whether this means real cups for the bullshit "cups" commonly used to measure coffee were used in the study.
- lawgimenez 3y agoJust had Death Wish coffee for the first time. This is gonna be interesting.
- Arch-TK 3y agoSo my habit of putting in a lot of effort to prepare 1 or 2 cups of coffee per day puts me at the local minima for risk of dementia and stroke? Excellent. Now, while gloating about how this study matches up with my own biases, I would like to take a moment to remind everyone: This is a single study, ignore it, wait for a meta analysis and then ask your local expert in that specific field to interpret it for you. Or, better yet, wait for a book covering a number of meta-analyses. Single studies are not helpful for general consumption!!!
- benjijay 3y agoShould I consume 1-2 meta-analyses per day, and is there any risk associated if that number increases to 5+?
- Teamancer 3y agoDid a Find on the word "exercise" in the article and comments. Result: Not Found.
- troydavis 3y agoFull text: https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/126392/FINAL_AcceptedManuscript_NNS.pdf https://ore.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10871/1...