8 ms·

Taylor Swift threatens legal action against student who tracks her jet

65 points by exitb 3y ago

mikece 3y ago
Pretty sure they would need to prove an intent to stalk and harass as opposed to being aviation enthusiasts. If Taylor doesn't like it there are a number of ways to avoid being tracked, and the cost to avoid tracking would be a rounding error in computing her daily expenses.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > If Taylor doesn't like it there are a number of ways to avoid being tracked, and the cost to avoid tracking would be a rounding error in computing her daily expenses. Is that true? I assumed not, because otherwise these celebrities would be doing it. How would it be done?
  - obmelvin 3y ago
    There are a number of ways to avoid being tracked [1], and interestingly the Vox or NYT podcast where I heard about them indicated that Swift was in the program(s). Based on this quote from the article, it does seem that there are ways to still get the data, "Many private owners signed up for the Limited Aircraft Display Data (LADD) program, but sources that don’t use FAA data aren’t obligated to obey those restrictions and can still publish the information emitted from a jet’s transponder." [1] - https://robbreport.com/motors/aviation/how-airliners-keep-private-flights-safe-1234797613/ https://robbreport.com/motors/aviation/how-airliners-keep-pr...
  - chihuahua 3y ago
    Fractional jet ownership. Something like NetJets.
    - wolverine876 3y ago
      Swift's utilization of the aircraft probably approaches 100%. How could she share it?
      - chihuahua 3y ago
        NetJets has a large fleet of aircraft similar to those that are typically used as private jets. You pay to use some of the fleet like a taxi. Whenever you take a flight, you are the only party on the flight. If you take a lot of flights, you pay more. But you don't own any of the jets, so it can't be tracked as easily as a jet that you own.
    - tzs 3y ago
      OT: On FlightAware most of the time all the plane icons are the same color. But sometimes I'll see a plane of a different color, and every time I've seen that it has been a NetJets flight. When I then zoom out it appears that every NetJets flight is getting that special color. NetJets are usually the same color as all the others. So it appears that FlightAware for some reason just occasionally decides to highlight NetJets. Anyone happen to know why? And is it really only NetJets, or have I just not happened to be looking when they highlighted something else?
lofaszvanitt 3y ago
[flagged]
zeroCalories 3y ago
Damn bro, now my favorite billionaire is getting tracked xd
fatnoah 3y ago
Barbara Streisand has entered the chat.
babelthuap 3y ago
[dead]
moomin 3y ago
I remember Elon Musk complaining about this, frankly near trivial application of open source intelligence.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJUl3OAIT0k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJUl3OAIT0k And the code: https://github.com/Jxck-S/plane-notify https://github.com/Jxck-S/plane-notify
- riffic 3y ago
  It's plausibly the reason he burned $44B on Twitter, Inc.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    I doubt it, $44B would have bought quite a few Gulfstreams - at $80m a pop he could have bought 550 of them and have them fly randomly around.
    - travisjungroth 3y ago
      Well he didn’t think he was burning the money when he bought Twitter.
    - melagonster 3y ago
      He looked very hates this. but he have enough money to make this impossible, interesting.
- dmix 3y ago
  Famous people face repeated serious threats and become paranoid. They probably have hired security firms that find this stuff online and freak out, or get into the ear of the client, and then try to 'fix' it even if it's not 100% realistic.
justrealist 3y ago
Will be interesting to see how the media plays this, given the pretty unforgiving coverage of Elon Musk complaining about the same thing.
- ilikehurdles 3y ago
  It will be interesting, and entirely predictable as she’ll be treated like the media darling she has been.
- gopher2000 3y ago
  This was also while Elon was spewing that he was a "free speech absolutist" yet was kicking very specific accounts off Twitter. So the hypocrisy was a little different.
  - nick238 3y ago
    What does "free speech absolutist" even mean? Shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre is OK? Lying while under oath is not perjury? Distributing CSM? Going to a public playground and shouting expletives?
    - stackedinserter 3y ago
      Free speech means that you can't be prosecuted or punished for having and expressing an opinion. Simple, easy to remember.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
- dudul 3y ago
  Came here to say the same thing :) Very curious to see how the coverage will compare.
- add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
  She's not an asshole (publicly, anyway) so I would imagine she doesn't have people (in the mainstream) waiting to pounce on her for fragility and hypocrisy. Well the latter wouldn't apply to her the way it did with Musk, anyway. It's silly to pretend this is an issue people have strong opinions about in a vaccuum, divorced from how they feel about the subject. Which is another way of saying it's one of those things that doesn't deserve to be news, it just happens to involve a celebrity.
sklargh 3y ago
On a practical note if privacy and security is so important to Swift she could easily use a fractional program to rotate tail and serial numbers. Not sure why I find this so grating but the idea that an aircraft using the public commons, funded by taxpayers, as an anonymous medium that conceals their immense wealth sort of strikes me as the equivalent of someone saying “my Benz doesn’t need license plates because I’m really really rich.”
- bombcar 3y ago
  > “my Benz doesn’t need license plates because I’m really really rich.” Reminds me of Job's trick around that - https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/steve-jobs-car-apple-ceo-license-plates/story?id=14834608 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/steve-jobs-car-apple-ceo-l... (and probably what you're referring to). The rich will always have ways of throwing money at annoyances that us poors do not have; and we will always laugh at them for it.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - adolph 3y ago
    Another perk: https://www.folklore.org/Handicapped.html https://www.folklore.org/Handicapped.html A few hours later, I found out that Apple's other cofounder, Steve Wozniak, who was a prolific prankster, called up the Cupertino police and reported that a silver Mercedes was illegally parked in a handicapped space and told them the person reporting it was Andy Hertzfeld, giving them my phone number at work.
  - beembeem 3y ago
    Isn't it now two weeks not six months?
- CptnFluffyTail 3y ago
  The Privacy ICAO Address Program. You get a temporary ICAO addresses to broadcast which are not associated with the Civil Aircraft Registry and a third-party callsign. Only works in US airspace is my understanding though. The Limiting Aircraft Data Displayed (LADD) program from the FAA only filters what gets shown in data feeds from the FAA. Something like ADS-B which gets the actual live data from the aircraft is unfiltered. https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy
theideaofcoffee 3y ago
Hey Tay, just Shake It Off. Really. You have no expectation of privacy using public airspace. If you don't want to be tracked, you probably shouldn't be traveling in a flying machine emblazoned with registration marks. Maybe try the train. Edit: now that I think about it for more than sixteen seconds, couldn't that be a marketing opportunity in disguise (as if her act needs more marketing)? "Know when she flies over your house! Get a selfie with the contrail in the background! Most likes on a tiktok gets a personal response saying thanks for thinking of me!"
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- alvarezbjm-hn 3y ago
  "You have no expectation of privacy using public airspace" Replace airspace with "space". Public figure in a public space. They always want the perks without the cost. Now, not being harrased is another thing. But not being noticed? (Specially in an airplane) Haters gonna hate. Epilogue: Yes, any publicity is publicity. I am even considering her AI releases, and the acompaning complains, a public stunt.
  - add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
    > I am even considering her AI releases, and the acompaning complains, a public stunt. What does this mean? Do you mean that she arranged for AI porn of herself to be released?
    - toastgrave 3y ago
      Taylor haters have gone absolutely nuts lately but that idea may be the craziest I've ever heard
    - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
      "I am the absolute height of my fame and power, time to.... release a fake sex tape?" Isn't that how you turn from a C-lister to a B-lister, not something you do when you're already at the top of the pile?
mtreis86 3y ago
EFF involved? FCC? Scanning for ADB with an RTL SDR is very legal. Sharing that data is also very legal
- kube-system 3y ago
  Sending letters asking people not to do something is also very legal. Also, stalking and/or laws are entirely unrelated to whether or not ADSB data is legally collected. It's a different issue entirely. It's legal to look in a phone book, but that doesn't mean you can't harass someone over the phone.
seanhunter 3y ago
Not a fan or an apologist for private jet travel but I would say she has reasonable couse to be fearful of her safety. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/taylor-swift-stalker-texas-prison-sentence-jail-b464145.html https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/... for example
- henryaj 3y ago
  What's the safety angle? Presumably her potential stalkers are unlikely to have access to surface-to-air missiles.
  - seanhunter 3y ago
    They will know where she is going to so they can plan to get there. Not saying that's justification for the action against the tracker.
    - Glant 3y ago
      She very kindly types up when and where she plans on being and publishes it on her website, but I guess that's not a security issue because it makes her money.
    - autoexec 3y ago
      > They will know where she is going to so they can plan to get there. Let's say that they do and they even manage to show up at LAX 20 minutes before her plane lands. Now what? Honestly. It's not as if they can just hang around at the baggage claim and find her there. What do you think they can do now? Surround the entire airport and stop every single vehicle from leaving until they find the one with her in it?
jbombadil 3y ago
https://archive.vn/1TxKB https://archive.vn/1TxKB
prh8 3y ago
There's a whole demographic of people that stalk and threaten her, and now a political party and a news platform that are pushing a narrative of war with her to their irrational followers who have shown they are willing to act violently and criminally. And unsurprisingly, the comments here predictably sound similar to that group. Personal safety is a perfectly reasonable concern to have.
AlbertCory 3y ago
Bill Murray said that when people claim they want to be rich and famous: I always want to say to people who want to be rich and famous: 'try being rich first'. See if that doesn't cover most of it. There's not much downside to being rich, other than paying taxes and having your relatives ask you for money. But when you become famous, you end up with a 24-hour job. https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/bill_murray_411631 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/bill_murray_411631 As someone else here said, she could fly on different (unknown) people's private jets, or a private jet service's. Oh, but then it wouldn't be tricked out exactly the way she wants it. Tiny violins.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  As a professional who flies much of her life, ad hoc arrangements would be insufficient. You can't have the overhead and stress of figuring out and adjusting to something new every day. She lives on the road (much of the time) - it's her home, effectively. It's not a vacation or a business trip.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    AFAIK she has a paid staff to do all that for her. As I said: tiny violins.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    > You can't have the overhead and stress of figuring out and adjusting to something new every day. you mean like literally everyone else who doesn't own a private jet does? Anyone who can afford a private jet can easily afford to hire someone else to figure out the details and make the needed travel arrangements for them.
    - AlbertCory 3y ago
      The staff person could even hold the "feels like Taylor's home" kit and pre-install it on any private jet she flies on. They could even pay for multiple jets take off from wherever she is, so people can't tell which one she's on.
wolverine876 3y ago
As a technical solution: Could the identifier be per flight and anonymous, rather than having ID be per plane, with the owner/user published (where?)? Would that meet other needs? The FAA could have a database connecting flight IDs with (confidential) plane IDs.
- GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
  They already have a Privacy IACO aircraft address, you file some paperwork to the FAA, and you can rotate your aircraft's identifier every 60 days [1]. However this is only for domestic flights, and wouldn't work when flying out of or into the United States. [1] - https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy
gtmitchell 3y ago
Honestly, I think anything that brings more attention to the stupendously wasteful travel habits of wealthy individuals such as celebrities and politicians is a public good and should be encouraged. Ms. Swift has essentially unlimited resources to protect her privacy, so perhaps she should choose a method of transportation that doesn't involve broadcasting ADS-B information across the continent as she travels.
cynicalsecurity 3y ago
That's the part of being a world class pop star.
karaterobot 3y ago
In situations like this, I always wonder why you start with a threatening letter from the lawyers, and not just a phone call between the two parties, where one of them would say "hey look, I know you can do this, but it makes me scared for my safety—I think you can understand why—and I really hope you'd consider not doing it". Start from that, rather than just going straight to threats. You can always be a dick later, try being a human first. That said, I'm actually on her side here. I don't like being tracked on the internet, and I do everything I can to avoid it. I can't imagine someone following me around, and me being persuaded by the argument that I'm in a public space, so I have no expectation of privacy. As far as I know, there isn't another option except to be in the public space if I want to get somewhere. And I think people who track other people because they can, and you can't stop me are in many ways worse than people whose motives are entirely venal. Just act like grown-up, civilized human beings.
- autoexec 3y ago
  > You can always be a dick later, try being a human first. This I agree with. > I don't like being tracked on the internet, and I do everything I can to avoid it. That's the difference. Swift could avoid being tracked by plane too, but she doesn't want to because it would mean she'd lose the advantage of having her own private jet. The price of having a private jet is having your travels tracked. There are a lot of benefits to fame, and a lot of downsides. You take the good with the bad. In the case, the bad is that people are going to know and complain about how wasteful and bad for the environment her air travel is. Tweeting about where a public figure's private plan goes doesn't even come close to the levels of obnoxiousness that paparazzi rise to. > As far as I know, there isn't another option except to be in the public space if I want to get somewhere. And you have no expectation of privacy in public, which is why you are already tracked and recorded every time you step outside no matter where you go just like I am. Neither of us have the kind of money and resources to protect ourselves that celebrities do either.
djha-skin 3y ago
Letter from her legal that's not behind a paywall: https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwiftJets/comments/1akbw3d/see_the_attached_letter/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwiftJets/comments/1akbw3d/se...
burkaman 3y ago
> The December letter from Swift’s attorney states that Sweeney’s actions are “in violation of several state laws” but does not specify them. The letter does, however, cite nine anonymous Instagram comments
- dmitrygr 3y ago
  State laws do not generally apply to flying. Airspace is controlled by the FAA.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    Presumably Sweeney’s actions took place on ground.
robbyiq999 3y ago
...meanwhile, the fbi (or any agency, dhs etc) has access to everyone's pinpoint location via third party data brokers. yet here we are, arguing for the anonymity of a JET OWNED AND USED BY A CELEBRITY
- robbyiq999 3y ago
  I should probably add, this is not a dig on Taylor Swift.
WesolyKubeczek 3y ago
> The pop star has routinely faced stalkers showing up outside her homes As a child raised in a Soviet, and then ex-Soviet country, my precious belly fat is boiling with (maybe baseless) rage. Homes. Plural. She should contract Musk to build her a hyperloop network between them all and play whack-a-mole with the alleged stalkers. With the added benefit that media won't shut up about for another decade. Who knows, might also be cheaper than all those attorneys on retainer.
jasomill 3y ago
While I strongly oppose the tactic of threatening legal action against someone aggregating legally acquired information, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for Swift and others to lobby for an aircraft registration system that improved owner privacy without compromising safety, and would even support such measures, so long as implementation costs are borne by the owners in question.

65 points by exitb 3y ago

Pretty sure they would need to prove an intent to stalk and harass as opposed to being aviation enthusiasts. If Taylor doesn't like it there are a number of ways to avoid being tracked, and the cost to avoid tracking would be a rounding error in computing her daily expenses.

wolverine876 3y ago
> If Taylor doesn't like it there are a number of ways to avoid being tracked, and the cost to avoid tracking would be a rounding error in computing her daily expenses. Is that true? I assumed not, because otherwise these celebrities would be doing it. How would it be done?
- obmelvin 3y ago
  There are a number of ways to avoid being tracked [1], and interestingly the Vox or NYT podcast where I heard about them indicated that Swift was in the program(s). Based on this quote from the article, it does seem that there are ways to still get the data, "Many private owners signed up for the Limited Aircraft Display Data (LADD) program, but sources that don’t use FAA data aren’t obligated to obey those restrictions and can still publish the information emitted from a jet’s transponder." [1] - https://robbreport.com/motors/aviation/how-airliners-keep-private-flights-safe-1234797613/ https://robbreport.com/motors/aviation/how-airliners-keep-pr...
- chihuahua 3y ago
  Fractional jet ownership. Something like NetJets.
  - wolverine876 3y ago
    Swift's utilization of the aircraft probably approaches 100%. How could she share it?
    - chihuahua 3y ago
      NetJets has a large fleet of aircraft similar to those that are typically used as private jets. You pay to use some of the fleet like a taxi. Whenever you take a flight, you are the only party on the flight. If you take a lot of flights, you pay more. But you don't own any of the jets, so it can't be tracked as easily as a jet that you own.
  - tzs 3y ago
    OT: On FlightAware most of the time all the plane icons are the same color. But sometimes I'll see a plane of a different color, and every time I've seen that it has been a NetJets flight. When I then zoom out it appears that every NetJets flight is getting that special color. NetJets are usually the same color as all the others. So it appears that FlightAware for some reason just occasionally decides to highlight NetJets. Anyone happen to know why? And is it really only NetJets, or have I just not happened to be looking when they highlighted something else?

lofaszvanitt 3y ago

[flagged]

zeroCalories 3y ago

Damn bro, now my favorite billionaire is getting tracked xd

fatnoah 3y ago

Barbara Streisand has entered the chat.

babelthuap 3y ago

[dead]

moomin 3y ago

I remember Elon Musk complaining about this, frankly near trivial application of open source intelligence.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJUl3OAIT0k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJUl3OAIT0k And the code: https://github.com/Jxck-S/plane-notify https://github.com/Jxck-S/plane-notify
riffic 3y ago
It's plausibly the reason he burned $44B on Twitter, Inc.
- bombcar 3y ago
  I doubt it, $44B would have bought quite a few Gulfstreams - at $80m a pop he could have bought 550 of them and have them fly randomly around.
  - travisjungroth 3y ago
    Well he didn’t think he was burning the money when he bought Twitter.
  - melagonster 3y ago
    He looked very hates this. but he have enough money to make this impossible, interesting.
dmix 3y ago
Famous people face repeated serious threats and become paranoid. They probably have hired security firms that find this stuff online and freak out, or get into the ear of the client, and then try to 'fix' it even if it's not 100% realistic.

justrealist 3y ago

Will be interesting to see how the media plays this, given the pretty unforgiving coverage of Elon Musk complaining about the same thing.

ilikehurdles 3y ago
It will be interesting, and entirely predictable as she’ll be treated like the media darling she has been.
gopher2000 3y ago
This was also while Elon was spewing that he was a "free speech absolutist" yet was kicking very specific accounts off Twitter. So the hypocrisy was a little different.
- nick238 3y ago
  What does "free speech absolutist" even mean? Shouting 'fire' in a crowded theatre is OK? Lying while under oath is not perjury? Distributing CSM? Going to a public playground and shouting expletives?
  - stackedinserter 3y ago
    Free speech means that you can't be prosecuted or punished for having and expressing an opinion. Simple, easy to remember.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
dudul 3y ago
Came here to say the same thing :) Very curious to see how the coverage will compare.
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
She's not an asshole (publicly, anyway) so I would imagine she doesn't have people (in the mainstream) waiting to pounce on her for fragility and hypocrisy. Well the latter wouldn't apply to her the way it did with Musk, anyway. It's silly to pretend this is an issue people have strong opinions about in a vaccuum, divorced from how they feel about the subject. Which is another way of saying it's one of those things that doesn't deserve to be news, it just happens to involve a celebrity.

sklargh 3y ago

On a practical note if privacy and security is so important to Swift she could easily use a fractional program to rotate tail and serial numbers. Not sure why I find this so grating but the idea that an aircraft using the public commons, funded by taxpayers, as an anonymous medium that conceals their immense wealth sort of strikes me as the equivalent of someone saying “my Benz doesn’t need license plates because I’m really really rich.”

bombcar 3y ago
> “my Benz doesn’t need license plates because I’m really really rich.” Reminds me of Job's trick around that - https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/steve-jobs-car-apple-ceo-license-plates/story?id=14834608 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/steve-jobs-car-apple-ceo-l... (and probably what you're referring to). The rich will always have ways of throwing money at annoyances that us poors do not have; and we will always laugh at them for it.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- adolph 3y ago
  Another perk: https://www.folklore.org/Handicapped.html https://www.folklore.org/Handicapped.html A few hours later, I found out that Apple's other cofounder, Steve Wozniak, who was a prolific prankster, called up the Cupertino police and reported that a silver Mercedes was illegally parked in a handicapped space and told them the person reporting it was Andy Hertzfeld, giving them my phone number at work.
- beembeem 3y ago
  Isn't it now two weeks not six months?
CptnFluffyTail 3y ago
The Privacy ICAO Address Program. You get a temporary ICAO addresses to broadcast which are not associated with the Civil Aircraft Registry and a third-party callsign. Only works in US airspace is my understanding though. The Limiting Aircraft Data Displayed (LADD) program from the FAA only filters what gets shown in data feeds from the FAA. Something like ADS-B which gets the actual live data from the aircraft is unfiltered. https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy

theideaofcoffee 3y ago

Hey Tay, just Shake It Off. Really. You have no expectation of privacy using public airspace. If you don't want to be tracked, you probably shouldn't be traveling in a flying machine emblazoned with registration marks. Maybe try the train. Edit: now that I think about it for more than sixteen seconds, couldn't that be a marketing opportunity in disguise (as if her act needs more marketing)? "Know when she flies over your house! Get a selfie with the contrail in the background! Most likes on a tiktok gets a personal response saying thanks for thinking of me!"

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
alvarezbjm-hn 3y ago
"You have no expectation of privacy using public airspace" Replace airspace with "space". Public figure in a public space. They always want the perks without the cost. Now, not being harrased is another thing. But not being noticed? (Specially in an airplane) Haters gonna hate. Epilogue: Yes, any publicity is publicity. I am even considering her AI releases, and the acompaning complains, a public stunt.
- add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
  > I am even considering her AI releases, and the acompaning complains, a public stunt. What does this mean? Do you mean that she arranged for AI porn of herself to be released?
  - toastgrave 3y ago
    Taylor haters have gone absolutely nuts lately but that idea may be the craziest I've ever heard
  - SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
    "I am the absolute height of my fame and power, time to.... release a fake sex tape?" Isn't that how you turn from a C-lister to a B-lister, not something you do when you're already at the top of the pile?

mtreis86 3y ago

EFF involved? FCC? Scanning for ADB with an RTL SDR is very legal. Sharing that data is also very legal

kube-system 3y ago
Sending letters asking people not to do something is also very legal. Also, stalking and/or laws are entirely unrelated to whether or not ADSB data is legally collected. It's a different issue entirely. It's legal to look in a phone book, but that doesn't mean you can't harass someone over the phone.

seanhunter 3y ago

Not a fan or an apologist for private jet travel but I would say she has reasonable couse to be fearful of her safety. https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/taylor-swift-stalker-texas-prison-sentence-jail-b464145.html https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/... for example

henryaj 3y ago
What's the safety angle? Presumably her potential stalkers are unlikely to have access to surface-to-air missiles.
- seanhunter 3y ago
  They will know where she is going to so they can plan to get there. Not saying that's justification for the action against the tracker.
  - Glant 3y ago
    She very kindly types up when and where she plans on being and publishes it on her website, but I guess that's not a security issue because it makes her money.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    > They will know where she is going to so they can plan to get there. Let's say that they do and they even manage to show up at LAX 20 minutes before her plane lands. Now what? Honestly. It's not as if they can just hang around at the baggage claim and find her there. What do you think they can do now? Surround the entire airport and stop every single vehicle from leaving until they find the one with her in it?

jbombadil 3y ago

https://archive.vn/1TxKB https://archive.vn/1TxKB

prh8 3y ago

There's a whole demographic of people that stalk and threaten her, and now a political party and a news platform that are pushing a narrative of war with her to their irrational followers who have shown they are willing to act violently and criminally. And unsurprisingly, the comments here predictably sound similar to that group. Personal safety is a perfectly reasonable concern to have.

AlbertCory 3y ago

Bill Murray said that when people claim they want to be rich and famous: I always want to say to people who want to be rich and famous: 'try being rich first'. See if that doesn't cover most of it. There's not much downside to being rich, other than paying taxes and having your relatives ask you for money. But when you become famous, you end up with a 24-hour job. https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/bill_murray_411631 https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/bill_murray_411631 As someone else here said, she could fly on different (unknown) people's private jets, or a private jet service's. Oh, but then it wouldn't be tricked out exactly the way she wants it. Tiny violins.

wolverine876 3y ago
As a professional who flies much of her life, ad hoc arrangements would be insufficient. You can't have the overhead and stress of figuring out and adjusting to something new every day. She lives on the road (much of the time) - it's her home, effectively. It's not a vacation or a business trip.
- AlbertCory 3y ago
  AFAIK she has a paid staff to do all that for her. As I said: tiny violins.
- autoexec 3y ago
  > You can't have the overhead and stress of figuring out and adjusting to something new every day. you mean like literally everyone else who doesn't own a private jet does? Anyone who can afford a private jet can easily afford to hire someone else to figure out the details and make the needed travel arrangements for them.
  - AlbertCory 3y ago
    The staff person could even hold the "feels like Taylor's home" kit and pre-install it on any private jet she flies on. They could even pay for multiple jets take off from wherever she is, so people can't tell which one she's on.

wolverine876 3y ago

As a technical solution: Could the identifier be per flight and anonymous, rather than having ID be per plane, with the owner/user published (where?)? Would that meet other needs? The FAA could have a database connecting flight IDs with (confidential) plane IDs.

GaryNumanVevo 3y ago
They already have a Privacy IACO aircraft address, you file some paperwork to the FAA, and you can rotate your aircraft's identifier every 60 days [1]. However this is only for domestic flights, and wouldn't work when flying out of or into the United States. [1] - https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/equipadsb/privacy

gtmitchell 3y ago

Honestly, I think anything that brings more attention to the stupendously wasteful travel habits of wealthy individuals such as celebrities and politicians is a public good and should be encouraged. Ms. Swift has essentially unlimited resources to protect her privacy, so perhaps she should choose a method of transportation that doesn't involve broadcasting ADS-B information across the continent as she travels.

cynicalsecurity 3y ago

That's the part of being a world class pop star.

karaterobot 3y ago

In situations like this, I always wonder why you start with a threatening letter from the lawyers, and not just a phone call between the two parties, where one of them would say "hey look, I know you can do this, but it makes me scared for my safety—I think you can understand why—and I really hope you'd consider not doing it". Start from that, rather than just going straight to threats. You can always be a dick later, try being a human first. That said, I'm actually on her side here. I don't like being tracked on the internet, and I do everything I can to avoid it. I can't imagine someone following me around, and me being persuaded by the argument that I'm in a public space, so I have no expectation of privacy. As far as I know, there isn't another option except to be in the public space if I want to get somewhere. And I think people who track other people because they can, and you can't stop me are in many ways worse than people whose motives are entirely venal. Just act like grown-up, civilized human beings.

autoexec 3y ago
> You can always be a dick later, try being a human first. This I agree with. > I don't like being tracked on the internet, and I do everything I can to avoid it. That's the difference. Swift could avoid being tracked by plane too, but she doesn't want to because it would mean she'd lose the advantage of having her own private jet. The price of having a private jet is having your travels tracked. There are a lot of benefits to fame, and a lot of downsides. You take the good with the bad. In the case, the bad is that people are going to know and complain about how wasteful and bad for the environment her air travel is. Tweeting about where a public figure's private plan goes doesn't even come close to the levels of obnoxiousness that paparazzi rise to. > As far as I know, there isn't another option except to be in the public space if I want to get somewhere. And you have no expectation of privacy in public, which is why you are already tracked and recorded every time you step outside no matter where you go just like I am. Neither of us have the kind of money and resources to protect ourselves that celebrities do either.

djha-skin 3y ago

Letter from her legal that's not behind a paywall: https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwiftJets/comments/1akbw3d/see_the_attached_letter/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TaylorSwiftJets/comments/1akbw3d/se...

burkaman 3y ago

> The December letter from Swift’s attorney states that Sweeney’s actions are “in violation of several state laws” but does not specify them. The letter does, however, cite nine anonymous Instagram comments

dmitrygr 3y ago
State laws do not generally apply to flying. Airspace is controlled by the FAA.
- autoexec 3y ago
  Presumably Sweeney’s actions took place on ground.

robbyiq999 3y ago

...meanwhile, the fbi (or any agency, dhs etc) has access to everyone's pinpoint location via third party data brokers. yet here we are, arguing for the anonymity of a JET OWNED AND USED BY A CELEBRITY

robbyiq999 3y ago
I should probably add, this is not a dig on Taylor Swift.

WesolyKubeczek 3y ago

> The pop star has routinely faced stalkers showing up outside her homes As a child raised in a Soviet, and then ex-Soviet country, my precious belly fat is boiling with (maybe baseless) rage. Homes. Plural. She should contract Musk to build her a hyperloop network between them all and play whack-a-mole with the alleged stalkers. With the added benefit that media won't shut up about for another decade. Who knows, might also be cheaper than all those attorneys on retainer.

jasomill 3y ago

While I strongly oppose the tactic of threatening legal action against someone aggregating legally acquired information, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for Swift and others to lobby for an aircraft registration system that improved owner privacy without compromising safety, and would even support such measures, so long as implementation costs are borne by the owners in question.