4 ms·

I wonder if they have considered granting citizenship to non-citizen enlistees who go on to complete a standard 4 years of service (or whatever it is.)

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
082349872349872 3y ago
> They're doing their part. Are you? Join the Mobile Infantry and save the world. Service guarantees citizenship. — EN
- NikolaNovak 3y ago
  Starship Troopers rises again in 21st century :) I enjoy the thought experiment immensely even if I disagree with the result / interpretation; I end up rereading the book every 3-5 years.
procrastitron 3y ago
That’s already been a thing for several decades: https://www.uscis.gov/military/naturalization-through-military-service https://www.uscis.gov/military/naturalization-through-milita...
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > already been a thing for several decades You have to "be a lawful permanent resident at the time of your naturalization interview" [1]. (On the other hand, you're eligible if "you served honorably in the U.S. armed forces for at least one year at any time.") Proposal is that anyone can enlist, e.g. at the border. [1] https://www.uscis.gov/military/naturalization-through-military-service https://www.uscis.gov/military/naturalization-through-milita...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
    Flooding your military with people who have no conception of the values and history that underpin your society seems like a really bad idea to me. I do like the idea of military service as a route to citizenship though. But literally just signing people up at the border seems way too problematic and dangerous.
    - e12e 3y ago
      The French Foreign Legion seems to do ok?
      - SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
        An extremely small outfit with extremely high selection criteria and a gruelling recruitment process, that's specifically structured to handle foreign recruits, and drills them extremely harshly in French language. Which offers a citizenship, that while nothing to sneeze at, is regularly not even taken up by some of its soldiers after they serve. It's not a viable comparison to signing people up at the border to get US citizenship on any level. However it could act as inspiration for any efforts to found a similar outfit in the States.
        e12e 3y ago
        > extremely small outfit Maybe by us standards (1.4m active) - but the legion is almost 10k active personell - close to 10% of the French forces. Still, Ukraine claim their foreign legion stand at 30k.
        SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
        That's a really good point, although I think the smallness matters more in absolute terms, than relative terms. Both examples show that you can maintain a large foreign presence in your military though. The French Foreign Legion is highly, highly, selective though. I don't know much about the Ukraine foreign legion, but being in an immediately existentially threatening conflict is a special case. I doubt the Ukrainians would wish for such a large foreign legion if they had the choice, although again, I don't know the history of its numbers prior to the war with Russia.
- otoburb 3y ago
  I thought one of the eligibility requirements to be recruited was either US citizenship or permanent residence.[1] [1] https://www.goarmy.com/how-to-join/requirements.html https://www.goarmy.com/how-to-join/requirements.html
  - wizerdrobe 3y ago
    I have no damned clue how they made it work, but I had several illlegal-as-children immigrant friends manage to get into the military and earn citizenship. Perhaps there was an Obama era program?
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> citizenship to non-citizen enlistees This is a great proposal that could break the logjam on immigration reform.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- fbdab103 3y ago
  I am incredibly curious how this would fare politically in today's climate.
  - micromacrofoot 3y ago
    the military is largely a jobs program so we’d be back to “they took our jobs”
- otoburb 3y ago
  Similar to the French Foreign Legion where one can request citizenship through naturalization after 3 years of service[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion
  - wizerdrobe 3y ago
    Not the greatest example… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_putsch_of_1961#:~:text=The%20Algiers%20putsch%20(French%3A%20Putsch,community%20and%20pro%2DFrench%20Muslims https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_putsch_of_1961#:~:te....
- phone8675309 3y ago
  No better way to teach immigrants about the warlike nature of Americans than putting them through four years of combat in a forever war somewhere in the middle east or asia.
  - thewildginger 3y ago
micromacrofoot 3y ago
most people would continue coming in illegally

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

082349872349872 3y ago

> They're doing their part. Are you? Join the Mobile Infantry and save the world. Service guarantees citizenship. — EN

NikolaNovak 3y ago
Starship Troopers rises again in 21st century :) I enjoy the thought experiment immensely even if I disagree with the result / interpretation; I end up rereading the book every 3-5 years.

procrastitron 3y ago

That’s already been a thing for several decades: https://www.uscis.gov/military/naturalization-through-military-service https://www.uscis.gov/military/naturalization-through-milita...

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> already been a thing for several decades You have to "be a lawful permanent resident at the time of your naturalization interview" [1]. (On the other hand, you're eligible if "you served honorably in the U.S. armed forces for at least one year at any time.") Proposal is that anyone can enlist, e.g. at the border. [1] https://www.uscis.gov/military/naturalization-through-military-service https://www.uscis.gov/military/naturalization-through-milita...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
  Flooding your military with people who have no conception of the values and history that underpin your society seems like a really bad idea to me. I do like the idea of military service as a route to citizenship though. But literally just signing people up at the border seems way too problematic and dangerous.
  - e12e 3y ago
    The French Foreign Legion seems to do ok?
    - SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
      An extremely small outfit with extremely high selection criteria and a gruelling recruitment process, that's specifically structured to handle foreign recruits, and drills them extremely harshly in French language. Which offers a citizenship, that while nothing to sneeze at, is regularly not even taken up by some of its soldiers after they serve. It's not a viable comparison to signing people up at the border to get US citizenship on any level. However it could act as inspiration for any efforts to found a similar outfit in the States.
      - e12e 3y ago
        > extremely small outfit Maybe by us standards (1.4m active) - but the legion is almost 10k active personell - close to 10% of the French forces. Still, Ukraine claim their foreign legion stand at 30k.
        SuperNinKenDo 3y ago
        That's a really good point, although I think the smallness matters more in absolute terms, than relative terms. Both examples show that you can maintain a large foreign presence in your military though. The French Foreign Legion is highly, highly, selective though. I don't know much about the Ukraine foreign legion, but being in an immediately existentially threatening conflict is a special case. I doubt the Ukrainians would wish for such a large foreign legion if they had the choice, although again, I don't know the history of its numbers prior to the war with Russia.
otoburb 3y ago
I thought one of the eligibility requirements to be recruited was either US citizenship or permanent residence.[1] [1] https://www.goarmy.com/how-to-join/requirements.html https://www.goarmy.com/how-to-join/requirements.html
- wizerdrobe 3y ago
  I have no damned clue how they made it work, but I had several illlegal-as-children immigrant friends manage to get into the military and earn citizenship. Perhaps there was an Obama era program?

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> citizenship to non-citizen enlistees This is a great proposal that could break the logjam on immigration reform.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
fbdab103 3y ago
I am incredibly curious how this would fare politically in today's climate.
- micromacrofoot 3y ago
  the military is largely a jobs program so we’d be back to “they took our jobs”
otoburb 3y ago
Similar to the French Foreign Legion where one can request citizenship through naturalization after 3 years of service[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Foreign_Legion
- wizerdrobe 3y ago
  Not the greatest example… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_putsch_of_1961#:~:text=The%20Algiers%20putsch%20(French%3A%20Putsch,community%20and%20pro%2DFrench%20Muslims https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algiers_putsch_of_1961#:~:te....
phone8675309 3y ago
No better way to teach immigrants about the warlike nature of Americans than putting them through four years of combat in a forever war somewhere in the middle east or asia.
- thewildginger 3y ago

micromacrofoot 3y ago

most people would continue coming in illegally