5 ms·

Developers experience burnout, but 70% of them code on weekends

26 points by bytearray 3y ago

bytearray 3y ago
Interesting article, now time for me to go do more coding on the weekend. :-)
oldpersonintx 3y ago
[dead]
booleandilemma 3y ago
Coding for yourself and coding for an employer are two completely different things.
- Buttons840 3y ago
  They're so different most people looking over my shoulder couldn't tell the difference. I don't think "completely different" is an accurate description.
  - AndyNemmity 3y ago
    I'm sure this could be said for most people looking at something they have zero understanding in. I couldn't tell the difference between workmen doing things on my street, but they very well may be "completely different".
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
cebert 3y ago
I wish they would link to the actual Jet Brians survey in the blog post which is far more interesting https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/devecosystem-2023/ https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/devecosystem-2023/.
tracker1 3y ago
I think that software development moves in terms of tools, libraries and to a lesser extent, languages faster and more frequently than most professions. You're also largely expected to learn in your own time. I've been at it since the mid 90s and the to spend 10-15 hours a week on my craft. From reading articles, looking at libraries to personal projects, it doesn't stop. I don't expect everyone to do the same, but it does make a massive difference.
- Viliam1234 3y ago
  > You're also largely expected to learn in your own time. Was easy when I didn't have kids. Not anymore.
  - tracker1 3y ago
    Yeah it does get harder with kids. I am sometimes able to split the reading time in the clock, like when there's a half hour or less between meetings Still prioritize workload, but the to need at least a half hour to get in the flow.
twodave 3y ago
Burnout doesn’t come from writing software in my experience. It comes from dealing with increasing amounts of bullshit in order to be able to build the right software. This isn’t a tech problem but a business one.
SoftTalker 3y ago
I stopped hobby coding over 10 years ago. I don't want to even think about code on the weekends.
jessyco 3y ago
I don't feel that burnt out is coming from the coding, it's coming from the business side of things. When you're not aligned with the same goals or expected quality of work it'll slowly chip away at your mental fortitude. Finding balance isn't something that is taught in school, in courses or in the professional setting. At least it hasn't been in my experiences. It's taken me burning out and slowly and still recovering to find a balance I'm comfortable with. I code on weekends for fun sometimes but the project has to light that fire of inspiration otherwise it's just not worth it anymore. That has been my experience post burnout anyway. If you're becoming cynical of your job role, or people you work with take a step back and check yourself for signs of burnout.. Change jobs and effort levels and find something you align with more.
- zoomablemind 3y ago
  One of the factors of burning out is a lack of control over the pipeline, that is over the contents, speed, and quality of what flows in and out. So the weekend coding is an example of the opposite - having control over the choices, owning your time and inspiration. Well, some degree of OCD likely is another factor in the burnout and the weekend coding just manifests this OCD. Managing the high degree of complexity while being constrained by time by itself has a huge toll in the burning out.
neonlights84 3y ago
A new software guy recently told me that he was planning to read a textbook over the weekend so that he could be prepared for a technical discussion meeting during the week. My thoughts were 1) you must be really bad at time management and 2) you must be really bad at setting work-life boundaries. If I were in that situation, I'd be asking for a charge code from management.
- 000ooo000 3y ago
  It's hard not to tie your own identity up in how 'good' of a developer you are, especially when you're green. It can be incredibly motivating, too. That said, over the years I have found it easier to let go of a bit of that stress/anxiety of being 'bad' since realising that so little of the quality of my output is actually in my control. Sure, I write the code, but do I get final say in the design? In the issues I encounter along the way and how I accommodate them? Can I say "our in-house framework is dogshit and it's time to bin it"? Nope, I'm a cog, and once one mediocre piece of code leaves my machine off to generate Business Value TM, I'm simply required to repeat the process. Even keen software craftsmen can't really arrive at consensus on what quality code is in all scenarios, so how will a business do so when all they want is to generate profit, and quality code is often not a requirement to achieve that in the short term? There's just no incentive. I do my best because I derive some satisfaction from it, but the moment I hit resistance, I remind myself that I'd do it differently if I was given the choice, and I proceed with whatever garbage I need to do to get paid. -- me, a part of the 70%
flohofwoe 3y ago
For me, "weekend coding" was actually important to avoid burnout and preserve the fun of coding I had decades ago as teenager. In a "professional context" this can be quite challenging.
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
Is it actually common to get burned out on coding or technology work itself, or is it just that we get burned out on agile and other corporate BS?
phamilton4 3y ago
Let's see... 14 days on call every 3 months. 3 releases a week. All the normal review work. PRs, design, etc. SCRUM meetings. Meetings before the meetings. Crazy deadlines which were arbitrarily given by someone in another group. Being up late to make changes because the business deems it too risky to do it during regular business hours. Endless performance testing, e2e testing which always generates defects that arent really defects but still need 30m of my time. Upgrade this or that to the latest. version because xyz no longer supports what you have. Endless security vulnerabilities that need to be upgraded. Pipelines that need to be upgraded or fixed just to get a release. Failing tests which need to be investigated. Hundreds of configuration points which control process flows. Never ending lower environment problems. RTO. Constant fear of being laid off. Definitely no way anyone could be burnt out. I actually want to work on my own projects during the weekends if I can. That somehow brings me happiness compared to what I work on at work, which is bogged down by external issues. My personal projects I have no one to report status updates to, no one to tell me "I'm doing it wrong" no customers to support, freedom to mess up. Lol
- twodave 3y ago
  Yes! I’ll add on—endless requests from the suits to account for every task in a way that fits into one of their stupid (and usually new) buckets. Random 11th hour emergencies from poorly-vetted implementations. Having to fight leads and PMs of other teams to take ownership of or be flexible about _anything_. Tasks that are more about optics and saving face than about making anything better. Architects who “don’t write code anymore” but expect to be able to dictate how others approach the craft.
  - nine_zeros 3y ago
    > Architects who “don’t write code anymore” but expect to be able to dictate how others approach the craft. They are called staff engineers now. Highly paid, but can't save the services when on-call.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  Such a great list. Thanks for writing. I full agree these things matter us. These endless paper cuts tatter us as we go. Still I think the real suffering is less about these little indignities, & more a cosmic sense that the business doesn't get it, doesn't see the real work, doesn't care. It doesn't seem like businesses fundamentally believe in us, our craft, or our talents. Performance review even when going great tends to recognizes us only in blunt vague generalizations. As craftsmen we all too often feel alone & separated from the org when we are doing are best acts. Hard finicky stuff pulled together by hook, crook, and a couple dashes of wit. Finding excellent libraries and tools to offload hard aspects of the task. The company can then be merry that they've built a great product, hopefully. But it feels like camaraderie - through good times & bad! - would come from sharing such incredible work & time, but the organization doesn't fully see. The faint distributed sensory network of the discorporal org miss the best parts of truth our code wroughts out.
herbst 3y ago
I burned out, quit my job, travelled a while and in the end fell in love with coding again. Coding doesn't burn out, boring coding does.
jurassicfoxy 3y ago
Coding and software development are an amazing outlet for creativity. Software developers have the potential to do truly amazing, fun, useful things. I think that's why coding on the weekends is such a prevalent "problem". Of course, I don't think it's "the" problem at all.
pjmlp 3y ago
Most of the weekend coding is for learning stuff that is expected at work, but hardly given the time to learn, an escape to have fun with technologies that will never be allowed to deploy into production at work, and lately to keep the HR filters happy to be feed with some random Github content. However only if there aren't more pressing matters from family and friends, which matter more than any line of code.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zeroq 3y ago
"The fantastic element that explains the appeal of games to many developers is neither the fire-breathing monsters nor the milky-skinned, semi-clad sirens; it is the experience of carrying out a task from start to finish without any change in the user requirements."
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
The hard part of my job comes when I’m not coding.
rodrigodlu 3y ago
Nice and quick article. It's kind of clear that the problem is not coding. It's fun and creative. For me it's clear that most challenging thing is managing egos, not naming variables. Egos decide procesess and rules with insufficient data. Some egos even like to decide with insufficient data and twist the measurements later to conform their views. So: Self ego, managers egos, shareholders egos, and the infinite edges between these entities. It's certainly harder than rust and monads :D
vidarh 3y ago
Coding in my hobby projects alleviate burnout for me in much the same way mediation, or just relaxing with my family does. It's a way to switch focus to something soothing. There are time when I'm too mentally exhausted to focus on coding at all, but most "burnout" is not that for me, but increasing feelings of resistance against working on something specific. Sure, it can sometimes rise to a level where it expands and you shut down and don't feel like doing much of anything, but to me those hobby projects feel like they help avoid that. Hacking on game with my son, or my many "productivity" projects that aren't so much about my productivity as about bikeshedding my own tools because it's enjoyable has very different properties to a work project.

26 points by bytearray 3y ago

bytearray 3y ago

Interesting article, now time for me to go do more coding on the weekend. :-)

oldpersonintx 3y ago

[dead]

booleandilemma 3y ago

Coding for yourself and coding for an employer are two completely different things.

Buttons840 3y ago
They're so different most people looking over my shoulder couldn't tell the difference. I don't think "completely different" is an accurate description.
- AndyNemmity 3y ago
  I'm sure this could be said for most people looking at something they have zero understanding in. I couldn't tell the difference between workmen doing things on my street, but they very well may be "completely different".
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

cebert 3y ago

I wish they would link to the actual Jet Brians survey in the blog post which is far more interesting https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/devecosystem-2023/ https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/devecosystem-2023/.

tracker1 3y ago

I think that software development moves in terms of tools, libraries and to a lesser extent, languages faster and more frequently than most professions. You're also largely expected to learn in your own time. I've been at it since the mid 90s and the to spend 10-15 hours a week on my craft. From reading articles, looking at libraries to personal projects, it doesn't stop. I don't expect everyone to do the same, but it does make a massive difference.

Viliam1234 3y ago
> You're also largely expected to learn in your own time. Was easy when I didn't have kids. Not anymore.
- tracker1 3y ago
  Yeah it does get harder with kids. I am sometimes able to split the reading time in the clock, like when there's a half hour or less between meetings Still prioritize workload, but the to need at least a half hour to get in the flow.

twodave 3y ago

Burnout doesn’t come from writing software in my experience. It comes from dealing with increasing amounts of bullshit in order to be able to build the right software. This isn’t a tech problem but a business one.

SoftTalker 3y ago

I stopped hobby coding over 10 years ago. I don't want to even think about code on the weekends.

jessyco 3y ago

I don't feel that burnt out is coming from the coding, it's coming from the business side of things. When you're not aligned with the same goals or expected quality of work it'll slowly chip away at your mental fortitude. Finding balance isn't something that is taught in school, in courses or in the professional setting. At least it hasn't been in my experiences. It's taken me burning out and slowly and still recovering to find a balance I'm comfortable with. I code on weekends for fun sometimes but the project has to light that fire of inspiration otherwise it's just not worth it anymore. That has been my experience post burnout anyway. If you're becoming cynical of your job role, or people you work with take a step back and check yourself for signs of burnout.. Change jobs and effort levels and find something you align with more.

zoomablemind 3y ago
One of the factors of burning out is a lack of control over the pipeline, that is over the contents, speed, and quality of what flows in and out. So the weekend coding is an example of the opposite - having control over the choices, owning your time and inspiration. Well, some degree of OCD likely is another factor in the burnout and the weekend coding just manifests this OCD. Managing the high degree of complexity while being constrained by time by itself has a huge toll in the burning out.

neonlights84 3y ago

A new software guy recently told me that he was planning to read a textbook over the weekend so that he could be prepared for a technical discussion meeting during the week. My thoughts were 1) you must be really bad at time management and 2) you must be really bad at setting work-life boundaries. If I were in that situation, I'd be asking for a charge code from management.

000ooo000 3y ago
It's hard not to tie your own identity up in how 'good' of a developer you are, especially when you're green. It can be incredibly motivating, too. That said, over the years I have found it easier to let go of a bit of that stress/anxiety of being 'bad' since realising that so little of the quality of my output is actually in my control. Sure, I write the code, but do I get final say in the design? In the issues I encounter along the way and how I accommodate them? Can I say "our in-house framework is dogshit and it's time to bin it"? Nope, I'm a cog, and once one mediocre piece of code leaves my machine off to generate Business Value TM, I'm simply required to repeat the process. Even keen software craftsmen can't really arrive at consensus on what quality code is in all scenarios, so how will a business do so when all they want is to generate profit, and quality code is often not a requirement to achieve that in the short term? There's just no incentive. I do my best because I derive some satisfaction from it, but the moment I hit resistance, I remind myself that I'd do it differently if I was given the choice, and I proceed with whatever garbage I need to do to get paid. -- me, a part of the 70%

flohofwoe 3y ago

For me, "weekend coding" was actually important to avoid burnout and preserve the fun of coding I had decades ago as teenager. In a "professional context" this can be quite challenging.

add-sub-mul-div 3y ago

Is it actually common to get burned out on coding or technology work itself, or is it just that we get burned out on agile and other corporate BS?

phamilton4 3y ago

Let's see... 14 days on call every 3 months. 3 releases a week. All the normal review work. PRs, design, etc. SCRUM meetings. Meetings before the meetings. Crazy deadlines which were arbitrarily given by someone in another group. Being up late to make changes because the business deems it too risky to do it during regular business hours. Endless performance testing, e2e testing which always generates defects that arent really defects but still need 30m of my time. Upgrade this or that to the latest. version because xyz no longer supports what you have. Endless security vulnerabilities that need to be upgraded. Pipelines that need to be upgraded or fixed just to get a release. Failing tests which need to be investigated. Hundreds of configuration points which control process flows. Never ending lower environment problems. RTO. Constant fear of being laid off. Definitely no way anyone could be burnt out. I actually want to work on my own projects during the weekends if I can. That somehow brings me happiness compared to what I work on at work, which is bogged down by external issues. My personal projects I have no one to report status updates to, no one to tell me "I'm doing it wrong" no customers to support, freedom to mess up. Lol

twodave 3y ago
Yes! I’ll add on—endless requests from the suits to account for every task in a way that fits into one of their stupid (and usually new) buckets. Random 11th hour emergencies from poorly-vetted implementations. Having to fight leads and PMs of other teams to take ownership of or be flexible about _anything_. Tasks that are more about optics and saving face than about making anything better. Architects who “don’t write code anymore” but expect to be able to dictate how others approach the craft.
- nine_zeros 3y ago
  > Architects who “don’t write code anymore” but expect to be able to dictate how others approach the craft. They are called staff engineers now. Highly paid, but can't save the services when on-call.
jauntywundrkind 3y ago
Such a great list. Thanks for writing. I full agree these things matter us. These endless paper cuts tatter us as we go. Still I think the real suffering is less about these little indignities, & more a cosmic sense that the business doesn't get it, doesn't see the real work, doesn't care. It doesn't seem like businesses fundamentally believe in us, our craft, or our talents. Performance review even when going great tends to recognizes us only in blunt vague generalizations. As craftsmen we all too often feel alone & separated from the org when we are doing are best acts. Hard finicky stuff pulled together by hook, crook, and a couple dashes of wit. Finding excellent libraries and tools to offload hard aspects of the task. The company can then be merry that they've built a great product, hopefully. But it feels like camaraderie - through good times & bad! - would come from sharing such incredible work & time, but the organization doesn't fully see. The faint distributed sensory network of the discorporal org miss the best parts of truth our code wroughts out.

herbst 3y ago

I burned out, quit my job, travelled a while and in the end fell in love with coding again. Coding doesn't burn out, boring coding does.

jurassicfoxy 3y ago

Coding and software development are an amazing outlet for creativity. Software developers have the potential to do truly amazing, fun, useful things. I think that's why coding on the weekends is such a prevalent "problem". Of course, I don't think it's "the" problem at all.

pjmlp 3y ago

Most of the weekend coding is for learning stuff that is expected at work, but hardly given the time to learn, an escape to have fun with technologies that will never be allowed to deploy into production at work, and lately to keep the HR filters happy to be feed with some random Github content. However only if there aren't more pressing matters from family and friends, which matter more than any line of code.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

zeroq 3y ago

"The fantastic element that explains the appeal of games to many developers is neither the fire-breathing monsters nor the milky-skinned, semi-clad sirens; it is the experience of carrying out a task from start to finish without any change in the user requirements."

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

The hard part of my job comes when I’m not coding.

rodrigodlu 3y ago

Nice and quick article. It's kind of clear that the problem is not coding. It's fun and creative. For me it's clear that most challenging thing is managing egos, not naming variables. Egos decide procesess and rules with insufficient data. Some egos even like to decide with insufficient data and twist the measurements later to conform their views. So: Self ego, managers egos, shareholders egos, and the infinite edges between these entities. It's certainly harder than rust and monads :D

vidarh 3y ago

Coding in my hobby projects alleviate burnout for me in much the same way mediation, or just relaxing with my family does. It's a way to switch focus to something soothing. There are time when I'm too mentally exhausted to focus on coding at all, but most "burnout" is not that for me, but increasing feelings of resistance against working on something specific. Sure, it can sometimes rise to a level where it expands and you shut down and don't feel like doing much of anything, but to me those hobby projects feel like they help avoid that. Hacking on game with my son, or my many "productivity" projects that aren't so much about my productivity as about bikeshedding my own tools because it's enjoyable has very different properties to a work project.