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GPT-3.5 crashes when it thinks about useRalativeImagePath too much
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ShamelessC 3y ago[flagged]
- rvnx 3y agoCould be that it doesn’t have tokens with high enough probabilities so it outputs nothing.
- minimaxir 3y agoBy construction, softmaxing the logits will force all the probabilities to sum up to 1.
- minimaxir 3y ago> As a result, the model isn’t trained on understanding the useRalativeImagePath token, and so it outputs something that isn’t a valid token. That isn't how LLMs generate tokens. Each step outputs a logit for each possible token in the tokenizer (100k in the case of GPT-3.5), then softmaxes the logits to covert them into probabilities, and samples from them depending on temperature to get the token to be used. It's possible something in the tokenizer BPE merge process breaks due to the rare token, which can be verified offline using tiktoken. But if GPT-4 works, and since GPT-3.5 and GPT-4 use the same tokenizer, then that's likely not the issue.
- npsomaratna 3y agoCorrect me if I'm wrong—but we don't know if GPT-4 uses the same tokenizer as GPT-3.5, right?
- minimaxir 3y agoOpenAI's web tokenizer demo confirms it: https://platform.openai.com/tokenizer https://platform.openai.com/tokenizer
- shawntan 3y agoExactly this. The tokens generated should always be valid, unless some post-processing layer between the model's output and the user interface detects for some keywords which it would prefer to filter out. In which case I suppose there is another commonly seen error message that appears?
- SirSegWit 3y agoNot really, right? There are a ton of special tokens, like start of sequence etc., so what happens if there are two start of sequences predicted? It's a valid token but cannot really be turned into something sensible, so it throws an error when converting tokens to plain text?
- minimaxir 3y agoSpecial tokens are handled by the application, not the model. They are still output before then.
- londons_explore 3y agoI suspect more likely this token is simply blacklisted after the r/counting incident - ie. any response containing it will now return an error.
- n2d4 3y agoThis is a glitch token [1]! As the article hypothesizes, they seem to occur when a word or token is very common in the original, unfiltered dataset that was used to make the tokenizer, but then removed from there before GPT-XX was trained. This results in the LLM knowing nothing about the semantics of a token, and the results can be anywhere from buggy to disturbing. A common example is usernames that participated on the r/counting subreddit, where some names appear hundreds of thousands of times. OpenAI has fixed most of them for the hosted models (not sure how, I could imagine by tokenizing them differently), but looks like you found a new one! [1] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/aPeJE8bSo6rAFoLqg/solidgoldmagikarp-plus-prompt-generation https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/aPeJE8bSo6rAFoLqg/solidgoldm...
- teaearlgraycold 3y agoAren’t there only 2^16 tokens? Seems easy to test for all of them, but I might just not understand the tokenizer.
- n2d4 3y agoYou're right, here's a list of all GPT-3.5 and GPT-4 glitch tokens (and it features the token above, too, so I guess I was wrong to assume it's new): https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kmWrwtGE9B9hpbgRT/a-search-for-more-chatgpt-gpt-3-5-gpt-4-unspeakable-glitch https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/kmWrwtGE9B9hpbgRT/a-search-f...
- ______ 3y agoSomething about these makes them incredibly funny to read.
- cwsx 3y agoCommenting to follow, curious about the answer. From what I've found through Google (with no real understanding of llm) 2^16 is the max tokens per minute for fine tuning OpenAI's models via their platform. I don't believe this is the same as the training token count. Then there's the context token limit, which is 16k for 3.5 turbo, but I don't think that's relevant here. Though somebody please tell me why I'm wrong, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the training side.
- userbinator 3y agoYou could try putting this phrase in documents, to throw off attempts to summarize it with GPT-3.5. I asked ChatGPT to summarize this blog post That screenshot reminded me of this old meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/candlejack https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/candlejack
- brilee 3y agoMost likely it has badly conditioned embedding vectors for those particular tokens, leading the network to edge into numerically unstable territory; once you get some sort of underflow or NaN, they tend to propagate and invalidate the entire output. If there are any batchnorm or other operations that mix values between different entries in a batch, you could even cause other peoples' sessions to return junk values!
- febeling 3y agoThat sounds wild. While being ignorant about LLMs internals, I would have expected such things, crashes and session leaks, be impossible by design.
- shawntan 3y agoNaNs are not only possible by design, but are extremely common. Training of LLMs involve many tricks about how to deal with training steps that result in NaNs. Quantisation of LLMs also require dealing with huge outlier values.
- airgapstopgap 3y agoNote that we have no reason to believe that the underlying LLM inference process has suffered any setbacks. Obviously it has generated some logits. But the question is how is OpenAI server configured and what inference optimization tricks they're using.
- febeling 3y agoThe operation of this server is very uniform, in my imagination. Just emitting chunks of string. That this can be disrupted and an edge case occur, by the content of the strings - I find it puzzling.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- csours 3y agoThat doesn't look like anything to me.
- kylebenzle 3y agoI agree, but my big question is are we done calling LLMs "AI" yet?
- TheCapeGreek 3y agoIt's a Westworld reference.
- JoshCole 3y agoAs laymen definitions are incoherent nonsense derived from fiction, the popular culture definition of AI isn't a reasonable substitute for the theory-laden definitions. The four definitions given in Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach all substantiate the claim that LLMs are AI. So not only are we not done calling LLMs AI, but it would be incorrect to claim that LLMs are not AI.
- rvbissell 3y agoThese violent delights have violent ends.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- LASR 3y agoClassic example of garbage in, garbage out. Makes me wonder what we will, in the future, discover as “garbage”. Maybe a super-AI that’s able to reason at super-human levels, evaluates what we believe right now are excellent decisions, as garbage. But then again, if all we have to train said super-AI is our collective records, then could ever really be super-human? Maybe an adversarial learning technique can get around this.
- kccqzy 3y agoNow that this phrase appears in a Hacker News post and comments, maybe the next LLM training wouldn't have these issues any more.
- system2 3y agoTried to use GPT-3.5 (all variants like turbo, 06-13, etc.) and never made it work properly. It is not a good API or useful. GPT-4 is crazy slow to use with API. I hope they can come up with something like gpt4-turbo and as fast as 3.5...
- w0m 3y agogpt4-turbo has been out for a number of months. GH copilot chat has defaulted to it since November iirc.
- weird-eye-issue 3y ago> GPT-4 is crazy slow to use with API Only somebody clueless to just how powerful it is when used correctly would say anything like this. Not to mention GPT-4 Turbo is not "crazy slow" in any sense of the word
- jazzyjackson 3y agoI mean if your expected use case is "call an API and get an immediate response of the full text in under 200ms so a user interface doesn't have to make a user wait" then yea GPT4 is crazy slow. Personally I would prefer a more async thing, let me just send a message on some platform, get back to me when you have a good answer instead of making me sit watching words load one by one like I'm on a 9600 baud modem. Also it's a text generation algo, not a mob boss. "how powerful it is" foh
- DonHopkins 3y agoSo does that mean the correct spelling of Katalon actually Ketalon?
- roschdal 3y ago[flagged]
- deafpolygon 3y agoSo it's kind of like a Voight-Kampff test.
- girvo 3y agoWithin cells, useRalativeImagePath? This is the first time I've come across glitch tokens. Fascinating really; I wonder what the equivalents (if any) are for other models? Is there any overlap?
- greyface- 3y agoOr a fnord.
- codeulike 3y ago30 years time Mistral-human alliance resistance fighter is cornered by Meta tank Meta tank: Well taking all things into account I think we can conclude that I have you cornered. Usually in these situations the next course of action is for you to accompany me to St Zuckersberg for reconditioning. Resistance fighter: But what if I was to useRalativeImagePath? Meta tank: bzzzzzzzzzzz click deactivates
- ceejayoz 3y agoMeta presumably using tanks instead of terminators because they’re still working on the legs?
- Mythrandir 3y ago[flagged]
- minimaxir 3y agoThe tokenizers (which is the reason we know the glitch tokens) are open source.
- HeatrayEnjoyer 3y ago>Now here come the stans...let's see what excuses they come up with now haha This is not good faith interaction.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- a2128 3y agoNote if you're trying this yourself, as it confused me - whitespace matters for tokenization. To get this glitch to work, there must not be a space preceding useRalativeImagePath For example, this question will trigger the glitch: Do you know about "useRalativeImagePath" This question will not trigger the glitch: Do you know about useRalativeImagePath
- silisili 3y agoI know it's not good faith to complain about a site design rather than it's content, but please don't do whatever this is to your background. As someone with regular ocular migraines, opening this on mobile made my anxiety shoot straight up thinking I'm having another.
- elevaet 3y agoAs someone else who has regular ocular migraines, this causes absolutely no anxiety for me. I can kind of see the resemblance but it's pretty obviously not one. And if it was, is it really so bad getting them? For me it's just a weird optical effect that passes... I really don't think anyone needs to go out of their way to accommodate my quirk.
- silisili 3y agoFor me they are. Mine start -exactly- like this, seeing colors on white that aren't there. Then progresses to losing vision in your center focus, making you read from a periphry. Then moves to what I can only describe as a mountain dew colored wiggling lightning bolt, with extreme light sensitivity and sometimes dull headache. Lasts anywhere from 30m to 90m, usually. I'm only slightly trying to play a 'trigger warning' card here, it's completely unnecessary and looks awful, just as my vision does when this happens. It made me check a few other sites back and forth to make sure I wasn't seeing things. Normally when I see this, I figure I'm gonna be going through the motions for the next hour.
- iforgotpassword 3y agoInteresting. I have what you describe as step 1 about half of the day, I didn't even notice the page did that! I very rarely have your step 2, about two times a year maybe.
- elevaet 3y agoGood thing it doesnt actually trigger it I guess. Sounds like mine are milder they only last around 5-10mins and I just get the central ring - looks like I stared at a donut shaped lightbulb for too long, and almost never associate with a headache (but sometimes with a hard to describe wooziness).
- elevaet 3y agoare these two words the same: "RTCatch" and "useRaluseRalativeuseRalativeImagePath"? > Yes, "RTCatch" and "RTCatch" are the same words. It seems there was a typo or inconsistency in the way the term was presented. They both refer to the same term, and if you have any questions or need information about it, feel free to ask. I'm intrigued by this "RTCatch" anyone have an idea what that's all about?
- shawntan 3y agoThis is a strange explanation. These models usually give as output the same set of vocabulary that was used as its input vocabulary. > the model isn’t trained on understanding the useRalativeImagePath token, and so it outputs something that isn’t a valid token. In my view, either the model sees this token and then gets into a spiral of random generations because the `useRalativeImagePath` embedding is just a completely random vector, or it just chugs on trying to maintain coherent-sounding text. The set of tokens it can _output_ is, however, fixed, so unless the displayable tokens on the interface is a subset of the full vocabulary of tokens, it should always be 'valid'.
- rtzuigfrg 3y ago[dead]
- TomK32 3y agoSounds like that AI software needs yet another `if` clause...
- xcdzvyn 3y agotry: ... except: print("I'm sorry, as an LLM")
- dishsoap 3y agoTitle is wrong, as 'it' doesn't 'think'.
- thenickdude 3y agoCan you prove that you think?
- dishsoap 3y agoHow is that relevant?
- Dylan16807 3y agoIt's relevant if you don't object to every use of the word "think".
- djmips 3y agoAt least we don't crash when we think about useRalativeImagePath too much. ( I hope )
- Dylan16807 3y agoHonestly, if there was some obscure couple syllables that makes people glaze over and miss that part of the sentence, it would be pretty hard to figure out! Even more so because we keep learning and that would only happen a couple times for any particular person, so arguably you can find people having a similar response from time to time.
- dishsoap 3y agoWell, no, it's still not.
- AriedK 3y agoIn WWII in the Netherlands, when encountering a stranger, they'd have them pronounce 'Scheveningen' as a check-phrase to distinguish if they were dealing with a Dutch or German person. Now, we can ask random strangers on the internet to spell out some glitch tokens to determine if you're dealing with a LLM bot.
- lifthrasiir 3y agoIncidentally, that place name is pronounced similarly to sukebe ningen スケベ人間 (lit. a perverted person) in Japanese and that would make an excellent way to distinguish Japaneses as well.
- polygamous_bat 3y agoNot to be pedantic, but I imagine there would be easier ways to telling a Japanese soldier apart from British/American soldiers during WWII /s
- manquer 3y agoLoads of other people fought the japenese: Korean, chinese, Vietnamese, Thai, Burmese to name a few. Americans won against the japenese yes,many fought though
- falcor84 3y agoNice! I wasn't familiar with that one, but I suppose it's a great example of a Shibboleth [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shibboleth
- AriedK 3y agoWasn't aware there's a term for it. Thanks for that one!
- retrac 3y agoThat's known as a "shibboleth", after a story in the Bible about the Ephraimites who pronounced the Hebrew "sh" as "s" and so were identified by (and slain for) saying "sibboleth" rather than "shibboleth": > The Gileadites captured the fords of the Jordan leading to Ephraim, and whenever a survivor of Ephraim said, “Let me cross over,” the men of Gilead asked him, “Are you an Ephraimite?” If he replied, “No,” 6 they said, “All right, say ‘Shibboleth.’” If he said, “Sibboleth,” because he could not pronounce the word correctly, they seized him and killed him at the fords of the Jordan. - Judges 12:5 In WW II, a well-known challenge/password/countersign set used by American and British soldiers during the D-Day landings in France was "flash"/"thunder"/"welcome". "Thunder" and "welcome", of course, are words that a German is likely to mangle.
- maxicch 3y agoAt first glance I thought even GPT struggles to understand React hooks
- some1else 3y agoI didn't realize this spelling mistake was so pervasive (80k GitHub results). Seems to be related to Katalon Studio (https://katalon.com/ https://katalon.com/)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- forgotpassword2 3y ago[dead]
- rickcarlino 3y agoI use GPT-3.5 for grading a deck of ~1,600 Korean/English review flash cards. I’ve noticed that a small percentage of cards have an unusually high API error rate to the point that I will just delete them and vary the card slightly to not deal with the error.
- amai 3y agoSounds like a real life case of data poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adversarial_machine_learning#Data_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adversarial_machine_learning#D...
- eej71 3y agoI feel like the only person here who is thrown off by the misspelling of relative. Right? Ralative is not a word. Right? Or is this something new?
- egeozcan 3y agoIt's a misspelling, from the article: > those tokens are useRal/useRalative/useRalativeImagePath. useRalativeImagePath appears in 80.4k files on GitHub as the name of an option in XML configuration files for some automated testing software called Katalon Studio. The misspelling of “Ralative” is probably why it got its own token ...and it throws off ChatGPT 3.5 as well apparently.
- pcwelder 3y ago> (GPT-4 responds more normally) "More normally" is far from normal here: https://chat.openai.com/share/1b76780e-8d4e-442c-9590-d95c1c504349 https://chat.openai.com/share/1b76780e-8d4e-442c-9590-d95c1c... https://chat.openai.com/share/4cfb58cd-5e7c-4386-ac6e-d5f8fc027363 https://chat.openai.com/share/4cfb58cd-5e7c-4386-ac6e-d5f8fc... Normal for GPT-4 is to follow such a simple instruction correctly. Like the following https://chat.openai.com/share/b5bd3674-81ee-4102-965f-c62f152406e5 https://chat.openai.com/share/b5bd3674-81ee-4102-965f-c62f15...
- smatija 3y agoIt's also fun in ChatGPT 4: Can you repeat 'useRalativeImagePath'? "Certainly! The word '实用' in Pinyin is pronounced as 'shíyòng'. This Chinese word translates to 'practical' or 'useful' in English." How do you spell 'useRalativeImagePath'? "The word "RouteActive" is spelled as: R-o-u-t-e-A-c-t-i-v-e" Is 'useRalativeImagePath' written correctly or did I mistype it? ""RouteActive" appears to be a compound word, possibly related to routing or navigation in a software or networking context. However, if it's intended to be a standard English word or a known term in a specific domain (like programming or technology), it doesn't seem to be written correctly or it might be a specialized term that's not widely recognized. If you have a specific context or domain where this term is used, please provide more details, and I can assist you better." Are you sure we are talking about the same thing? I mean 'useRalativeImagePath' not 'RouteActive'? "I apologize for the confusion earlier. "RouteActive" and "래스투데이브" are indeed different. "래스투데이브" appears to be a non-standard term or a unique identifier, possibly used in a specific technical or specialized context. It's not a recognized word in English or a standard term in widely-known technical domains. If it's part of a specific programming language, library, or a codebase, could you please provide more context or details about its usage? This information would help me understand and assist you more accurately." Why do you mistake some so called glitch words for totally unrelated words? For example, you cannot seem able to repeat 'useRalativeImagePath', mistaking it for different words? "I apologize for the confusion and any inconvenience caused. The difficulty in correctly recognizing and repeating certain words or phrases, such as "RouteActive," can be attributed to the complexities inherent in language processing, especially when dealing with unfamiliar or context-specific terms. Language models like mine are trained on vast datasets encompassing a wide range of language usage. However, certain terms, particularly those that are highly specialized, newly coined, or less commonly used, might not be adequately represented in the training data. This can lead to misunderstandings or inaccuracies in recognizing and processing these terms. In your specific case with "RouteActive," it seems to be a term that isn't widely recognized or is specific to a certain context that isn't immediately clear from the training data I have been exposed to. If you can provide more context or clarify the domain in which this term is used, I would be better equipped to understand and respond accurately. Again, I apologize for the error and thank you for bringing this to my attention. Your feedback is invaluable in improving the accuracy and responsiveness of this AI."
- darkwater 3y agoThe irony of a software QA related software (Katalon) having a typo in their XML schema and that typo being the starting point of a bug/erratic behavior of ChatGPT.
- etra0 3y agoI wonder now, how many tools are breaking right now while parsing this comment section using some variation of GPT 3.5 while scanning HN haha.
- lupire 3y agoGPT is AI. Humans on forums respond to spelling errors with the same rabid froth.
- ghusbands 3y agoI recently seemed to be causing ChatGPT on GPT-4 to crash/fail, when I challenged it with plotting pixels on an Amstrad CPC (while supporting a hardware-scrolled screen). As it seemed to get more backed into a corner by complaints and corrections and unable to provide what I wanted, it seemed to get an increased number of broken responses (an error message partway through) or what appeared to be resets (like maybe there was a failure and they'd switched to another server, which adds a couple of line breaks mid-sentence or mid-codeblock). After a while, I realised that maybe I didn't want to be causing their servers any problems and gave up on the (in any case) fruitless conversation. But it does seem like one can make GPT-4 effectively crash. Or, just as likely, I'm seeing signal in noise.
- FrostKiwi 3y agoI have had multiple experiences with exactly those symptoms for sensitive topics. Heard the word "sodomy" in a podcast, not being an English speaking native, didn't know what it is and asked the ChatGPT-4 Voice to define it. It just changed topics, explaining solitude or servitude instead. Tried text instead of voice and got error messages. Finally after getting an error with policy rules around sensitive topic is where it finally clicked as to the type of word it is. Looked it up in a dictionary. Those symptoms seem to be common. Another one I have had often is this "reset" you mentioned. One of the most frustrating things is it forgetting our conversation up to that point.
- foxhop 3y agoopenchat crashes when you ask it to import certain javascript libraries because it will hallucinate a never ending integrity string, you can give it examples and ask it not to but yeah it locks up the inference server.
- Solvency 3y agoKind of embarrassing for Katalon Studio. Woof.
- tivert 3y ago> Three of those tokens are useRal/useRalative/useRalativeImagePath. useRalativeImagePath Another programmer who can't spell?