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Tesla Employees Using Vehicle Cameras to Spy on 'Private Scenes;' Owners Suing (2023)
- jruohonen 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ijhuygft776 3y agoWe need guides on how to unplug any cars from the network.
- edgyquant 3y agoBetween this and the horror stories coming out of the Midwest[1] it is not a good week for Tesla 1. https://www.npr.org/2024/01/16/1224913698/teslas-chicago-charging-extreme-cold https://www.npr.org/2024/01/16/1224913698/teslas-chicago-cha...
- ijhuygft776 3y agoIm glad I rented a Tesla (as opposed to buy one)... I even rented it on accident because they were out of small gas sedans.
- andsoitis 3y agoFrom your linked article: > The challenges Tesla owners are facing aren't specific to the carmaker. One should wonder why the title (and story) is not about EVs generally? I will offer a very cynical answer: NPR and The Guardian (which is misrepresenting the scope and cause - see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39065628 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39065628) have an axe to grind, but need to walk a fine line as to come across as being anti-EV.
- tw04 3y ago>One should wonder why the title (and story) is not about EVs generally? Because you're taking it out of context? The story is about Tesla owners having issues getting their cars charged and long supercharger lines which both occurred. There were no reports of long-lines at CCS chargers that I heard of on any of the EV forums I participate in. The "not specific to the carmaker" was in regard to Lithium batteries (generically) struggling in super-cold weather. Furthermore, you completely disregard the fact there's an entire section about how other Tesla owners weren't having issues charging in the cold. Between the two I guess the question is do you have an axe to grind with NPR or are you just upset there's negative (deserved) press about Tesla supercharging struggling in sub-zero temps? Some of it is their fault, some of it is an education thing, but Tesla also does a pretty horrible job of educating owners on charging etiquette.
- andsoitis 3y ago> Between the two I guess the question is do you have an axe to grind with NPR or are you just upset there's negative (deserved) press about Tesla supercharging struggling in sub-zero temps? The story seems blown out of proportion. News outlets get to choose what they report on, which itself is part of sentiment making. There are way more interesting and important issues to report on, and I wish that NPR, which is one of my main news sources, would do a better job. So yes, as a customer of NPR I am voicing my dissatisfaction.
- tw04 3y ago>The story seems blown out of proportion. Not really? You had large numbers of people literally having to get their cars towed. If I lived in Chicago and needed to charge my car, I'd absolutely want this reported on. Anytime there has been a gas shortage and long lines (like when Florida faces a hurricane) it is quite newsworthy. Both for the people that live in the area (so they can make other accommodations) and nationally so they know they should probably stay clear of the area. Are you running around complaining about that reporting as well? >There are way more interesting and important issues to report on, and I wish that NPR, which is one of my main news sources, would do a better job. Like what? You're acting as if there's some major breaking story they ignored to report on this. Can you point to anything beyond a vague "there's other things they could report on and this isn't interesting to me personally"? You haven't actually stated why this isn't newsworthy beyond you don't feel it is. What about "hey don't go to a supercharger if you live in Chicago and it's super cold" isn't important or newsworthy to Tesla owners/renters/drivers?
- b112 3y agoWow. 0F is just normal temps for many areas, for 3+ months. It's not really that cold. Many Canadians just start to wear gloves at that temp.
- kramerger 3y agoNewspapers in Sweden are having a field day with Tesla after last week's heavy snow. Seems like all the horror stories about people being stranded in 20F with a dead car and no heating come from Tesla owners. I'm happy nobody has died yet, but from what we saw it's just a matter of time before whole families are found dead
- sokoloff 3y agoIm no particular Tesla fan, but I do suspect that if 3 ICE cars were stranded with no heat and 1 Tesla was, you’d hear about the Tesla story. In some way, this is actually useful as people need to know the differences and possible new risks with an EV. On the other hand, it’s still biased.
- b112 3y agoIt's not biased to report "car brand X becomes useless because of temps, unlike all other cars" That is indeed a story, and should caution those in certain environments not to buy that brand. It also shows a lack of testing, to sell cars into a market, where they won't work reliably for part of the year. And a completely different tact, a car breaking down is expected. An entire production model being flawed, and defective, is not. This is not even slightly biased.
- kramerger 3y agoThere have been multiple stories about EVs getting stuck in snow then running out of battery and being towed. But the particular cases where the car itself has broken down seem to be limited to Teslas. Even in the heavily moderated Tesla Club Sweden forum people have started questioning the reliability of these cars in the winter.
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- rootusrootus 3y agoIt sounds like they need to redesign the holder for the end of the cable so it doesn't fall out into the snow. Frankly, it's been obvious for years, at any temperature the holder for the cable is a little finicky. Finding the cable on the ground is somewhat common.
- huijzer 3y agoI really wonder whether we at some point are gonna get physical switches to disable camera’s and microphones. My iPhone camera is also pointing at me while I type this and the microphone can record the room. Also interesting: people keep raving about the Chinese EVs, but what about those camera’s and microphones? There was a big scandal about the Chinese spy satellite but I hear nobody about Chinese cars with cameras.
- Teever 3y agoIf we do it will because of EU mandates, it won't be because of anything North America regulators or companies choose to do.
- rootusrootus 3y agoThe EU continuing to demonstrate that the path to hell is paved with good intentions.
- ikekkdcjkfke 3y agoI just wonder if it also has eye-tracking on the front cameraes for maximum data collection. I wish someone would do a deep dive into what data is being collected and sent from an iPhone
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- o11c 3y agoA fair number of laptops have a camera slide cover at least.
- rsynnott 3y agoWhy are these things uploading videos at all? And, particularly, why are they uploading videos _when not in use_?! And, if they must upload videos, why are employees able to access them without good reason? This whole thing just seems like a tower of terrible choices.
- wodenokoto 3y agoSo that vehicle owners can see who the hit and runner is. And just in general look how their car is, all from the comfort of their phone in real time.
- Hardwired8976 3y agoThat makes sense but why should employees have easy access to it?
- adt2bt 3y agoYeah there should definitely be a better governance structure preventing employee access without a structural justification like a law enforcement request, customer service request, etc. As an owner of a model Y, I’m beyond pissed off they’re so lackadaisical with this stuff, to the point where I may just buy a different car.
- radicalbyte 3y agoIt should be encrypted and the owner of the vehicle should be in control of the keys.
- thfuran 3y agoThat works right up until the user loses the key and demand access anyways. Or they sell the car and keep a copy of the key.
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- andsoitis 3y ago(edited) NPR also wrote this about Tesla batteries: https://www.npr.org/2024/01/16/1224913698/teslas-chicago-charging-extreme-cold https://www.npr.org/2024/01/16/1224913698/teslas-chicago-cha... From that article: > The challenges Tesla owners are facing aren't specific to the carmaker. I ask myself why is the title not about EVs generally? I will offer a very cynical answer: NPR and The Guardian (which is misrepresenting the scope and cause - see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39065628 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39065628) have an axe to grind, but need to walk a fine line as to come across as being anti-EV. I want to see my news sources be more even handed and objective. Call out the privacy issues like this article, but refrain from "going after" an organization or person in order to create sentiment.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Twistyfiasco 3y agoDo they really have an axe to grind - or does Tesla paint a huge target on their back?
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoMan who constantly begs the world to look at him, attention seeker with no qualms about endorsing anti-semetic conspiracy theories in public, is actually the victim of a global conspiracy to give him the attention he wants, when he truly seeks privacy, and to not be talked about, his fans say.
- andsoitis 3y ago> Do they really have an axe to grind - or does Tesla paint a huge target on their back? I would argue both. The art then for an observer is to sort through the sentiment making to calibrate more towards reality and know what is noise and what is not. In my ideal world we have more news sources that can and attempt to do that more effectively.
- cowpig 3y agoWhere did you get this quote from? It's not in the article
- flemhans 3y agoTesla should shut down and cease to exist.
- nixgeek 3y ago“For example, when a Tesla hit a child riding a bike, a video of the child flying through the air went viral among employees. They shared it in private one-on-one chats “like wildfire,” according to another ex-employee.” This is disgusting and if it’s true and especially if Tesla management was aware of these issues and failed to take action, we can but hope a judge and jury will see fit to award the class an enormous sum.
- dazc 3y ago'According to another ex-employee' should be enough of a red flag to answer your question.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y agoWhat makes you say that? I feel like ex employees are less likely to conceal something like this than employees. A greater red flag for me would be a denial from someone whose $100,000+ payout from Tesla depended on the denial. I'd prefer a 3rd party investigation, and I'm guessing the ex employee would, too, and that Tesla would oppose and obstruct.
- chollida1 3y ago> 'According to another ex-employee' should be enough of a red flag to answer your question. Do you mean that people are only willing to talk about this once they've quit the company and don't have to worry about losing their jobs to talk about this kind of ongoing behaviour?
- FredPret 3y agoThis is reason enough to never own a Tesla. I wanted to buy the new Cybertruck when it finally launches, but when this first came out, it became impossible for me to ever buy one. EDIT: I'm fully on board with the idea of electrifying cars and it wouldn't be a thing at all without Tesla. That they can alienate a potential super fan like me with stupid own-goals like this is super sad.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- philipov 3y agoGood thing, too. Have you seen the video of how the cybertruck lacks basic safety to avoid chopping off your finger when closing the hood? Other automatic doors will detect if an object is in the way, but the cybertruck will keep closing, and it has sharp unpadded edges.
- ultimoo 3y agoI have been injured on more than occasion by sharp edges and heavy doors on the Model Y.
- cevn 3y agoI thought only my Model Y had sharp edges. The 3 seems fine.
- kbos87 3y agoI've seen that video. Are you honestly going to tell me that there aren't similar pinch points on nearly every other vehicle on the road?
- John23832 3y agoThe point the poster was making was that there are sensors at similar pinch points on other cars to avoid the hazard.
- gurumeditations 3y agoYour car is watching you, soon enough your AR glasses will be eye tracking you all day long to learn everything about you. Everything. Privacy laws? Ha… not in America. Besides, governments don’t care about laws when they want to spy on you. We will willingly become enslaved to companies and authorities in return for technological convenience masqueraded as “progress”.
- mikpanko 3y agoCurious: what was Tesla’s initial justification for recording from cameras while the car is parked and charging?
- swozey 3y agoI have two cameras in my jeep that are recording at all times. One front and back. It just overwrites its recordings after a time period. Gives me something to report if it's broken into, hit, etc. I'd like an inside camera as well but haven't felt like adding it. Also the Tesla uses Cameras instead of Lidar which is mentioned in the article, so they already had a million cameras they could give a driver access to. Jeep having access to my cameras though? Super weird. Jeep can do literally nothing to assist me in any situation that I would have a recording of something happening. But that's possibly much different with Teslas camera system where it's used for self-driving etc.
- andrepd 3y agoYes! But you are recording on your own device and nobody else can do anything about it.
- alistairSH 3y agoNo idea if this was Tesla’s justification, but it can be useful for hit-and-run while parked. Though Tesla probably did it because they could and Elon said so.
- ceejayoz 3y ago"Sentry mode". If someone keys your car, you get several high-resolution camera recordings of the crime.
- throwaway3478 3y agoAnd several of your own crime.
- usrusr 3y agoThe root reason is that Tesla is made by and for people who assume that they will never ever be at the receiving end of a power imbalance. (edit: to them) More surveillance equals more opportunity to use power, not risk of ending up on the other side. The mindset operates on not identifying with former winners, as in the idea that luck might change e.g. through an unfortunate health development is completely ignored.
- bombcar 3y agoDon’t worry, other car manufacturers are clear to delineate this in their privacy policy. https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-car-brand-reviewed-by-mozilla-including-ford-volkswagen-and-toyota-flunks-privacy-test/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/blog/privacy-nightmare-on-...
- meandmycode 3y agoWow, I was outraged just at the thread already, but this is just shocking..
- bombcar 3y agoI really feel that “unexpectedly using an electronic device to view sexual activity and dissemination thereof without explicit written permission per act” should be somehow actually illegal, but nobody cares.
- dylan604 3y agoSo what happens if it's teenagers under the age of 18? Are they now in possession of CP?
- charles_f 3y agoComment thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37404413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37404413
- BurningFrog 3y agoThe era of us always being recorded on video is already here. Act accordingly.
- dylan604 3y agoHere's my contract that says I am owed 20% of all company profits that use my likeness. By continuing to use my likeness, you agree to these terms.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- popohauer 3y agoI guess basic human decency and respecting the privacy of your customers is too much to expect from Tesla. Elon will make for a fascinating case study for business schools someday, building a spectacular brand and burning it all down.
- booleandilemma 3y agoWhy do people have to be so creepy?
- pizzafeelsright 3y agoUse a feather and you're a romantic. Use a chicken and suddenly you're a deviant.
- Tempest1981 3y agoDiscussion from April, 501 comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35468855 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35468855
- pvg 3y agoThis submission is also from April 2023, it's just a reheated ragepost dupe.
- koolba 3y agoHow are the employees sifting through millions of hours of video to find the ones with naked people?
- dsgnr 3y ago[dead]
- ProllyInfamous 3y agoAI, muh'dude. That and lots of bored apes.
- kramerger 3y agoWhy do you think Amazon published an AI model for detecting nudity? :) Joke aside, probably the same way Roomba employees posted pictures of people in the bathroom or Apple partner leaking recording of people having sex: horny employees + zero oversight from mgmt.
- linsomniac 3y agoThat right there is the question that should be included in the investigation.
- koolba 3y agoGiven the sheer volume of video, that was my first thought. There has to be some classification system that is flagging these videos for human review. How else would you find the naked riders in the haystack?
- Bluestrike2 3y agoI could see Tesla flagging videos containing nudity to exclude them from their normal analyses/processes, but if you don't restrict access or just delete the videos outright, all you've done is make it easier to find the videos in question.
- dylan604 3y agoHave you not ever been bored at your job, and then realized you spent way too much time on something you started doing while bored? Now, imagine that but finding explicit videos.
- steelframe 3y agoA lot of people around me roll their eyes at the things I do to actively avoid surveillance. If I walk into a relative's house and they have a fscking camera pointed at me, which believe it or not is usually the case, I will complain about it, turn around, and walk back out of the house. If they have a device under the control of a third party that has a microphone on it, I will shut down any conversation that I wouldn't want said third party listening to. This is beyond what I do with my own personal devices. I know this must make me seem rude or anti-social in many cases, but I really don't know how to get the message across about what's happened along with its very real impact. Not long ago the partner of a relative of mine decided to get drunk when the relative was visiting me. Because they were drunk they weren't answering their phone, my relative got themself all worked up about it. They called the alarm company and talked to what sounded like some 19 year old kid who said, "I see a naked person walking around in the living room on your video feed." Somehow my relative was actually okay with this. It didn't occur to them that maybe they probably didn't want random kids staring at them naked in their own living rooms, which is exactly what was happening at that very moment. I gave an ultimatum that I would never visit their house again so long as they had those cameras installed. Only then did my relative remove them. I couldn't believe that they actually seemed okay with the fact that this kid was looking at their naked partner in their own living room. Now I guess I have to have a new rule: Do not get in vehicles that spy on you. The trouble at this point is that it may become more and more difficult to tell for sure which vehicles do that and which don't. There is an increasingly lengthening list of reasons why I would never want to be in a Tesla specifically, so that's an easy one to avoid, but many other car manufacturers at the very least track your location all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them also uploaded video and audio feeds from surveillance devices integrated in the vehicle, right along with your location telemetry.
- latentcall 3y agoThe trick to the car dilemma is to buy an older vehicle without any cameras or network connectivity. I have a 98 Subaru and an 04 Chevy Truck and I can guarantee you they do not have the capacity to spy on me or anyone else.
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- nyxtom 3y agoWelp, guess I’ll be buying something else from now on. Elon isn’t the kind of person to fix such a cultural issue
- klyrs 3y agoThis is when the boss tells you to step away from your desk... so he can steal your chair and order you to make popcorn.
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- iJohnDoe 3y agoWill never park next to a Tesla. After reading the original leak in April and knowing about the Reddit group where Tesla owners post videos of anyone/anything online. If you value your privacy, never go near a Tesla. On the other hand, cant even imagine why people driving one and being recorded the whole time by the internal camera.
- rootusrootus 3y ago> If you value your privacy, never go near a Tesla. Oh how I would love if this became a common sentiment. It's hard to get door dings from careless morons if they refuse to park next to my car. > recorded the whole time by the internal camera Covered that ages ago, it records nothing.
- kjkjadksj 3y agoClearly it records something given the article
- rootusrootus 3y agoRight, it records the inside of the cover I put over it. Apologies if that wasn't clear enough.
- porphyra 3y agoI admire the sentiment but surveillance cameras are everywhere. It's not just Teslas.
- i8comments 3y agoThey should be nowhere.
- porphyra 3y agoHow do we catch the criminals, or prove liability during a crash, then?
- oxqbldpxo 3y agoTesla stock is an avalanche in waiting. Passive index fund investment, tax credits and stimulus put this con company on top. Little by little the cracks reveal its true nature beyond all the BS promises. RUN while you still can. "*This is not financial advice."
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- kramerger 3y agoLooks like China has known about this for years: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/23/business/tesla-barred-china-suspicions-intl-hnk/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/23/business/tesla-barred-chi...
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- blinkingled 3y agoWhat a whopper of a combo of incompetence and malfeasance! Any sanely competent s/w dev team would have totally easily come up with a scheme to encrypt the videos and upload them to vehicle / owner authenticated areas of some cloud bucket somewhere with audit logging and the employees could have had their activities monitored and audited - looks like it is no one's interest at Tesla to give a crap about their customers.
- kragen 3y agoincompetence has nothing to do with it; it's about power. tesla's posture with respect to the users of its cars is that tesla controls what the software running on the cars does; the users do not have the right to study, modify, copy, or redistribute the software. unsurprisingly this incentive structure means that tesla has no incentive to protect the users' data from tesla employees' abuses, since the users can't study the software to detect it and wouldn't be able to modify the software to stop it in any case or redistribute their modification to other users if there is software running on a computer in your house or your car, it is absolutely essential for that software to be answerable to you in these ways, not to the manufacturer of some product. currently that perspective is far outside the overton window, so we can expect to see increasingly egregious abuses like this for decades
- charles_f 3y agoIt does a bit though, restriction and auditing to production data, and preventing exfiltration are hard, imperfect, but still quite standard for large companies like Tesla. Leaving a door open, as the article relates, is incompetence.
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- 127361 3y agoI wonder if law enforcement have access to the camera footage? This makes it every car a mobile CCTV on wheels? How difficult would it be for Tesla to implement ANPR and upload every number plate spotted together with GPS coordinates, to a central server? The chances of them doing it are very low, but it's still interesting to consider such possibilities. Maybe 20 years from now they could implement facial recognition? That would be an absolute nightmare scenario. If every car has that many cameras, essentially privacy is finished, it's worse than Orwell's 1984 book.
- flutas 3y ago> How difficult would it be for Tesla to implement ANPR and upload every number plate spotted together with GPS coordinates, to a central server? Realistically, probably not hard at all. Car already has "enough" (debatable) processing power to run FSD on it, and afaik ANPR would be a much lighter load than that. Built in cell connectivity that you can't kill without some hardware work is another aspect.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- edgyquant 3y agoWe already live in the nightmare scenario Teslas are simply a marginal gain
- seydor 3y agowhat was the name of that law, Murphy's law?
- WhackyIdeas 3y ago[flagged]
- mjburgess 3y agoI think that rhetorical strategy 'has been nerfed'. No one really has the idea that a private life is equivalent to a law-breaking life any more. Too much bad press on gov surveillance; and indeed, corp surveillance.
- WhackyIdeas 3y agoWhat country do you live in? Here in the UK, you couldn’t be further from the truth unfortunately. There are a tonne of shocking things going on right now with regards to surveillance reforms which gets zero coverage on the news.
- tasty_freeze 3y agoOne of my favorite stories is when then Google CEO Eric Schmidt dismissed peoples' worry about the information Google was collecting by saying, "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place." He said this despite complaining about a news site that published information about how much Schmidt makes, his political donations, approximately where he lives, and various other details about his personal life ... all gathered via google searches.
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- LightBug1 3y agoYet again, my dumb 2005 Toyota and 69 Bug prove the value of 'old is gold'. Don't get me wrong, of course I love technology ... but to see it being used like this is dispairing.
- andrepd 3y agoIt's really a damn shame that for the past ~10-15 years we can't have evolution in technology (in this case, better engines, fuel economy, etc) without an evolution in enshittification (unwieldy touchscreens for interfaces which go at 3FPS, remote software updates that break your car, cameras with absolutely no real purpose whatsoever other than apparently spying you have sex in the back seat, etc)
- 542458 3y agoI don’t see why HN acts like you need to buy a 15 year old vehicle to avoid internal cameras. My 2020 Elantra has no internal cameras, and even if it did it doesn’t have a cellular connection - but it does have superior fuel economy and safety to most pre-2000 vehicles. Even on newer Hyundais, while cell connections are ubiquitous on everything except the most base-model vehicles, I don’t believe internal cameras are common (the driver attention system uses steering wheel cues, unlike the Tesla one).
- whamlastxmas 3y agoIf you have the sport package then your 2020 definitely has cell connection and your location is being tracked with it even if you don’t subscribe to blue link
- 542458 3y agoNope, I have one of the (several) lesser models to that.
- gunapologist99 3y agoI realize that this isn't your key point, but it's worth pointing out that pre-2000 was not 15 years ago. My impression is that cars started turning into mobile surveillance posts / attack vectors around 2008, but it varied among brands and certainly was slower among commercial vehicles, as well as certain brands like GM (with OnStar) and Lexus/Toyota (with their licensed version of OnStar) that began including these features in the mid-90's.
- charles_f 3y agoThis is beyond illegal per GDPR. Are they doing the same thing in the EU?
- loeg 3y ago> Some of the images shared in Tesla employee chat rooms included full nudity. Others depicted car crashes and road rage, which, it might be argued, were necessary for the “enhancement of Tesla vehicle driving systems.” But even some crash videos were abused. > For example, when a Tesla hit a child riding a bike, a video of the child flying through the air went viral among employees. They shared it in private one-on-one chats “like wildfire,” according to another ex-employee. Yeah, yikes.
- whamlastxmas 3y agoIf it’s private chats how does the source know it spread like wildfire?
- kjkjadksj 3y ago“According to another ex employee”
- satshiti 3y ago[flagged]
- whamlastxmas 3y agoRight but how does that employee know? Do they have access to private chats and can run stats on it?
- satshiti 3y ago[flagged]
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- satshiti 3y ago[flagged]
- sgustard 3y agoLater update: > A Tesla owner who accused the electric vehicle maker of improperly accessing and sharing video recorded from his car must pursue his privacy claims in an individual arbitration rather than a proposed class action lawsuit, a judge in California has ruled. https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/us-judge-says-tesla-privacy-case-belongs-arbitration-not-court-2023-10-13/ https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/us-judge-says-tesla...
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 3y agoThe original source for the reuters story: https://ia802608.us.archive.org/14/items/gov.uscourts.cand.410887/gov.uscourts.cand.410887.52.0.pdf https://ia802608.us.archive.org/14/items/gov.uscourts.cand.4...
- nla 3y agoWhy is there no compliance officer at Tesla making sure those employees are doing their jobs, instead of spying on customers?
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- sidibe 3y agoWhy waste money, time, and opportunities self-regulating when you can just leave it to the courts and agencies which move too slowly to keep up?
- exitzer0 3y ago[flagged]
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- Lui2 3y ago[flagged]
- FergusArgyll 3y agoWe need a GNUCar
- HeOwnsTwitter 3y agoJust noting that Elon Musk now owns Twitter, rebranded as X. You can expect the same degree of indecency with your data there. Grimes and (now defunct) circles? Creepy.
- edgyquant 3y agoDo you believe Twitter respected data before? This is just Tesla bringing to automobiles what social media companies started.
- HeOwnsTwitter 3y agoNo, they are still fronts for three letter agencies. Different variety of creepiness. The overarching concern is that Musk’s national security portfolio is too broad, which presents a unique risk without precedent.
- edgyquant 3y agoHave you forgotten about tic tok?
- Lui22 3y ago[flagged]
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 3y ago"A California man is suing the company-on behalf of all Tesla owners-over this practice." After this was published Tesla successfullly forced the plaintiffs into arbitration. https://ia802608.us.archive.org/14/items/gov.uscourts.cand.410887/gov.uscourts.cand.410887.52.0.pdf https://ia802608.us.archive.org/14/items/gov.uscourts.cand.4...